Can a LLC purchase a time share? [merged]

[SMHarman]

Let me save the "end-justifies-the-means" crowd some time:

-All resort HOA's should accept all deed backs, no matter what the consequences are to the stability of the resort.

-If this puts the resort into financial difficulties - who cares.

-I got out of my deed(s) and that's all that matters to me.

Yes, that was sarcasm…..

Seems reasonable. They should then sign up to a GDS to rent that space.

 

[Mike&Edie]

We sold our timeshare to a woman in Florida that wanted it in her business name. Our resort refused to process the transfer. That drove me nuts. It was my car, free and clear, you can't tell me who I can or can't sell it to. And if you do, what is your legal basis for denying? I went round and round with the resort and the numbers were so small it would have be silly to go to court. But my emotions were so strong that I seriously considered per se...pro per...representing myself. As I interacted with their attorney, he was hanging his hat on the basis that the resort articles of incorporation and the sales contract were completely silent on the matter. Silence in the paperwork is not a sound basis to deny a property right! The buyer tired of the length of time and asked that we just put it in her name. I was relieved and disappointed. I understand the whole viking ship thing, it was not the case in my transaction. At one point the resort offered to take the deed back if I gave them $1,500. I was more outraged, they were trying to out Viking the Vikings. This is the bitter pill of the timeshare industry. I think Ron has done the best job of thinking it through.

 

[TUGBrian]

you can certainly thank the entities and individuals who do indeed setup LLCs for the sole purpose of abandoning timeshares for the more frequent crackdowns on HOA's denying transfers of ownerships!

I dont expect it to change anytime soon either...in fact id expect it to be far more common than not.

 

[raygo123]

You are comparing apples and oranges:

A foreclosure, and abandoning a deed with a Viking Ship LLC are very different things, with different procedures, and different costs and consequences.

If an owner cannot pay their maintenance fee, foreclosure is a legal option.

It is not the same as abandoning a deed with a Viking Ship LLC.

If forclosure was legal, there would be no consequence under the law. It is not criminal. It is a civil matter.
I'm not arguing or condoning vicking ships. I'm interested in preservation of interests. If I can market my holdings with FULL benifits, I will do it. The intent is not avoidance, rather enhancement of my timeshare.

How much more would your holdings be worth if you could pass along developer benifits?

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[DeniseM]

How much more would your holdings be worth if you could pass along developer benifits?

That would be great - but that is not reality. The developers have no interest in allows perks to be passed along on the resale market. The fact that you can only get certain perks by buying from the developer is a huge sales point for them. I see no reason for that to change.

If you are saying that LLC's are a way of getting around this - I expect HOA's to get far stricter about this as time goes forward - not more lenient.

 

[theo]

If forclosure was legal, there would be no consequence under the law. It is not criminal. It is a civil matter.
I'm not arguing or condoning vicking ships. I'm interested in preservation of interests. If I can market my holdings with FULL benifits, I will do it. The intent is not avoidance, rather enhancement of my timeshare.

How much more would your holdings be worth if you could pass along developer benifits?

"Developer benefits" exist at all only within a very few "chain" systems (such as Wyndham's "VIP", to cite one specific example).
At non-chain independent facilities, where the original developer is long gone, so are any former temporary "benefits" (if indeed any ever existed in the first place).

I'm not a "chain" owner, but to be perfectly honest I'm just not at all grasping your intended point in the context of this particular LLC discussion.

 

[DeniseM]

Ray is a Wyndham owner, and that is his focus.

However, most of the hotel affiliated systems do have developer benefits that exist as long as the first owner owns the deed.

 

[theo]

inadvertent duplicate of post #31 voluntarily deleted

 

[glmyers]

Not true - the estate is only responsible for the current maintenance fees due - not for all eternity.

Once the current obligations are paid, the estate can be distributed.

A estate can also be charged for foreseeable future expenses if the claim is made in a timely fashion. If the estate does not make an arrangement for the distribution of the timeshare, claims can continue to be made against the estate for future expenses. Heirs can be asked to return distributions to cover such claims if necessary. Timeshares generally do not file claims for ongoing obligations, but that does not mean they can't.

Nobody can collect if no claim was made and they were properly notified, but a valid claim for ongoing obligations must be resolved. (At least that is what the attorney told us is true in the state of Nevada when dealing with an ongoing obligation.)

 

[DeniseM]

A estate can also be charged for foreseeable future expenses if the claim is made in a timely fashion. If the estate does not make an arrangement for the distribution of the timeshare, claims can continue to be made against the estate for future expenses. Heirs can be asked to return distributions to cover such claims if necessary. Timeshares generally do not file claims for ongoing obligations, but that does not mean they can't.

Nobody can collect if no claim was made and they were properly notified, but a valid claim for ongoing obligations must be resolved. (At least that is what the attorney told us is true in the state of Nevada when dealing with an ongoing obligation.)

It's not true - only the current obligations must be paid - not for all eternity.

Thank about it - logically, how could they hold up the estate for 30 years or so of maintenance fees?

 

[ronparise]

Let me save the "end-justifies-the-means" crowd some time:

-All resort HOA's should accept all deed backs, no matter what the consequences are to the stability of the resort.

-If this puts the resort into financial difficulties - who cares.

-I got out of my deed(s) and that's all that matters to me.

Yes, that was sarcasm…..

Until I got to the last line I thought you were finally making some sense

I dont think a resort's HOA should be forced to take back one of their deeds except by common sense and their responsibility to all of the owners,

If faced with a default it seems to me that good management demands that they foreclose, ie, take the thing back. and certainly if I tell them Im going to deed my interval to a viking ship unless they willingly take it back why would they choose the Viking Ship??

 

[bjones9942]

I recently purchased a week via my LLC at my resort in Mazatlan, and not with the intention of dumping it by the road later. They didn't bat an eye transferring it to my LLC, probably in part because they're RTU and the contract is up in 2022.

 

[Talent312]

... a valid claim for ongoing obligations must be resolved. At least that is what the attorney told us is true in the state of Nevada when dealing with an ongoing obligation.

In Florida (and I daresay, most) states, probate laws provide that, when an estate is opened, it can start the clock running on debts owed by telling a creditor that they have 'x' days (like 90) in which to file a claim or be thereafter barred.

A claim for future, as yet unapproved assessments, fees and taxes would be characterized as speculative, unsupported or contingent, and as such, would likely be rejected by a probate court. But then, Nevada could be an outlier.

.

 

[raygo123]

Just thinking how easy it would be to dump it if need be.

Thanks

Sooo, yes a LLC can buy a timeshare. BUT, make sure the timeshare, HOA, chain point programs, etc. accept
It as a legal deed.

Yes easy to dump. Depending were and what you buy.

You should continue to rent. If you're not try it first. Piece of mind goes a long way, and no paperwork, lawyers, etc.

Your no in, yet your looking for a way out!

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[Kapolei]

We sold our timeshare to a woman in Florida that wanted it in her business name. Our resort refused to process the transfer. That drove me nuts. It was my car, free and clear, you can't tell me who I can or can't sell it to. And if you do, what is your legal basis for denying? I went round and round with the resort and the numbers were so small it would have be silly to go to court. But my emotions were so strong that I seriously considered per se...pro per...representing myself. As I interacted with their attorney, he was hanging his hat on the basis that the resort articles of incorporation and the sales contract were completely silent on the matter. Silence in the paperwork is not a sound basis to deny a property right! The buyer tired of the length of time and asked that we just put it in her name. I was relieved and disappointed. I understand the whole viking ship thing, it was not the case in my transaction. At one point the resort offered to take the deed back if I gave them $1,500. I was more outraged, they were trying to out Viking the Vikings. This is the bitter pill of the timeshare industry. I think Ron has done the best job of thinking it through.

I don't have a timeshare now. There are definitely some I am interested in. But I just can't seem to pull the trigger and subject myself to liability until death.

 

[bjones9942]

I don't have a timeshare now. There are definitely some I am interested in. But I just can't seem to pull the trigger and subject myself to liability until death.

There are other options. You can buy a RTU (right to use) week. Most units in Mexico are RTU, and the contracts have an expiration date. The Pueblo Bonito group, while not my first choice, does have some nice resorts and decent maintenance fees. Trading power of a unit in Mexico will probably be less than other locations, but if you want something with a fixed end point other than your death, this might be an acceptable solution

 

[ronparise]

I don't have a timeshare now. There are definitely some I am interested in. But I just can't seem to pull the trigger and subject myself to liability until death.

I subscribe to the greater fool theory. If you were foolish enough to buy it, chances are there is someone just as foolish to buy it from you

But why not buy something for which there is an active secondary market. Worldmark, Wyndham, and Marriott are three that come to mind. Perhaps not all their deeds but certainly some of the platinum Marriotts and the low mf Wyndham UDIs like national harbor and Canterbury and club Wyndham access and of course Worldmark

 

[Kapolei]

There are other options. You can buy a RTU (right to use) week. Most units in Mexico are RTU, and the contracts have an expiration date. The Pueblo Bonito group, while not my first choice, does have some nice resorts and decent maintenance fees. Trading power of a unit in Mexico will probably be less than other locations, but if you want something with a fixed end point other than your death, this might be an acceptable solution

I don't need trading power. Just lowest maintenance fees and any access to II weeks so I can score last minute bookings in my hometown

I will research RTU units that create Interval access. thanks

 

[Kapolei]

I subscribe to the greater fool theory. If you were foolish enough to buy it, chances are there is someone just as foolish to buy it from you

But why not buy something for which there is an active secondary market. Worldmark, Wyndham, and Marriott are three that come to mind. Perhaps not all their deeds but certainly some of the platinum Marriotts and the low mf Wyndham UDIs like national harbor and Canterbury and club Wyndham access and of course Worldmark

Primary goal is access to last minute II inventory for local use. I see this being done for $250 maint fee. I am only reluctant because I am worried the party may end.

 

[ronparise]

Primary goal is access to last minute II inventory for local use. I see this being done for $250 maint fee. I am only reluctant because I am worried the party may end.

Buy the quality week, open up an II account then sell the week, Dont tell II I think as long as you pay your II annual fee they will keep the account open

 

[Kapolei]

Buy the quality week, open up an II account then sell the week, Dont tell II I think as long as you pay your II annual fee they will keep the account open

I got the account. I am looking for the cheapest, lowest risk, resort for last minute trades.

 

[CO skier]

I got the account. I am looking for the cheapest, lowest risk, resort for last minute trades.

I sent you a PM on how to gain access to Interval International for about the $250/year MF, and without having to bother with a LLC.

If you already have an II account and are only looking for last minute trades, why not just pay cash for last minute Getaways and save the exchange fee?

 

[Pathways]

Let me save the "end-justifies-the-means" crowd some time:

-All resort HOA's should accept all deed backs, no matter what the consequences are to the stability of the resort.

-If this puts the resort into financial difficulties - who cares.

-I got out of my deed(s) and that's all that matters to me.

Yes, that was sarcasm…..

Until I got to the last line I thought you were finally making some sense

I dont think a resort's HOA should be forced to take back one of their deeds except by common sense and their responsibility to all of the owners,

If faced with a default it seems to me that good management demands that they foreclose, ie, take the thing back. and certainly if I tell them Im going to deed my interval to a viking ship unless they willingly take it back why would they choose the Viking Ship??

I also thought it made good sense until the last line, except for the 'who cares' and 'no matter'.

I don't think any of us just don't care. However, an HOA has a responsibility to run a resort to the benefit of all owners. With the exception of a temporary downturn in the economy such as we just went through, if a resort continues to have such a negative value that an owner can't even give away their interest, then there are underlying issues with the entity which will probably never turnaround.

No one has a better look as to the future of a resort than the HOA board. By not accepting a deed-back, they are acknowledging that there is not only no current value, but no future value. Either the resort is rundown, in an undesirable location, is too large, mismanaged, or time has simply passed it by. The HOA at that point should be working for an exit plan not for just a owner or two, but all owners.

 

[Pathways]

Along with Ron, I am a big advocate of LLC ownership. I have deeds from four major systems, all titled in multiple llc's. In my state they are cheap to form and operate with no additional tax expense.

I plan to use them to seamlessly transfer ownership to my children at virtually no cost. As Ron suggested, those with developer benefits (two of them in my case), the benefits will transfer since the only change is the change of the managing partner with the Sec of State.

There is a charge in one system to change the partner name attached to each deed, but that charge is minimal compared to the cost of changing a deed.

While I have no plans to use the llc as an exit plan to an unwanted TS, I do realize that is an option. (Would any of us have purchased a week if we thought some day we would have to pay someone to take it from us? Or worse yet, not even find a taker by paying them?)

 

[bjones9942]

If you already have an II account and are only looking for last minute trades, why not just pay cash for last minute Getaways and save the exchange fee?

Trading Places also has a 'hot deals' page where you can get very good deals 'last minute' without having to deposit any inventory.

http://www.tradingplaces.com/rentals/hot-deals-weekly-stays