Buying another timeshare....thoughts?

[taterhed]

Howdy all....

Thought I'd get a group opinion.

We do Hawaii every year--two weeks for now, until retirement--and decided to shift our ownership. We're going to sell Waiohai and buy a different timeshare. We're considering our alternatives and trying to be open-minded. In a few years, retirement. Then, we will maximize our time in Hawaii and leverage all our lock-offs etc... to stay a month or two (or more?). I'm not a fan of older "no air-conditioning" <3* units when I travel, so I'm not really into searching for lower-end properties in Hawaii.

We love Waiohai, but would do just as well trading-into the resort every year; we've had good luck with II exchanges and we might, might, get OV or at least decent IV rooms on exchange; versus always IV now.

We love Maui (MM1--need that kitchen) and enjoy exchanging there; again, 50/50 on the view category but willing to accept that given the $$$$$ price and MF's.

We haven't stayed at Ko'Olina yet, but we've seen it and the reviews seem great. Plus, it's a lock-off, it's rentable and affordable (now).

So, here's my current thoughts/options:

• My first impulse is to buy a Ko'Olina 2BR OV and lock-off, use/trade it every year. Given current pricing, seems like a reasonable use/rent/exchange value.
• My heart says 'buy the MM1 OV...' and occupy it every year. But, ouch, those prices to purchase and those MF's! Of course, seems like more of an asset given pricing history, easy to rent and easy to sell. Plus, guaranteed view; although some OV rooms are not a brilliant view.
• My wallet says 'buy another trader....' which isn't a stupid idea. My Grande Vista pulls satellites out of orbit, locks off, could be Florida Club multi-trade capable and has reasonable MF's. It's rentable with the right reservation, but not my gig to rent the trader unless forced to.

Please, no 'don't buy rent...' comments. You can NOT rent the units I'm staying in for the weeks I'm there for MF. Guaranteed. Not reliably, easily or frequently. Also, I'm fully aware of the financial implications, so this isn't a 'debt' scenario or reckless spending etc...

Thanks in advance for your comments...let me know what you think!

Pick 2 on the Poll if you like. Explain in the reply if you care to...

 

[vacationtime1]

You owe it to yourself to stay at Ko Olina before purchasing it. We did not like the high-rise environment or the crowds.

We also own Waiohai (OV), but our favorite Hawaii property is WKORV. If you can financially consider MM1, you can similarly consider WKORV.

We are currently at Waikoloa Ocean Club -- which we like far more than we anticipated. Of course, it is a pure DC points play, but if your Waiohai is enrolled, you could keep your Waiohai unit, elect points, and stay here (or at MM1 or MKO).

I would never trade into Waiohai; too much view risk. Remember that your good luck on room assignments on exchanges resulted in part from the fact that you are an owner.

 

[VacationForever]

You owe it to yourself to stay at Ko Olina before purchasing it. We did not like the high-rise environment or the crowds.

We also own Waiohai (OV), but our favorite Hawaii property is WKORV. If you can financially consider MM1, you can similarly consider WKORV.

We are currently at Waikoloa Ocean Club -- which we like far more than we anticipated. Of course, it is a pure DC points play, but if your Waiohai is enrolled, you could keep your Waiohai unit, elect points, and stay here (or at MM1 or MKO).

I would never trade into Waiohai; too much view risk. Remember that your good luck on room assignments on exchanges resulted in part from the fact that you are an owner.

Huh? What crowd at Ko Olina? It is far more crowded along the entire Kaanapali stretch than any part of Ko Olina. I am on a treadmill now and will put my selection in the poll after I get off.

 

[brianfox]

We own 3W Waiohai and 2W Ko Olina. The units are VERY comparable. If you love Waiohai units, you will love Ko Olina units.
Ko Olina has two balconies; Waiohai has one.
I think Ko Olina has a better master bath. Larger shower.
We've preferred Waiohai kitchen more.
Waiohai has chickens; Ko Olina doesn't.
Ko Olina has separate thermostats. Waiohai not so much.
Ko Olina has better on site food options.
Waiohai beach is infinitely better than Ko Olina's lagoons.
Ko Olina gets jellyfish blooms often in the summer
Ko Olina pools are MUCH better than Waiohai
Surprisingly, Ko Olina MF are $200 higher than Waiohai. Several years ago it was the other way around.

Resale value of Waiohai is pretty much the same as Ko Olina these days, so aside from closing, your costs would be a wash.
Maui has a long way to fall still in a downturn.

Can't offer much as far as trading goes. We rent out our Ko Olinas and are probably going to sell them (young family likes Poipu)
We stay at Waiohai. Had a hell of a time trying to trade into Waiohai, so we decided to buy there.
Seems to me that trading out of HI is a losing proposition since the MF are so high, but you seem to have a plan.
I would stay away from buying a cheap MF Marriott with the intention of trading into HI. That earned us nothing but frustration.

Also, our MV Ko Olina gets us stunning ocean views every time. Better than the "ocean view" units in my opinion. The only mountain we ever see is Diamond Head. All depends on what you reserve. But for the next few years you don't need an OV to get an OV if you know what you are doing.

We have July weeks this year at Ko Olina. We'd be more than happy to rent a week to you if you want to try it out. PM me if interested.

I honestly didn't understand the statement after the "don't buy, rent". I think you are saying that you would have difficulty renting into your destination on consecutive weeks; what makes you think you can trade into it any easier? At least with renting, you get to see what is out there ahead of time. Trading requires you to make a portion of your decision immediately. That in turn makes the remainder of the trip even harder to trade into. But this is why we no longer trade.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I agree with you on renting. It is a hassle and I would rather own and be a landlord than a renter.

We just went through a purchase analysis for Kaanapali OF. If Kaanapali/ Maui is desired, and OF matters it is best to own there vs. trade.

We wanted EOY. We may pick up another EOY at WKORVN or MOC later. We trade HGVC into 2BDRM OF at Hilton Hawaiian Village Waikiki or Big Island Waikoloa for second week or alternate year. Hilton has an efficient MF with a very flexible trading system.

For EOY OF the choices came down to MOC Towers and Westin Kaanapali North. If we wanted annual, we would also add WKORV OF to the mix. EOY are rare and overpriced at WKORV.

MOC traditional does not have kitchen and is not priced much lower relative to the towers.
All units considered are lock-offs.
Both have good rental margins.
Both must be reserved at midnight when the reservation window opens a year earlier to get peak times, however Marriott may require 13 month (see below)

We selected the WKORV North EOY OF over MOC Towers OF EOY for several reasons:

1) Resale price was a few thousand lower. Vistana is busy with Nanea so ROFR is not as aggressive.

2) WKORV and WKORVN are mandatory units meaning that you get Starpoints for trading. (MOC and Nanea do not offer internal trading option for resale.) You can deposit MOC or Nanea in II but that's like trading a BMW for a Chevy.

3) The WKORVN units were more complete for lock-offs - each side has a balcony and a washer/dryer. Nanea does not offer lock-offs.

4) 13 month advanced reservations at MOC required the purchase of another Marriott unit greatly increased our buy-in cost. (this will not be a factor if you already own MVC.)

5) North of Black Rock so beach is quieter, less crowded

cons:
1) WKORV OF views are not as good as MOC OF views (angled vs. straight on.)
2) MOC closer to Whaler restaurants on south side of black rock. More walkable. There is an oceanwalk all along the beach for both properties.


If OF is not mandatory WKORVN Resort views are good views of resort and units can be purchased for about $5k. WKORV resort views can be parking lot views.

Good Luck!

 

[VacationForever]

If I want to go back to Hawaii regularly, I would buy at MKO. We love the Ko Olina area over Kaanapali area as Ko Olina while secluded, offers good restaurant options nearby. Kaanapali is too touristy and crowded for our liking. We like the views from MKO as well as the feel of the resort itself. Maui Ocean Club OV/OF can have breathtaking views as well. While we used to snorkel, we have gotten cowardly in our old age with regards to sharks, poisonous jellyfish and what nots, to us there is no advantage of being in Kaanapali over Ko Olina. The lagoons at MKO allows us to feel safe if we do wish to swim in the sea.

My suggestion is to get an EOY of whichever Hawaii resort that you want to buy. That way you only need to commit to going every other year. I don't rent from private owners and I don't rent out what we own/book either, hence EOY would work out better. Rental business is just never attractive to us and sounds like also not to the OP.

We have gotten alot of awesome trades to Hawaii but I would not count on trading in the long term. Exchanging can become a crapshoot.

 

[VacationForever]

Also don't forget the amazing sunset that you get at MKO... we love to sit at Longboard and watch the sunset while having dinner.

 

[slip]

I’m thinking you really have to choose an island and start there. Staying there a month or two is different than a couple weeks and it will make trading difficult. I would stick with a buy where you want to stay plan. If it’s different than Waiohai then I think I would sell those.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

You might also want to determine your preferred islands and resort areas and go from there:

Marriott: Kauai Poipu + (several); Maui Kaanapali; Oahu not Waikiki; BI Waikoloa

Hilton: Oahu Waikiki Hilton Hawaiian Village; BI Waikoloa (several resorts plus adding Ocean Tower Waikola Hilton OF to portfolio soon)

Vistana: Westin Maui Kaanapali (3); Kauai Princeville (adding Sheraton Poipu in future)

Hyatt: Maui Kaanapali. Others???

 

[dsmrp]

If I want to go back to Hawaii regularly, I would buy at MKO. We love the Ko Olina area over Kaanapali area as Ko Olina while secluded, offers good restaurant options nearby. Kaanapali is too touristy and crowded for our liking. We like the views from MKO as well as the feel of the resort itself. Maui Ocean Club OV/OF can have breathtaking views as well. While we used to snorkel, we have gotten cowardly in our old age with regards to sharks, poisonous jellyfish and what nots, to us there is no advantage of being in Kaanapali over Ko Olina. The lagoons at MKO allows us to feel safe if we do wish to swim in the sea.

My suggestion is to get an EOY of whichever Hawaii resort that you want to buy. That way you only need to commit to going every other year. I don't rent from private owners and I don't rent out what we own/book either, hence EOY would work out better. Rental business is just never attractive to us and sounds like also not to the OP.

We have gotten alot of awesome trades to Hawaii but I would not count on trading in the long term. Exchanging can become a crapshoot.

I’m thinking you really have to choose an island and start there. Staying there a month or two is different than a couple weeks and it will make trading difficult. I would stick with a buy where you want to stay plan. If it’s different than Waiohai then I think I would sell those.

+1
I don't own Marriott, but as an ex-Hawaii resident have a different perspective for people who want to stay for extended periods.
If you want to stay 2, 3 or more months and be an islander, you should be closer to the areas where the locals live and work.
Kaanapali, while very nice and upscale, is entirely a tourist area; not especially representative of island life. And much more expensive to boot than Oahu.
Kihei while touristy too, is more of my idea of a liveable place. (It didn't used to be, years ago was all condo tourism)
Of the Marriott places mentioned, I'd choose Ko'Olina, because it is closer to real towns like Waipahu, Pearl City etc, and there's more to do in Honolulu
if you get bored of the sun (Other people from mainland also got "island fever" cause you can only drive so far...)

I agree with Vacationtime1 to stay at Ko'Olina before you buy. Use your other Marriott trader to trade back to Waiohai or MOC,
or another island than the one at which you choose to spend the majority of your time.

 

[brianfox]

Just a refresh with regard to the OP situation:

• He owns Marriott Waiohai
• He has never stayed at MKO
• He is looking for advice on alternate Marriott properties to own instead of Waiohai (Ko Olina, Maui, or even a non-HI Marriott)
• Money is not necessarily a determining factor
• He hopes to use lockoff/trade power to stay where he wants for a month at a time (but has not told us where that may be - only that it is really hard to rent into those consecutive weeks for < MF)

 

[MOXJO7282]

When I hear someone say they love Maui I automatically think they should just accept the higher entry costs and MFs and go for it if they can afford because I think you'll always long for Maui if you don't. At least that is how I would feel. I also think in the long run it's a better value because of the rental possibilities.

I have a plan to spend hopefully a month or 2 in Maui in retirement and my plan is to use half of my units and rent the other half and this is what i always recommend.

So here is my recommendation. Buy 2 or more view units, preferably OF, that comes at a big premium, but at least OV. Split the units and use 3 intervals for 3 weeks on Maui. Rent the one studio. Even if you get $1500 that is a good offset to MFs and you have 3 weeks to use.

 

[taterhed]

Just a refresh with regard to the OP situation:

• He owns Marriott Waiohai
• He has never stayed at MKO
• He is looking for advice on alternate Marriott properties to own instead of Waiohai (Ko Olina, Maui, or even a non-HI Marriott)
• Money is not necessarily a determining factor
• He hopes to use lockoff/trade power to stay where he wants for a month at a time (but has not told us where that may be - only that it is really hard to rent into those consecutive weeks for < MF)

Thanks everyone who responded so far......

I'll add (as brianfox nicely summarized) that I would consider an eoy/EY at WKORV/N if the $$$ was right.. We'll try and look and review this week.
Keep the comments coming.

The 13 mos MOC booking issue was definitely something I like to conveniently forget...

 

[mauitraveler]

Thanks everyone who responded so far......

I'll add (as brianfox nicely summarized) that I would consider an eoy/EY at WKORV/N if the $$$ was right.. We'll try and look and review this week.
Keep the comments coming.

The 13 mos MOC booking issue was definitely something I like to conveniently forget...

Do you travel mostly during the shoulder season? If yes, it's relatively easy to do an internal exchange into WKORV/N at 8 mos., if you buy one of their other "mandatory" properties to use for trading. The buy-in might be a little more reasonable, and the MFs would definitely be lower than those in Hawaii.

 

[Mauimama]

I have an every other year (even) ocean view WKORV/N that I'd like to be rid of for a very minimal price. I am trying to retire and the maintenance fees are killing us. Not sure how to go about it, though.

 

[taterhed]

Thanks again....here at MM1 enjoying the weather.

Going to look at WKORV and think about it. Seems like I might even consider a Deluxe unit (OV) despite the MF's given the quality.
Researching the maps with unit locations and might take a look today.

Cheers!

 

[PamMo]

We did what you're planning, Taterhed. The year after we retired, we spent a month in Maui in early spring, then went back in late summer for another month split between Maui and Kauai. We felt like we got Hawaii out of our system, and had no desire to go back the following year. (I'm thankful it was easy to rent our Westin and Marriott units.) We're taking the grands to Hawaii next summer, so we're keeping our Hawaii units for now (we also own Hawaii HGVC).

You never know what you'll want to do in retirement, so it's best to stay flexible!

 

[taterhed]

Well.....stopped by and chatted with Syed at Advantage while I was in Maui.

Syed is a great guy and we had a very nice--no pressure or sales push--chat. He answered my questions and thoughts about WKORV/N and some other thoughts as well.

We are rethinking based on the discussions. Appreciate all the inputs from all.

I have to say, the Westin is certainly a viable alternative to MM1 tower units given the difficulties getting reservations during peak periods.....

 

[Mauimama]

We have certainly enjoyed our time at WKORV/N ad are looking forward to one last time this April before we (hopefully) sell.