Buy vs. rent

[T1062a]

Last week, I purchased a Worldmark by Wyndham VIP $17,000 upgrade and then cancelled 3 days later when I looked at the deal in more detail.
I decided that I should take my time, do the research, and consider buying a better quality timeshare on the resale market. I'm leaning towards Marriott.
Here are my questions:
1) Does it make more $sense to buy a fixed/floating week or points?
2) Where can I see Maintenance Fees per point to select the best resort (like Grandview used to be)
3) Is it better to just rent other people's weeks as needed or buy a timeshare?
Would really appreciate some direction from other members
Thanks!

 

[DanCali]

Congrats on Saving $17,000!

Marriott takes some time to learn as it has become a complex system over the years.

Buying pure points is very costly both in upfront cost and with ongoing maintenance fees. To get a decent amount of points that you can do something with (say 4000 points) would require spending over $50K with MVC.

Buying a deeded week can be a much better deal but the flipside is that a deeded week cannot be part of the points program and can only trade in II. To get a deeded week into the points program you'd have to make another purchase from Marriott which is costly. Those who bought deeded weeks pre-2010 got their weeks enrolled into the points system for a small fee.

You may want to also look into Vistana (Westin/Sheraton timeshares, now also part of MVC) - due to legacy reasons, some of those resale weeks (Westin Kierland, Westin Maui, and a couple of others) can trade internally within that specific points system. There is a separate forum within TUG for Vsitana.

As to whether renting or buying is better - it depends when and where you want to go. If you're looking to go to Orlando, buying a timeshare is probably not worth it (with the exception of DVC, if you are interested in staying on WDW property). If you want to go to Newport Coast Villas in the summer, renting a week from an owner will cost you close to $4000 while MFs are $1800. So buying pays for itself pretty quickly (albeit a prospective buyer should know that summer weeks are very hard to book as an owner). Renting at that same resort in the Fall will cost much less though. It really depends on your travel habits...

 

[Pamplemousse]

Last week, I purchased a Worldmark by Wyndham VIP $17,000 upgrade and then cancelled 3 days later when I looked at the deal in more detail.
I decided that I should take my time, do the research, and consider buying a better quality timeshare on the resale market. I'm leaning towards Marriott.
Here are my questions:
1) Does it make more $sense to buy a fixed/floating week or points?
2) Where can I see Maintenance Fees per point to select the best resort (like Grandview used to be)
3) Is it better to just rent other people's weeks as needed or buy a timeshare?
Would really appreciate some direction from other members
Thanks!

A lot of the what makes the most sense depends on you.
Will you travel around to many different places or do you want the same every year?
Will you travel high season or shoulder/off?
Tied to school breaks?
Want to travel full weeks or just days?
Do views matter to you?
Are you looking for a good value or do you want what you want and willing to pay for it?

Nobody “needs“ a timeshare.
Think though why you might want one- will you always want larger than a hotel room and kitchen?
If you look at rental prices on Marriott or redweek do you see a big savings considering purchase price, maintenance fees, exchange fees…

Sorry I gave questions and not answers but there isn’t a black and white yes or no answer.
Our family has enjoined exchanging our week for 15+ weeks and enrolled and added points 7 years ago.
There are pluses and minuses and certainly costs both ways.
I would encourage you to rent a few times and be sure TS is a good fit.

 

[T1062a]

Great responses! Thank you so much.

I'm revisiting timeshares because hotel rates are so exorbitant. We just went up the Kona Coast towards the Waikoloa area. Decent hotels (Marriott, Mauna Kea etc) are all $500+ per night. We often travel with children and grandkids, and spending $1,000 per night for 2 rooms is not an option.

We are retired and want to travel for ~30 days per month.

Looking back at the Worldmark ½ week add-on option we bailed from, it would have cost about $31k over 10 years ($17k upgrade+$1.3k pa maintenance) for a week, or $3.1k per year, ~$400 per day. There must be a better option.

 

[Fasttr]

We are retired and want to travel for ~30 days per month.

Per year or per month? If per month, sell your house.

 

[Jeddy]

T1062a, have a look at Timeshares For Rent in TUG and see if any of them match your upcoming travel requirements. I have found that a sixpack of beer in the hot tub in the evening loosens the tongues of timeshare owners, who become quite happy to talk about the plusses and minuses of their timeshare system. Theirs are the real unvarnished opinions that matter, along with your requirements for the places you want to go and the accommodations you require for family. Happy hunting!

 

[Pamplemousse]

Great responses! Thank you so much.

I'm revisiting timeshares because hotel rates are so exorbitant. We just went up the Kona Coast towards the Waikoloa area. Decent hotels (Marriott, Mauna Kea etc) are all $500+ per night. We often travel with children and grandkids, and spending $1,000 per night for 2 rooms is not an option.

We are retired and want to travel for ~30 days per month.

Looking back at the Worldmark ½ week add-on option we bailed from, it would have cost about $31k over 10 years ($17k upgrade+$1.3k pa maintenance) for a week, or $3.1k per year, ~$400 per day. There must be a better option.

If you buy resale lock off week you can exchange that on II for 2 full weeks- costs would be initial purchase price, yearly maintenance (mine were ~$1700 for a harbor lake gold lock off last year), lock off fee ($80?), II membership ($100/ year), exchange fee (close to $200 each), upsize fee ($99/step to get larger than than the 1br and studio when you lock off)- also options to buy eplus/ insurance. Under $200/night for a 2Br, not including original purchase price and eplus. The benefit to owning MVC/Abound resale is you have priority exchanging into the brand on II.

But you will have to work for it- reserve high TDI weeks and request early, esp in you need school vacation week. Realize with II that you take what you get and you don’t get upset.
Buying one resale week and exchanging might be a work way to travel with the family assuming you pay for them all in they can fit in a 2Br (or possible 3) or only family travel 1 week and use both halves of the lockoff.
Your other option might be VRBO or such when you travel with the family.

 

[bizaro86]

Great responses! Thank you so much.

I'm revisiting timeshares because hotel rates are so exorbitant. We just went up the Kona Coast towards the Waikoloa area. Decent hotels (Marriott, Mauna Kea etc) are all $500+ per night. We often travel with children and grandkids, and spending $1,000 per night for 2 rooms is not an option.

We are retired and want to travel for ~30 days per month.

Looking back at the Worldmark ½ week add-on option we bailed from, it would have cost about $31k over 10 years ($17k upgrade+$1.3k pa maintenance) for a week, or $3.1k per year, ~$400 per day. There must be a better option.

You can add Worldmark resale for somewhere between $0.10-$0.25 per credit.

That's way, way better than buying from the developer.

 

[DeniseM]

1) I moved your thread to the newbies page and I recommend that you take the: "What to buy" survey.

2) Have you looked at our FREE timeshares page? That's where I would start. You should buy something you don't have to finance.

3) Have you visited the TUG Timeshare Reviews page?

 

[geist1223]

You can buy Worldmark Credits on the Secondary/Resell Market at substantial savings. Pay about 14 to 25 cents per Credit. Resell Credits can be used at all 90+ Worldmark Resorts. They have full access to Bonus Time, Monday Madness, Inventory Specials, Wait List, etc. Same Maintenance Fees. Same ability to transfer one time use Credit from or to another Worldmark Member. You are treated the same as someone that buys Credits from Wyndham except you do not have access to Club Pass or Wyndham South Pacific.

Checkout www.wmowners.com/forum. This is a Worldmark Site by WM Owners for WM Owners.

 

[DRH90277]

We only own Marriott weeks and points -

Suggest you buy a great resale high demand resort in the Platinum Season within driving distance of your home to use, rent out, or trade through Interval. Great Platinum Season resorts would include OceanWatch, Newport Coast, and many others. Worst case is you rent these weeks out at about twice the annual maintenance fees. Others can suggest similar resorts if you ask on this website as there is a lot of great experience housed here.

The points system cannot compete with the value proposition provided by resale weeks - think about double the cost for the points system.

Exit plan - should you ever want to exit timeshare; you are advantaged by your ability to sell the resale weeks. I know I can resale our weeks for more than I paid.

 

[e.bram]

Oceanfront fixed high season week is the way to go.
Use or rent and enjoy sipping coffee or wine on the oceanfront terrace.

 

[4TimeAway]

Oceanfront fixed high season week is the way to go.
Use or rent and enjoy sipping coffee or wine on the oceanfront terrace.

The only tradeoff being the purchase price. Some of the nice options do come with a nice price tag.

 

[T1062a]

Per year or per month? If per month, sell your house.

Lol! Good catch. Per year

 

[T1062a]

We only own Marriott weeks and points -

Suggest you buy a great resale high demand resort in the Platinum Season within driving distance of your home to use, rent out, or trade through Interval. Great Platinum Season resorts would include OceanWatch, Newport Coast, and many others. Worst case is you rent these weeks out at about twice the annual maintenance fees. Others can suggest similar resorts if you ask on this website as there is a lot of great experience housed here.

The points system cannot compete with the value proposition provided by resale weeks - think about double the cost for the points system.

Exit plan - should you ever want to exit timeshare; you are advantaged by your ability to sell the resale weeks. I know I can resale our weeks for more than I paid.

Thanks! We live in Northern California so I’ll look at the resorts you suggested

 

[T1062a]

You can buy Worldmark Credits on the Secondary/Resell Market at substantial savings. Pay about 14 to 25 cents per Credit. Resell Credits can be used at all 90+ Worldmark Resorts. They have full access to Bonus Time, Monday Madness, Inventory Specials, Wait List, etc. Same Maintenance Fees. Same ability to transfer one time use Credit from or to another Worldmark Member. You are treated the same as someone that buys Credits from Wyndham except you do not have access to Club Pass or Wyndham South Pacific.

Checkout www.wmowners.com/forum. This is a Worldmark Site by WM Owners for WM Owners.

Thanks, but I’m done w/ Worldmark.

 

[T1062a]

We only own Marriott weeks and points -

Suggest you buy a great resale high demand resort in the Platinum Season within driving distance of your home to use, rent out, or trade through Interval. Great Platinum Season resorts would include OceanWatch, Newport Coast, and many others. Worst case is you rent these weeks out at about twice the annual maintenance fees. Others can suggest similar resorts if you ask on this website as there is a lot of great experience housed here.

The points system cannot compete with the value proposition provided by resale weeks - think about double the cost for the points system.

Exit plan - should you ever want to exit timeshare; you are advantaged by your ability to sell the resale weeks. I know I can resale our weeks for more than I paid.

You wrote “The points system cannot compete with the value proposition provided by resale weeks - think about double the cost for the points system”. Can you elaborate please?

 

[BJRSanDiego]

Great responses! Thank you so much.

I'm revisiting timeshares because hotel rates are so exorbitant. We just went up the Kona Coast towards the Waikoloa area. Decent hotels (Marriott, Mauna Kea etc) are all $500+ per night. We often travel with children and grandkids, and spending $1,000 per night for 2 rooms is not an option.

We are retired and want to travel for ~30 days per month.

Looking back at the Worldmark ½ week add-on option we bailed from, it would have cost about $31k over 10 years ($17k upgrade+$1.3k pa maintenance) for a week, or $3.1k per year, ~$400 per day. There must be a better option.

I got in to resale timeshares 15 years ago. It has been rewarding.

I live in Southern California and do mainly "drive to" vacations (but obviously the Hawaii trades involved flying). Here are some of the places I've gone to (several multiple times):
Marriott Timberlodge (Tahoe)
Hyatt Northstar (Truckee/Tahoe)
Shell Vino Bello (no longer in Interval)
Marriott Palm Desert (All four of them - - Desert Springs I, DSV II, Shadow Ridge Villages and Shadow Ridge Enclaves)
Marriott Canyon Villas (Scottsdale)
Harbortown Point (Ventura)
Worldmark Big Bear Lake
Hyatt Pinon Point (Sedona)
Diamond resorts in Sedona (The Summit and the Ridge on Sedona Golf)
Marriott Maui Ocean Club
Hyatt Highlands Inn
Marriott Ko Olina (Oahu)
Westin Princeville (Kauai)
Westin Desert Willow (Palm Desert)
4 Seasons Troon (Scottsdale, Az)
Marriott Waiohai (Kauai)
Shell Kona Coast 2
Shell Starr Pass (Tucson)
Marriott Newport Coast
(BTW, all but 2 were full 2 BR units)

The financial math? I own multiple Palm Desert Marriotts. I always split them into a 1 BR and efficiency, deposit them into Interval and do an exchange. I put in my requests generally a year or more in advance and request a wide range of locations and dates. 15 years ago my MF on each 2 BR was around $1400-1500. Today it is around $2K. If I deposit an efficiency, I almost always exchange for a 2 BR and pay a double upgrade fee. If I deposit a 1 BR, I pay a single $59 upgrade fee. I consider those upgrades as bargains. I'm a platinum ii member so the upgrade fee is discounted and costs 2 X $59 = $118, plus either a $154 (Marriott to Marriott exchange fee) or $239 (?) if I go out of network. So for $2k + $118 + $59 + $154 +154 = $ 2585 I get 14 nights of vacation or $185 a night. That is about the cost of a tiny Marriott or Sheraton hotel room. If I used Getaways for locations like Palm Desert, I'd probably get 7 nights for around $700.

My exit strategy is to either sell the Marriotts on Redweek, Tug Marketplace or give them away.

 

[elaine]

We just went up the Kona Coast towards the Waikoloa area

I would suggest adding resale HGVC to your possibly purchases, either at a Waikoloa property (much less capital outlay than Marriott) or any other HGVC with low annual fees/points ratio and using HGVC points to trade internally into Hawaii. Waikoloa is a fairly easy internal exchange most times of the year, so if you have any flex, there might not be a reason to own there. There are also HGVCs on the West Coast. With a good value resale HGVC, it's not too difficult (from reading TUG) to exit later. If interested in HGVC, spend some time asking questions on the HGVC BB on TUG. Note--I'd only buy HGVC--and ONLY resale, not to be confused with HGV (HGVC bought Diamond resorts and named some HVC).

 

[T1062a]

Thanks for the suggestion. We spent a day at the Hilton Waikoloa pool last week and were not that impressed with the amenities. Way overpriced, and ready for renewal. On the other hand, the nearby Marriott was far more upscale. Is this a common theme amongst Hilton's? Because, as you say, the HGVC resale cost is appealing

 

[elaine]

I think you’d need to look at reviews and photos of hgvc properties to decide if hgvc is for you. We have been happy with the quality of hgvc. We tend to find it similar to Marriott.

 

[jp10558]

My takeaway as a new timesharer just back from my second week is - if you want a nice apartment away from home and don't massively care about resort amenities, then HGVC and their RCI portal works really well IMO like a Sam's Club membership for vacations. You pay a bit for the HGVC retail and I guess MFs are inversely related to purchase price and availability, but at least for me, the payback time on immediate purchase not taking any other things like time/value of money, inflation etc into account was still over 7 years to go from "high MF" but easily available for resale purchase to "low MF" but harder to find and double the upfront cost. Of course, this is all subject to change.

I generally have liked the deals available as extra vacations on RCI via HGVC, something like $600 for a week in a lot of cases in shoulder seasons (i.e. like my last trip to Smuggs) in a 2BR. I'm usually interested in going places to see the places, so aside from if I can use the kitchen, can sleep in the beds, and if there's a hot tub - I don't care much about the resort itself. I'd say much of RCI is a step below HGVC - but I won't *know* that till April of 2024 when I finally manage to get to an HGVC location.

More generally, people on TUG seem to suggest getting non-affiliated "traders" and JUST use RCI or II. I guess I'm still a little shy about that, figuring a bigger system internally means less chance of totally screwed up management or special assessments etc.

However, it seems like you're really interested in luxury, which means the RCI trades are probably right out, if you found a HGVC lacking. However, I still think buying can make sense, but make sure you do buy into an upscale system or the specific place you want to go. I would bet that the math still probably works out vs multiple hotel rooms if you're comparing upscale hotels to upscale time shares.

The one thing is - from all I've found, timeshares work best if you're thinking I want to go *somewhere*, let's see what's available cheap and go there. And if you can plan 10 months out or so. I.e. the more flexible you are, the easier it would be to rent, do extra vacations, and grab those last minute deals. If you *need* to go place X on date Y, you need to plan ahead and vie for inventory potentially at midnight X months out (Usually around 10, but varies by system), or you need to own that place and date in a fixed week sort of thing, or looking for rentals and hotels is going to be best, but cost more.

I however really don't want to go back to hotels unless I have to (usually in cities) now that I've stayed 2 times in a mid level timeshare.Because not only can those hotels cost $600 a night per room, but you often can't bring home leftovers due to tiny fridge or no fridge, and often no microwave - forget about cooking in the suite, which if you're going out for every meal is A LOT post covid.

 

[Twohsieh]

I got in to resale timeshares 15 years ago. It has been rewarding.

I live in Southern California and do mainly "drive to" vacations (but obviously the Hawaii trades involved flying). Here are some of the places I've gone to (several multiple times):
Marriott Timberlodge (Tahoe)
Hyatt Northstar (Truckee/Tahoe)
Shell Vino Bello (no longer in Interval)
Marriott Palm Desert (All four of them - - Desert Springs I, DSV II, Shadow Ridge Villages and Shadow Ridge Enclaves)
Marriott Canyon Villas (Scottsdale)
Harbortown Point (Ventura)
Worldmark Big Bear Lake
Hyatt Pinon Point (Sedona)
Diamond resorts in Sedona (The Summit and the Ridge on Sedona Golf)
Marriott Maui Ocean Club
Hyatt Highlands Inn
Marriott Ko Olina (Oahu)
Westin Princeville (Kauai)
Westin Desert Willow (Palm Desert)
4 Seasons Troon (Scottsdale, Az)
Marriott Waiohai (Kauai)
Shell Kona Coast 2
Shell Starr Pass (Tucson)
Marriott Newport Coast
(BTW, all but 2 were full 2 BR units)

The financial math? I own multiple Palm Desert Marriotts. I always split them into a 1 BR and efficiency, deposit them into Interval and do an exchange. I put in my requests generally a year or more in advance and request a wide range of locations and dates. 15 years ago my MF on each 2 BR was around $1400-1500. Today it is around $2K. If I deposit an efficiency, I almost always exchange for a 2 BR and pay a double upgrade fee. If I deposit a 1 BR, I pay a single $59 upgrade fee. I consider those upgrades as bargains. I'm a platinum ii member so the upgrade fee is discounted and costs 2 X $59 = $118, plus either a $154 (Marriott to Marriott exchange fee) or $239 (?) if I go out of network. So for $2k + $118 + $59 + $154 +154 = $ 2585 I get 14 nights of vacation or $185 a night. That is about the cost of a tiny Marriott or Sheraton hotel room. If I used Getaways for locations like Palm Desert, I'd probably get 7 nights for around $700.

My exit strategy is to either sell the Marriotts on Redweek, Tug Marketplace or give them away.

How successful are your requests when depositing your timeshare week(s) into II? Do you have to settle with choosing any resort to use your deposit?
I'm thinking of buying a resale fixed week at NCV Marriot but I'm worried about not finding an alternative MVC resort to book in II when we don't want to stay at this home resort.

 

[davidvel]

How successful are your requests when depositing your timeshare week(s) into II? Do you have to settle with choosing any resort to use your deposit?
I'm thinking of buying a resale fixed week at NCV Marriot but I'm worried about not finding an alternative MVC resort to book in II when we don't want to stay at this home resort.

Note that NCV doesn't lock off so you can only trade for one week. This significantly reduces the value proposition.

 

[BJRSanDiego]

How successful are your requests when depositing your timeshare week(s) into II? Do you have to settle with choosing any resort to use your deposit?
I'm thinking of buying a resale fixed week at NCV Marriot but I'm worried about not finding an alternative MVC resort to book in II when we don't want to stay at this home resort.

First, let me compare owning NCV versus exchanging in. Every year for the last ten plus years I have deposited a 1 BR Desert Springs (Palm Desert) and exchanged into a 2 BR at NCV in September. I love September but it is a bit of a challenge (although I've done it 10 years in a row). October seems much easier to get and I've routinely seen inventory sitting.

I'm actually kind of fussy on my exchanges. I never put a resort on my request that is mediocre or of lesser quality than what I deposited. But I always put in a fairly wide range of dates (not constrained by a school schedule) and typically do a shotgun approach. Both greatly increase my chances for a successful exchange. For instance, I may put Hyatt Pinon Point, Newport Coast, Marriott Northstar (Tahoe), Hyatt Northstar (Tahoe), Hyatt Carmel, Marriott Canyon Villas (Phoenix) all in the same request or split them among two requests. My theory: all are great properties and I'd be happy going to any of them. Also, when I exchange into Hawaii I also shotgun and request any Marriott, Sheraton, Hyatt, and some of the Westins over a couple of month interval.

I also frequently check for possible manual exchanges.

I often use my home resort efficiency units to trade back in to Marriott Palm Desert but into a bigger unit.

For me, I've had good success. But I invest the effort to reserve the highest TDI that I can and may request a somewhat lower TDI value. I quickly put in my shotgun requests, am realistic in choosing my vacation dates, plus manually check for something that may have shown up.

Newport Coast is a great property and I suspect is a good for trading (assuming you've deposited a fairly high TDI platinum unit). But the units don't split so you'd be depositing a 2 BR. Me? I bought 2 BR lock offs that I split. My mistake is I probably should have bought Red/Platinum season units. My White/gold units trade okay but, I think that it would be easier with a stronger season.

If you are planning on using NCV more than half the time, it might be a good purchase for you. I think that it trades very well. If you are buying it for trading, there are better choices out there.