Attended a presentation by Timeshare Exit Company Encore Law

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Yes indeed, because there is no way to simply "get someone out of their timeshare". Thus, the lawyer cannot take any legal means to "get the person out". No one has said or implied that is bad advice, or frankly any advice at all. It just is what it is. What you seem to be missing here is that there are folks who claim that they can "get you out of your timeshare" indeed, that was the subject matter of the post. Timeshare exit companies are scammers. They cannot do anything to "get you out", just like a legitimate lawyer can't do anything to get you "out"

Ok, well it doesn’t sound like we disagree here then.

My point for folks who do not grasp the legal process is that when you own deeded real property the only way you "get out" is by conveyance of a properly prepared, properly notarized, properly accepted, and properly recorded deed. That is a voluntary move by the owner. That is it.

I mean, I guess we’re saying the same thing differently, because your next sentence after this is to recognize that foreclosure is how you get out of your timeshare. You don’t need to voluntarily prepare or do anything if you can’t find someone to transfer your property interest to. You can force the HOA to foreclose by stopping payments. For many people who post on this forum, that is absolutely good legal advice.

 

[LeslieDet]

I mean, I guess we’re saying the same thing differently, because your next sentence after this is to recognize that foreclosure is how you get out of your timeshare. You don’t need to voluntarily prepare or do anything if you can’t find someone to transfer your property interest to. You can force the HOA to foreclose by stopping payments. For many people who post on this forum, that is absolutely good legal advice.

You cannot give that advice in a vacuum. And, as we have previously discussed, when an owner takes that approach, especially one who can afford the MFs, they are causing damages to their fellow owners by burdening them with the unpaid MFs, legal costs and foreclosure expenses. I have always promoted paying your own bills and not being a burden to your fellow timeshare owners.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

And, as we have previously discussed, when an owner takes that approach, especially one who can afford the MFs, they are causing damages to their fellow owners by burdening them with the unpaid MFs, legal costs and foreclosure expenses. I have always promoted paying your own bills and not being a burden to your fellow timeshare owners.

And I’m going to have to again disagree that owners of worthless weeks (which are likely mud or shoulder season weeks) have some sort of ethical obligation to keep subsidizing the timeshare vacations of the other owners who own the more worthwhile weeks by paying ever increasing dues in perpetuity. HOA’s should all figure out a way to take these weeks back and spread the costs around, and if an HOA refuses to do this, or if they can’t because then the whole resort is no longer manageable, then that resort deserves to fail. Every timeshare HOA that sticks to the model of trying to force the owners of the worthless weeks to subsidize them in perpetuity is doomed to fail eventually. I fully support the various proposed laws/rules/regulations out there that would force HOA’s and developers to offer deedbacks for fully paid off timeshares (such as that recent law passed in Canada).

 

[dioxide45]

You cannot give that advice in a vacuum. And, as we have previously discussed, when an owner takes that approach, especially one who can afford the MFs, they are causing damages to their fellow owners by burdening them with the unpaid MFs, legal costs and foreclosure expenses. I have always promoted paying your own bills and not being a burden to your fellow timeshare owners.

Isn't that letting personal feelings getting in the way of providing sound legal advice? That would be like telling someone to never file bankruptcy.

 

[Tamaradarann]

That is great. Are the rules like HGVC. You have to have paid off the loan if you had one to buy the unit and be up to date on your maintenance? So to be clear the BIG 3 Timeshare/hotel named timeshare companies are doing deedbacks. HGVC, Marriott, Wyndham. Are there any others? This is really important information for those here at TUG as well as all Timeshare owners that want or need to get out of paying their maintenance.

Others have posted that the only way to get out of timeshares is to sell or give away your timeshare to another person. Lately that has been difficult for certain timeshares units. Still others have stated that if you no longer use and want your timeshare you can just stop paying your maintenance. Of course that, in addtion to possibly hurting ones credit also burdens other timeshare owners of that property by having their maintenance go up to cover the costs of running the resort due to the delinquent owner.

Going the Deedback or Certified Exit Route is certianly preferable for those that can't see or give their timeshare away and want to stop paying their maintenance.

You cannot give that advice in a vacuum. And, as we have previously discussed, when an owner takes that approach, especially one who can afford the MFs, they are causing damages to their fellow owners by burdening them with the unpaid MFs, legal costs and foreclosure expenses. I have always promoted paying your own bills and not being a burden to your fellow timeshare owners.

Precisely, that is why I have stated on different threads that the developer/management companies like HGVC, Marriott, and Wyndham are Deeding Back timehsare units to avoid unpaid burdening their loyal owners with the unpaid MF's, legal costs and foreclosure expenses. They in turn will sell the Deeded Back timeshare and make a profit since it costs them nothing to get the timeshare back. The Timeshare Resorts that are not doing that are not stepping up and helping their loyal maintenance paying owners.

Now perhpas the HOA's of some timeshare resorts don't want to or feel thay can sucessfully market the timeshare that they get back. Well they need to make a choice to either take the step to do it or they better start thinking about liquidating the resort because eventually if more and more units stop paying their maintenance as the Baby Boomers get older and the maintenance gets higher there may be a steep hill down to the end.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Independent resorts, older HOA-controlled resorts without active sales, are very burdened by non-paying owners. I am on the board of one of those, and some owners have probably died, but the bills go out every year, no payments forthcoming. Our management company does rent the weeks who are 2-3 in arrears, if they can, but they are a small entity.

It's a big problem because we all read Timesharing Today magazine and know that people generally feel that resorts should let people off the hook. We do offer a deal to pay two years ahead and give it back. There is not much of a process to do it, as this is not deeded. It's RTU. Don't even know who legally owns the buildings. Yeah, that's weird.

 

[LeslieDet]

Isn't that letting personal feelings getting in the way of providing sound legal advice? That would be like telling someone to never file bankruptcy.

You cannot apply that type of advice in a vacuum. That is my point. It isn't like telling someone to never file bankruptcy for goodness sake. It is more akin to telling someone to properly dispose of their trash and not leave it for others to clean up.

 

[Tamaradarann]

Independent resorts, older HOA-controlled resorts without active sales, are very burdened by non-paying owners. I am on the board of one of those, and some owners have probably died, but the bills go out every year, no payments forthcoming. Our management company does rent the weeks who are 2-3 in arrears, if they can, but they are a small entity.

It's a big problem because we all read Timesharing Today magazine and know that people generally feel that resorts should let people off the hook. We do offer a deal to pay two years ahead and give it back. There is not much of a process to do it, as this is not deeded. It's RTU. Don't even know who legally owns the buildings. Yeah, that's weird.

While paying 2 years maintenance ahead to give it back is a stiff price, it is better than paying a timeshare exit company many thousands of dollars.

 

[Tamaradarann]

You cannot apply that type of advice in a vacuum. That is my point. It isn't like telling someone to never file bankruptcy for goodness sake. It is more akin to telling someone to properly dispose of their trash and not leave it for others to clean up.

I can agree with your thinking here about disposing ones trash. However, if you try to sell the timeshare or give the timeshare away and there are no takers and there is no Deedback Program I would relate that to having no garbage cans in the area to dispose of ones trash and you need to get on a bus to go home.

 

[ScoopKona]

I would relate that to having no garbage cans in the area to dispose of ones trash and you need to get on a bus to go home.

You bring the trash home with you and dispose of it properly?

 

[LeslieDet]

I can agree with your thinking here about disposing ones trash. However, if you try to sell the timeshare or give the timeshare away and there are no takers and there is no Deedback Program I would relate that to having no garbage cans in the area to dispose of ones trash and you need to get on a bus to go home.

I am not familiar with any timeshares that do not have some sort of deed back program. It seems from various comments that there may well be some out there. I simply do not know of any personally. In that scenario, it would be a horrible situation to be the last person standing. I would assume that if there are such timeshares, then they will start defaulting on the payment of property taxes and maintenance such that the entire property will become subject to a tax lien foreclosure or a nuisance closure by the appropriate state or county agencies. In those scenarios, I can understand no one wanting to go down with the ship so to speak.

 

[dioxide45]

I am not familiar with any timeshares that do not have some sort of deed back program. It seems from various comments that there may well be some out there. I simply do not know of any personally. In that scenario, it would be a horrible situation to be the last person standing. I would assume that if there are such timeshares, then they will start defaulting on the payment of property taxes and maintenance such that the entire property will become subject to a tax lien foreclosure or a nuisance closure by the appropriate state or county agencies. In those scenarios, I can understand no one wanting to go down with the ship so to speak.

There are timeshares out there beyond the big names like Hilton, Marriott, Sheraton and Westin. Lots of small independant timeshare properties where there is no developer, just an HOA and perhaps a hired resort management company. They may or may not have a small onsite resale operation. Still, for these properties there is rarely value to the deeds and no one wants them. In some cases the HOAs don't even bother with foreclosure. They just stick their head in the sand. Really no different than taking them back if they have no rental value either. Foreclosure is expensive and it all comes to a cost of the HOA.

 

[TUGBrian]

exploria and welk immediately come to mind as major systems that have no real surrender program. diamond also excludes all resale buyers from their surrender program.

bluegreen and westgate are very specific about what they will and wont take back and I couldnt begin to make a list of the hundreds of independent resorts that likely just take things on a case by case basis.

however the harsh reality is that despite it being a bad choice, default is still the best choice for many owners who find themselves with no other exit options.

 

[Tamaradarann]

You bring the trash home with you and dispose of it properly?

If you have a car like you do, you can dump it in the trunk. If you don't have a car and the bus will not let you on carrying a bunch of trash what do you do? You need to walk in other's shoes before you give advice.

However, the issue is a worthless timeshare not an actual trash situation. So bringing the trash home is continuing to pay the maintenance even though you don't use or want the timeshare. OK, that is one vote for doing that.

 

[ScoopKona]

If you have a car like you do, you can dump it in the trunk. If you don't have a car and the bus will not let you on carrying a bunch of trash what do you do?

The bus will let me on with a neat-looking bag. It's not like I'm going to walk on the bus yelling, "I gots me some hazardous waste up in here!"

I'm not throwing my rubbish in a ditch just because it's more convenient. That's what losers do.

 

[dioxide45]

The bus will let me on with a neat-looking bag. It's not like I'm going to walk on the bus yelling, "I gots me some hazardous waste up in here!"

I'm not throwing my rubbish in a ditch just because it's more convenient. That's what losers do.

WTF, it was an analogy. Do you not understand that?

 

[LannyPC]

While paying 2 years maintenance ahead to give it back is a stiff price, it is better than paying a timeshare exit company many thousands of dollars.

Bingo! That's one thing that I like to emphasize to newbies who come on here asking, "Has anybody heard of [such and such] timeshare exit company?" Even if the resort or its HOA asks for a year or two of MFs plus closing costs, it still works out cheaper than paying these questionable exit companies.

 

[LannyPC]

...however the harsh reality is that despite it being a bad choice, default is still the best choice for many owners who find themselves with no other exit options.

Yes, that's what I like to advise owners who are at a loss. Only default if you have exhausted all other options such as 1) trying to sell it, 2) trying to give it away, or 3) asking the resort to take it back. If none of those work, then default.

 

[Tamaradarann]

Yes, that's what I like to advise owners who are at a loss. Only default if you have exhausted all other options such as 1) trying to sell it, 2) trying to give it away, or 3) asking the resort to take it back. If none of those work, then default.

TUG is doing an excellent job of identifying exit possibilities rather than the expensive and questionable exit companies. I know they probably don't want to but perhaps the resorts need to be more transparent in identifying the exit possibilies that they offer so that timeshare owners stop making the exit companies profitable.

 

[pedro47]

To the OP, I feel you have received some great information from your posted thread. IMO.

 

[chapjim]

TUG is doing an excellent job of identifying exit possibilities rather than the expensive and questionable exit companies. I know they probably don't want to but perhaps the resorts need to be more transparent in identifying the exit possibilies that they offer so that timeshare owners stop making the exit companies profitable.

Instead, the timeshare companies are suing the exit companies to put them out of business (or force them to change their business model) so that timeshare owners stop making the exit companies profitable. The more successful the exit companies, the greater the cost to the timeshare companies.

 

[LeslieDet]

Instead, the timeshare companies are suing the exit companies to put them out of business (or force them to change their business model) so that timeshare owners stop making the exit companies profitable. The more successful the exit companies, the greater the cost to the timeshare companies.

Can you name one legitimate "exit company"? I've yet to hear of any legitimate "exit" companies, because no one can simply get you an exit without the owner of that timeshare actually selling the ownership or successfully deeding it back. The exit companies are being sued because they are scammers who mislead owners into believing that there is some magic formula that they have which will, with the wave of a magic wand, suddenly cause the deed to evaporate. That just isn't how it works in real property ownership.

And, I'm not talking about someone who is a real estate broker who legitimately sells/brokers deals to sell deeded ownership. Those folks aren't "exit companies" they are real property brokers or real estate professionals.

 

[LannyPC]

The exit companies...mislead owners into believing that there is some magic formula that they have which will, with the wave of a magic wand, suddenly cause the deed to evaporate. That just isn't how it works in real property ownership.

Yeah, it's unfortunate that when owners are looking to get rid of their TS, they enter into a search engine terms like "timeshare cancellation services" or "timeshare exit services" and these questionable and scam companies come to the top of the search results.

 

[chapjim]

Can you name one legitimate "exit company"? I've yet to hear of any legitimate "exit" companies, because no one can simply get you an exit without the owner of that timeshare actually selling the ownership or successfully deeding it back. The exit companies are being sued because they are scammers who mislead owners into believing that there is some magic formula that they have which will, with the wave of a magic wand, suddenly cause the deed to evaporate. That just isn't how it works in real property ownership.

And, I'm not talking about someone who is a real estate broker who legitimately sells/brokers deals to sell deeded ownership. Those folks aren't "exit companies" they are real property brokers or real estate professionals.

Really? What about foreclosure? That is considered to be a successful exit and requires the owner to do nothing. Literally nothing.

Did I say something about legitimacy?

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Really? What about foreclosure? That is considered to be a successful exit and requires the owner to do nothing. Literally nothing.

Did I say something about legitimacy?

The timeshare exit industry would collapse if people would just realize that timeshare foreclosure isn’t the end of the world, and often isn’t even that big of a deal in the grand scheme of their life.