Attended a presentation by Timeshare Exit Company Encore Law

[dioxide45]

Really? What about foreclosure? That is considered to be a successful exit and requires the owner to do nothing. Literally nothing.

Did I say something about legitimacy?

Leslie answered that in post #127.

 

[davidvel]

Really? What about foreclosure? That is considered to be a successful exit and requires the owner to do nothing. Literally nothing.

Did I say something about legitimacy?

You didn't say anything about legitimate exit companies of course. But she invented that straw man as she could easily knock it down. Of course, you are correct that foreclosure is an "exit" from ownership, as the foreclosed upon no longer owns or has any obligation for the timeshare (possibly loans if they existed.) She is wrong to claim that one cannot "exit without the owner of that timeshare actually selling the ownership or successfully deeding it back." The exercise of foreclosure does neither of those things but results in an exit (albeit with other unwanted potentialconsequences.)

 

[davidvel]

Leslie answered that in post #127.

Not really. She still excludes foreclosure from her definition of exit (see post #147 and my post above.) In post #127 she simply gives her opinion why someone should not stop paying to obtain foreclosure, not that it doesn't result in an exit.

 

[gravityrules]

TUG is doing an excellent job of identifying exit possibilities rather than the expensive and questionable exit companies. I know they probably don't want to but perhaps the resorts need to be more transparent in identifying the exit possibilies that they offer so that timeshare owners stop making the exit companies profitable.

Your use of the word 'questionable' makes it sound like you are not completely convinced 100% of the 'timeshare exit companies' are scams. The legality of their scam may be 'questionable' but that's a discussion for the lawyers.

I'm not sure why this thread has persisted so long.

 

[Tamaradarann]

Your use of the word 'questionable' makes it sound like you are not completely convinced 100% of the 'timeshare exit companies' are scams. The legality of their scam may be 'questionable' but that's a discussion for the lawyers.

I'm not sure why this thread has persisted so long.

To inform others of exit options. I learned somethings on this thread and I have Deeded Back 3 of my timeshares. I have 4 others that I am keeping at this time, but may need to Deedback in the future and info on this thread may help me.

 

[Tamaradarann]

Your use of the word 'questionable' makes it sound like you are not completely convinced 100% of the 'timeshare exit companies' are scams. The legality of their scam may be 'questionable' but that's a discussion for the lawyers.

I'm not sure why this thread has persisted so long.

When I started this thread on February 23, 2024 I had heard about HGVC Deedback but I didn't know if it was actually worked. In the Encore Law Presentation the represntative that talked with us said that the Deedback would not work. He was lying like people in these presentations for getting out of Timeshares do. I now know that it works and 3 of my deeds have been Deeded Back.

However, as this thread went on and on I, as well as others, now know that Marriott and Wyndham have Deedback Programs as well as HGVC. We also know that if selling, giving away, and Deeding Back does not work as a last resort stop paying ones maintenance will evetually result in a Foreclosure and a Timeshare Exit. That is important information for me since I have a Vacation Village Resort and they currently they do not have a Deedback Program. We also learned that some Timeshare Resorts will let you prepay a couple of years mainteance to Deedback your Timeshare.

Perhaps this thread or a similar one needs to stay active so we TUG Members can continue to report on Timeshare Resorts providing methods to exit without having to stop paying your maintenance.

Finally, this thread warns owners of the Timeshare Exit Companies and offers alternatives.

 

[TUGBrian]

last resort stop paying ones maintenance will evetually result in a Foreclosure and a Timeshare Exit.

actually id bet this happens far less frequently than youd imagine as foreclosure is time consuming and expensive for a resort!

more often than not after a certain default threshold is reached the resort or developer will try to make contact with an owner to have them negotiate a surrender/deedback in lieu of going through the foreclosure process. It is this "success" that is exploited by exit company schemes as they take credit for providing no added value to this process as the same result would have come to pass had the owner simply stopped paying on their own.

 

[LeslieDet]

Really? What about foreclosure? That is considered to be a successful exit and requires the owner to do nothing. Literally nothing.

Did I say something about legitimacy?

LOL - foreclosure isn't an "exit company". What folks can't seem to grasp is that I'm addressing the pitch made by the exit companies that they can "get you out" of a timeshare. No, they cannot get you out. The only way an owner can get out (on their own, without court intervention, without the HOA pursuing legal remedies against the owner), is to sell or otherwise transfer their ownership.

Of course foreclosure will end the ownership. But that requires something more than simply the owner conveying a deed. It requires the owner be delinquent in payment of the HOA dues. It requires a legal proceeding against the owner. There are judicial and non-judicial foreclosures. Those don't happen on their own, and an exit company isn't going to commence a foreclosure. That is commenced by the HOA. Heck, bankruptcy can also work to end the ownership, but to do it with a bankruptcy, that requires court involvement and the owner to file bankruptcy, and then disclaim the asset in the bankruptcy proceeding. Bankruptcy is a public process. The debtor must disclose all assets and liabilities. There are different types of bankruptcy. Each one costs money. The process is not free. The process requires the bankruptcy court approve all actions taken. Bankruptcy is not something that folks should do without a clear understanding of what it entails and the impact on their credit.

Given how folks are so determined to create a fiction that relates to ways to "get out" of a timeshare, I'm surprised no one has said, "well, Leslie did not say death." LOL. Thanks for the laugh.

 

[LeslieDet]

When I started this thread on February 23, 2024 I had heard about HGVC Deedback but I didn't know if it was actually worked. In the Encore Law Presentation the represntative that talked with us said that the Deedback would not work. He was lying like people in these presentations for getting out of Timeshares do. I now know that it works and 3 of my deeds have been Deeded Back.

Kudos to you for not falling for the scammer's lies. And, congrats for successfully deeding back the unwanted timeshares. Good job.

 

[davidvel]

LOL - foreclosure isn't an "exit company". What folks can't seem to grasp is that I'm addressing the pitch made by the exit companies that they can "get you out" of a timeshare. No, they cannot get you out. The only way an owner can get out (on their own, without court intervention, without the HOA pursuing legal remedies against the owner), is to sell or otherwise transfer their ownership.

He wasn't responding specifically to exit companies, but to your bolded sentence below. He correctly noted that one can help you get out of your timeshare by telling you not to make any more payments, eventually leading to foreclosure. In fact this happens with almost all exit companies.

The fact that you could have done it yourself--but hadn't-- doesn't mean the exit companies advice didn't lead to you getting out. The person didn't do it on their own, they paid a huge sum, and the company "got them an exit." Of course they are getting one out with their plan/advice. Your claim that one cannot "exit without the owner of that timeshare actually selling the ownership or successfully deeding it back" is still incorrect, no matter how you spin it and what caveats you attach to it.

Can you name one legitimate "exit company"? I've yet to hear of any legitimate "exit" companies, because no one can simply get you an exit without the owner of that timeshare actually selling the ownership or successfully deeding it back. The exit companies are being sued because they are scammers who mislead owners into believing that there is some magic formula that they have which will, with the wave of a magic wand, suddenly cause the deed to evaporate. That just isn't how it works in real property ownership.

And, I'm not talking about someone who is a real estate broker who legitimately sells/brokers deals to sell deeded ownership. Those folks aren't "exit companies" they are real property brokers or real estate professionals.

 

[LeslieDet]

He wasn't responding specifically to exit companies, but to your bolded sentence below. He correctly noted that one can help you get out of your timeshare by telling you not to make any more payments, eventually leading to foreclosure. In fact this happens with almost all exit companies.

The fact that you could have done it yourself--but hadn't-- doesn't mean the exit companies advice didn't lead to you getting out. The person didn't do it on their own, they paid a huge sum, and the company "got them an exit." Of course they are getting one out with their plan/advice. Your claim that one cannot "exit without the owner of that timeshare actually selling the ownership or successfully deeding it back" is still incorrect, no matter how you spin it and what caveats you attach to it.

You are so ridiculous. Just a chronic complainer. You really need to stop dissecting every word. You love to create fiction with my comments. I guess you need it broken down into very small morsels for you to grasp. The exit companies pitch that they can "get you out" of a timeshare. You are supposed to pay them money and they claim that they will magically make the ownership disappear.

Well, when it is deeded real property, ownership doesn't evaporate. Ownership can only be conveyed by a deed. A scammer's promise doesn't do anything to convey the ownership to another. A deed (properly prepared, properly signed, properly accepted and properly recorded) is actually required to transfer legal ownership when there is no other legal involvement or process like a foreclosure or a bankruptcy.

Someone giving another advice to file bankruptcy or to become delinquent in your financial obligations does not equate to getting an owner out of a timeshare. Plain and simple. The deed is still held by the owner unless and until there is some legal intervention. And, guess what? When there is a foreclosure, whether judicial or non-judicial, that means that a legal process is involved. The exit company isn't the company doing the legal work. Nope, that requires the HOA commence the proceeding. And bringing that proceeding to a conclusion, at which time there will be a foreclosure sale. Only after the foreclosure sale and deed completed in connection with same will the original owner no longer own.

If there is a bankruptcy, it isn't the exit company filing the bankruptcy. Nope, it is the legal owner of the timeshare. Bankruptcy also requires court involvement. Bankruptcy has many rules that folks who file must follow. It also requires all assets be disclosed. Depending upon the chapter filed, there could be many complexities. But once again, bankruptcy isn't processed or handled by the exit company, and if an owner is able to disclaim the asset in his or her bankruptcy, there will still be legal steps required that, golly, involve a deed to convey that ownership away.

 

[jp10558]

I especially like letting people know about the free giveaways forum here and that they should at least try that - yes, there are timeshares people won't take for free. But then there are some that people might be looking for...

My plan if I ever want to get rid of a timeshare is certainly going to start with trying to pass on to another person before taking it off the resale market...

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain​

I don't really have anything to add to this discussion, so I'm bowing out, but I just wanted to jump in to say:
1. I love this quote, it makes me chuckle every time I read it in your profile; and
2. Alas, you are misattributing it. It was never uttered by Mark Twain: https://marktwainstudies.com/the-ap...ever said these,Commandments and The King & I.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

I especially like letting people know about the free giveaways forum here and that they should at least try that - yes, there are timeshares people won't take for free.

I agree. When I decide to get rid of my timeshares, my order of operations is going to go something like this:

1. Sell the ones that still have value (DVC, maybe Marriott);
2. Try to give away the Wyndham ones here on the free forum;
3. If that fails attempt to do a deedback;
4. If that fails, send the HOA a letter informing them that I am no longer making any payments, I am more than happy to do a deedback, otherwise they can go through the expense of filing a foreclosure action.

I certainly will have no ethical compunctions about #4.

 

[davidvel]

You are so ridiculous. Just a chronic complainer. You really need to stop dissecting every word. You love to create fiction with my comments. I guess you need it broken down into very small morsels for you to grasp. The exit companies pitch that they can "get you out" of a timeshare. You are supposed to pay them money and they claim that they will magically make the ownership disappear.

Another made up strawman. Exit companies say all sorts of things, not just what you attribute to them. They mostly do say "We will get you out of your ownership," but they weave a web of garbage in most cases (where the resort has no takeback program) to convince the owner they dont; have to pay and to stop paying, usually leading to foreclosure or a surrender agreement. It is not always succesful. I have never heard an exit company spiel that says "they will magically make the ownership disappear." This is simply a fiction created by you.

 

[davidvel]

I don't really have anything to add to this discussion, so I'm bowing out, but I just wanted to jump in to say:
1. I love this quote, it makes me chuckle every time I read it in your profile; and
2. Alas, you are misattributing it. It was never uttered by Mark Twain: https://marktwainstudies.com/the-apocryphal-twain-never-argue-with-stupid-people-they-will-drag-you-down-to-their-level-and-beat-you-with-experience/#:~:text=Mark Twain never said these,Commandments and The King & I.

Yeah, I probably should follow that advice, whoever originally gave it.

 

[TUGBrian]

Someone giving another advice to file bankruptcy or to become delinquent in your financial obligations does not equate to getting an owner out of a timeshare. Plain and simple.

I believe the point that is being missed here (cant see the forest due to the trees) is that despite your claim of the contrary this is EXACTLY what happens when an owner stops paying either by themselves, or due to them engaging an exit company that instructs them to stop paying and cease all communication with the resort.

its actually more UNcommon for a timeshare to go thru the foreclosure process due to all the cost/time/expense of doing so, thus when an owner becomes delinquent more often than not the resort will simply reach out to the owner and work out a situation that has the owner willingly sign the ownership back to the resort/developer.

as mentioned before, exit companies do not facilitate this process or help it in any way...and in fact in some cases they actually HURT an owners chances of this happening as developers do not want to lend credibility to the exit companies guarantees.

ALL resorts have a deedback process, and all resorts take deedbacks either willingly by working with an owner or via foreclosure if an owner isnt cooperative or deceased or whatever.

most of them however do not make it public nor advertise its existence but situations exist for EVERY timeshare that requires a process in place for the association/whomever to either accept or take back an ownership.

 

[LeslieDet]

I believe the point that is being missed here (cant see the forest due to the trees) is that despite your claim of the contrary this is EXACTLY what happens when an owner stops paying either by themselves, or due to them engaging an exit company that instructs them to stop paying and cease all communication with the resort.

I am not the one missing the forest for the trees. The focus of the discussion was not what are any and all means of removing oneself as an owner of a timeshare. The focus was exit companies and what they pitch. I swear, if it was a access to or from a high rise we were discussing, and I say that you can either take an elevator or walk the stairs, there are some here that will say "Leslie is wrong because you can also jump out a window".

Perhaps my mistake is assuming that folks were sophisticated enough to grasp that legal processes are different than what an exit company promises. I have NEVER said that foreclosure doesn't get the owner out of the ownership. LOL Indeed, that should be a basic concept. Kind of like breathing air includes bringing oxygen into your lungs.

 

[Huskerpaul]

Kind of like breathing air includes bringing oxygen into your lungs.

Or you always needing to have the last word......

 

[davidvel]

Or you always needing to have the last word......

A new strawman is built in every post to help prove oneself able.

 

[dioxide45]

Or you always needing to have the last word......

Doesn’t that go both ways?

 

[TUGBrian]

Perhaps my mistake is assuming that folks were sophisticated enough to grasp that legal processes are different than what an exit company promises.

I guess you are right and quite literally everyone else is wrong. myself included.



perhaps its just your delivery....but these two statements are 100% in opposition with each other:

Someone giving another advice to file bankruptcy or to become delinquent in your financial obligations does not equate to getting an owner out of a timeshare. Plain and simple.

I have NEVER said that foreclosure doesn't get the owner out of the ownership. LOL Indeed, that should be a basic concept.

Can you explain how an owner is able to get the resort to foreclose other than defaulting on their fees/loan? Feel free to dumb it down for me, i dont get offended...heck my education is all from public/state schools!

 

[LeslieDet]

I guess you are right and quite literally everyone else is wrong. myself included.



perhaps its just your delivery....but these two statements are 100% in opposition with each other:





Can you explain how an owner is able to get the resort to foreclose other than defaulting on their fees/loan? Feel free to dumb it down for me, i dont get offended...heck my education is all from public/state schools!

You are not paying attention to the focus of the post. The post was asking about the "exit" companies. The discussion I was having was about the misleading nature of the pitches made by those "exit" companies. The exit company cannot take any act that will remove the owner from title. As I explained, when someone actually owns real property, there is a deed. The exit company has no ability to change or eliminate the deed. The exit company cannot remove the owners name from the deed. The only way for an owner to no longer be an owner - when it is just the person and not involving any court intervention - is for that person to convey ownership via deed. That conveyance can be for actual compensation, or it can be for no compensation. In order to do that, there must be a properly prepared, properly notarized, properly accepted and properly recorded deed. There is no action that someone who does not own, like a pitchman from an exit company, can take to remove that ownership. It will require the owner convey the ownership. And, keep in mind that many of the exit company pitches are simply pay the exit company money and they will get you, the owner, out of the deed. That is the fraud.

Now, if you want to expand beyond the exit company's sales pitch, of course acts like foreclosure can remove the owner from title. But, the exit company isn't the one who processes a foreclosure. We weren't discussing foreclosures when answering the question of whether or not an exit company can legitimately remove the owner from ownership. If an owner owes purchase money and defaults in the payment of the loan for that purchase, then the lender can foreclose. That requires either a judicial or non-judicial procedure. Once again, that doesn't involve an exit company taking any legal steps or process to commence or pursue the foreclosure. That is done by or on behalf of the lender.

Now, if the property is fully paid, and the owner defaults in the payment of the maintenance fees, then typically one legal remedy available to the aggrieved HOA is foreclosure of the lien for unpaid dues/maintenance fees. That is a longer process and requires the HOA to commence the legal process. An exit company is not involved in that foreclosure.

I never said that a successfully completed foreclosure doesn't remove the owner from title. Indeed, that is the purpose of the foreclosure proceeding. But again, that has absolutely nothing to do with an exit company. That requires either the aggrieved lender or the aggrieved HOA to pursue those legal remedies as against the defaulting owner.

If folks are now spinning this to say that the mere act of giving advice is the equivalent of "getting an owner out of their ownership" then I will disagree. The point of my discussion was for the OP to be aware of what the exit companies promise because when it is deeded real estate there is no way to simply "get out" based upon an act done by the exit company.

This was not a post about giving advice as to all means of dealing with ownership or how to end that ownership. For goodness sake, when there is a post asking about those "rent your unused II exchanges now" - folks all chime in and say it is a scam, because it is indeed a scam. No one starts a discussion of how someone can rent their owned weeks out by placing an ad on Redweek or on TUG or some other platform because the topic is focused on whether or not the claim that unused getaways or II exchanges can be rented out, and not an overview of "how to rent out" a timeshare week.

 

[TUGBrian]

You are not paying attention to the focus of the post. The post was asking about the "exit" companies. The discussion I was having was about the misleading nature of the pitches made by those "exit" companies.

yea you lost me right off the bat with this one Leslie...im sorry again...these two things seem like the exact same topic?

however after reading your post, I dont think we are in disagreement with how exit companies operate and how bad it is for any owner to engage one...but I admit I do not exactly understand what argument you are trying to make. I dont think anyone here believes that exit companies do anything meaningful in this entire process. We appear to be arguing the effects of gravity on someone who either jumped off a cliff or was pushed...despite the end result being the same.



However by defaulting on your timeshare (either on your own, or being duped into doing so by an exit company), that action will result in the end of your ownership.

 

[LeslieDet]

however after reading your post, I dont think we are in disagreement with how exit companies operate and how bad it is for any owner to engage one.

I was wondering why, starting with #146, it seemed there was sympathy towards exit companies. Then I asked to identify one legit exit company, and the discussion then went off towards foreclosure and BS unnecessary comments surging with #149, 152, 153, 160, 165, and 170. Yes, it gets absolutely ridiculous.