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Attended a presentation by Timeshare Exit Company Encore Law

ScoopKona

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They are claiming that the ownership of a timeshare is a contract and that you have it forever unless you legally get rid of it. They will get rid of that liabiltiy for you. They are charging about 1/2 of the maintenance that you will owe for the next 10 years.

For the benefit of all the people who read these posts without ever creating an account. Here's the executive summary of this scheme.

SCAM-SCAM-SCAMMITY-SCAM-SCAM-SCAMAROONI-SCAM-SCAM-SCAMALICIOUS-SUPERSCAMAFRAGALISTICSCAMYALADOCIOUS

I wouldn't attend one of these scam presentations. I don't care what they're giving away. I'm not going to put myself in the same room as a bunch of criminals. Nothing good can come of it. Anyone who has to entice me with a steak dinner isn't selling anything I will ever be interested in. It's a lovely barometer -- Free steak dinner? Horrible people who aren't worth dealing with.

Finally, to sum up: SCAM!
 

Fido Chuckwagon

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However, this discussion needs to address the bigger question of the liability of owning a timeshare that one no longer wants or needs. That is the reason we went to the presentation. At this presentation they warned, like you and LeslieDet did, about the liabiltiy that the estate has and could inherit if the estate has a timeshare that isn't up to date on the maintenance. That is a cost we don't want to leave to our children!
I think you misunderstood what I wrote. Your children do not have to inherit the timeshare. Nobody does. If you default before you die, they’re likely going to foreclose before you die, and it’s likely going to be problem solved anyway (not to be too morbid). If you don’t default before you die, I posited that so long as nothing is owed, there’s really nothing else that needs to be done with a worthless timeshare. You certainly should not be paying anyone money to help you get rid of the timeshare, those are ALL scams. If you don’t owe a mortgage on a timeshare, and want to get rid of it right now, first try to see if the HOA will just take it back, and if they won’t, just stop paying the maintenance fees. You have very little downside risk except for possible (but probably unlikely) damage to credit.
 

Fido Chuckwagon

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They are charging about 1/2 of the maintenance that you will owe for the next 10 years.
They are LYING to you. They are going to take your money and do NOTHING. Best case scenario is that they are going to take your money and have you default. You can do that yourself for free!
 

ScoopKona

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You have very little downside risk except for possible (but probably unlikely) damage to credit.

And continuing with "let's help the people who read and never post," this company will cheerfully take people's money. And then they'll come up with a reason they need more money. And more. And more. And they'll keep squeezing that chamois until the victim realizes he or she has been scammed.

It's not "give us 50 percent of 10 years of maintenance fees and you're good to go."

It's "give us 50 percent of 10 years of maintenance fees and we use that to buy a Porsche. And then you're still in the same place you were before sending us money."
 

Fido Chuckwagon

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10 years to legally get your name off the deed.
They are not going to “legally” get you off the deed. There is no “magical” way that some scammy exit company has figured out to legally get you off the deed. These companies are all scams.
 

dioxide45

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They are not going to “legally” get you off the deed. There is no “magical” way that some scammy exit company has figured out to legally get you off the deed. These companies are all scams.
Well... technically foreclosure is a legal process for a creditor to take back collateral. So they could be "legally" getting you out of your timeshare to tell you to avoid all contact with the timeshare company and stop paying.
 

Tamaradarann

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I think you misunderstood what I wrote. Your children do not have to inherit the timeshare. Nobody does. If you default before you die, they’re likely going to foreclose before you die, and it’s likely going to be problem solved anyway (not to be too morbid). If you don’t default before you die, I posited that so long as nothing is owed, there’s really nothing else that needs to be done with a worthless timeshare. You certainly should not be paying anyone money to help you get rid of the timeshare, those are ALL scams. If you don’t owe a mortgage on a timeshare, and want to get rid of it right now, first try to see if the HOA will just take it back, and if they won’t, just stop paying the maintenance fees. You have very little downside risk except for possible (but probably unlikely) damage to credit.
Thank you for your thoughts. We didn't go for this "Scam". As I said before I was just posting to see if anyone has had any experience with this company. We have no mortgage on any of our timeshares. I have always thought that if we no longer wanted the timeshares and the company wouldn't take it back we could just stop paying the maintenance and the company would foreclose. However, in your previous discussion with LeslieDet on this subject the feeling I got was that if there was say 10 years worth of maintenance not paid on the 7 timeshare that we own when we pass away the ESTATE could owe a couple of hundred thousand dollars. That is our children's estate to inherit!

I am not an attorney so I don't have any education or experience with this type thing. I wish LeslieDet was along with this dicussion to take up the argument.
 

dioxide45

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Thank you for your thoughts. We didn't go for this "Scam". As I said before I was just posting to see if anyone has had any experience with this company. We have no mortgage on any of our timeshares. I have always thought that if we no longer wanted the timeshares and the company wouldn't take it back we could just stop paying the maintenance and the company would foreclose. However, in your previous discussion with LeslieDet on this subject the feeling I got was that if there was say 10 years worth of maintenance not paid on the 7 timeshare that we own when we pass away the ESTATE could owe a couple of hundred thousand dollars. That is our children's estate to inherit!

I am not an attorney so I don't have any education or experience with this type thing. I wish LeslieDet was along with this dicussion to take up the argument.
If the HOA forecloses before you pass, the estate is no longer responsible.
 

Fido Chuckwagon

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Thank you for your thoughts. We didn't go for this "Scam". As I said before I was just posting to see if anyone has had any experience with this company. We have no mortgage on any of our timeshares. I have always thought that if we no longer wanted the timeshares and the company wouldn't take it back we could just stop paying the maintenance and the company would foreclose. However, in your previous discussion with LeslieDet on this subject the feeling I got was that if there was say 10 years worth of maintenance not paid on the 7 timeshare that we own when we pass away the ESTATE could owe a couple of hundred thousand dollars. That is our children's estate to inherit!

I am not an attorney so I don't have any education or experience with this type thing. I wish LeslieDet was along with this dicussion to take up the argument.
You’re sort of in worst-case scenario mode here. With that said, your profile makes it look like you own all HGVC properties? My understanding is that those tend to be pretty desirable. If this is really worrying you why don’t you do one of the following two things:

1. Post that you are willing to give them away for free on the TUG giveaway board; or
2. Contact the resort and see if they will take a deed back?

I’m pretty confident you’ll be able to get rid of these given that you don’t owe a mortgage. These aren’t Westgate properties we’re talking about.

Edit: Also, it’s probably pretty unlikely that HGVC will take 10 years to foreclose on you if you stopped paying maintenance fees today. And as @dioxide45 indicated, once they foreclose, you’re going to be in the clear, because a deficiency judgment for unpaid maintenance fees is basically unheard of (and in many/most states impossible). However, again, I don’t think you need to go down this route because with even a tiny bit of effort on your part you’re going to be able to give these away or deed them back.
 
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stmartinfan

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It’s unfortunate that this post which was originally about helping someone who was trying to figure out their situation has been waylaid by Tamaradann with her off topic question about a scam company and her misinterpretations of info provided in earlier discussions. Not sure if the original poster will get the advice they need.
 
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Tamaradarann

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You’re sort of in worst-case scenario mode here. With that said, your profile makes it look like you own all HGVC properties? My understanding is that those tend to be pretty desirable. If this is really worrying you why don’t you do one of the following two things:

1. Post that you are willing to give them away for free on the TUG giveaway board; or
2. Contact the resort and see if they will take a deed back?

I’m pretty confident you’ll be able to get rid of these given that you don’t owe a mortgage. These aren’t Westgate properties we’re talking about.

Edit: Also, it’s probably pretty unlikely that HGVC will take 10 years to foreclose on you if you stopped paying maintenance fees today. And as @dioxide45 indicated, once they foreclose, you’re going to be in the clear, because a deficiency judgment for unpaid maintenance fees is basically unheard of (and in many/most states impossible). However, again, I don’t think you need to go down this route because with even a tiny bit of effort on your part you’re going to be able to give these away or deed them back.
You are correct that all we own is HGVC except Misner Place. We are working on deeding back some of our units to HGVC right now.

My comments and thoughts here at TUG are less concerned with my particular situation since, as I have said we are still using and enjoying our timeshares and we hope we have a decade or more to live, so, the dire situation is not immediate. However, others have commented negatively about stop paying the maintenance as the way to get out of the timeshare burden which is what you are suggesting. It is important that ALL TUG MEMBERS, know how to leave their timeshares when they no longer want and need them since the market for selling is so poor
 

vacationtime1

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You are correct that all we own is HGVC except Misner Place. We are working on deeding back some of our units to HGVC right now.

My comments and thoughts here at TUG are less concerned with my particular situation since, as I have said we are still using and enjoying our timeshares and we hope we have a decade or more to live, so, the dire situation is not immediate. However, others have commented negatively about stop paying the maintenance as the way to get out of the timeshare burden which is what you are suggesting. It is important that ALL TUG MEMBERS, know how to leave their timeshares when they no longer want and need them since the market for selling is so poor
Most of us own timeshares and all of us are going to die someday; there is no reason to be in panic mode. Your timeshares have value and your heirs will have no difficulty disposing of them.

But if you really, really want to help your heirs in this process, put your timeshares into a revocable trust. That way your heirs will not need to open ancillary probates in Nevada and Florida in order to sign deeds after you pass.
 

ScoopKona

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However, others have commented negatively about stop paying the maintenance as the way to get out of the timeshare burden which is what you are suggesting.

Who? Most of us are of the opinion of, "If someone owns a loser of a property, walk away. It is unlikely anything will happen. And if the person's credit score gets dinged, it will bounce back soon enough."

I have suggested to multiple people who are stuck in bad timeshare situations to rip the band-aid off and walk away sooner than later. I wouldn't suggest this if I wasn't willing to do it myself.

Both of us own timeshares which have some value, though. So it only takes a thimbleful of effort to shed them without any credit hit at all. I recommend starting the process immediately. Because I agree that having a timeshare in an estate is the same as having the Queen of Spades in a game of Hearts.
 

Tamaradarann

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It’s unfortunate that this post which was originally about helping someone who was trying to figure out their situation has been waylaid by Tamaradann with her off topic question about a scam company and her misinterpretations of info provided in earlier discussions. Not sure if the original poster will get the advice they need.
The purpose of my comments and thoughts here at TUG are less concerned with my particular situation than what others need, in accord with the title of this thread: HELP GET OUT OF TIMESHARE

Any reference that I made to my personal situation and my presentation visit to a "scam" company was done to focus on a real solution not to "waylay" the thread.

Some have suggested to stop paying the maintenance, others have commented negatively about stop paying the maintenance as the way to get out of the timeshare liability. If you can just STOP PAYING THE MAINTENANCE AND THE PROBLEM GOES AWAY THAT IS GREAT. In this "scam" presentation they suggested that you CAN'T JUST STOP PAYING THE MAINTEANCE; THE PROBLEM IS STILL THERE. It is important that ALL TUG MEMBERS, know how to leave their timeshares when they no longer want and need them since the market for selling is so poor.
 

Tamaradarann

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Most of us own timeshares and all of us are going to die someday; there is no reason to be in panic mode. Your timeshares have value and your heirs will have no difficulty disposing of them.

But if you really, really want to help your heirs in this process, put your timeshares into a revocable trust. That way your heirs will not need to open ancillary probates in Nevada and Florida in order to sign deeds after you pass.
DONE
 

Fido Chuckwagon

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In this "scam" presentation they suggested that you CAN'T JUST STOP PAYING THE MAINTEANCE; THE PROBLEM IS STILL THERE
Ok, but they were lying to you because they were trying to scam you out of your money. That’s literally the scam. They scare the crap out of people about all the terrible things that can happen to get you to pay them thousands of dollars to do nothing.

If you stop paying the maintenance fees, eventually the HOA will foreclose. It won’t take 10 years. And that’s likely it. *maybe* you get your credit dinged, but probably not. A deficiency judgment is probably as likely as getting struck by lightning, and even that isn’t some horrible worst case scenario where you owe infinite money forever, which is what these scam companies are trying to make you believe.
 

ScoopKona

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In this "scam" presentation they suggested that you CAN'T JUST STOP PAYING THE MAINTEANCE;

Stop using scam in quotes. It's definitely a scam. They're trying to scam you. They want you to give them money. This isn't a "scam." It is a SCAM. Take everything they told you and ignore it.

We finally disconnected my mother in law's land line. Scammers called her constantly, posing as the IRS, and she would tell them ANYTHING THEY ASKED. Social security numbers of her children and grandchildren, bank account information, credit card accounts.

"Mom, that's a scammer."

"They said they were the IRS!"

"Mom, the IRS doesn't call. They write letters. Or they come visit you personally if you're in big trouble. THEY NEVER CALL."

"But they said they were the IRS!"

We finally had to cut her phone line.

EDIT -- I'd like to point out that the only reason I'm replying is for the benefit of all the people who anonymously read this stuff. I'm well aware I am wasting my time.
 
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Fido Chuckwagon

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EDIT -- I'd like to point out that the only reason I'm replying is for the benefit of all the people who anonymously read this stuff. I'm well aware I am wasting my time.
I feel kind of bad because it seems like Tamarand is going to end up shipping thousands to a scammer at some point so I am trying to continue to point this out so that she doesn’t, but it feels like I’m not getting anywhere, because she’s clearly made up her mind.
 

Tamaradarann

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I feel kind of bad because it seems like Tamarand is going to end up shipping thousands to a scammer at some point so I am trying to continue to point this out so that she doesn’t, but it feels like I’m not getting anywhere, because she’s clearly made up her mind.
Don't assume that my husband and I will do anything that we don't say we are going to do. If we say we are going to do it WE WILL. If we don't then speak to the wall and don't make an ASS U ME .
 

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It’s unfortunate that this post which was originally about helping someone who was trying to figure out their situation has been waylaid by Tamaradann with her off topic question about a scam company and her misinterpretations of info provided in earlier discussions. Not sure if the original poster will get the advice they need.
Yep agree , they should of taken their chat to another new thread instead.
 

Tia

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I have a family member who was a partner in a very large law firm with offices across the country. While he was giving us a tour his new multi-million home in a big city back during the Great Recession he casually told us he had stopped making house payments because, with the drop in property values, his home was worth less than what he owed. I asked why he would do that given he could clearly afford to keep paying his mortage? I will never forget this lawyer's reply, "Both sides assume risk when entering into a contract."

Boy I'd be interested in credit rating hit , or maybe there is a way to avoid that being a 'partner in a very large law firm' knowledge base.
 

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@Tamaradarann I understood it that you were not recommending, or even thinking about using, any exit company. I think you were just wanting to hear about options on how to prevent your children from being forced to accept the burden of timeshares that they do not want.

As you know, exit companies are not the answer. They have nothing special up their sleeve to make a timeshare disappear. They will use lies and scare tactics to get the upfront fee. They will charge thousands (and in your presentation case it is well over $10,000). If they can’t do anything easy, like a deed back or giving the timeshare away (both of which a timeshare owner could do themselves for thousands less), then they will stall for months or years until it is foreclosed on. A foreclosure shouldn’t cost thousands of dollars, it should be free to the timeshare owner.

This is not necessarily directed at you but rather the many new TUG guests who come seeking validation for paying thousands of dollars upfront to an exit company. I am not a lawyer or CPA, and much of this is what I have learned recently. Others can respond if I am off the mark. Here is the hierarchy of your well earned money:

Pay $10,000+ to an exit company who won’t do anything that a timeshare owner could do themselves for a fraction of the cost. The likelihood is that the exit company won’t do anything at all and just scam you.

If you plan on keeping the timeshare up until your passing (of course one could pass unexpectedly) set aside about $4,000 for ancillary probate if your timeshare is not in your state of residence. Your heirs are not forced to accept a timeshare and this would be the proper, and legal way, to transfer back to the HOA.

Put your timeshares is a revocable trust to avoid ancillary probate.

Check your resort for deed back programs.

Give away your timeshare for free before you pass. If you want it done quickly, offer free closing and a $1,000 Visa cash card at closing. Depending on the resort, I believe someone will want it within minutes of posting.

Do nothing, stop paying and let it foreclose.
 

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They are charging 1/2 of the mainteance that you would have to pay for the next 10 years to legally get your name off the deed.
They are scamming you for 1/2 of what they are calculating as 10 years of MFs. No, they cannot legally get your name off the deed by charging you money like that.

The ONLY way to legally get your name off of a deed is to: (1) legally convey title (and execute the deed pursuant to the laws of the jurisidiction where the real property is located - note some states have different laws for notaries and what is required to execute a deed, ie some have witness signatures, others have thumbprints in the notary book) to some other person or legal entity whether by sale or gift or (2) be subject to a legal process whereby your legal ownership is being eliminated because a court or trustee has acted within the bounds of the law to terminate your ownership interest. That could be a court ordered foreclosure, a non-judicial foreclosure, or some other court process whereby the court orders that a deed be recorded (that you as the owner did not sign) legally transferring the ownership to another. It could be a judgment creditor, a lender, a HOA that foreclosed due to non-payment, etc..

When you die, depending upon how title was held, your estate may still have a legal ownership interest, and in that circumstance, the executor of your estate must seek permission from a court via a probate to act on your behalf. If your title was held as a joint tenant, then nothing is required, because by definition the legal ownership transfers to the remaining joint tenant(s) when one joint tenant dies. The only thing to record is an affidavit of death of joint tenant.

Anyone who suggests that they can "get your name legally off of a deed" if you only pay them 1/2 of future maintenance fees for 10 years, those folks are the same ones who told you that if you only paid the taxes, you would be entitled to your Nigerian uncle's millions that have been held in a bank waiting for relatives to be located. Take a step back, no one knows what MFs will be for next year, let alone 10 years. That should be your first clue. No one knows what insurance rates will be, utility costs, if a hurricane will decimate your vacation property, etc. etc.

Those folks are no different than the ones who want to buy something from you off of FB marketplace or Craigslist and they are going to send you a check or money order for 2x+ the amount of money you are asking for whatever it is you are selling, and you just need to send them the change. In the "good ole days" they used to send checks or fake USPS money orders and recipients would deposit those checks or money orders, and then 2 weeks later their banks would reverse the deposit because the checks were drawn on fake accounts or the USPS said the MOs were fake. In the meantime, you paid to ship whatever it was you were selling off to whoever scammed you and you also sent them your own check for the difference in price. So, you lost the item you were selling, you paid the shipping, and you paid them money. Nowadays, the scammers say that they'll pay you via Venmo, but they have a "business" account so they can only send the money to a business account, and they'll front you $550 to upgrade your Venmo to a "business" account and then you can pay them back via PayPal. They'll send you fake screenshots of depositing money into a fake Venmo account (there isn't a difference in Venmo accounts) and the one getting scammed sends them the $550 "fronted" back via PayPal, and lo and behold, there is never any money that ends up in your real Venmo account.

The schemes change constantly. Don't be gullible. If you want off your deed, then sell it or give it away. Those are your options. I never suggest waiting for a foreclosure, but that is the other way to get off a deed, it just has consequences.
 

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Because you have placed your ownership into your revocable living trust, if you do not dispose of via sale or gift prior to your passing, your successor trustee will have the ability to do so without wasting the money on probating your estate. That is a good thing. It seems you are really afraid of the future costs. That being said, have you placed any of your various ownerships up for sale currently? Have you looked on Redweek to see what resales for where you own are selling for? Talk to a broker if you are so worried. What do your kids want? Do they like the timeshares? If so, then don't worry about the future costs. Your successor trustee will deal with the issues when the time comes.
 

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I have a family member who was a partner in a very large law firm with offices across the country. While he was giving us a tour his new multi-million home in a big city back during the Great Recession he casually told us he had stopped making house payments because, with the drop in property values, his home was worth less than what he owed. I asked why he would do that given he could clearly afford to keep paying his mortage? I will never forget this lawyer's reply, "Both sides assume risk when entering into a contract."
I'd say that during the 2008-2012 Great Recession and financial crisis that he was leveraging the decline in value to take advantage of the various federal loan modification programs that were out there and pressuring his lender to compromise his loan balance. I seriously doubt he would ever allow his property to go into a foreclosure. His game was basically one of chicken with his lender. And, he would still have taken a credit hit because his loan payments were late. If he moved from the home it may have worked to reduce his debt. If his loan was a purchase money debt, then yes, his lender assumed the risk that the collateral would decline in value and there would not be any deficiency judgment for a judicial foreclosure. But it seems like he was just trying to impress you. The last thing a big firm partner would want is a NOD published.
 
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