Any Guess

[ronparise]

I confess I was wondering the same.

Dont know yet

 

[WManning]

I dont think anyone was ripped off, They wanted something and were willing to pay what they did for it

When Wyndham came after me they asked me how it was possible that I owned contracts the generated only x points annually but I had over 9x points in reservations. I explained that I started the year with an allocation of 3x points, then used the credit pool to "borrow" 6x points, I then made reservations with all 9x points. I then sold 2/3 of what I owned (now stripped of points) leaving the account as he saw it. When I gave him the additional information that Wyndham was the ultimate buyer. he was pissed and accused me of essentially what you are .... no ethics

My comeback to him was to say, I didnt take advantage of Wyndham when I sold them points from at the rate of $5/1000 points and If anyone took advantage of anyone, it was wyndham that took advantage of the poor guy that paid $150/1000 points for the same points that I had sold back to Wyndham to sell again for $150/1000.

If anyone was lacking ethics, it was Wyndham that sold. what was available on ebay for $7000. to some poor soul for $150000
and in the case of sellers that use shills to bid up the price, Its not buyers that are the victims because they paid more than they should have, The real victim is the guy that paid Wyndham $150000 originally

I used to describe the timeshare relief companies and guys like me that bought from them as nothing but mice picking up the crumbs dropped by wyndham as the picked the flesh from their customers

Dude,
if you want to go after anyone for illegal and exploitive sales practices You are looking in the wrong direction

Wyndham has slowly closed the door on mice picking up the crumbs that affected Wyndhams bottom line. The last few years they have systematically eliminated just about all of their competition. Ovations alone took inventory back and eliminated abuse of exit teams. Look at anyone renting or the flippers of deeds everyone of these guys that were eliminated put thousands on Wyndham' s earnings per share. What is more important share holders were rewarded with a higher Price per share. We all know most executives are awarded stock options that can be exercised at a discount. The big picture says follow the money trail if you really want to understand why things are being implemented.

 

[WManning]

I have complained to ebay about it, i've reported sellers.

Ebay doesn't, and wont do anything about it, because they make money on auction selling prices. They have a vested interest in all auctions ending with higher final sale prices. So no, nothing will ever be done about it.

I've further more pretty much swore off using ebay. Which again, doesn't matter to them. Because their always suckers I guess who will use it. I will continue to advocate to others that ebay is a steaming pile of dung.

The takeaway here is that Ron, and his ilk, are ok with people being ripped off, as long as it's not them. Point taken.

It's not always shill bidding by sellers. Sometimes Its people playing games to force buyers to pay a higher price. You also need to pay attention to bid retractions a lot of gaming of system.

 

[rickandcindy23]

What is with all of these various posters constantly attacking Ron? It makes me angry and makes TUG not a nice place to be.

Here I am in this horrible place with Wyndham, and I don't know what the deal is with all of these people constantly defending Wyndham and attacking those of us who are not completely enamored with everything Wyndham does. Wyndham is the big corporation. I thought everyone hated big corporations and corporate greed and CEO's who are raking in the bucks while treating the little guy like crap. Why don't you get on the side of owners who are being bullied by Wyndham.

Unless some of you work for Wyndham, and that is what it's really about. We know Wyndham trolls these sites to glean whatever they can. Obviously, because Ron was contacted by Wyndham employees about his giveaways. Why does that not make you mad, that Wyndham has spies who come here and snoop around and use whatever they can find against the people who are being victimized.

This is disgusting behavior of a few TUG members and guests, and they are allowed to be disgusting and no one does a thing about it.

Ron never did anything WRONG!!!!!

 

[troy12n]

This is disgusting behavior of a few TUG members and guests, and they are allowed to be disgusting and no one does a thing about it.

Settle down, don't get your panties in a wad. "Disgusting behavior"? Come on now. We are entitled to our opinion, as you are yours...

Ron never did anything WRONG!!!!!

That is clearly an opinion not shared by very many people here... he certainly has his vocal supporters and opponents.

 

[CO skier]

Wyndham is the big corporation. I thought everyone hated big corporations and corporate greed and CEO's who are raking in the bucks while treating the little guy like crap. Why don't you get on the side of owners who are being bullied by Wyndham.

I cannot speak for "everyone" who lives in Oregon, California and Washington; for myself, I appreciate the economies of scale big corporations bring to putting food on the shelves of my local market such a Kroger and Safeway; I appreciate the economies of scale the big oil companies bring to keeping the gas pumps ready to deliver when I want to fill up; I appreciate the convenience that large telecom companies provide for my phone and internet and entertainment wants.

I appreciate the vacations Wyndham offers through my WorldMark and Club Wyndham memberships, that I could not otherwise afford.

There were posts after the introduction of automatic upgrades by Wyndham about how much easier it was to find 3 and 4 bedroom unit availability. That benefited all owners. Owner Priority Booking Windows obviously benefits all owners at the expense of non-owners.

What rules has Wyndham introduced in the last decade that did not benefit the majority of owners? It came as a price, of course; one paid by those "maximizing their ownership", but there are posts that the owners affected represent less than 5% of the Club Wyndham ownership.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Bnoble commented that I could be the benevolent relative who books for family and friends. That is not going to happen anymore.

Just one example of my fear of booking anything for family and friends: We have a wedding coming up in Salt Lake City, and a bunch of family would love to stay in Park City for the amenities, rather than SLC and have contacted me about the Wyndham resort. We are talking aunts, cousins, my stepdad and stepsisters, and many close friends of our family because this is our nephew, and my sister's friends and family are also my friends and family. I told all of them that I couldn't get Wyndham because I cannot add guests to anything anymore. We can stay there, sure, but we are afraid Wyndham will cancel any and all family, even if they are in the rooms the same 3-4 days we are there. Why would I worry about it? Because it's already happened.

I have looked at Marriott resorts for them and have several to offer via exchange, but I don't have the Marriott resorts to exchange for other people. I barely have enough for the kids and us. I bought more that are in the process of closing.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I cannot speak for "everyone" who lives in Oregon, California and Washington; for myself, I appreciate the economies of scale big corporations bring to putting food on the shelves of my local market such a Kroger and Safeway; I appreciate the economies of scale the big oil companies bring to keeping the gas pumps ready to deliver when I want to fill up; I appreciate the convenience that large telecom companies provide for my phone and internet and entertainment wants.

I appreciate the vacations Wyndham offers through my WorldMark and Club Wyndham memberships, that I could not otherwise afford.

There were posts after the introduction of automatic upgrades by Wyndham about how much easier it was to find 3 and 4 bedroom unit availability. That benefited all owners. Owner Priority Booking Windows obviously benefits all owners at the expense of non-owners.

What rules has Wyndham introduced in the last decade that did not benefit the majority of owners? It came as a price, of course; one paid by those "maximizing their ownership", but there are posts that the owners affected represent less than 5% of the Club Wyndham ownership.

As mega renters, we RARELY got any upgrades to the biggest units. After the "upgraded" system 6-7 years ago, we didn't even get automatic upgrades, even if a unit was sitting online in a 2 bedroom and a one bedroom was there to upgrade to the 2 bedroom, and we are Founders' level of ownership.

You cannot know what was available or not available to VIP unless you have it yourself, and that is what most do not understand.

I hope you enjoy the high gas prices in your part of the country and the inflation we are experiencing on groceries right now.

 

[ronparise]

The auction I looked at sold for less than $4,000 -- $3,595.

WORLDMARK BY WYNDHAM, 20,000, ANNUAL, CREDITS, TIMESHARE | eBay

This is a Worldmark policy, not ours. WorldMark by Wyndham. WorldMark also allows traveling owners with families the extra space and privacy, while avoiding the expense, worry, and inconvenience of having to split up the family into two or more rooms.

www.ebay.com

Add in $199 closing and $299 transfer fee = $4,093. The buyer is paying $1,195 for 20k credits valued at either $1,745.40 (the current maintenance fees on 20k) or $1,600 (the $0.08/credit rental rate) -- a savings of $405 or $550. $4,093 - $405 = $3,688 actual purchase price. The other $727.25 is a prepayment of the Sept. - Jan. maintenance fees. The new owner will get the use of the credits associated with those maintenance fees, so it is no different than if they became an owner the moment the auction ended (which they did, it will just take a few months for the owner to gain access to the WorldMark system). All the "additional" costs did was save the new owner from having to rent-in 20k credits to book their 5 weeks at WorldMark Oceanside or wherever they want in the WorldMark system the moment the transfer is officially completed.

I thought this would be an interesting comparison

the 20000 credit contract we were discussing was a fully loaded contract (this years credits, last years credits and next years credits all included) So on the first day the buyer can use the account he will have 60000 credits to use;

price of contract $3595
closing fee $195
transfer fee $299
mf for the 2020 credits $1922 and
mf for the 3 months since the anniversary date $727

Total $6738 / 20000 33 cents per credit for a fully loaded contract


The other contract a 40000 credit contract with only 40000 credits at settlement (or shortly thereafter) Assuming the buyer wanted 120000 to use at settlement and so we can compare the 2 contracts the buyer will have to buy in 80000 contracts at 8 cents a credit so $6400



40000 credit contract with an anniversary date of Dec 2022 $2085
closing costs and transfer fees $950

buy in 80000 one time use credits at 8 cents = $6400


total $9435 for a fully loaded 40000 credit account = 24 cents a credit



My only point is the same point that I was trying to make before, which is essentially the same thing that you are saying. You need to understand the product and you need to read the whole auction listing to make an informed bid

 

[CO skier]

My only point is the same point that I was trying to make before, which is essentially the same thing that you are saying. You need to understand the product and you need to read the whole auction listing to make an informed bid

I thought the point of this thread was to offer opinions on the "value" of a certain eBay auction. You made many points along the way. One of them was:

Thats why I tried to compare apples to apples ie Wyndham legacy resorts to Worldmarks 154000 point weeks to 10000 credit weeks. sometimes they are identical units When it comes to money, it seems to me that Wyndhan is generally cheaper to buy, and worldmark is cheaper to own,

I tried to compare apples to apples for anyone who might want to vacation at Oceanside, CA, but there are always differing views of what represents "value". Some people want lower cost (WorldMark wins) while others value location (Club Wyndham offers better views, if you can get them).

My analysis showed that the eBay Club Wyndham Oceanside auction had negative value compared to a typical WorldMark eBay auction with credits good anywhere in the system at 13 months.

Instead of trying to change the subject this late in the thread by comparing one WorldMark auction to another, I would like to see your comparison of the value of the eBay WorldMark auction that I linked, that anyone could have entered a bid for, versus the Club Wyndham Oceanside eBay auction in post #1. You and I know it would be a fools errand to use the shill-bidded final price of $7,101, so use the auction price you were willing to pay, or use the (lower) auction price at the time I posted $3,101, or use a sales price of $1. It is highly unlikely the Club Wyndham Oceanside contract will transfer before the end of the year, so any points available will be lost. Not so for WorldMark, and therein is a major advantage.

To conclude, for the specific Club Wyndham Oceanside contract in post #1, using a purely "dollars and cents" analysis showed that WorldMark Oceanside was both 1) cheaper to buy on a usage basis (is that not why someone would buy a timeshare?) and 2) cheaper to own.

 

[ronparise]

I thought the point of this thread was to offer opinions on the "value" of a certain eBay auction.

no that was not the point of this thread I was the original poster and my original post asked a simple question

what do you think this thing will sell for?

not what do you think this thing is worth, much less what is it worth to you

“Value”comparisons to other timeshare systems or to other resorts in Oceanside are interesting but not what I was asking. I must confess however thatI went down that same rabbit hole with you

thanks for the reminder that price and value are two different things

 

[am1]

What is with all of these various posters constantly attacking Ron? It makes me angry and makes TUG not a nice place to be.

Here I am in this horrible place with Wyndham, and I don't know what the deal is with all of these people constantly defending Wyndham and attacking those of us who are not completely enamored with everything Wyndham does. Wyndham is the big corporation. I thought everyone hated big corporations and corporate greed and CEO's who are raking in the bucks while treating the little guy like crap. Why don't you get on the side of owners who are being bullied by Wyndham.

Unless some of you work for Wyndham, and that is what it's really about. We know Wyndham trolls these sites to glean whatever they can. Obviously, because Ron was contacted by Wyndham employees about his giveaways. Why does that not make you mad, that Wyndham has spies who come here and snoop around and use whatever they can find against the people who are being victimized.

This is disgusting behavior of a few TUG members and guests, and they are allowed to be disgusting and no one does a thing about it.

Ron never did anything WRONG!!!!!

Wyndham attacks at the top (mega renters) and other owners are happy until Wyndham comes for them. Then there is no one else to help fight.

What Ron did wrong was taking and bragging about it so the people on here knew he was making money from the rental business. I had no interest in that. Only interested in making money and fighting Wyndjam

 

[HitchHiker71]

What rules has Wyndham introduced in the last decade that did not benefit the majority of owners? It came as a price, of course; one paid by those "maximizing their ownership", but there are posts that the owners affected represent less than 5% of the Club Wyndham ownership.

Actually it's closer to less than 1% in reality. As I have said in the past - TUG generally represents the exception to the rule when it comes to Wyndham timeshare ownership. I know this for a fact as I have captured many of the product enhancement requests over the past two plus years and have worked hand in hand with people at Wyndham to analyze these requests to determine if they will have a measurable impact to the majority of the ownership. I know that a fair amount of the TUG specific enhancement requests are geared toward a very small subset of the ownership that rents quite often, and/or owns millions of points, and therefore wants to see more granular and advanced functionalities on the website that won't be useful for the vast majority of non-VIP owners and even for the majority VIP owners (like me) for example. This doesn't take away from the collective dissatisfaction of this small subset of the ownership - I can sympathize with their plight(s) - but it does mean, again as I have said repeatedly in the past, that we're not going to see Wyndham prioritizing outlier changes that will positively impact only a very small subset of the ownership base.

That said, it does really concern me that some VIP owners do have legitimate gripes that for the most part appear to have gone unanswered. It's never a good idea to penalize your best customers with this in mind - at least those that continue to play by the rules so to speak. This is exacerbated by the fact that prior versions of the website used to have functionalities that are simply no longer present, so for those legacy owners who have been around for quite some time, their observations that the current version of the website collectively offers less flexibility and less functionality are very valid points.

 

[HitchHiker71]

What is with all of these various posters constantly attacking Ron? It makes me angry and makes TUG not a nice place to be.

Here I am in this horrible place with Wyndham, and I don't know what the deal is with all of these people constantly defending Wyndham and attacking those of us who are not completely enamored with everything Wyndham does. Wyndham is the big corporation. I thought everyone hated big corporations and corporate greed and CEO's who are raking in the bucks while treating the little guy like crap. Why don't you get on the side of owners who are being bullied by Wyndham.

Unless some of you work for Wyndham, and that is what it's really about. We know Wyndham trolls these sites to glean whatever they can. Obviously, because Ron was contacted by Wyndham employees about his giveaways. Why does that not make you mad, that Wyndham has spies who come here and snoop around and use whatever they can find against the people who are being victimized.

This is disgusting behavior of a few TUG members and guests, and they are allowed to be disgusting and no one does a thing about it.

Ron never did anything WRONG!!!!!

For anyone that chooses to take offense to what may be interpreted as somewhat controversial posts/replies, please leverage the Ignore functions on the forums so as not to continue to expose yourself to posts that may repeatedly offend based upon your respective point of view. As a general rule, the TUG moderator team does not endorse suppression of opposing viewpoints/opinions expressed without violation of the forum rules here on TUG. If anyone feels that a particular forum post violates forum rules, then by all means report the post for review by the moderator team and we will evaluate and, if necessary, moderate accordingly.

 

[ronparise]

Wyndham attacks at the top (mega renters) and other owners are happy until Wyndham comes for them. Then there is no one else to help fight.

What Ron did wrong was taking and bragging about it so the people on here knew he was making money from the rental business. I had no interest in that. Only interested in making money and fighting Wyndjam

I don’t think anyone here knows how much (or how little) money I made in the 5 years I owned Wyndham timeshare. It was actually less time than that
In my first year I rented one reservation (that came to me with a fixed week that I bought for a dollar) In that first year I made 5 weekend reservations 10 months out, I wasn’t VIP until deep into that second year. Or third year That’s when I made the decision to go big or go home. I went big

too big in fact to handle it all myself so I turned over most of what I owned to a manager. He paid $6/1000 (mf was 5)

I never thought of what I did as bragging, although it probably was. I thought of it as sharing what I had learned

but there was method to my madness too. I wanted Wyndham to know exactly what I was doing and that all the rule changes they had done didn’t have the desired effect. Large scale commercial renting was as big as ever. With any luck I thought they would clarify their position on renting and I (and others would know what we could and couldn’t do) that or ban renting altogether. They didn’t do either. Instead they continuedto do what they had done in the early 2000s. Change the rules to make renting less profitable

I really don’t think they understood the math. If I was making $10000 a month with an ownership of x points and they did things to reduce my income to $5000. I’m either gonna to accept that and make the same number of reservations to rent, or I’m gonna double my ownership to maintain my income

so my strategy didn’t work of being a braggart didn’t work and they shut me down for something altogether different than renting

 

[CO skier]

Actually it's closer to less than 1% in reality. As I have said in the past - TUG generally represents the exception to the rule when it comes to Wyndham timeshare ownership. I know this for a fact as I have captured many of the product enhancement requests over the past two plus years and have worked hand in hand with people at Wyndham to analyze these requests to determine if they will have a measurable impact to the majority of the ownership.

A similar thought regarding skewed viewpoint TUG posts in the Wyndham forum was made five years ago when the now failed Voyager reservation system was introduced.

All the BBB complaints and protests will not have any effect. I think TUG presents a disproportionate view of the changes, because it is disproportionately populated by VIP owners using Club Wyndham as a rental business. This is not the average owner. The average owners are the ones upgrading to VIP. TUG VIPs are already there and know not to enter into a retail purchase. As difficult as the Voyager introduction has been, I do not think it will create a blip on 3rd quarter earnings, jmo.

(The average TUG member is not "Everyone" and knows how a properly fitting timeshare [including Club Wyndham] can add immensely to their vacation enjoyment. That, at least, is my experience as an average timeshare owner who uses timeshares for personal vacations.)

The TUG Club Wyndham forum is not as bad now as it was back then when a very few Wyndam renters would corral any Club Wyndham forum post of significance off-topic into the viewpoint of using Club Wyndham as a rental business. I think the worst offenders were forced out of their Club Wyndham rental businesses, much to relief of those of us "everyday" owners in the Club Wyndham forum who just want to use Club Wyndham and the TUG Club Wyndham forum for our personal benefit and not for profiteering.

 

[CO skier]

I really don’t think they understood the math. If I was making $10000 a month with an ownership of x points and they did things to reduce my income to $5000. I’m either gonna to accept that and make the same number of reservations to rent, or I’m gonna double my ownership to maintain my income

Really? Still?

This is like a broken record that skips over the key point in the song.

 

[comicbookman]

I have complained to ebay about it, i've reported sellers.

Ebay doesn't, and wont do anything about it, because they make money on auction selling prices. They have a vested interest in all auctions ending with higher final sale prices. So no, nothing will ever be done about it.

I've further more pretty much swore off using ebay. Which again, doesn't matter to them. Because their always suckers I guess who will use it. I will continue to advocate to others that ebay is a steaming pile of dung.

The takeaway here is that Ron, and his ilk, are ok with people being ripped off, as long as it's not them. Point taken.

And you making almost 1000 posts to tug as a guest, not bothering to become a member and support the forum, is taking the high moral ground?

 

[ronparise]

Really? Still?

This is like a broken record that skips over the key point in the song.

View attachment 65620

I cant read what you posted there, but things change over time, including my opinions

All Im trying to say is that Wyndham is now invoking the commercial use clause directly. There was a time when Wyndhan was changing the rules in an indirect effort to curtail renting, by making it more expensive to do. They are finally taking direct aim against renting.

How they define commercial is unknown, and how they are identifying owners that they send "the letter" to is also unknown

 

[troy12n]

And you making almost 1000 posts to tug as a guest, not bothering to become a member and support the forum, is taking the high moral ground?

I'm just wondering... at what point does your incessant ranting about my guest status become not an "opposing viewpoint", but outright harassment?

If the owners of this website had intentions of requiring a paid subscription model for all users, that's their prerogative to implement that. As it stands, they don't. My guest status is of absolutely zero concern to you, or anyone else. I don't get access to certain functionality inside the website that you do... I made a value decision to be a guest. That's my choice, and considering my decision does not in any way affect you whatsoever, I would suggest you keep you opinions to yourself on the subject in the future...

Also, conflating my using this website for free... as the owners allow, to shill bidders, who do, fraudulently inflate the cost of the auctions, directly affecting buyers and potential bidders, is a ridiculous comparison.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I'm just wondering... at what point does your incessant ranting about my guest status become not an "opposing viewpoint", but outright harassment?

If the owners of this website had intentions of requiring a paid subscription model for all users, that's their prerogative to implement that. As it stands, they don't. My guest status is of absolutely zero concern to you, or anyone else. I don't get access to certain functionality inside the website that you do... I made a value decision to be a guest. That's my choice, and considering my decision does not in any way affect you whatsoever, I would suggest you keep you opinions to yourself on the subject in the future...

Also, conflating my using this website for free... as the owners allow, to shill bidders, who do, fraudulently inflate the cost of the auctions, directly affecting buyers and potential bidders, is a ridiculous comparison.

Like you are not harassing a bunch of owners of Wyndham on the forums by criminalizing those of us who are mega renters? Harassment is exactly what I would call it.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I cant read what you posted there, but things change over time, including my opinions

All Im trying to say is that Wyndham is now invoking the commercial use clause directly. There was a time when Wyndhan was changing the rules in an indirect effort to curtail renting, by making it more expensive to do. They are finally taking direct aim against renting.

How they define commercial is unknown, and how they are identifying owners that they send "the letter" to is also unknown

An aspect that others here do not mention, and I think is important, is that Wyndham didn't have to send out letters to non-owners, like Westin/ Marriott do regularly, to get new blood into their resorts with the mega renters providing new blood. I think sales will go down.

We had many people buy while on vacation, and we didn't advise that they rescind. One lady let our daughter know that she bought, but it was a month before, and she wondered how to do what our daughter does, because the salesperson told her she could rent. She spent a ridiculous amount of money and was promised by the salesperson that they had a department "just for this purpose, to help owners learn how to make money by renting." Disgusting.

When Wyndham starts offering free five-night stays to get people in, that will take inventory from owners as well. They will do it. It's a given.

 

[troy12n]

Like you are not harassing a bunch of owners of Wyndham on the forums by criminalizing those of us who are mega renters? Harassment is exactly what I would call it.

Well, to your point, there's really only ONE person who I have called out by name, he knows who he is. And at this point it's beating a dead horse.

And, in my opinion, you can't harass "a group" who is acting against the best interests of all owners, doing things which run counter to the rules. IE: calling mega renters fraudulent. You also can't be punished for calling out bad, detrimental, fraudulent behavior. If you fall into this category, sorry for your luck... change your behavior. Weren't you selling out anyway? So this won't be a concern of yours for very much longer...

Me, and many other owners here see mega renters behavior as detrimental to our ownership, and we are glad Wyndham is finally taking a stance against the scourge of mega renters.

And i've had many of my posts edited or deleted as a result... and if nothing else this is more of a call out to moderators to moderate more evenly.

 

[rickandcindy23]

The thing with mega renters, is that many TUG members have been mega renters but remain silent because of the vitriol here on TUG by about 4 members and guests. I keep wondering which of you are Wyndham higher-ups who are just trying to demonize mega renters to get the concensus on TUG against us.

Ironically, this has been a huge change in attitude on TUG. There were some really nice people who helped us 16 years ago on TUG with our decision to convert our Bali Hai weeks and gave advice right here in the open forums. But that has been quashed by Wyndham and the few cheerleaders.

Don't forget that you could become the target of these ever-changing rules that Wyndham puts into place.

Wyndham was always the cheapest timeshare on the market, and now it's below $0 for value. Wyndham did that. So what you own is now worthless, unless you own developer and have low MF's and take advantage of the discounts, which we will do, if we keep anything.

 

[HitchHiker71]

The thing with mega renters, is that many TUG members have been mega renters but remain silent because of the vitriol here on TUG by about 4 members and guests. I keep wondering which of you are Wyndham higher-ups who are just trying to demonize mega renters to get the concensus on TUG against us.

Ironically, this has been a huge change in attitude on TUG. There were some really nice people who helped us 16 years ago on TUG with our decision to convert our Bali Hai weeks and gave advice right here in the open forums. But that has been quashed by Wyndham and the few cheerleaders.

Don't forget that you could become the target of these ever-changing rules that Wyndham puts into place.

Wyndham was always the cheapest timeshare on the market, and now it's below $0 for value. Wyndham did that. So what you own is now worthless, unless you own developer and have low MF's and take advantage of the discounts, which we will do, if we keep anything.

I don't really see the irony at all. Let me explain why. What you're observing is far from only happening on TUG. I am also a moderator/admin on several of the Facebook Wyndham groups. I can tell everyone, for a fact, that this same pattern of behavior has been playing out on every Wyndham Facebook group. I'm a pattern type person - I have seen this pattern emerging over the past three years outside of TUG and also here on TUG. Wyndham has been hard at work changing the narrative - and the fact is that the vast majority of normal owners seem to buy into their argument - that megarenters are a part of the problem. The megarenters are attempting to fight back against Wyndham changing this narrative - both here on TUG and on other forums - but it seems to be a losing battle at least to date - since Wyndham makes the rules - we are all simply playing on their field(s). Regardless of how anyone feels about this topic (or any other topic really) - everyone is entitled to their opinions on either side.

So, yes, there is a changing pattern of consensus here on TUG - which is the exact same pattern emerging on other public forums. TUG is in no way unique with respect to this pattern in other words. Change is inevitable in this life. Change is the only constant IME. Changes often come in fits and starts and bunched together - as has been the case particularly during the pandemic with Wyndham. As @Jan M. has often said - these changes are likely going to continue. I'm honestly surprised that anyone doesn't see this same pattern bigger picture - I have clearly observed this ever since becoming an owner in July 2018. It is clear as day to me.

With regard to becoming a target - I've already been impacted when Wyndham locked down VIP benefits applying to resale points last year. This perk was never a defined benefit - so I count myself fortunate that I was able to utilize it for the first couple of years of my VIPP ownership. It was fun while it lasted, but that fun is now over.

IME the vast majority of timeshares are worthless on the resale market - a timeshare that actually has any real resale value seems to be the exception to the rule.

From a forum moderator standpoint, we as TUG moderators are not here to attempt to dissuade various opinions, or to prevent new/emerging consensus movements from taking root here on TUG - we are simply here to enforce the forum rules when applicable as these movements play out before all of us.