Any experience with Sierra Rentals and Resales??

[T_R_Oglodyte]

This doesn't strike me as a Ponzi, since they're not paying anyone off using the money coming in from other people.

This seems to me more like the Spanish prisoner scheme, which is what the Nigerian 411 schemes are. They are holding out the promise of a payout by getting involved, but in order to get the money out the victim needs to pay some money upfront. Then after the victim comes through with money, another obstacle arises which requires more money. The process continues until the victim either gets wise or simply cannot produce any more cash.

The wrinkle here is that the Spanish prisoner scheme is being played as a sting simultaneously involving hundreds of victims.

 

[Rent_Share]

This doesn't strike me as a Ponzi, since they're not paying anyone off using the money coming in from other people.

This seems to me more like the Spanish prisoner scheme, which is what the Nigerian 411 schemes are. They are holding out the promise of a payout by getting involved, but in order to get the money out the victim needs to pay some money upfront. Then after the victim comes through with money, another obstacle arises which requires more money. The process continues until the victim either gets wise or simply cannot produce any more cash.

The wrinkle here is that the Spanish prisoner scheme is being played as a sting simultaneously involving hundreds of victims.

My comment was in response to the poster saying if he could find proof of the first few getting unrealistic returns he would jump on board . . .

 

[famy27]

My comment was in response to the poster saying if he could find proof of the first few getting unrealistic returns he would jump on board . . .

I guess I should have phrased that differently. If Sierra/Joy had 52 people ready to sell and five dropped out because they were "getting nervous" and Sierra went ahead and closed with the remaining 47, I am guess there would be no problem finding five to take the place of those who dropped out of the line.

It was another convenient excuse to explain why closings haven't happened yet, but it is just doesn't make sense. I do wonder how long they will keep this going. My guess is that they will claim they were never able to get all 52 units ready to close at the same time because evil boards like this one convinced people it was a scam. When the people who have put money down try to get it back, they'll discover that their funds were used for advertising, administrative costs, etc and there is little or nothing left in the escrow they are supposed to have.

Amy

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

It was another convenient excuse to explain why closings haven't happened yet, but it is just doesn't make sense. I do wonder how long they will keep this going. My guess is that they will claim they were never able to get all 52 units ready to close at the same time because evil boards like this one convinced people it was a scam. When the people who have put money down try to get it back, they'll discover that their funds were used for advertising, administrative costs, etc and there is little or nothing left in the escrow they are supposed to have.

Amy

You're right - it doesn't make sense.

And here's another way that it doesn't make sense. Supposedly they are going to buy 52 units for $15,000 each. That's $780,000 payout right there, for the equivalent of one condo. Add in all of the other costs they are supposed to be paying - those transaction costs that amount to $1200 per unit, plus those taxes that are supposedly unpaid and now you're up to about $870,000. Then add in the overhead costs that they have to create this organization that is supposedly lining up all of those buyers, and you're easily well over $900,000.

To buy the equivalent of one ocean front condo in Puerto Vallarta!!!!

What a gross overpay!!! Why wouldn't they just take half to two-thirds of that money and go buy a comparable or better whole ownership condo in a nice, simple, clean transaction.

It doesn't make sense. And that's without even considering that they could easily buy those 52 units on the resale for no more than $1000 each.

********

The closer you look at this proposition, the more implausible it becomes.

 

[taffy19]

She actually visited TUG on the 14th, but hasn't posted since the 7th.

I just read the whole thread and this doesn't look good for gomezlor. Is there any hope left? I doubt it. So sad.

 

[Cargojon]

I just read the whole thread and this doesn't look good for gomezlor. Is there any hope left? I doubt it. So sad.

I'm guessing that if I were scammed after going through all this, I wouldn't come back to the board and own up to it. Sad, indeed. The TUG community can try to help but ultimately we can't protect people from themselves every time.

 

[famy27]

It appears that the poop has hit the fan with this scam, finally. This thread was like a soap opera to me, so I kept watching to see when this scam would finally collapse. It appears that today may be the day. On a different message board, there are posts from at least seven different people saying that today was the day they were supposed to have their funds wired. As will come as no surprise to anyone here, nobody received the money. All Sierra phone mailboxes are full, every e-mail to every address bounces back as undeliverable, and the website is down.

I do have to admire Sierra, in a weird way, for keeping this going for so long and making it look legitimate. Everyone kept praising the updates and checklists that they received along the way and thought it couldn't be a scam if they were still getting all of these updates. Then, when the "taxes" suddenly became due, a few seem to have wised up. However, lots of others paid another $700 or more in taxes to seal the deal. Now that Sierra has all of those funds, they can close up shop and call it a day. I just wonder how many people fell for this. From the other board, it appears that there were owners in at least three Mexican resorts who all got the same story.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

It appears that the poop has hit the fan with this scam, finally.

I'm truly sad to hear this. I was holding a wisp of hopte for folks such as gomezlor that this might be legit, even as I was 99% sure it wasn't.

***

I agree that it was a convincingly done scam operation. All of that continuing contact and followup after they got people to pay the $1600 or so kept people on board. I suppose that after people have been scammed by outfits that take the money and run, to get hooked up with an operation that provided regular updates, returned e-mails and phone calls, etc., must have seemed very encouraging. Made them feel as if they were finally dealing with a legitimate operation. Which I'm sure helped them draw in more folks through discussions on message boards, etc.

Then after playing people for a year or so on the purchase, they hit them up again on the taxes ploy for another $800. Then apparently right up to the end I guess they told people the money was coming. Then they shut everything down and turned out the lights, just like Paul Newman and the crew did at the end of The Sting.

 

[luckyone]

Offer to Purchase TS from RD Consultants

Boy am I glad I googled TS scams and read this thread.... I got an offer from Resort Dev. Consultants to buy my ts at Paradise Village on behalf of Mexican Condo Share - same deal - won't pay till all units are purchased. As of yet, no request for money upfront but they told me to register at MexCrow and that I am responsible for all escrow costs. Has anyone else been approached by these guys?

 

[DeniseM]

Has anyone else been approached by these guys?

There are 159 posts in this thread - you will want to read them...

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

I just read the whole thread and this doesn't look good for gomezlor. Is there any hope left? I doubt it. So sad.

I'm guessing that if I were scammed after going through all this, I wouldn't come back to the board and own up to it. Sad, indeed. The TUG community can try to help but ultimately we can't protect people from themselves every time.

Well, gomezlor hasn't posted back here. But eight days ago someone using the handle "gomezlor" did post in the Sierra Rentals and Resales thread at Complaints Board:

You can add me to the list of people that have been scammed. I'll do whatever I can to bust these dishonest jerks, so please let me know if I can help in any way. Has anyone done research as far as what (if any) recourse we might have legally?

 

[DeniseM]

So much for getting her money back from AMEX!

I emailed her a week or so ago and asked for an update, but she didn't respond.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

And the "Joy a Residence Club" website seems to have completely disappeared.

The Home page returns a white page with some small gray text that says:

"Joy A Residence club is off
Thanks for your suport!"
​

If you try to go to any of the subpages that show when googling, you get both 401 "page not found" error messages as well as 301 "moved permanently" error.

As I posted before, JaRC gave every appearance of simply being a web page created to support the scam. There was no detectable information that a functioning residence club of that name existed. With the scam apparently now played out, I guess there's no reason for it to exist.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

And yesterday someone with the user name "Cathy in Florida" added this post to the same Sierra Rentals thread at Complaints Board:

Since the Sierra Resort Services website it up again, i thought i would try and send a nasty-gram. Sssuming it would come back mail failure as usual, i was astonished to receive something from "them". the address was info@sierraresortservices.com. They actually sent me a word document with a form letter informing customers that their website had been hacked into. Here is their letter:

An unknown person or entity has hacked into our networks, telephone systems and parts of our database. This illegal act has been reported to the proper investigatory authorities. The disruption caused by this has been very costly to our company. However, we are diligently and aggressively working to repair the damage resulting from this vicious attack.We have determined that the attack originated out of Mexico, which exacerbates the difficulty in tracking the source of attack. This attack DID NOT compromise our secure server for credit card customers, or access any financial information of any of our clients.Rest assured that we are doing everything within our power to restore our damaged systems quickly so that we can successfully finalize all pending sales, as well as reconfirm all reservations for rental vacation weeks for your benefit and ours.We apologize for this delay, but ask for your patience during this difficult time.We will contact you as soon as we can proceed again."

Does this ever end? Do they have no shame? Next step, Florida State Attorney office.

 

[trieuj]

so sad...

wow... it's been almost a year since I was a first person posted my experience with Sierra. Thanks much to DeniseM who replied to my first post and warned me about Sierra. I cut all ties with Sierra, and decided to keep my TS. But I feel so sad that there are many people still fall for the scam that set up by Sierra and others.

I was too busy with work for many months and did not have time follow up this thread. If i did, I'd have help some people from sending their credit card to Sierra. I felt bad.... Hopefully in the future, we don't have anyone fall in this trap.

Anyway, a couple days ago, I got a voicemail from this number: 866-978-4708
asked me if i'm interested to sell my TS. the voicemail got cut in and out i could not catch what company he was calling from. But at this point i just not interested in playing their games and i did not bother to call him back.
Take care yourself!

JT

 

[shueyan]

Sierra Sales Rip off, Definitely

I am in very deep on this very scam. Yes, alot of us were relieved at an opprotunity to get out of the original master of rip offs Velas Vallarta sales scam. Call it what you want, being hopeful or just naive. We just wanted out of this entire scam from the git go. Now that I certainly know that this is wire fruad rip off on an international level, I have contacted the FBI to investigate. They immediately told me that Sierra Sales is not in Las Vegas but Mexico. This will make this investigation a whole lot more complex but very doable. Please help me stop this international scam that has stolden a lot of folks money. CONTACT YOUR LOCAL FBI AGENT. Let's make a case by the sheer number of reports to the FBI on Sierra Sales. What scares me the most is they now have all of my personal & financial information just as they do yours that got caught in this nightmare. This has once again broken my heart and makes me suspicious of any and every sales agent and especially anything to do with a timeshare. Let us join together and stop these crooks, rop offs & scam artist. I'm in and I pray some of other victims will join me.

 

[KristinKat]

Sierra Rentals Services

I too, am in this the same, the money sucks but now I am worried about identity theft among other things.

 

[Tenorsinging]

Sierra

I am surprised that the Joy Residence website didn't say:

Joy A Residence Club is Off
THANKS FOR THE MONEY SUCKERS!!!

OMG what a tragedy for some of these people. I can not tell you how GLAD, no glad is just not strong enough people...grateful I am that I found this thread. I own 30 years at Marival in Puerto Vallarta, and of course like so many of you, was given Sierra as the place to go to rent my weeks!! I was told that I could sell 2 weeks a year at $1000.00 a week. Never was I told that they would charge me an upfront fee.

They called me towards the end of last year, I kind of blew it off because we had not decided what to do yet. The guy gave me his name and number, which I proceeded to lose. In hindsite, I think my petulance paid off for me, as it looks like I would have never gotten my money. I started looking through my materials today because my husband said he wanted us to sell the 2 weeks so we could pay our Westin Maui maintenance fees (which of course is another gripe...NOOOO...we never go up each year, and if we do, not by much....) and so I was looking for the name and number of the people they recommended I call. I found the Sierra brochure, tried to call both the numbers. The 800 number was disconnected, and the other number just rang and rang. This of course to me set off bells, so I started looking for their website, and found it extremely strange that the only contact information was an email and no telephone number. That's when I started with the 'ole goog and of course found this thread and unfortunately many others. There goes any thoughts of selling in the future.

Of course for me it's like I get nothing in return, the place has tremendous sentimental value to me as me and my mom went there together for a "last hurrah" before she died of breast cancer. I have now taken my own daughter there, and would love to go there in the future, so it's not like I am stuck with a horrible place I hate. I am disappointed though that they would refer us to a bad company. How can they NOT know they are bad. On the other hand they are PAID to give that endorsement (nothing will convince me they do it for free folks) so I can see them not wanting to give up that extra moolah.

I guess now I just have to sit back and wait and see if I get everything else they promised, like the 30 bonus weeks...and availability....(details, details). Let's see what happens when I try to get us there this summer. I am really hoping that this part is not a scam and I will be able to book us into the hotel using what I bought last September. If they tell me "oh it's high season, no way to get you in this summer" I am not sure what I will do. I guess I will TRY and bank the week with HSI and reserve 2 weeks next summer (next year). Does anyone know how much HSI charges to book a week if anything, or how successful it is to use a booked week?

Sorry for the long post, I have just spent the last 30-40 minutes reading all of the preceeding posts, and am, well...not sure what I am feeling right now. I do feel really sorry for the people who lost thousands of dollars though - however I know several of you DESPERATELY tried to help them. Reminds me of the joke - you know the one where there is the flood, and the man says no, I'm fine, God will save me?....Sends away a boat, a helicopter...etc...Punchline: Drowns, gets to heaven asks God "Lord, why did you let me drown, I had faith in you, what happened?"...and God says "I TRIED!! I sent you a boat, a helicopter....etc" Well...you get it.

 

[foreverloves]

I've been lurking for months off and on since I moved to a new house and this thread caught my eye again. I'm very sorry for some that were scammed, but gomezlor was warned so many times publicly and privately about this. Denise encouraged her to challenge AMEX and get it taken off. She didn't. I just have a tough time feeling sorry for someone who was so thoroughly warned. I don't mean some of the others who were scammed and didn't know - the OP knew shortly after this but held on anyway. I am sorry for her but she can't say she wasn't heavily warned. I'm sure she won't come back because she'd have to admit that everyone here was right.

 

[Tenorsinging]

I recently sent an email to Marival with my concerns about Sierra, and if they accepted money from them for the endorsement. I was told that they did not get payment from them for advocating their usage (which I am not sure whether to believe or not) and that of course they "never said you had to use them, just another option for our owners...blah, blah...)

He also sent me a copy of the following letter from December 13, 2010:

December 13, 2010
To: Marival Sales Personnel

As you know Sierra Resort Services is no longer in business. As a result, they no longer have the right to represent your members. Our company will now be handling rentals and resales for your members. Any members that were previously signed up with Sierra, may call or e-mail us and we will register them at no cost.

We look forward to working with you and your members.

Cordially,

Phoenix Vacation Property Management

This of course begs several questions. This is dated December of last year, why is the letter addressed to the sales consultants, and we as owners got nothing. Is Phoenix just as bad? Do the people who have been suckered out of their money by Sierra know that Phoenix will take them on with no charge?

There was 2 telephone numbers also on the letter as well as an email address. I did not list it here as I do not know if you are allowed to do that.

Moderators: Is there some other thread that I might should put this on so that if Phoenix is not a complete scam as well, the people who paid Sierra can call Phoenix and see if they really will list their week for free? If they are legit, then it could be helpful for those who are out their funds.

As I said I left off the phone numbers, I am a new poster, so I do not want to start out by breaking the rules.

 

[Stefa]

I recently sent an email to Marival with my concerns about Sierra, and if they accepted money from them for the endorsement. I was told that they did not get payment from them for advocating their usage (which I am not sure whether to believe or not) and that of course they "never said you had to use them, just another option for our owners...blah, blah...)

He also sent me a copy of the following letter from December 13, 2010:

December 13, 2010
To: Marival Sales Personnel

As you know Sierra Resort Services is no longer in business. As a result, they no longer have the right to represent your members. Our company will now be handling rentals and resales for your members. Any members that were previously signed up with Sierra, may call or e-mail us and we will register them at no cost.

We look forward to working with you and your members.

Cordially,

Phoenix Vacation Property Management

This of course begs several questions. This is dated December of last year, why is the letter addressed to the sales consultants, and we as owners got nothing. Is Phoenix just as bad? Do the people who have been suckered out of their money by Sierra know that Phoenix will take them on with no charge?

There was 2 telephone numbers also on the letter as well as an email address. I did not list it here as I do not know if you are allowed to do that.

Moderators: Is there some other thread that I might should put this on so that if Phoenix is not a complete scam as well, the people who paid Sierra can call Phoenix and see if they really will list their week for free? If they are legit, then it could be helpful for those who are out their funds.

As I said I left off the phone numbers, I am a new poster, so I do not want to start out by breaking the rules.

They are probably the same people starting up a new scam under a different name. The reason they contacted the sales staff is because they get free advertising in exchange for helping the sales department get more sales with the false promise of great rental opportunities.

These companies make their money by charging upfront fees. All of their efforts are directed toward getting more owners to list with them. They have no incentive to actually rent out your week(s).

 

[Tenorsinging]

I was afraid that might be the situation. That's why I wanted to see if anyone had ever heard of them or done business with them. I just feel like if a company really can sell/rent your week for you, then they will not take any money upfront to do so, and any reasonable fees would be paid on the back end.

 

[NJ Resident]

RUN trieuj RUN !!

Keep your money in your pocket. Check them out at www.complaintsboard.com.

 

[toppats]

Hopefully anyone considering falling for selling their timeshare to a cold call scam will read this. My neighbor who is a realtor and I consider very savvy just got scammed out of almost $8,000 by a company that goes by: Real Time Property Investments and run their stuff through Santander Bank in Mexico. Supposedly they could sell their timeshare in Pueblo Bonito for $39,000. They just tried to get more money from them for the 3rd time.

 

[RX8]

This thread from 11 years ago is the perfect example as to why this exact same scam (under many different names) still exists today. There are plenty of victims willing to overlook all the red flags, and words of warning, because all they see are dollar signs.

I feel bad for Gomezlo because she mistook the harsh words of warning from TUGGERS with being mean. However, she alone chose to continue on with the scammers. This whole thread should be a stickie that posters who question the legitimacy of scammers should be referred to.