Alleged trucker shortage

[troy12n]

If there is one mode of transportation that could be completely automated and autonomous, I would think trains would be it. What does a crew on a train do that could not be centrally automated? We're getting closer and closer with cars, and the variables of auto travel on roads is probably several orders of magnitude greater vs. rail travel.

Kurt

Computers can handle trains on flat, straight, dry rail. There's a lot more to it than you might think.

When to apply train brakes vs when to apply dynamic brakes, when to brake in general, when to apply power, when to apply sand.

There's a certain amount of "feel" to operating trains that computers won't and can't understand or apply.

So what happens is when you apply power too early is you snap a drawbar or pull a knuckle because of slack action.

If you apply brakes to late, you could set up a runaway.

You have a pull apart, on single track, the railroad is shut down until you fix it. A computer isn't going to be able to walk a knuckle back 50 cars and put it on, then put the train back together. If it snaps a drawbar, a computer isn't able to set out the car.

Like I said, there's a lot involved...

 

[PigsDad]

Computers can handle trains on flat, straight, dry rail. There's a lot more to it than you might think.

When to apply train brakes vs when to apply dynamic brakes, when to brake in general, when to apply power, when to apply sand.

There's a certain amount of "feel" to operating trains that computers won't and can't understand or apply.

So what happens is when you apply power too early is you snap a drawbar or pull a knuckle because of slack action.

If you apply brakes to late, you could set up a runaway.

You have a pull apart, on single track, the railroad is shut down until you fix it. A computer isn't going to be able to walk a knuckle back 50 cars and put it on, then put the train back together. If it snaps a drawbar, a computer isn't able to set out the car.

Like I said, there's a lot involved...

Hmmm. Call me skeptical, but nothing you stated there seems out of the range of computer automatable. All of the "feel" and complex decision making could certainly be replicated using enough sensors and algorithms -- and they are not susceptible to human error. I know it is hard to hear or imagine your job could be fully automated, but I think you would be surprised at how many jobs could be. I'm guessing the ROI just isn't there due to the relatively few number of trains vs. trucks & autos, but I predict we will see it in the future.

Kurt

 

[troy12n]

Hmmm. Call me skeptical, but nothing you stated there seems out of the range of computer automatable. All of the "feel" and complex decision making could certainly be replicated using enough sensors and algorithms -- and they are not susceptible to human error. I know it is hard to hear or imagine your job could be fully automated, but I think you would be surprised at how many jobs could be. I'm guessing the ROI just isn't there due to the relatively few number of trains vs. trucks & autos, but I predict we will see it in the future.

Kurt

Think of the number of sensors, you would need a few per car (at least one at each knuckle, 2 per car to sense drawbar pull and buff forces, and one at one of the wheels to sense speed, possibly one at each brake, who knows), connected up via cable of some kind, or wirelessly, the cars have no power supply, so lots of batteries to replace. Then there is the setting up each car when the consist changes. Your average train these days is 150+ cars.

Then there is the matter that the railroads only own a fraction of the cars they pull. And private operators have no vested interest in paying money for a device that does not benefit them in any way, shape or form. Hell, the private car owners do virtually zero maintenance on their cars as-is, they run them till they break and then pay someone else to fix them where ever they crap out.

There was a system being developed called Electronic Controlled Pneumatic braking (ECP) which never got adopted because of the aforementioned issues I mentioned. It was mostly DOA because the trains had to be run as an entire train of ECP or conventional cars, not one car of the other type could be used in the consist. Private car owners, again, who own the majority of rail cars, said no way.

So after you sink all that initial expense, plus the cost to set it up and maintain it, i'm not entirely sure it would offset labor costs.

 

[joestein]

I'm not sure all those living on unemployment comp or childcare benefits are sitting home doing nothing. I suspect many are supplementing these benefits working off the grid for cash...

George

So true.

I is why I am in favor of an all digital economy. No more cash. Only electronic payments.

 

[Patri]

So true.

I is why I am in favor of an all digital economy. No more cash. Only electronic payments.

Seriously? Change our economic system because of a few doing this?

 

[dioxide45]

So true.

I is why I am in favor of an all digital economy. No more cash. Only electronic payments.

The regulators proposing banks (large and small) to report any transaction over $600.

 

[geekette]

The regulators proposing banks (large and small) to report any transaction over $600.

Is this the one currently set at $10k trigger? holy crap...

 

[dioxide45]

Is this the one currently set at $10k trigger? holy crap...

I am not sure if it is part of the same rule as the current 10,000 reporting requirement, but similar enough. Any deposit transaction over $600 would need to be reported. They say it is to cut down on tax cheats and bring in more revenue. It looks to be part of the current reconciliation infrastructure bill. For most Americans this would be every time they get a paid from their employer.

Perspective: The $600 IRS reporting requirement

What if I told you that every time you write a check, swipe your credit card, or deposit money into your bank account you had to report it to government?

www.newstribune.com

 

[isisdave]

I'm enjoying the discussion about trains and railroads, as it's a field I am COMPLETELY ignorant of.

But it did occur to me that the kludgy bottleneck in Chicago seems particularly vulnerable to a terrorist attack, either physically or on the software control system.

 

[chapjim]

18-20 year olds driving long haul trucks? Heckuva deal! What could go wrong?

OR
We are unfortunately stuck with a political hack, Louis DeJoy, rather than an experierenced civil servant as Postmaster General. He is trying to run the Post Office into the ground. Wonder how long it will last ...

Now both our comments can be deleted.

Gosh yes! The USPS has been the model of an economical, cost-efficient organization. Let's hear it for the experienced civil servants that have been running the USPS!

Somehow, I think the country would survive without a government-run postal system.

 

[emeryjre]

These are the same 18-20 year olds that are driving tanks, humvees, mraps, bradley's and handling the job. So I would go easy on your view of their abilities.

 

[joestein]

The regulators proposing banks (large and small) to report any transaction over $600.

I am talking about eliminating CASH all together. Only have electronic payments.

It would eliminate the underground economy. Stop people from double dipping by working off the books and still getting paid on the public dole.


Few examples....

- When I was in college I worked at a cash checking/welfare distribution/pawn broker business. Every Friday, a man would come in first thing in the morning and cash 1 or 2 $9000 checks made to cash. It was for payroll. We always tried to take care of him as he tipped $20. Many times he would be there before we opened and we would chat for a while. He said most of these employees were either illegal aliens or on welfare, so they worked off the books.

- I have had contractors in the past working on my home and they have asked for a portion of their job to be paid in cash. Some of them have said they need it to pay the guys working. Many of them mentioning that they make a ton of cash and then get every benefit available.

 

[joestein]

I am not sure if it is part of the same rule as the current 10,000 reporting requirement, but similar enough. Any deposit transaction over $600 would need to be reported. They say it is to cut down on tax cheats and bring in more revenue. It looks to be part of the current reconciliation infrastructure bill. For most Americans this would be every time they get a paid from their employer.

Perspective: The $600 IRS reporting requirement

What if I told you that every time you write a check, swipe your credit card, or deposit money into your bank account you had to report it to government?

www.newstribune.com

If you look up the actual proposal, it is only a total of inflows and outflows if the activity in your account exceeds $600/year. They want to make sure that someone who has a job that earns $50K is not depositing $300K into their account. If so, that might trigger an audit or a question.

Not that different from a refi I did a 9 or 10 years ago. They wanted details on every deposit over $1000 that was not from payroll.

 

[dioxide45]

If you look up the actual proposal, it is only a total of inflows and outflows if the activity in your account exceeds $600/year. They want to make sure that someone who has a job that earns $50K is not depositing $300K into their account. If so, that might trigger an audit or a question.

Not that different from a refi I did a 9 or 10 years ago. They wanted details on every deposit over $1000 that was not from payroll.

Seems like an unnecessary requirement. There are already reporting requirements for deposits greater than $10,000. Similar requirements are there if someone comes in and makes two deposits $9,999. I have no issue with a bank requiring this to underwrite a loan to verify income. After all this is a voluntary transaction. You don't have to go and ask for a loan or even buy a house. However, it is far different than the federal government requiring banks to report this information for almost every person in the United States.

I would also suspect that most people that are either illegal or getting paid off the table are "unbanked" and likely wouldn't get picked up in this type of reporting anyway.

 

[easyrider]

So true.

I is why I am in favor of an all digital economy. No more cash. Only electronic payments.

Move to Beijing, lol.

I like our cash economy but we never have much cash because we rarely use it. Most of our purchases are electronic via credit card or debit card. That being said it seems to be more about control in Beijing. I think without even realizing it most Americans would go cashless but if made to realize this it would become a political thing with no bipartisan support.

Bill

 

[emeryjre]

There is no way the IRS computers could handle the additional load of these types of reporting requirements. Many people that avoid taxes like it that way. And yes I do know people that make hefty incomes and do not pay their share of taxes. They are not relying on loopholes or fancy tax reporting. They just have income that is not categorized by 1099's, W-2's, or K1's They use banks and stay under the deposit limits. If they were to be audited, then there would be a problem for them. But the audit would have to be very extensive and match up their spending with their reported income. Not likely to happen in the current IRS. So they go blissfully on and other honest taxpayers subsidize them.

 

[MrockStar]

That is a proposal for banks to report any CASH transactions over $600.

I am talking about eliminating CASH all together. Only have electronic payments.

It would eliminate the underground economy. Stop people from double dipping by working off the books and still getting paid on the public dole.


Few examples....

- When I was in college I worked at a cash checking/welfare distribution/pawn broker business. Every Friday, a man would come in first thing in the morning and cash 1 or 2 $9000 checks made to cash. It was for payroll. We always tried to take care of him as he tipped $20. Many times he would be there before we opened and we would chat for a while. He said most of these employees were either illegal aliens or on welfare, so they worked off the books.

- I have had contractors in the past working on my home and they have asked for a portion of their job to be paid in cash. Some of them have said they need it to pay the guys working. Many of them mentioning that they make a ton of cash and then get every benefit available.

Nothing could ever go wrong/be abused with a cashless economy. On the plus side the entire 30 trillion of deficit could be erased with one keystroke. Sounds great !

 

[chapjim]

These are the same 18-20 year olds that are driving tanks, humvees, mraps, bradley's and handling the job. So I would go easy on your view of their abilities.

Those 18-20 year olds are well-trained, well-supervised, drug-tested, etc. Not quite the same 18-20 year olds at all.

 

[chapjim]

That is a proposal for banks to report any CASH transactions over $600.

I am talking about eliminating CASH all together. Only have electronic payments.

It would eliminate the underground economy. Stop people from double dipping by working off the books and still getting paid on the public dole.


Few examples....

- When I was in college I worked at a cash checking/welfare distribution/pawn broker business. Every Friday, a man would come in first thing in the morning and cash 1 or 2 $9000 checks made to cash. It was for payroll. We always tried to take care of him as he tipped $20. Many times he would be there before we opened and we would chat for a while. He said most of these employees were either illegal aliens or on welfare, so they worked off the books.

- I have had contractors in the past working on my home and they have asked for a portion of their job to be paid in cash. Some of them have said they need it to pay the guys working. Many of them mentioning that they make a ton of cash and then get every benefit available.

How about your friendly neighborhood drug dealer down on the corner? All cash, all the time.

 

[geist1223]

There are many Businesses that operate with cash payments. I remember years ago when I was paying for my Son's Rehearsal Dinner on Long Island. It was "X" price if paying by Check or Credit Card but "X-" if paying with Cash. My Son explained this was very common in the General New York area.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

So true.

I is why I am in favor of an all digital economy. No more cash. Only electronic payments.

The scammers / hackers will have found nirvana - with an all digital economy.

for some transactions I will stick to cash.

 

[PigsDad]

There are many Businesses that operate with cash payments. I remember years ago when I was paying for my Son's Rehearsal Dinner on Long Island. It was "X" price if paying by Check or Credit Card but "X-" if paying with Cash. My Son explained this was very common in the General New York area.

Happens everywhere. When I finished my basement, I was the general contractor and many sub-contractors gave me two prices, one for check and one for cash. The cash rate discount was in the 15-20% range.

Kurt

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

That is a proposal for banks to report any CASH transactions over $600.

I am talking about eliminating CASH all together. Only have electronic payments.

It would eliminate the underground economy. Stop people from double dipping by working off the books and still getting paid on the public dole.


Few examples....

- When I was in college I worked at a cash checking/welfare distribution/pawn broker business. Every Friday, a man would come in first thing in the morning and cash 1 or 2 $9000 checks made to cash. It was for payroll. We always tried to take care of him as he tipped $20. Many times he would be there before we opened and we would chat for a while. He said most of these employees were either illegal aliens or on welfare, so they worked off the books.

- I have had contractors in the past working on my home and they have asked for a portion of their job to be paid in cash. Some of them have said they need it to pay the guys working. Many of them mentioning that they make a ton of cash and then get every benefit available.

All you will do is create a non-cash black market. Probably silver based. An old silver quarter is worth about $4 today. Gold might also be used, for big transactions.

Not a gold bug, but remember, prohibition didn't stop alcohol consumption, invisible cash demand is never going to go away either. . .

 

[bogey21]

I is why I am in favor of an all digital economy. No more cash. Only electronic payments.

There are already countries close to this. Sweden, Finland and South Korea come to mind...

George

 

[Brett]

There are already countries close to this. Sweden, Finland and South Korea come to mind...

George

and Norway