Alleged Service Dogs at Desert Springs Villas

[vail]

I watched a person working a construction crew who had a dog with him.
The dogs job was to warm him when heavy equipment was backing up because he did not hear the beeping.
I assume he only needed the dog while he was working, but if ever there is a definition of a service dog, that was it.
But I doubt he needed to take the dog to dinner or accompany him when he was off work. It was fascinating to watch the dog warn him.

 

[dgf15215]

I'm the President (and chief bottle washer) of a sixteen-unit vacation condo. We've learned that we have virtually no control over pet documentation that supports the animals with any documentation at all that has written support. I have since learned that college dorms are now forced to allow students to bring pets with them, again with almost laughable justification that is impossible to argue with. Legislation needs to change, but until then it's a great risk to force the issue. A condo building in NYC lost a large lawsuit for failing to accept the ESA (Emotional Support Dog) involved. Absolutely ridiculous.

 

[geist1223]

ESA are not Service Animals.

 

[pedro47]

Through various articles and ADA rule readings over the years, I found the following interesting:

1. If a person needs a service animal, it needs to be with them continuously. That is, they can't go out to dinner and leave the dog on the deck or alone in the unit.
2. If a dog is causing a nuisance like barking (without reason/performing a service) or threatening people, the owner can be directed to remove it from the property - - even if it IS an actual service dog.

Last year at Marriott Newport Coast, when we were out on the lanai, the dog from the adjacent unit would bark at us continuously. It was really annoying. The owners weren't doing much, if anything, to quiet the dog. We called security and when they knocked on the neighbor's door, the dog started barking at the door ferociously. So, much for the ruse of pretending to have a service animal. They were gone within the hour and the next day Marriott did a deep cleaning of their unit. That has got to be an expensive lesson.

Thanks for sharing your posted thread.

 

[WBP]

Through various articles and ADA rule readings over the years, I found the following interesting:

1. If a person needs a service animal, it needs to be with them continuously. That is, they can't go out to dinner and leave the dog on the deck or alone in the unit.
2. If a dog is causing a nuisance like barking (without reason/performing a service) or threatening people, the owner can be directed to remove it from the property - - even if it IS an actual service dog.

Last year at Marriott Newport Coast, when we were out on the lanai, the dog from the adjacent unit would bark at us continuously. It was really annoying. The owners weren't doing much, if anything, to quiet the dog. We called security and when they knocked on the neighbor's door, the dog started barking at the door ferociously. So, much for the ruse of pretending to have a service animal. They were gone within the hour and the next day Marriott did a deep cleaning of their unit. That has got to be an expensive lesson.

Nice to see that MVC had the leadership acumen to do what they did to the fraudulent and extortionist guests at Newport Coast Villas. I wish the leadership at Desert Springs Villas had done the same, but, despite being notified, they didn’t, suggesting that it’s open hunting season at Desert Springs Villas for guest to bring their menagerie of pets with them, disguising them as Service Animals.

 

[jp10558]

Nice to see that MVC had the leadership acumen to do what they did to the fraudulent and extortionist guests at Newport Coast Villas. I wish the leadership at Desert Springs Villas had done the same, but, despite being notified, they didn’t, suggesting that it’s open hunting season at Desert Springs Villas for guest to bring their menagerie of pets with them, disguising them as Service Animals.

I imagine what will have to happen is someone gets injured by a "service animal" (cough PET) and sues the resort and the owner. Or laws have to change such that there's at least as much documentation as for the handicap parking passes and resorts, hotels, and other businesses can decide if they want to be pet friendly or not and advertise as such.

 

[dioxide45]

Until it impacts the people in power that can change the laws, don’t expect much to change. The main issue is ADA is a federal law and any kind of licensing would likely have to be done by the states. Right now this doesn’t seem to be a concern of federal law makers nor the interests that lobby them. Perhaps if enough people write to their representatives? Right now all that has really happened recently is some states passing “feel good” laws saying it is illegal to claim your pet to be a service animal for the purpose of abusing these services. These laws are useless with no teeth.

 

[VacationForever]

Until it impacts the people in power that can change the laws, don’t expect much to change. The main issue is ADA is a federal law and any kind of licensing would likely have to be done by the states. Right now this doesn’t seem to be a concern of federal law makers nor the interests that lobby them. Perhaps if enough people write to their representatives? Right now all that has really happened recently is some states passing “feel good” laws saying it is illegal to claim your pet to be a service animal for the purpose of abusing these services. These laws are useless with no teeth.

Yeah, like our friends who lie over and over again. These threats/laws have no teeth.

 

[michael49]

We are staying at Shadow Ridge right now. The other night I went out for a short walk and encountered not one, but two, pet owners walking their dogs. Neither dog was wearing a service vest and neither dog appeared to be a service animal.

 

[noreenkate]

Until it impacts the people in power that can change the laws, don’t expect much to change. The main issue is ADA is a federal law and any kind of licensing would likely have to be done by the states. Right now this doesn’t seem to be a concern of federal law makers nor the interests that lobby them. Perhaps if enough people write to their representatives? Right now all that has really happened recently is some states passing “feel good” laws saying it is illegal to claim your pet to be a service animal for the purpose of abusing these services. These laws are useless with no teeth.

The ADA has no teeth…

 

[geist1223]

We are staying at Shadow Ridge right now. The other night I went out for a short walk and encountered not one, but two, pet owners walking their dogs. Neither dog was wearing a service vest and neither dog appeared to be a service animal.

Service Animals are not required to wear a "Service Vest." These can be purchased on the Internet.

 

[WBP]

Service Animals are not required to wear a "Service Vest." These can be purchased on the Internet.

As a reminder, at the height of the Covid 19 Pandemic, one could purchase on eBay a bundle of four cards: 1 card that states that you have a medical diagnosis that prevents you from wearing a mask, 1 card that enables you to purchase/carry “medical marijuana,” 1 card that attests to your need to have an Emotional Support Animal or Service Dog, and yet another card that states that you have a medical diagnosis that prevents you from being vaccinated against Covid 19. I thought about purchasing the bundle of cards, but, it did not have a card that declared me as special, so, I opted not to buy the bundle of cards. I’ve forgotten how many thousands of these cards were sold on eBay.

The “Service Dog Vests” had pages and pages on eBay, in all of your favorite colors.

 

[davidvel]

As a reminder, at the height of the Covid 19 Pandemic, one could purchase on eBay a bundle of four cards: 1 card that states that you have a medical diagnosis that prevents you from wearing a mask, 1 card that enables you to purchase/carry “medical marijuana,” 1 card that attests to your need to have an Emotional Support Animal or Service Dog, and yet another card that states that you have a medical diagnosis that prevents you from being vaccinated against Covid 19. I thought about purchasing the bundle of cards, but, it did not have a card that declared me as special, so, I opted not to buy the bundle of cards. I’ve forgotten how many thousands of these cards were sold on eBay.

The “Service Dog Vests” had pages and pages on eBay, in all of your favorite colors.

Yeah, they also sell "sovereign citizen" cards and handbooks. Kooks and tinfoil hatters unite!

 

[easyrider]

Everyone with a handicapped placard are not handicapped. IMHO.
I have seen spouses and. Friends using handicapped placards.

I don't like the idea of people scamming the ada parking spaces but it hasn't ever been a problem for us. Neither has the service dog thing. I think three dogs is a bit much for a hotel or resort.

Bill

 

[easyrider]

I'm the President (and chief bottle washer) of a sixteen-unit vacation condo. We've learned that we have virtually no control over pet documentation that supports the animals with any documentation at all that has written support. I have since learned that college dorms are now forced to allow students to bring pets with them, again with almost laughable justification that is impossible to argue with. Legislation needs to change, but until then it's a great risk to force the issue. A condo building in NYC lost a large lawsuit for failing to accept the ESA (Emotional Support Dog) involved. Absolutely ridiculous.

One thing that a company can't do is charge for service animals to occupy the room which is total bs, imo.

Bill

 

[ljmiii]

The ADA has no teeth…

Its lawsuits brought against property owners for failing to provide adequate facilities and/or services that have teeth. Change usually happens as part of the settlement process…ADA just lays out the rules.

 

[noreenkate]

Its lawsuits brought against property owners for failing to provide adequate facilities and/or services that have teeth. Change usually happens as part of the settlement process…ADA just lays out the rules.

Ok so i disagree the remedy is most often injunctions that often do nothing to fix the problem- for example if a hotel/resorts Marriott in particular just settled this year for numerous ADA complaints - the civil penalty was 50k that’s a drop in the bucket for them. Especially since it required nothing but adding existing accessible rooms to online & rewards reservations.

 

[dioxide45]

I recall reading a news story about an attorney somewhere who would pay disabled to go to certain establishments and find violations of ADA. Like no ramps, not enough room to get around inside a store. The attorney would then send a threatening letter and get the establishment to pay a bunch of money in civil penalties.

 

[ljmiii]

Ok so i disagree the remedy is most often injunctions that often do nothing to fix the problem- for example if a hotel/resorts Marriott in particular just settled this year for numerous ADA complaints - the civil penalty was 50k that’s a drop in the bucket for them. Especially since it required nothing but adding existing accessible rooms to online & rewards reservations.

I agree insofar that injunctions and civil penalties are indeed usually meaningless. At least in New York, the action comes from juries willing to award tens or hundreds of millions of dollars to plaintiffs which in turn creates settlements that make businesses alter their physical layout and/or accommodation policies.

 

[noreenkate]

I agree insofar that injunctions and civil penalties are indeed usually meaningless. At least in New York, the action comes from juries willing to award tens or hundreds of millions of dollars to plaintiffs which in turn creates settlements that make businesses alter their physical layout and/or accommodation policies.

NYS may have there own laws but the ADA is federal rights protection and complaints go through a “mediation” process not jury trials which is why it at most will involve civil penalties and injunctions…

File a Complaint

The ADA provides an important tool to fight discrimination: filing a complaint with an appropriate federal agency. This page outlines the steps to do so.

www.ada.gov

This is why I said the ADA has no teeth- state laws on the other hand maybe different and offer other avenues. The post I originally responded to was about service dogs and the federal law, and I genuinely believe the federal laws are a good start but that there are misconceptions about what the ADA can and can't do, and (bringing it back to the original topic) the resorts are either not training their personal properly or just really do not care if there are dogs.

We spent Thanksgiving at Ocean Pointe- waiting for the only working elevator at Kingfish we were growled at by a small fluffy white dog riding on a luggage cart, no luggage, no crate just an unleashed dog…There is no way the employee at the desk didn't see it or hear it. Here is the thing that irks me people traveling with any dog need to remember, service dogs need to be well behaved or they receive no protections. The resorts can enforce it but choose not to.

 

[Pompey Family]

One thing that a company can't do is charge for service animals to occupy the room which is total bs, imo.

Bill

Why is it BS? Would you suggest that all disabled people pay a premium to occupy a room? A service dog is an aid to assist someone with their disability, for most people their presence is non negotiable, they need that dog like some people need a wheelchair or other disability aid. I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't advocate charging people extra to have their wheelchair with them.

 

[jp10558]

I recall reading a news story about an attorney somewhere who would pay disabled to go to certain establishments and find violations of ADA. Like no ramps, not enough room to get around inside a store. The attorney would then send a threatening letter and get the establishment to pay a bunch of money in civil penalties.

Somehow I feel like I probably should think this is sleezy, but actually I think - well, if the establishments were up to code, the lawyer could pay as many people to wander around as he wanted and there would not be a problem. Especially where the enforcement is essentially outsourced to citizens complaining - I guess we kind of want this stuff happening so that it's at least addressed a little before it's "an emergency" for some poor person who needs access vs a paid "trial run".

 

[clifffaith]

I recall reading a news story about an attorney somewhere who would pay disabled to go to certain establishments and find violations of ADA. Like no ramps, not enough room to get around inside a store. The attorney would then send a threatening letter and get the establishment to pay a bunch of money in civil penalties.

Trevor Law Group in Los Angeles. They’d send people into mom and pop operations and sue because a bathroom mirror was mounted too high for a person in a wheelchair to use and frivolous stuff like this. As I recall the lawsuits were so fast and furious that there was a huge backlash and a move to get them disbarred. Maybe 12-15 years ago.

 

[easyrider]

Why is it BS? Would you suggest that all disabled people pay a premium to occupy a room? A service dog is an aid to assist someone with their disability, for most people their presence is non negotiable, they need that dog like some people need a wheelchair or other disability aid. I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't advocate charging people extra to have their wheelchair with them.

I never said the disabled person should pay a premium to use the room with a service animal. My meaning is that the business needs to be compensated for allowing the service dog especially when the regulation is abused at the expense of the business. Being that it's a Federal regulation without the Fed paying anything , the guest with the dog not paying anything and the local municipality not paying for anything, there should be a tax credit at the very least for businesses to accommodate service animals but there isn't. So what the business has to do is charge every guest more keeping in mind that there is a point where the rate could be too high.

Interesting is those people with documented medically necessary service animals are offered a tax write off while the business that is subject to litigation if they don't comply with the regulation isn't.

Bill

 

[daviator]

I never said the disabled person should pay a premium to use the room with a service animal. My meaning is that the business needs to be compensated for allowing the service dog especially when the regulation is abused at the expense of the business. Being that it's a Federal regulation without the Fed paying anything , the guest with the dog not paying anything and the local municipality not paying for anything, there should be a tax credit at the very least for businesses to accommodate service animals but there isn't. So what the business has to do is charge every guest more keeping in mind that there is a point where the rate could be too high.

Interesting is those people with documented medically necessary service animals are offered a tax write off while the business that is subject to litigation if they don't comply with the regulation isn't.

Bill

This isn’t about compensating anybody for anything. It’s about acknowledging that businesses that hold out accommodations to the public need to make those accommodations reasonably accessible to all members of the public, including those with disabilities.

The cost of accommodating service animals is essentially zero. It’s a reasonable accommodation that allows someone with a service animal to use your property where they would otherwise be unable to do so. The guest remains responsible for damage just as every guest is. Where is the cost to accommodate service animals? There is no cost. (If a property isn’t vacuuming and thoroughly cleaning every room between guests, regardless whether or not there was a service animal there, that’s not a property I want to stay in.)