[2017] Just Joined Marriott Vacation Club - Was it a good choice?

[GoldenVIKE]

The problem with financing is the high interest rates you pay for Marriott financing. ON a $40,000 loan at 12.5%, you will pay almost $7,200 in interest. Are the financing incentives worth that much money?

We got 8.99% due to credit score over 800 and 10-yr term. But your point is valid regardless.

 

[Fasttr]

We got 8.99% due to credit score over 800 and 10-yr term. But your point is valid regardless.

A few questions about the two batches of 4000 incentive points.

• Are they single Use Year points (unable to be banked, borrowed and transferred?)
• Do you get the first batch right away?
• Do you get the second batch 18 months after closing?
• Do you know approximate start and end dates of the incentive points (are they calendar year or run on a non calendar year like your purchased points will)?
• Are you sure you will have a need/be able to use the incentive points during their Use Year windows.

Just prodding you to think through the true value of those incentives. If you get use from them, great. If not, it makes their value less shiny.

 

[GoldenVIKE]

On a side note -- I just want to say I am impressed by the 'brain power' revealed on this post.

Question remains -- is there a valid reason to purchase Marriott direct if there are resale points available for purchase?

IMHO based on the wonderful free education provided by this group, no. In my initial analysis I felt that paying 2-15% extra up front to go direct through Marriott was worth it just for convenience and to have a contact within the sales team I could go to for advice. Since then I've learned that (a) while the recurring points have some special value due to benefits associated with various membership levels, the "add on" points are really only worth what it'd cost to rent them ($0.60 or so). Also, a broker has confirmed the level of bid that can typically be expected to pass FROR. In short, I overstated the value of buying through Marriott and understated the value of buying resale. Adjusting for the latest information within the model I had originally created puts the discount for buying resale is 30-45% net of all of the various costs and benefits of each option. I'll feel bad rescinding, in particular regarding the salesperson who seems like a good guy and did a very nice job. But at the end of the day, this TUG group has convinced me to rescind our MVCI package to do more research before we ultimately decide to buy a TS or not.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

*swish*

 

[GregT]

You're right this is the key variable in the value calculations. The website isn't letting me upload an Excel file, does that seem normal? Below I've pasted it. I've expanded the number of searches since the original 50. I've omitted the first two as outliers and in some examples have omitted all Ritz properties since they likely aren't too easy to get for 4,000 pt level. The last figure in each row below is the "value per point". Sorry for the awkward pasting of a spreadsheet, but hopefully you get the gist...

Property Location Time Nights Unit Points Comp1 Straight
Ritz-Carlton Tahoe March Sunday-Friday (5) 2-bd Apartment 3375 14176 $4.20
Ritz-Carlton Tahoe March Sunday-Friday (5) 3-bd Apartment 4625 19217 $4.16
Ritz-Carlton St Thomas March Sunday-Friday (5) 2-bd Apartment 3500 9500 $2.71
Ritz-Carlton Tahoe July/Early August Week 2-bd Apartment 5175 12000 $2.32
Ritz-Carlton St Thomas Early/Mid December Week 2-bd Apartment 3900 8657 $2.22
Ritz-Carlton Tahoe July Sunday-Friday (5) 2-bd Apartment 2625 5500 $2.10
Mountain Valley Lodge Breck Late March Sunday-Friday (5) 1-bd Villa 1125 2307 $2.05
Ritz-Carlton Vail Most of Jan-March Week 2-bd Apartment 7725 15701 $2.03
Ocean Club Aruba March Sunday-Friday (5) 1-bd Oceanview 1875 3798 $2.03
Ritz-Carlton Vail June Sunday-Friday (5) 3-bd 2625 4968 $1.89
Ocean Club Aruba March Week 1-bd Oceanview 2975 5424 $1.82
Grand Residences Tahoe Mid June Sunday-Friday (5) 1-bd Villa 675 1225 $1.81
Frenchman's Cove St. Thomas July Sunday-Friday (5) 3-bd Villa 2625 4517 $1.72
Frenchman's Cove St. Thomas August Sunday-Friday (5) 3-bd Villa 2625 4517 $1.72
Maui Ocean Club Hawaii March Week 1-bd Islandview 2925 4994 $1.71
Frenchman's Cove St. Thomas December Sunday-Friday (5) 3-bd Villa 2625 4460 $1.70
Surf Club Aruba December Week 1-bd Oceanside 2350 3968 $1.69
Mountain Valley Lodge Breck Mid March Sunday-Friday (5) 1-bd Villa 1375 2307 $1.68
Frenchman's Cove St. Thomas August Sunday-Friday (5) 2-bd Villa 1875 3116 $1.66
Frenchman's Cove St Thomas February Week 2-bd Apartment 4125 6837.6 $1.66
Grand Residences Tahoe Mid June Sunday-Friday (5) 2-bd Villa 1000 1641 $1.64
Ko Olina Hawaii April Week 2-bd Mountainview 4050 6254 $1.54
Frenchman's Cove St. Thomas July Week 3-bd Villa 4125 6267 $1.52
Marriott St Kitts Early/Mid December Week 2-bd Apartment 2975 4500 $1.51
Maui Ocean Club MM&L Hawaii March Sunday-Friday (5) 1-bd Gardenview 2250 3385 $1.50
Frenchman's Cove St. Thomas May Week 2-bd Villa 2875 4324 $1.50
Maui Ocean Club Hawaii July Week 1-bd Gardenview 3550 5313 $1.50
Mtn Valley Lodge Breck December Week Studio 1675 2440 $1.46
Streamside-Evergreen Vail June Sunday-Friday (5) 2-bd 750 1090 $1.45
Ocean Club Aruba December Week 1-bd Oceanview 2350 3385 $1.44
Surf Club Aruba December Week 1-bd Oceanview 2350 3355 $1.43
Surf Club Aruba June Week Studio 1600 2282 $1.43
Frenchman's Cove St. Thomas August Week 2-bd Villa 2975 4142 $1.39
Ko Olina Hawaii April Week 1-bd Mountainview 2925 4060 $1.39
Ocean Club Aruba December Week 2-bd Oceanview 3500 4842 $1.38
Mtn Valley Lodge Breck December Week 1-bd Apartment 2225 3025 $1.36
Ko Olina Hawaii April Week 2-bd Oceanview 4925 6653 $1.35
Kauai Beach Club Hawaii December Week 1-bd Ocean front 3325 4438 $1.33
Surf Club Aruba December Week 2-bd Oceanside 3500 4620 $1.32
Kauai Beach Club Hawaii March Week Studio 2700 3564 $1.32
Custom House Boston Labor Day Week Week 1-bd Villa 3175 4180 $1.32
Waiohai Beach Club Hawaii May Week 2-bd Islandview 4225 5549 $1.31
Maui Ocean Club Hawaii July Week 1-bd Oceanview 4475 5867 $1.31
Maui Ocean Club Hawaii December Week 1-bd Ocean Front 4125 5390 $1.31
Custom House Boston June Week 1-bd Villa 3175 4146 $1.31
Kauai Beach Club Hawaii December Week 1-bd Oceanview 2750 3564 $1.30
Surf Club Aruba December Week 2-bd Oceanview 3500 4505 $1.29
Frenchman's Cove St. Thomas September Week 2-bd Villa 2350 3020 $1.29
Maui Ocean Club MM&L Hawaii March Sunday-Friday (5) 1-bd Oceanview 2875 3663 $1.27
Maui Ocean Club Hawaii November Week 1-bd Ocean Front 4125 5075 $1.23
Maui Ocean Club Hawaii November Week 1-bd Oceanview 3900 4675 $1.20
Waiohai Beach Club Hawaii May Week 2-bd Oceanview 5025 5946 $1.18
Waiohai Beach Club Hawaii March Week 2-bd Islandview 4850 5549 $1.14
Ocean Club Aruba December Week 2-bd Oceanfront 4525 5149 $1.14
Marriott Newport Coast SoCal December Sunday-Friday (5) 2-bd Apartment 1500 1644 $1.10
Kauai Lagoons Hawaii May Week 2-bd Islandview 4125 4520 $1.10
Kauai Lagoons Hawaii May Week 3-bd Islandview 4875 5230 $1.07
Kauai Lagoons Hawaii November Week 3-bd Islandview 4875 5230 $1.07
Grand Residences Tahoe July/Early August Week 2-bd Apartment 4225 4526 $1.07
Barony Beach Club Hilton Head April Week 2-bd Garden View 2900 3095 $1.07
Ritz-Carlton San Fran October Week 1-bd 5225 5534 $1.06
Streamside-Evergreen Vail December Sunday-Friday (5) 2-bd 1625 1717 $1.06
Grand Residences Tahoe July/Early August Week 1-bd Apartment 2950 3044 $1.03
Maui Ocean Club Hawaii September Week 1-bd Oceanview 3900 3995 $1.02
Waiohai Beach Club Hawaii March Week 2-bd Oceanview 5875 5946 $1.01
Kauai Lagoons Hawaii November Week 2-bd Ocean Front 6075 5946 $0.98
Kauai Lagoons Hawaii May Week 2-bd Oceanview 5100 4915 $0.96
Kauai Lagoons Hawaii May Week 3-bd Oceanview 5850 5630 $0.96
Kauai Lagoons Hawaii November Week 3-bd Oceanview 5850 5630 $0.96
Grand Residences Tahoe June Week 2-bd Apartment 3225 3067 $0.95
Ritz-Carlton Vail Early/Mid December Week 2-bd Apartment 6500 6049 $0.93
Mayflower D.C. June Week Hotel room 3275 3014 $0.92
Playa Andaluza Spain March Week 2-bd Garden View 1925 1694 $0.88
Barony Beach Club Hilton Head April Week 2-bd Ocean Front 4000 3518 $0.88
d'Ile France June Week 2-bd Apartment 2700 2356 $0.87
Grand Residences Tahoe June Week 1-bd Apartment 2400 2067 $0.86
Playa Andaluza Spain March Week 3-bd Garden View 2450 2023 $0.83
Grand Chateau Vegas April Week Room 1600 1167 $0.73
Grand Chateau Vegas New Years Week Week Room 2225 1528 $0.69
Grand Residences Tahoe June Sunday-Friday (5) 1-bd Apartment 1500 975 $0.65
Grand Chateau Vegas April Week 2-bd Apartment 3675 2356 $0.64
Grand Chateau Vegas New Years Week Week 2-bd Apartment 4625 2917 $0.63
Grand Residences Tahoe June Sunday-Friday (5) 2-bd Apartment 2250 1419 $0.63

That's an impressive amount of work -- love the research!

I encourage you to enjoy your 4,000 points, to also figure out how to rent points to further leverage your base package, to learn the properties and locations that you love, and to contemplate one day a traditional Marriott week to supplement your ownership.

Then when you are hitting on all cyclinders, we'll talk about HGVC and Starwood too. There's gold in those hills too.

Welcome to TUG!

Best,

Greg

 

[Saintsfanfl]

As a big fan of Marriott and their properties, I do hope you continue in your quest and settle on some type of timeshare ownership and enjoy their properties. Of course you can rent and not own but owning at some level "feels" good.

 

[GoldenVIKE]

As a big fan of Marriott and their properties, I do hope you continue in your quest and settle on some type of timeshare ownership and enjoy their properties. Of course you can rent and not own but owning at some level "feels" good.

Totally agree! I like the idea of someday having some DC points for ease, variety, and flexibility, plus perhaps a fixed week at a property we really like. But whatever we do we'll make sure to shop around a little to ensure that we're getting at least a reasonably good deal on it!

 

[dioxide45]

I'll feel bad rescinding, in particular regarding the salesperson who seems like a good guy and did a very nice job. But at the end of the day, this TUG group has convinced me to rescind our MVCI package to do more research before we ultimately decide to buy a TS or not.

No need to feel bad. Don't bring emotion in to the decision and don't talk to or take any calls from the sale person after you send your rescission letter. Their goal is to retain the sale, don't let emotion and their additional pitches and potential untruths sway you.

 

[GregT]

I'll feel bad rescinding, in particular regarding the salesperson who seems like a good guy and did a very nice job. But at the end of the day, this TUG group has convinced me to rescind our MVCI package to do more research before we ultimately decide to buy a TS or not.

GoldenVIKE,

I'm so sorry -- I didn't realize you were still in recission period, I thought it was a done deal. I need to read more carefully Please do rescind -- save the money -- you can still get all the things that we are talking about here by buying resale. Thx Dioxide for highlighting this.

I am highly confident you will get the positive aspects we've highlighted -- just please give yourself a little more time. eBay has many point packages available and they are going for a song -- it's really a shame. But it's good for those who are studying it carefully.

Please let us know what you decide.

Best,

Greg

 

[JIMinNC]

It seems that time and time again, the only way to financially justify a DC developer point purchase is to compare it to prices on Marriott.com. That is what the sales folk do in a presentation, at least in the old days of weeks presentations. We would often see how prepaying for our vacation beat out Marriott.com rates. I do agree that if you are only willing to book on Marriott.com then buying DC points is going to save you money.

I simply don't understand the hesitance of person to person rental transactions. Tens of thousands of these things happen every year. VRBO, Home Away, Redweek. Very few people are out there to rip you off The true scam artists have much easier ways to take your money. The vast majority of renters, say more than 99.9% are just trying to recoup costs and make some profit. Sure, a little due diligence is needed and you may want to buy travel insurance in the event you need to cancel, but you still come out way ahead than if you had bought on Marriott.com. Plus we have to keep Joe in business

You are correct that for those who are comfortable with booking a person-to-person rental, comparing ownership to the prices on Marriott.com is meaningless. In fact, even many resale purchases can be hard to justify if the comparison is the prices you can get on Redweek. I have just never been comfortable with those kinds of transactions. That is why I always use regular online booking prices - not because that makes it easier to justify the ownership, but because that is the only yardstick that is relevant to the way that WE would book travel.

In my case it's just a preference to have the security of a confirmation number in my own name and not to have a middleman. If I make a lodging reservation using Marriott.com, Hilton.com, etc. and there is a problem when I check-in, I've got a multi-billion-dollar corporation that has an obligation and the potential resources to make it right. If instead, I rent it from Aunt Maude in Peoria whom I have never met and something goes wrong, my recourse is to Aunt Maude who probably can't do anything for me. Aunt Maude may not even be trying to scam me; maybe she just screwed something up when she was making the reservation.

Frankly, while I often use Orbitz, Expedia, or other such online travel sites to shop for hotels when I need a hotel for business or other trips where a timeshare won't work, I will usually go to the actual hotel company site to actually make the booking, because 99% of the time, I've found the rates to be identical to the general travel websites (except maybe for the prepaid rates, which I never use). That way, I have a confirmation in my name from the exact hotel company I'm staying with. I will always remember a time about 10 or 15 years ago when I was waiting in line to check-in at a hotel, and the person in front of me had used one of the online travel sites to book his reservation. The hotel didn't have the reservation, even though he had a confirmation from whichever travel site he used. The hotel desk clerk told him he had to take the issue up with the company who made the reservation. The hotel couldn't help him. After witnessing that, I promised myself I would always book direct whenever possible.

Another example. My son is in college at Georgia Tech and used AirBNB for lodging to go with a friend to the TaxSlayer Bowl in Jacksonville back in late December. They made two bookings, only to have both of them cancelled within 24 hours of booking by AirBNB because the renter had already rented the room elsewhere, but not removed the AirBNB ad. On the third try, they finally got one that stuck. While that's an extreme example, it is an example of why I have concerns about dealing with individuals who are not professionals in the lodging business with the resources to stand behind their bookings. As I said in my example of Aunt Maude, it doesn't have to be fraud, it can be an honest mistake by an amateur that causes you pain on check-in.

Sometimes it's not all about getting the cheapest price. Peace of mind is worth something. I think I would have difficulty sleeping at night in the months leading up to check-in if I made a person-to-person booking. The issue is the need to do the transaction and pay months before check-in, and wondering for all those months if everything will be OK at check-in. I guess it's not a specific discomfort with dealing with a stranger, per se, because I am willing to rent DC points to supplement my owned points (and have done so once for a small amount). But with point rentals, the window of exposure between payment and getting the points into your account can only be a matter of a few hours, or even minutes. And once the points are in my account, they are mine, and I can make my own reservation. But with an owner rental of a week, I would have to deal with the risk exposure for months, all the way until check-in.

Honestly though, while we have to compare ownership to booking on Marriott.com to create an apples-to-apples comparison for us, in actual practice, I doubt I would ever be willing to pay the rental rates needed to book a MVC condo on Marriott.com. Even in Hilton Head, they can top $500/night for a 2BR at Barony or GO, and other more exotic locations like Maui can easily top that by a wide margin in high seasons (I think over $1000/night for a 2BR OF at MOC in high season). The reality is, if we didn't own, we would have to make do with a hotel room given our lack of comfort with P2P rentals. So the REAL benefit of ownership is getting the larger units for a more affordable cost than we could book elsewhere.

 

[GoldenVIKE]

You are correct that for those who are comfortable with booking a person-to-person rental, comparing ownership to the prices on Marriott.com is meaningless. In fact, even many resale purchases can be hard to justify if the comparison is the prices you can get on Redweek. I have just never been comfortable with those kinds of transactions. That is why I always use regular online booking prices - not because that makes it easier to justify the ownership, but because that is the only yardstick that is relevant to the way that WE would book travel.

In my case it's just a preference to have the security of a confirmation number in my own name and not to have a middleman. If I make a lodging reservation using Marriott.com, Hilton.com, etc. and there is a problem when I check-in, I've got a multi-billion-dollar corporation that has an obligation and the potential resources to make it right. If instead, I rent it from Aunt Maude in Peoria whom I have never met and something goes wrong, my recourse is to Aunt Maude who probably can't do anything for me. Aunt Maude may not even be trying to scam me; maybe she just screwed something up when she was making the reservation.

Frankly, while I often use Orbitz, Expedia, or other such online travel sites to shop for hotels when I need a hotel for business or other trips where a timeshare won't work, I will usually go to the actual hotel company site to actually make the booking, because 99% of the time, I've found the rates to be identical to the general travel websites (except maybe for the prepaid rates, which I never use). That way, I have a confirmation in my name from the exact hotel company I'm staying with. I will always remember a time about 10 or 15 years ago when I was waiting in line to check-in at a hotel, and the person in front of me had used one of the online travel sites to book his reservation. The hotel didn't have the reservation, even though he had a confirmation from whichever travel site he used. The hotel desk clerk told him he had to take the issue up with the company who made the reservation. The hotel couldn't help him. After witnessing that, I promised myself I would always book direct whenever possible.

Another example. My son is in college at Georgia Tech and used AirBNB for lodging to go with a friend to the TaxSlayer Bowl in Jacksonville back in late December. They made two bookings, only to have both of them cancelled within 24 hours of booking by AirBNB because the renter had already rented the room elsewhere, but not removed the AirBNB ad. On the third try, they finally got one that stuck. While that's an extreme example, it is an example of why I have concerns about dealing with individuals who are not professionals in the lodging business with the resources to stand behind their bookings. As I said in my example of Aunt Maude, it doesn't have to be fraud, it can be an honest mistake by an amateur that causes you pain on check-in.

Sometimes it's not all about getting the cheapest price. Peace of mind is worth something. I think I would have difficulty sleeping at night in the months leading up to check-in if I made a person-to-person booking. The issue is the need to do the transaction and pay months before check-in, and wondering for all those months if everything will be OK at check-in. I guess it's not a specific discomfort with dealing with a stranger, per se, because I am willing to rent DC points to supplement my owned points (and have done so once for a small amount). But with point rentals, the window of exposure between payment and getting the points into your account can only be a matter of a few hours, or even minutes. And once the points are in my account, they are mine, and I can make my own reservation. But with an owner rental of a week, I would have to deal with the risk exposure for months, all the way until check-in.

Honestly though, while we have to compare ownership to booking on Marriott.com to create an apples-to-apples comparison for us, in actual practice, I doubt I would ever be willing to pay the rental rates needed to book a MVC condo on Marriott.com. Even in Hilton Head, they can top $500/night for a 2BR at Barony or GO, and other more exotic locations like Maui can easily top that by a wide margin in high seasons (I think over $1000/night for a 2BR OF at MOC in high season). The reality is, if we didn't own, we would have to make do with a hotel room given our lack of comfort with P2P rentals. So the REAL benefit of ownership is getting the larger units for a more affordable cost than we could book elsewhere.

Very well said, I'm with you 100% on this. Your trepidation about P2P is multiplied for us who have multiple young kids and sometimes family traveling too. Imagine flying 6 people down to some island and then finding out you have no room! I'm glad to hear that renting points is as fast and seamless as it is. It sounds like a very nice option. We NEED 2/3 bedroom places, so while the direction I'm leaning seems to be changing by the hour lately, at this point perhaps we'll go with a limited resale DC package, and augment through renting points, until we have some experience under our belt, and then we can either buy more points or buy a week somewhere. Ask me again tomorrow and I'll have a different plan

 

[jme]

All,

Wow, this is an interesting thread -- alot of information going on here.

To the OP -- welcome to TUG and to Marriott, I believe both will enrich your life immensely as timeshares have changed the way I vacation and the family time is terrific. We found timeshares when my kids were young (5,3,1) and we've taken over 60 vacations/long weekends over the last 10 years, the vast majority with timeshares. We've been many places, with many more to go, and the memories are priceless. It sounds like you are a quantitative person and I think you will come to enjoy maximizing the opportunities presented by Marriott (and perhaps one day, other timeshare systems).

Your 4,000 points are an excellent base from which to book future vacations, and renting points from others allows you to leverage your base significantly. You don't need to buy more points, and once you find a favorite property (Grande Ocean, Maui Ocean Club, Ko Olina, Aruba Ocean Club), you may find you should buy a full week cheaply and inexpensively and use your points to extend those trips. Fasttr did this, starting with points, and then buying (at least) one week at Grande Ocean.

I like MoxJo's strategy of buying more than you can personally use, and then renting the extra's to pay the MFs for everything. I own far more of these things than I use, but I like the interplay of the different systems/fixed weeks/high quality trading weeks where I can do most things I want. This does assume that your mind enjoys the game of maximizing the opportunities, but your quantitative approach does suggest it. I don't view my timeshares as an investment -- other than an investment in my family, which is well worth that.

Good luck with this purchase, and enjoy your time here on TUG. There is a wealth of wisdom that goes far beyond timeshares here, as you interact with strangers who have life experiences and wisdom that can be invaluable. I credit JME with a fabulous post on the Time Value of Money -- and timeshares. I included the link below (I couldn't embed?) -- and it has pearls of wisdom that are important for us, especially when we have young children.

[ 2014 ] Buy a Grande Ocean week....or just keep renting??

Welcome again, and please ask any and all questions!
Best, Greg

great points....and I'll try to dig up that old post......

 

[jme]

All,

Wow, this is an interesting thread -- alot of information going on here.

To the OP -- welcome to TUG and to Marriott, I believe both will enrich your life immensely as timeshares have changed the way I vacation and the family time is terrific. We found timeshares when my kids were young (5,3,1) and we've taken over 60 vacations/long weekends over the last 10 years, the vast majority with timeshares. We've been many places, with many more to go, and the memories are priceless. It sounds like you are a quantitative person and I think you will come to enjoy maximizing the opportunities presented by Marriott (and perhaps one day, other timeshare systems).

Your 4,000 points are an excellent base from which to book future vacations, and renting points from others allows you to leverage your base significantly. You don't need to buy more points, and once you find a favorite property (Grande Ocean, Maui Ocean Club, Ko Olina, Aruba Ocean Club), you may find you should buy a full week cheaply and inexpensively and use your points to extend those trips. Fasttr did this, starting with points, and then buying (at least) one week at Grande Ocean.

I like MoxJo's strategy of buying more than you can personally use, and then renting the extra's to pay the MFs for everything. I own far more of these things than I use, but I like the interplay of the different systems/fixed weeks/high quality trading weeks where I can do most things I want. This does assume that your mind enjoys the game of maximizing the opportunities, but your quantitative approach does suggest it. I don't view my timeshares as an investment -- other than an investment in my family, which is well worth that.

Good luck with this purchase, and enjoy your time here on TUG. There is a wealth of wisdom that goes far beyond timeshares here, as you interact with strangers who have life experiences and wisdom that can be invaluable. I credit JME with a fabulous post on the Time Value of Money -- and timeshares. I included the link below (I couldn't embed?) -- and it has pearls of wisdom that are important for us, especially when we have young children.

[ 2014 ] Buy a Grande Ocean week....or just keep renting??

Welcome again, and please ask any and all questions!

Best,

Greg

Greg, thank you sincerely.

Per your last paragraph above, I found that old thread and my post to which you were alluding,
and I appreciate your remembering it. I've linked to it below. It was a a thread about
investing money independently as opposed to buying/financing timeshares, etc, and what
money could do over time---a somewhat similar conversation
regarding the financial analyses and "what to do and how to do it" contained in the current thread,
and it similarly evoked thoughts about "investments".

After re-reading my thoughts back in August of 2014, I can only say that for me, it's truer today than ever before. My kids are out on their own, but I see clearer than ever that the times, i.e. "moments in time", we shared together, especially on vacations courtesy of Marriott, were worth far more in this life than anything I could ever buy, realize through investment gain (instead of vacations), or obtain by any other method.

"Priceless" would be the trite old cliche, but I cannot come up with a better word or description than that. And that word means simply that there is no sum of money, regardless of the amount, that could ever begin to approach the value of something obtained. What would anyone take as a substitute for precious moments with their children? Say, for example a moment that the whole family remembers and subsequently bursts into laughter----something spontaneous that happened on vacation---- or maybe another completely different moment that instead causes everyone to well up and shed tears as they retell it. Could have been a special day for everyone, or maybe just a brief moment shared by only two, but regardless, it became seared into the memories and into the hearts. I have many of those, but then I'm a sentimental guy, and I hold onto such things tenaciously. Family vacations offered more opportunity for those moments, hence the value.

The more wonderful memories we have, the richer our lives become. As we get older, maybe memories will be all we have to cling to.
Timesharing has facilitated that to a significant degree. Growing up, I didn't have a lot of travel memories involving family, so I was determined to change that.

So contrary to my parents' practices, I decided to opt for planned vacations---- to "go and do"---- and that is, together as a family,
and to repeat often.
I might have been going against the old sage advice, but my motto has always been "Don't ever underestimate the QUANTITY of time together", as many have always touted simply the quality of time together. I never bought into that.
Both are important, but I hold quantity in very high regard. Timesharing allowed for the quantity, and luckily also added the quality. When all is said and done, it doesn't really matter how anyone does it, though, it's just important to do it. If it's affordable and it appeals to anyone, go for it. We have our way and it worked out well.

Anyway, here it is......my thoughts as expressed in August of 2014 in the following thread, specifically post #23:
http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?...eek-or-just-keep-renting.216143/#post-1667332

To this day, Greg, I sincerely appreciate your reply immediately following that post.... I think it must have rung true for you too.
My hope back then (and still is now) was that maybe I could inspire someone out there to take a chance on putting their finger down on a calendar, or on a map, and say, "OK, this will be the day or place we will be going to spend time together", and then devising a method whereby they could do it....... then and again, and again.

Looking back on how we did it, I have no regrets. My wife says the same over and over in many different ways, and it's obvious that everything we have done, and everything we have seen "all together as a family", has not only been remembered but cherished. Nothing else would have been as valuable a substitute. As a matter of fact, it probably would never have happened at all. To this day the children thank me often for "whatever it was" that caused that little spark in the "Aha moment" two decades ago
when I suddenly realized "Yes, we can do this".
It literally changed our lives, and set up the bank into which we have repeatedly placed memory upon special memory.

There is no family conversation so precious as the one which begins, "Remember when....."

Like I said in that old post, "there are investments and there are investments".

 

[Quilter]

Is it you SeaDoc?:

Gotta say this thread brought SeaDoc to my mind. Seems a while since I've seen a post from him.

 

[Quilter]

That said, would someone with ulterior motives post under their real name?

Who knows it's real?

TUG sure would be a fine place for a new salesperson to cut their teeth on all the possible debates they'll be getting during a sales presentation. Every angled covered in just one thread.

 

[MOXJO7282]

Very well said, I'm with you 100% on this. Your trepidation about P2P is multiplied for us who have multiple young kids and sometimes family traveling too. Imagine flying 6 people down to some island and then finding out you have no room! I'm glad to hear that renting points is as fast and seamless as it is. It sounds like a very nice option. We NEED 2/3 bedroom places, so while the direction I'm leaning seems to be changing by the hour lately, at this point perhaps we'll go with a limited resale DC package, and augment through renting points, until we have some experience under our belt, and then we can either buy more points or buy a week somewhere. Ask me again tomorrow and I'll have a different plan

You're overly concerned about the P2P renting as there are many reputable owners that would provide you ample proof they are legit that you can confirm very easily. I'm not saying it because I'm one of them it's just a fact.

I do always say either buy more than one and rent the extra for an ROI or don't buy any and just rent from owners like me because there are just so many owners renting it is very easy to find a reputable owner and a good price so there really isn't a need to lay out big bucks to own something yourself.

The only reason to own if your not going to rent for an ROI IMHO is because you just have to go to Maui during President's week or something else high end during prime time. I use that example because that is what I became obsessed with and had to experience. Renting high end during prime time is the biggest fish of them all and cost a big premium to rent from a 3rd party or Marriott so that it what compelled me to own so I could save the big premium.

I believe this is true to this day in my experience so if you were to say I NEED Aruba during spring break and plan on going every year at that time that is where I would say you're better off buying a resale unit.

Also I am a weeks owner but did sign up for the DC basically for a bunch of points and the free 4 night HHI encore stay and I tried to rent off of VPE and had great success one time but then the other 2 times couldn't find someone who had points available.

Am I wrong and renting excess points is successful 90% of the time or is it 50/50?

 

[davidvel]

Who knows it's real?

TUG sure would be a fine place for a new salesperson to cut their teeth on all the possible debates they'll be getting during a sales presentation. Every angled covered in just one thread.

Or put another way, how many people use their full name in their username on TUG?

 

[Quilter]

All,

Wow, this is an interesting thread -- alot of information going on here.

To the OP -- welcome to TUG and to Marriott, I believe both will enrich your life immensely as timeshares have changed the way I vacation and the family time is terrific. We found timeshares when my kids were young (5,3,1) and we've taken over 60 vacations/long weekends over the last 10 years, the vast majority with timeshares. We've been many places, with many more to go, and the memories are priceless. It sounds like you are a quantitative person and I think you will come to enjoy maximizing the opportunities presented by Marriott (and perhaps one day, other timeshare systems).

Your 4,000 points are an excellent base from which to book future vacations, and renting points from others allows you to leverage your base significantly. You don't need to buy more points, and once you find a favorite property (Grande Ocean, Maui Ocean Club, Ko Olina, Aruba Ocean Club), you may find you should buy a full week cheaply and inexpensively and use your points to extend those trips. Fasttr did this, starting with points, and then buying (at least) one week at Grande Ocean.

I like MoxJo's strategy of buying more than you can personally use, and then renting the extra's to pay the MFs for everything. I own far more of these things than I use, but I like the interplay of the different systems/fixed weeks/high quality trading weeks where I can do most things I want. This does assume that your mind enjoys the game of maximizing the opportunities, but your quantitative approach does suggest it. I don't view my timeshares as an investment -- other than an investment in my family, which is well worth that.

Good luck with this purchase, and enjoy your time here on TUG. There is a wealth of wisdom that goes far beyond timeshares here, as you interact with strangers who have life experiences and wisdom that can be invaluable. I credit JME with a fabulous post on the Time Value of Money -- and timeshares. I included the link below (I couldn't embed?) -- and it has pearls of wisdom that are important for us, especially when we have young children.

[ 2014 ] Buy a Grande Ocean week....or just keep renting??

Welcome again, and please ask any and all questions!

Best,

Greg

Greg your post is so nice.

When I started reading it I did wonder. . ."is he being serious or is he tongue in cheek saying how much time investment this purchase is going to cost? I'm still not sure but I'm going to run with the understanding that everything you said is what I've heard you repeat again and again about enjoying these vacations with your family. With that I can conclude that you'd like to see someone else have such good opportunities with their young and growing family.

Greg, don't you agree though that there is a considerable time investment even if you purchase a handful of points and expect to reserve the 4 and 5 night reservation during peak times? Just look at the time invested in this thread. I've invested a significant time in reading it. Then it comes to mind during the day even when I'm not cruising TUG. When those thoughts subside I'm wondering if any inventory has opened in the 60 day window. Or if my daughter will be able to join us on the nice lounges at Crystal Shores.

How many times did I log in to the owners site just today? Oh, I don't know. Stupid site knocks you off so quick. And then you get the insulting pop-up that your session was timed out. I know that already! I know I called once. Got off the call and called right back to see if another agent could do better than the first. She did (although she filled empty air space with the game of 20 questions and was driving me nuts). Her "So how's the weather in . . . ahhh Michigan?" Me "You found that inventory at Monarch yet?" Her "My computer's running slow." They're always running slow. I'm embarrassed to say how long it took me tonight to go over aaaaagainnn my transferred trust points, transferred elected points, elected points, banked elected points, transferred trust points in holding, transferred elected points in holding. I've got my notes so I'm ready for tomorrows call.

With that said I've got to further say I think we got into the system at the right time. Wish it could have been earlier when the kids were younger. I see families like yours enjoying their time together. Similar to memories at the lake cottage.

My final conclusion is that if you don't want to spend the time, don't sign on the line.

 

[Quilter]

Or put another way, how many people use their full name in their username on TUG?

I poked his name in a google search. Some interesting characters popped up. Not such an uncommon name. David Vel came up with a similar result.

 

[JIMinNC]

Very well said, I'm with you 100% on this. Your trepidation about P2P is multiplied for us who have multiple young kids and sometimes family traveling too. Imagine flying 6 people down to some island and then finding out you have no room! I'm glad to hear that renting points is as fast and seamless as it is. It sounds like a very nice option. We NEED 2/3 bedroom places, so while the direction I'm leaning seems to be changing by the hour lately, at this point perhaps we'll go with a limited resale DC package, and augment through renting points, until we have some experience under our belt, and then we can either buy more points or buy a week somewhere. Ask me again tomorrow and I'll have a different plan

I think that's a smart approach. Until you know exactly what you want, rescind and figure it all out. Also, starting small is what we did as well.

We have owned a timeshare since 1999, so I knew about TUG long ago. So when we decided to get rid of our old timeshare and buy into the Marriott program in 2014, I thoroughly researched and posted questions on this Marriott forum before we even went to talk to the sales people. By the time we got serious, I knew there were only two options we would consider, 1) a resale DC Points package from a third-party broker, or 2) a Hybrid bundle of a Marriott resale week and matching DC Points from Marriott. We decided on option 2 because, at that time, the price for resale points ($4/point or so), plus the Marriott activation fees ($2/point) totaled about $6 or so per point. The bundle package from Marriott of an enrolled Barony Beach Club week plus matching DC Points wound up averaging out to about $6.95/point. So we paid about $1 per point more, but we got a week in addition to the points, allowing us to play in both the DC Points system AND the legacy weeks system at our option. The first two ownership years - 2015 and 2016 - we elected the Barony week for DC Points, and rented a few more, to give us enough points to get some experience with the Points system. For 2017, we opted to try an Interval International trade with the Silver Barony week, and were successful in getting the September week at Grande Ocean that I mentioned in an earlier post above. We'll probably opt to trade weeks again in 2018 since Easter week falls at the end of Silver season next year, and if we can book that week to trade, we should have some really good trade power to work with. So we were willing to pay a little bit more to get the option to use Points OR Weeks. Also, by buying from Marriott instead of resale points, we had a little more future protection if Marriott would ever opt to change the rules and restrict what you can do with third-party resale Points. Not sure if that's a significant risk or not, but it was an extra bonus that by buying from Marriott it was much less likely that we would be impacted by a negative policy change designed to make resale Points less attractive or useable.

We have one kid about to finish college later this year and another ready to start college next fall, so as we enter empty nest phase, we're continually evaluating when and if we need more points or weeks. We love Maui, so buying a resale every other year unit there might be an option, we may consider another Hybrid Bundle if we can find one that works for us, or possibly buy a package of third-party resale Points. We would love to get to 7000 points so we can book short stays 12 and 13 months out, but need to find the most economical way to get there. We're also thinking about a vacation home/condo in Hilton Head or somewhere else along the South Carolina coast so we can use that whenever we want (and take our dog with us), and save the Marriott Points/weeks for more distant trips.

Learn as much as you can before you buy - and realize that, as others have said, your vacations will change as your children get older. When ours became teenagers, they sorta lost interest in family vacations unless they could bring friends along, so that changed the places we traveled - Hawaii was out and Hilton Head (4 hours each way by car) was in. As they get older and start their own families, it will likely change again.

 

[Quilter]

Joe and David don't you know it's past 1 a.m.? What are you doing on TUG?

 

[MOXJO7282]

Actually I'm doing my son's laundry for our trip to London Friday. His mom is looking after her sick father so I'm mr. mom this week. Actually for the last few months as my wife is the truly devoted daughter dealing with her dad. I'm also a night owl and work out of my home professionally so 2am-7am are often my sleeping hours.

 

[JIMinNC]

You're overly concerned about the P2P renting as there are many reputable owners that would provide you ample proof they are legit that you can confirm very easily. I'm not saying it because I'm one of them it's just a fact.

I do always say either buy more than one and rent the extra for an ROI or don't buy any and just rent from owners like me because there are just so many owners renting it is very easy to find a reputable owner and a good price so there really isn't a need to lay out big bucks to own something yourself.

The only reason to own if your not going to rent for an ROI IMHO is because you just have to go to Maui during President's week or something else high end during prime time. I use that example because that is what I became obsessed with and had to experience. Renting high end during prime time is the biggest fish of them all and cost a big premium to rent from a 3rd party or Marriott so that it what compelled me to own so I could save the big premium.

I believe this is true to this day in my experience so if you were to say I NEED Aruba during spring break and plan on going every year at that time that is where I would say you're better off buying a resale unit.

Also I am a weeks owner but did sign up for the DC basically for a bunch of points and the free 4 night HHI encore stay and I tried to rent off of VPE and had great success one time but then the other 2 times couldn't find someone who had points available.

Am I wrong and renting excess points is successful 90% of the time or is it 50/50?

As someone who is also not particularly comfortable with P2P transactions, let me offer one counter-point to this argument...

I agree that if I was dealing with someone like you who I could trust and I knew that you would always (or almost always) have what I wanted, then going the P2P route would be much less stressful. We would establish the trust and the business relationship would be built. But the problem is, you might have what I need, but then you might not. If I'm looking for a June week in Maui and you have it... great... it works. But if I'm looking for a March week at Crystal Shores and you don't have that for rent, then I have to go find someone else that does - then I'm back to dealing with someone I have no history with and no idea if they really know what they are doing - so the stress level of a P2P rental is back in play.

The advantage of booking with my own points (or weeks) is that I have one source (Marriott Vacation Club) that is much more likely than any single P2P seller to have something that I can use for the trip that I want to take.

 

[MOXJO7282]

As someone who is also not particularly comfortable with P2P transactions, let me offer one counter-point to this argument...

I agree that if I was dealing with someone like you who I could trust and I knew that you would always (or almost always) have what I wanted, then going the P2P route would be much less stressful. We would establish the trust and the business relationship would be built. But the problem is, you might have what I need, but then you might not. If I'm looking for a June week in Maui and you have it... great... it works. But if I'm looking for a March week at Crystal Shores and you don't have that for rent, then I have to go find someone else that does - then I'm back to dealing with someone I have no history with and no idea if they really know what they are doing - so the stress level of a P2P rental is back in play.

The advantage of booking with my own points (or weeks) is that I have one source (Marriott Vacation Club) that is much more likely than any single P2P seller to have something that I can use for the trip that I want to take.

I do understand the stress free approach. I've been doing what i do for so long maybe i make it easier then it is. The good news is we're all taking these great vacations. When the time comes to look back and reflect us TUGGERS at least will look back on the priceless memories and forget that at one time almost all of us bought from the Dev and paid the premium. At least we can say we got a premium product that created priceless memories.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

I poked his name in a google search. Some interesting characters popped up. Not such an uncommon name. David Vel came up with a similar result.

How many were 36? I contacted the OP directly through another channel and he acknowledged the thread. We exchanged a couple words.

I think we as tuggers are so skeptical that when a post pops up like this we have a difficult time believing it's real.