[2016] Account review email [Accts. suspended]

[ronparise]

Discounts on available inventory within 60 days of check in is the benefit we bought. Canceling a reservation made months before to create that available inventory is a manipulation.. . whether it gains an advantage or an unfair advantage is an open question in my mind, but I dont think wyndham has any questions at all

 

[bnoble]

folks can judge for themselves whether this language from the program directory protects Wyndham from damages sought by owners who have had their use rights restricted

I had exactly the same thought when I read it.

 

[wjappraise]

Discounts on available inventory within 60 days of check in is the benefit we bought. Canceling a reservation made months before to create that available inventory is a manipulation.. . whether it gains an advantage or an unfair advantage is an open question in my mind, but I dont think wyndham has any questions at all

Ron - I concur that is the case, however, it is NOT what was sold, at least to me. It was sold as fact that I would have the right to cancel and rebook, and even the salesman and his supervisor confirmed that I could call Wyndham and have the VCs do it for me. I had them call a VC on the spot prior to purchase, and guess what, it was validated. So, it is NOT a manipulation of the program if at least these two "silos" clearly have been advocating it. It has become "de facto." And that is where Wyndham has a legal problem if they try to allege that you or me or others have violated the "terms".

 

[am1]

Ron - I concur that is the case, however, it is NOT what was sold, at least to me. It was sold as fact that I would have the right to cancel and rebook, and even the salesman and his supervisor confirmed that I could call Wyndham and have the VCs do it for me. I had them call a VC on the spot prior to purchase, and guess what, it was validated. So, it is NOT a manipulation of the program if at least these two "silos" clearly have been advocating it. It has become "de facto." And that is where Wyndham has a legal problem if they try to allege that you or me or others have violated the "terms".

Wyndham cannot have it both ways. They decided it was allowed and have made 10's of millions off of it.

 

[CO skier]

It is difficult to believe that Ron Parise and I are of the same mind on this. It must be Christmas, or something.

While the facts are not the same as the Spearman case, they do rhyme as there is mention of "cancel/rebook loophole", "manipulation" and "Megarenters" in general. It is worth a read before anyone signs a retainer check.

http://cases.justia.com/federal/dis.../7:2011cv03960/139908/148/0.pdf?ts=1415791351

The short story is do not rely on what a timeshare salesperson assures you is true. It did not go well for Megarenter plaintiffs on the fraud charge.

A few highlights:




I. Facts

Defendants Wyndham Vacation Resorts, Inc. and Wyndham Vacation Ownership (collectively "Wyndham") are one of the largest timeshare companies in the world. Wyndham develops and sells vacation ownership interests, which are reflected by an allocation of "points" proportionate to each owner’s interest. These points can be used to make reservations at various resorts.

Plaintiffs William M. Spearman ("Mr. Spearman") and Young-Rang Spearman ("Mrs. Spearman"), together with a trust created by the Spearmans known as the Spearman Family Trust ("Spearman Trust"), own approximately 15,600,000 Wyndham points. They are among the largest Wyndham point holders in the world and are Platinum VIPs, the highest level of a three-tiered VIP benefit program.

Plaintiffs purchased some of their points directly from Wyndham, but accumulated most of their points through purchases from third-party owners.

Wyndham was aware that the Plaintiffs were using their points to operate a for profit rental business, and the Plaintiffs’ situation was discussed among several upper level Wyndham employees. However, when making purchases from Wyndham, Plaintiffs signed documents stating that the purchases were made "for our own personal vacation use and enjoyment," (Doc. 77-36 at 4; Doc. 77-37 at 7; Doc. 77-38 at 5; Doc. 77-39 at 4,) and that Wyndham did not guarantee to assist in the rental of Plaintiffs’ points. (Doc. 77-36 at 4; Doc. 77-37 at 7; Doc. 77-38 at 5; Doc. 77-39 at 4.)

The contract documents also provided that any representations made outside of a delineated list of documents could not be relied on and were not part of the purchase agreement. (Doc. 77-36 at 4; Doc. 77-37 at 7; Doc. 77-38 at 5; Doc. 77-39 at 4.)

As early as 2005,Wyndham began to notice problems associated with allowing a group of large point owners, sometimes referred to as "Megarenters,"4 to run large rental businessesusing Wyndham points.AWyndham internal presentation from 2005 noted that the company supported owners running rental businesses at the time, but recommended limiting transactions and tightening rules because of the negative effects Megarenters were having on Wyndham’s business.

A March 2006 presentation recommended altering many of the VIP Program benefits, such as limiting the number of free guest confirmations available to VIPs, changing the VIP cancellation policy, and limiting the ability of VIPs to upgrade their rooms, in order to deal with the problems created by Megarenters.

Sometime in 2010,Wyndham began work on a new computer software system known as "Voyager." The program, which has not yet been implemented, is apparently intended to more strictly enforce the existing rules and close what Wyndham views as loopholes, such as the ability to cancel and then immediately rebook a reservation. (Doc. 123-53, at 4-5.) Wyndham added a provision to the 2011-2012 member directory which stated that "The Program is for a Member’s own personal use and enjoyment and not for any commercial purposes." (Doc. 123-75 at 3.)

Additionally, an enforcement provision was added, stating that "manipulation of the program rules and/or Wyndham employees to gain an unfair advantage" could result in refusal of services or access to Wyndham services and employees for a duration of time determined at Wyndham’s sole discretion. (Id. at 4.)

Mr. Spearman was not one to suffer in silence what he saw as negative changes. Throughout the period when Wyndham was making these changes to the VIP program benefits, he regularly complained and asserted his distrust of Wyndham through emails with Wyndham employees and online message board postings.


A. Fraud

The Plaintiffs have failed to provide any proof of the falsity of the representations when they were made or a present intent to deceive at that time, and therefore have failed to make out a prima facie case of fraud. In fact, the Plaintiffs continue to successfully rent out points using Wyndham’s systems. (Doc. 77-1 at 37.)

The Plaintiffs have produced less evidence of intent to deceive than the unsuccessful plaintiffs in McCutchen and D.H. Homes Dept. Store,who were at least able to show that the statements concerning future events proved to be ultimately untrue. The Plaintiffs have failed to make out a prima facie case of fraud, and therefore summary judgment is due to be granted concerning this claim.

IV. Conclusion

For the foregoing reasons, Wyndham’s motion for summary judgment (Doc. 78) is due to be DENIED as to Count I, the claim for breach of contract, Count VIII, seeking declaratory judgment, and Count IX seeking injunctive relief. The motion is due to be GRANTED as to all other counts.

 

[ronparise]

Ron - I concur that is the case, however, it is NOT what was sold, at least to me. It was sold as fact that I would have the right to cancel and rebook, and even the salesman and his supervisor confirmed that I could call Wyndham and have the VCs do it for me. I had them call a VC on the spot prior to purchase, and guess what, it was validated. So, it is NOT a manipulation of the program if at least these two "silos" clearly have been advocating it. It has become "de facto." And that is where Wyndham has a legal problem if they try to allege that you or me or others have violated the "terms".

If the wyndham attorneys agree with you, and I suspect they do, there wont be some new rule to prohibit the practice of cancelling reservations and immediately rebooking them. In fact they cant prohibit the practice, After all cancel/rebook/upgrade is nothing but three simple and basic features of the club Cancelling reservations will continue to be allowed, as will booing reservations as will upgrading. What Im suggesting is that something will be done to remove the financial incentive to do all three within a few seconds

Perhaps a waiting list will be introduced, or maybe cancellations will come back after a random amount of time. Or maybe they wont go after commercial renting by going after the practice of cancel and rebook... Maybe they will simply restrict VIP benefits to reservations made with VIP eligible points.. so do all the cancel/rebook you want but you will only get the discount with points purchased directly from wyndham

What I am sure of is that they are going to go after commercial renting (whatever that is) one way or another.

 

[ronparise]

we have never disagreed about the facts... or that cancel and rebooking for discounts is a manipulation of the system. I always argued that it didnt hurt anyone and I still feel that way. What Im saying now is that Wyndham doesnt agree with me, and they are, I think going to do something about it

 

[Richelle]

Whatever they decide to do, they should just get on with it. Unless they have people adding and subtracting with their fingers, this has been going on for way to long.


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[ronparise]

Whatever they decide to do, they should just get on with it. Unless they have people adding and subtracting with their fingers, this has been going on for way to long.


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There's more to it than adding and subtracting. There's the question of what to do with the numbers

 

[Richelle]

I have a few ideas on what they can do with their numbers.


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[am1]

No matter what numbers they have I have other numbers that need to be accounted for. Loss of use is fairly easy, damages to my reputation and stress is a little harder.

 

[bnoble]

I have other numbers that need to be accounted for.

Good luck with that. Wyndham is not going to roll over on this, and will almost certainly resort to "my pockets are deeper than yours" in the courts.

 

[wjappraise]

Good luck with that. Wyndham is not going to roll over on this, and will almost certainly resort to "my pockets are deeper than yours" in the courts.

I don't know. The whole being "out of trust" spectre hanging over Wyndham might be enough to encourage them to negotiate with unhappy owners as opposed to letting it hit the courts.


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[am1]

I don't know. The whole being "out of trust" spectre hanging over Wyndham might be enough to encourage them to negotiate with unhappy owners as opposed to letting it hit the courts.


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I like to think that I have enough damages with proof/evidence from not just the locking of my accounts that I would win. I am waiting to see how it plays out.

If needed I will expose Wyndham but hopefully it does not come to that.

 

[ecwinch]

I don't know. The whole being "out of trust" spectre hanging over Wyndham might be enough to encourage them to negotiate with unhappy owners as opposed to letting it hit the courts.


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It is possible. But if you follow that logic, the whistleblower lawsuit would have never made it to court.

 

[Don40]

we have never disagreed about the facts... or that cancel and rebooking for discounts is a manipulation of the system. I always argued that it didnt hurt anyone and I still feel that way. What Im saying now is that Wyndham doesnt agree with me, and they are, I think going to do something about it

The cancel rebook, has been around for a very long time. Wyndham had it that when you canceled a reservation it would reappear the next day in the system at opening time. The issue they had were "megarenters" of that time would provide gifts to the VC and they would give those renters the pick of what was available in the am transactions. Thus the wording of manipulating a Wyndham employee was added. Wyndham has to allow cancellations of reservations or the system fails. The VIP benefits can change with the upgrades, but this is the big hook to get new, and current owners to buy. This is their conundrum wrapped in an enigma, how many upgrades to allow in a timeframe. Voyager, or any new system can and will be manipulated to benefit the new "megarenter", as Wyndham is the chief megarenter.

What Wyndham has to fear is all the new hotels, being built with mini kitchens and timeshare like amenities without the buy in and yearly maintenance cost associated with owning. Marriott, Hilton are developing their products to capture this market. It cost them virtually nothing to put a sink, fridge, dishes, dishwasher, mini stove in a room. Where you can call today and book for tomorrow, anywhere in the US you want With free breakfast to boot, and someone cleans your room.

 

[vacationhopeful]

.... <snip>
What Wyndham has to fear is all the new hotels, being built with mini kitchens and timeshare like amenities without the buy in and yearly maintenance cost associated with owning. Marriott, Hilton are developing their products to capture this market. It cost them virtually nothing to put a sink, fridge, dishes, dishwasher, mini stove in a room. Where you can call today and book for tomorrow, anywhere in the US you want With free breakfast to boot, and someone cleans your room.

Don40 ... this is an angle which will affect Wyndham's timeshare business model with the big bubble of travellers over 50 years old. Retirees NOW are unlikely to have PENSION plans ... relying on their savings.

Plus the older plan of downsizing the large family home to fund retirement has also been eliminated with the stagnate housing prices/market for the past 10+ years. My 75 +/- yo old cousin just last month (November) took a job for 20 hours of week as a "Walmart Greeter" .. his wife died and her Social Security check stopped in October. I expect their house will go up for sale in Feb/Mar (they had no children).

TUG readers might be more informed about using timeshares ... but other factors are reshaping general timeshare usage and ownership. I looked at owning timeshares as a way to spend retirement winter months in the Ft Lauderdale/Miami area ... not wanting to SPEND the big dollars (and empty 2nd home issues) my parents had with owning 2nd homes in South Florida (first a condo; then, a single family rancher).

But Wyndham newer rule changes .. overlapping reservations even by a single night .. is BIG crinkle in implementing that 'retirement housing' plan. And making the Wyndham product less likely to fit my usage plan.

And no .... using the "cancel & rebook" to save points/costs was not part of my original plan. But became MORE of the plan as Wyndham rules/costs changed.

Now, I will definitely be looking at those "extended" stay places ... as Wyndham really has "price and rule" changed my vacation staying plans in Pompano. And timeshares have no "FREE Breakfasts" buffets. I can spend time searching Expedia or other websites looking for the better prices ... or start packing a small microwave in my car (most motels have refrigerators).

But Wyndham really profits from CASH RENTING our resorts on internet websites ... I will not exclude those rental options along with looking at the LMR thread here on TUG. And AirBnB.

Will invest in a better navigator system for the car.

 

[wjappraise]

It is possible. But if you follow that logic, the whistleblower lawsuit would have never made it to court.

The difference is that being "out of trust" violates state(s) law and will incur regulatory sanctions that make court judgments look like peanuts.


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[Roger830]

The difference is that being "out of trust" violates state(s) law and will incur regulatory sanctions

What does "out of trust" mean?

If it means that there are more points than weeks for reservations, this happens by week #2.

Wyndham by their own rules can take inventory for their own use at 60 days. This could then be used for vip discounts.

Points expire at the end of the use year, no balanncing required.

 

[am1]

Points expire at the end of the use year, no balanncing required.

Not when Wyndhams system pushed them forward every year. Wyndham allowed their system to do that for years. Now Wyndham wonders why some owners have so many points in their accounts. Right before Wyndham stopped allowing owners to transfer points I purchased tens of million from owners desperately trying to un load them so they could afford to pay their loan and maintenance fees to Wyndham.

 

[wjappraise]

What does "out of trust" mean?

It means more points exist than cumulative nights for each resort. With Wyndhams IT debacle that was returning more points with some cancellations, coupled with points rolling forward for years, likely has resulted in that dire situation. If the state regulators get wind of it, and want to punish Wyndham after years of complaints, this would be their opportunity to come down hard on them.



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[Richelle]

It means more points exist than cumulative nights for each resort. With Wyndhams IT debacle that was returning more points with some cancellations, coupled with points rolling forward for years, likely has resulted in that dire situation. If the state regulators get wind of it, and want to punish Wyndham after years of complaints, this would be their opportunity to come down hard on them.



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If that's the case, I guess the suspensions was a poor idea on Wyndham's part since it highlighted the issue publicly.


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[SueDonJ]

Marriott, DVC and most other timeshare companies that offer points options allow some form of banking forward and borrowing back from original Use Years (which is what I think you all mean by "pooling" Wyndham points) as well as, at least in Marriott's case, the ability to cancel existing reservations and re-book them closer to check-in at a discounted points rate with reimbursement of the excess. I find it hard to believe that so many of the big players would offer it if state/federal regulations forbid it. On the other hand, guaranteeing that inventory will always be available when using banked/borrowed points would definitely get them in hot water because availability in a floating system can never be guaranteed. Instead what they guarantee is that IF inventory is available, certain owners can take advantage of effectively changing the Use Years of the annual allotments of Points and/or discounted Points rates in certain situations.

Based on everything in this thread I think that Wyndham is doing two things - first fully investigating the limitations of their IT systems which seem to be an unruly mess and second, fully investigating the extent of owner rental activity. I'd be extremely worried if I were involved in owner rentals to the extent that a few of you appear to be. Consider that when DVC felt that their bottom line was impacted so severely that their business suffered for it, all it took for them to curtail a large amount of mega-renting was establishing a limit on the annual number of owner reservations that could have guest names attached. (Marriott's points system is just six years young but I expect we'll eventually see the day when a similar limit is imposed on us.)

Going all the way back to the beginning of this debacle, I really hope that you all have retained qualified attorneys and are allowing them to work for you. Regardless of whether Wyndham is following established rules and regulations, which I suspect they are, this mess has gone on for an obscenely long time. Based on only that I'd have a lawyer putting up a damned good fight on my behalf for reimbursement of lost usage/income.

 

[wjappraise]

Marriott, DVC and most other timeshare companies that offer points options allow some form of banking forward and borrowing back from original Use Years (which is what I think you all mean by "pooling" Wyndham points) as well as, at least in Marriott's case, the ability to cancel existing reservations and re-book them closer to check-in at a discounted points rate with reimbursement of the excess.

SueDon, I believe you have a good handle on the matter with a few exceptions.

1) Beyond the simple Credit pooling, a method was in place within Wyndham's point structure that would allow owners with multiple use years (1/1, 4/1, 7/1, 10/1 were my use years until a few weeks ago, now they are all 1/1), could effectively "roll points forward" by making a reservation with points that would expire on 3/31, and cancel the reservation the next day. Once the following day showed the points balance (more on Wyndham being a day behind comes later) those points would be returned to the account with a new expiration date of 6/30, 9/30, or perhaps 12/31. There really was no rhyme nor reason to it, and it did not work every time, but it did often enough for Wyndham sales to get wind of it and use this to encourage existing owners to buy contracts from them with an alternate use year than the existing contracts in the owner's account.

2) Wyndham's IT department, unlike Marriot, DVC, and others, clearly has HUGE problems. Speaking only from my circumstance, it is clear that some reservations when I would cancel them, would return many more points than the actual reservation "cost." Complicating it is the fact that Wyndham takes an entire day to update your current point status, so an owner can only see yesterday's snapshot point total. Therefore, if an owner is cancelling numerous reservations and making more on a particular day, there would be no way for him or her to know the glitch had impacted his or her point total until the next day, and that assumes that the owner would be looking for it. For years, I simply trusted Wyndham's accounting for the points, like I do my bank account. Years ago I would reconcile my bank account, now I simply enter my data into Quicken and go about my business. It is the same for many of us impacted owners with regard to our point balances. Once it became clear to me I had too many points, I let Wyndham know this. This was on or about January 2, 2106. I informed the rep while I was complaining about Credit Pool points being screwed up. She took a couple of days, but called me back and said my points were just fine (I know they were not), but she was focused on my complaint of Credit Pool issues and refused to hear anything I had to say. At that point, I had millions more points than I should have had. I also let a Wyndham attorney, David Oigarden, know that the points debacle was a much bigger problem than what he was grinding me about (making more reservations than the ten per night limit). This was sometime in March of 2016. He told me he would pass along my concerns to Owner Care (I never heard a word). I let millions of points expire on June 30, 2016. Then my account was suspended in August 23, 2106. More points expired September 30, 2016. And I have millions more that will expire December 31, 2016. I have made the choice to let those points expire because they are simply not my points (with the exception of a few points that are mine and I am using). However, if I wanted to, I certainly could have made hundreds of reservations and sold them on Ebay, Redweek, or TUG. Reservations sold for pennies on the dollar for "free points" would still make me a profit. I believe that is what other impacted owners have done, perhaps to recoup some money from the losses they have incurred, or perhaps to spite Wyndham. Either way, I think that explains the inordinate number of last minute reservations at RIDICULOUS low prices that are currently found on TUG bargain basement site.

3) Some owners discovered a way that they could purchase larger contracts, and then place the points in the Credit Pool. Then they could turn around and sell those contracts back to Wyndham via an associated broker. Wyndham was buying contracts that had no points for two or three years. However, it appears they populated these contracts with points once they sold them via their sales force. This has resulted in perhaps 100s of millions of points created where there should be none.

So, I do not think it is a matter where comparing Wyndham to other TS companies will truly yield an apples-to-apples comparison. I also believe that the method employed by Wyndham to freeze accounts for so long and to not respond to its owners has turned this into a combative relationship that could have easily been avoided. That is where the arrogance coupled with the incompetence is so very frustrating for those of us impacted owners.

 

[am1]

SueDon, I believe you have a good handle on the matter with a few exceptions.

1) Beyond the simple Credit pooling, a method was in place within Wyndham's point structure that would allow owners with multiple use years (1/1, 4/1, 7/1, 10/1 were my use years until a few weeks ago, now they are all 1/1), could effectively "roll points forward" by making a reservation with points that would expire on 3/31, and cancel the reservation the next day. Once the following day showed the points balance (more on Wyndham being a day behind comes later) those points would be returned to the account with a new expiration date of 6/30, 9/30, or perhaps 12/31. There really was no rhyme nor reason to it, and it did not work every time, but it did often enough for Wyndham sales to get wind of it and use this to encourage existing owners to buy contracts from them with an alternate use year than the existing contracts in the owner's account.

2) Wyndham's IT department, unlike Marriot, DVC, and others, clearly has HUGE problems. Speaking only from my circumstance, it is clear that some reservations when I would cancel them, would return many more points than the actual reservation "cost." Complicating it is the fact that Wyndham takes an entire day to update your current point status, so an owner can only see yesterday's snapshot point total. Therefore, if an owner is cancelling numerous reservations and making more on a particular day, there would be no way for him or her to know the glitch had impacted his or her point total until the next day, and that assumes that the owner would be looking for it. For years, I simply trusted Wyndham's accounting for the points, like I do my bank account. Years ago I would reconcile my bank account, now I simply enter my data into Quicken and go about my business. It is the same for many of us impacted owners with regard to our point balances. Once it became clear to me I had too many points, I let Wyndham know this. This was on or about January 2, 2106. I informed the rep while I was complaining about Credit Pool points being screwed up. She took a couple of days, but called me back and said my points were just fine (I know they were not), but she was focused on my complaint of Credit Pool issues and refused to hear anything I had to say. At that point, I had millions more points than I should have had. I also let a Wyndham attorney, David Oigarden, know that the points debacle was a much bigger problem than what he was grinding me about (making more reservations than the ten per night limit). This was sometime in March of 2016. He told me he would pass along my concerns to Owner Care (I never heard a word). I let millions of points expire on June 30, 2016. Then my account was suspended in August 23, 2106. More points expired September 30, 2016. And I have millions more that will expire December 31, 2016. I have made the choice to let those points expire because they are simply not my points (with the exception of a few points that are mine and I am using). However, if I wanted to, I certainly could have made hundreds of reservations and sold them on Ebay, Redweek, or TUG. Reservations sold for pennies on the dollar for "free points" would still make me a profit. I believe that is what other impacted owners have done, perhaps to recoup some money from the losses they have incurred, or perhaps to spite Wyndham. Either way, I think that explains the inordinate number of last minute reservations at RIDICULOUS low prices that are currently found on TUG bargain basement site.

3) Some owners discovered a way that they could purchase larger contracts, and then place the points in the Credit Pool. Then they could turn around and sell those contracts back to Wyndham via an associated broker. Wyndham was buying contracts that had no points for two or three years. However, it appears they populated these contracts with points once they sold them via their sales force. This has resulted in perhaps 100s of millions of points created where there should be none.

So, I do not think it is a matter where comparing Wyndham to other TS companies will truly yield an apples-to-apples comparison. I also believe that the method employed by Wyndham to freeze accounts for so long and to not respond to its owners has turned this into a combative relationship that could have easily been avoided. That is where the arrogance coupled with the incompetence is so very frustrating for those of us impacted owners.

Right locking our accounts with no notice and no way to add guest names or cancel reservations for at least a few weeks makes wyndham look bad no matter their intent.