[ 2012 ] Fairmont / Sunchaser / Northwynd official thread with lawsuit info!

[Fly525]

Thanks for posting this Five Step Process. I will be working my way through these steps on my own.

As a point of interest, I mailed a registered letter to Kirk Wankel, along with emails to Petitioner, Respondent and Resort Villa Management on May 31, 2013 providing brief reasons for not choosing either "Freedom to Choose or Reason to Stay."

 

[TS Migraine]

I believe that these points above are extremely valid. By lumping all things into one document and having people agree to multiple issues and sign off in agreement of these vague projections before the court hearings and due process is just wrong.

I was sent a copy of the the ruling from the Court of Queens Bench on May 30th and the ruling was to provide time for TS owners and lease holders to prepare. According to the May 30th ruling, the date for the next court hearing will be set on or after June 20th. (this is according to the Court of Queens Bench document I received from GeldertLaw office) Perhaps a date has now been set and I am not aware of it being the 25th.

To address the questions about what to agree with and what not to sign off and agree with, I am providing a brief summary of the letter sent on my behalf to Northwynd from Geldert Law office. Generally summarized it stated:

....that I did not agree to the petition before the courts and both options from Northwynd were resolutely rejected and until there was an order from the courts, no money will be paid. Furthermore, if there is any action taken by Northwynd against me before the hearings are complete, steps will be taken to protect my name and my credit....

I suggest if at all possible, seek legal council. I don't have the answers and this is very complex considering they were able to take this to court to seek judgement to literally change all previous contracts. How this is even possible is a mystery to me.

I agree with all of this, and I hope our Faith in the legal system to uphold our rights according to the original Lease Contracts holds- well said One World One race.
How do the MArriott resorts Mangage their Properties?? They are always superb.
Didn't I read in correspondence from Northwynd, that even if you Go, you may still be held responsible for past unpaid manitenance fees? People who think they have opted out based on the Stay or Go letter may not be totally off the hook- yet. Or, if you privately sell your time, or even Give it away, if the new owners don't pay up on time, they will come back after YOU for any money they feel is still owing?
A lot of people are stating their ( imagined) fears, all of which are probably valid, however, for those of us still wondering what to do, it ups the emotional agony of the whole mess. Docken Klym told me I didn't HAVE to do anything more right now and they will be in touch with me before it is time to make the next move. I expect their guidance to be based on the outcomes of what has already transpired via the BC Court- not on pre-supposed suspicions. I don't think Northwynd can impose "penalties' on those of us who are under legal guidance who have not paid Stay or Go fees. I was told by Docken Klym when I retained them, that I was not responsible for any Stay or Go fees and that I was to tell Northwynd I had retained them as Lawyers. I am still hanging onto the hope that my original Lease is a legal document, kind of like a Will, whereby, no one can legally make changes to it without my permission. How it is interpretted by the BC court ( with reference to rental analogies, car lease analogies, Accountant's BC court Petition take on it ), may be another matter, but I still think I am in better hands with a lawyer than fighting that on my own. That is why I joined the Class Action rather than signing anything that might legally alter my original agreement.
Next concern, If MANY people pay to GO rather than challenge this, A) Northwynd has a LOT of CASH to fight us in the courts, B) they may be able to appeal to the Courts saying this was a favourable option for owners- see ( 5000??) took it. When infact, those people were probably under duress- like all the rest of us. If there are 15,000 owners and between numbers with Lawyers, TUGG and FB we might have access to the feelings of 1500, there are a lot of people under duress unspoken for. Northwynd has the advantage here, because they know who all those people are, and have contact info. maybe we are entitled to that info, since 51 % of us could oppose the present Management and replace them. How do we get access to the masses addresses?

 

[truthr]

From what I gather those who choose to stay and pay have agreed to whatever Northwynd wants to do (re: the petition before the court). They may think they have just chosen to pay the "one time fee" but they have also agreed to that and everything else; thereby giving Northwynd the very power they want. That is why choosing the Stay or Go was not really much different - price tag (basically the same); signing rights over to Northwynd to do what they want (basically the same).

A win/win for Northwynd no mater which way you sign and pay; unless of course you don't sign and pay; then the threat of DEFAULT and collections. Not a valid contract IMO.

Also regarding the resell of the "opt out", from what I have read they will not be reselling just having the titles transferred over to who??? Well Northwynd/Northmount; so in reality who ever opt outs is paying for Northwynd/Northmount to gain more assets/power over whomever is left.

Not very fair practice as far as I am concerned.

 

[TS Migraine]

Lets hope the court agrees this is ALL not a very FAIR practice. I can't imagine bullying being condoned by our Justice System, however, we are always told when things go to court, it is a 50/50 chance either way.
A FB fellow named Jim is concerned that we are getting too many law firms involved getting a piece of our cash. He thinks the Class Action should restrict itself to fighting for the people who paid to go, ( which he thinks borders on criminal) and leave the rest to the 2 originally involved BC firms who are putting together a position paper outlining the violation of our rights via the 'Letter of Duress- Stay or Go.' Hmm. I agree we are better off speaking as 1 voice ( or at most 3), but for those of us who opted to pay a retainer fee rather than pay to stay or go, by acting before May 30th, we didn't have to pay to stay or go. For those of us in AB and further east, access to the BC firms in order to file form 67 prior to the deadline was tricky through the BC firms/ BC court .

 

[Brit76]

The phrase "Class Action Lawsuit" keeps being mentioned - where is this coming from? I haven't seen that this is one !!!

 

[TS Migraine]

In posts 311 & 324 on previous pages, a BC firm hosted by Lindsay LeBlanc, www.coxtaylor.com was retaining Sunchaser owners for a $300.00 fee to Challenge Petition 66. Another Firm in BC was doing the same- not sure of the cost or the name of the firm. In post 347 Docken Klym, a Class Action Firm in Calgary,( robert@docken.com )got wind of the scandal about May 20th, and they have been retained by a number of people both before and since the May 31st deadline to file Form 67 and the letter of oposition to CHOOSE to stay or go. Docken Klym are the Class Action Firm, and are in consultation with the other two independent Firms out of BC who also wish to proceed in the format of a Class Action. i believe there are now about 700 people who have retained a lawyer concerning this issue. You can still retain Docken Klym and become a part of the Class Action. If you have paid to stay or go, and regret your decision and believe you have been coerced and therefore unjustly charged, Docken Klym plans to fight for a refund of those monies if the BC Court determines it was an unfait demand from the start.

 

[Judythreetimes]

In posts 311 & 324 on previous pages, a BC firm hosted by Lindsay LeBlanc, www.coxtaylor.com was retaining Sunchaser owners for a $300.00 fee to Challenge Petition 66. Another Firm in BC was doing the same- not sure of the cost or the name of the firm. In post 347 Docken Klym, a Class Action Firm in Calgary,( robert@docken.com )got wind of the scandal about May 20th, and they have been retained by a number of people both before and since the May 31st deadline to file Form 67 and the letter of oposition to CHOOSE to stay or go. Docken Klym are the Class Action Firm, and are in consultation with the other two independent Firms out of BC who also wish to proceed in the format of a Class Action. i believe there are now about 700 people who have retained a lawyer concerning this issue. You can still retain Docken Klym and become a part of the Class Action. If you have paid to stay or go, and regret your decision and believe you have been coerced and therefore unjustly charged, Docken Klym plans to fight for a refund of those monies if the BC Court determines it was an unfait demand from the start.

Thank you for the clarification. There seems to be some confusion as to who is doing what and why. I am with docken and will stay with them. I think they have more experience in class action and a really good track record.

 

[fairmontlvr]

I wonder what maintenace fees are for the rest of the Timeshare world? Mountainside, across the road say there maintenace fees are less and - they have a good reserve fund. I think they had a flood last year too.(#294).
We have watched the maintenance fees increase over 150% since we purchased. A fast talking salesman (back in the early 90's) even said the maintenance fees should decrease as more people bought timeshares! Ha Ha
They are certainly too high for us to continue - let alone this added money grab. Losing what is left of our original investment is punishment enough.
Originally there was to be one week a year for each unit not to be used to refurbish and update. I don't think the window coverings or bedspreads have been changed ever in the unit we last stayed in.
The former owners and the new owners spread themselves thin by getting more resorts all over the place - I wonder if our maintenance fees/reserve funds were being used for this as well as lining the pockets of various owners?

The flood at Mountainside would have been covered by insurance. Which begs the question, if one of the poly-B pipes that were used at 14 of 17 of the buildings were to happen to rupture, wouldn't the cost of repairs be covered by Sunchaser's insurance policy? If these pipes were code at the time of construction, then I would think it would be covered. Sure it would make sense to replace the pipes while doing any renovations, but to use this as justification for the fees is nonsense.

As far as increase in fees, in 2006 the maintenance fee for a 2 bedroom at Sunchaser were$496.00. This year, not counting the renovation project, the maintenance fee for a 2 bedroom were $949.88, a 91.5% increase in 7 years.

I believe the maintenance fee at Mountainside this year for a 2 bedroom was around $700.00. How is it they seem to be doing fine at a much older complex, have a reserve fund in excess of $500,000 and have been in the process for the last few years renovating their units?

 

[TS Migraine]

In a fairly recen tprevious posting someone noted that if an Insurance company gets numerous repeat claims for the same problem, they can inisist a reno be done to fix the recurring problem or insurance won't cover it. Further, there was a Class Action against the manufacturer of Poly-B and Canadian claimants got on board to teh tune of 30 million dollars in payouts, BUT, all the claims had to be in by 2005, and it seems the previous FRP owners missed that opportunity. However, if Northwynd bought the property for pennies on the dollar in 2010, they MUST have known about the Poly-B fiasco prior to purchase. So, they would have knowingly bought this liability at time of purchase.

 

[CleoB]

In posts 311 & 324 on previous pages, a BC firm hosted by Lindsay LeBlanc, www.coxtaylor.com was retaining Sunchaser owners for a $300.00 fee to Challenge Petition 66. Another Firm in BC was doing the same- not sure of the cost or the name of the firm. In post 347 Docken Klym, a Class Action Firm in Calgary,( robert@docken.com )got wind of the scandal about May 20th, and they have been retained by a number of people both before and since the May 31st deadline to file Form 67 and the letter of oposition to CHOOSE to stay or go. Docken Klym are the Class Action Firm, and are in consultation with the other two independent Firms out of BC who also wish to proceed in the format of a Class Action. i believe there are now about 700 people who have retained a lawyer concerning this issue. You can still retain Docken Klym and become a part of the Class Action. If you have paid to stay or go, and regret your decision and believe you have been coerced and therefore unjustly charged, Docken Klym plans to fight for a refund of those monies if the BC Court determines it was an unfait demand from the start.

I don't understand where "class action" is coming from either. I paid DK a retainer, but had no idea they were a class action firm. The letter I received from Robert Forsyth never mentioned "class action". I assumed they will file form 67 for their clients and appear in court June 20. After, after a decision has been made whether what Northwynd is proposing is deemed legal or not, then I believe a class action will be next. Don't jump ahead.

 

[CleoB]

The flood at Mountainside would have been covered by insurance. Which begs the question, if one of the poly-B pipes that were used at 14 of 17 of the buildings were to happen to rupture, wouldn't the cost of repairs be covered by Sunchaser's insurance policy? If these pipes were code at the time of construction, then I would think it would be covered. Sure it would make sense to replace the pipes while doing any renovations, but to use this as justification for the fees is nonsense.

As far as increase in fees, in 2006 the maintenance fee for a 2 bedroom at Sunchaser were$496.00. This year, not counting the renovation project, the maintenance fee for a 2 bedroom were $949.88, a 91.5% increase in 7 years.

I believe the maintenance fee at Mountainside this year for a 2 bedroom was around $700.00. How is it they seem to be doing fine at a much older complex, have a reserve fund in excess of $500,000 and have been in the process for the last few years renovating their units?

The leaks wouldn't be covered by insurance. We purchased a pre-owned home and when we had our first leak it was the plumber that told us about the poly b pipes. I googled and found the law firm handling it and they told me to go through my insurance to file a claim. Well I contacted our insurance and was told "sorry, you're to late and BTW, now that we know you have poly b we won't be covering you for any leaks". Nice hey? Any leak we've had (3 in the last 10 years) we've had to pay.

 

[gnorth16]

The leaks wouldn't be covered by insurance. We purchased a pre-owned home and when we had our first leak it was the plumber that told us about the poly b pipes. I googled and found the law firm handling it and they told me to go through my insurance to file a claim. Well I contacted our insurance and was told "sorry, you're to late and BTW, now that we know you have poly b we won't be covering you for any leaks". Nice hey? Any leak we've had (3 in the last 10 years) we've had to pay.

I guess it depends where you live and the insurance company you deal with. Although not an expert in plumbing or insurance, it would be interesting to know if there have been any leaks in the past attributed to poly B at the resort.

This is a Canadian article on Poly B (Interesting Read)

http://subject2homeinspections.com/index.php/about-the-house/item/dealing-with-poly-b

Recently, buyers and sellers of homes with Poly B here in the Okanagan have found themselves in a bit of a conundrum at insurance time. Some insurers have tagged the product with being a higher risk. It seems that the insurance industry is heading more and more a la carte these days. If you have a pool, they charge you more. They like to charge more for having a wood burning appliance, a business run from the home or a shake roof too.

At present in Canada, Poly-B appears to be a reliable plumbing system with a very, very low incident rate of failures, most of which have been attributed to poor workmanship. Some home insurance providers might view Poly B as a higher risk, but in most cases, optional or increased coverage is available to address such situations.

 

[AWSleepy]

Hello, I'm a brand new user here and looking for a "quick and dirty" synopsis of the issue and where it currently stands. There are 23 pages of posts here and it is a little overwhelming trying to digest all the excellent information posted by everyone. I'm a Sunchaser owner.

 

[Anxiety123]

Use of booked Week?

Is anyone that has not paid to Stay or Leave planning on trying to use their booked week in the upcoming weeks? Not sure if they are blocking them now that the Court date has been moved back or if they are sticking with their May 31 date.

 

[Judythreetimes]

Hello, I'm a brand new user here and looking for a "quick and dirty" synopsis of the issue and where it currently stands. There are 23 pages of posts here and it is a little overwhelming trying to digest all the excellent information posted by everyone. I'm a Sunchaser owner.

sigh...I don't think there is an easy explanation for any of it. It just gets more and more confusing as the days go by. Go here. http://sunchaservillas.ca/renovation-program/ All the forms are there, that sort of kind of explain, but not really. the more research I do on this outfit, the scarier it becomes.

 

[fairmontlvr]

Is anyone that has not paid to Stay or Leave planning on trying to use their booked week in the upcoming weeks? Not sure if they are blocking them now that the Court date has been moved back or if they are sticking with their May 31 date.

Good question, I am sure there are many of us who still love Fairmont, still want to go and use their week this year that they have booked in the previous year and have paid the full maintenance fee but are either against the renovation fee or at least want to hear if Northwynd can even do this and are awaiting a decision through the courts.

I cannot see Northwynd refusing owners from using their weeks this summer until a decision is made through the courts.

 

[Undecided62]

Waiting for a response

We have not paid and we notified Northwynd of same. I sent them an email asking if they would honor my reservation since the matter is still before the courts. If they fail to honor my reservation, I've asked for a reimbursement of my 2013 maintenance fees. I'm getting out one way or the other, but waiting to hear what the courts say.

 

[Anxiety123]

Summer Booking

You would think that we would be able to use our booked weeks until after a Court decision is made but they are stating that if we didn't answer them with a signed contract and money by May 31, we are in arrears. And at that, we will not be allowed into our booked week. I am hoping that they will be understanding of the upcoming decision we all have to make come the Court Decision and not make things (owner's dispositions) worse by disallowing booked and paid for weeks.

If anyone does go down and are let into their units, please post, as many are anxiously waiting to see if the folks down in Fairmont are accomodating their owners.

 

[Anxiety123]

Undecided

Please let us know if you get an answer!

 

[TS Migraine]

I don't understand where "class action" is coming from either. I paid DK a retainer, but had no idea they were a class action firm. The letter I received from Robert Forsyth never mentioned "class action". I assumed they will file form 67 for their clients and appear in court June 20. After, after a decision has been made whether what Northwynd is proposing is deemed legal or not, then I believe a class action will be next. Don't jump ahead.

Yes. It is one step at a time, and we are not at the Class Action yet, but previous posts informed us there was a lineup of people at the Fairmont Office in Calgary last week before the May 31st deadline wanting to pay to go just to be DONE with the mess. If the BC Court Rules that Nothmont/Northwynd had n right to demand this money, those people are going to want their money back, and I suspect it won't be willingly re-imbursed. For those of us who have retained legal counsel who filed Form 67 on our behalf so we have not paid the Stay or Go fees, we may not need to proceed with a Class Action.

 

[TS Migraine]

Hello, I'm a brand new user here and looking for a "quick and dirty" synopsis of the issue and where it currently stands. There are 23 pages of posts here and it is a little overwhelming trying to digest all the excellent information posted by everyone. I'm a Sunchaser owner.

FRP changed ownership in 2010 due to a bankruptcy sale and new property Management was established through Northmont/Northwynd. They attempted to have everyone sign a new VIA Vacation Interval Agreement when they realized they needed to do a lot of fixing to retain their 5 star rating with leaky pipes. They are now claiming if you signed the VIA you agreed to pay for Capitol Cost repairs even though you are only a TIME Owner and not a Property owner, so they have acquired permission through the Courts Petition 66, to invoice each owner for their share of the RENO cost. Expecting owners to balk at this, they gave us a STAY or GO Choice, and are using coercion concerning our week's use to force us to make a decision and sign an agreement that alters our ORIGINAL Lease Agreements. The deadline was May 31st or pay penalties. People hired Lawyers bc this just doesn't seem right or fair, and if you haven't signed the VIA, your Original Lease does not state you are responsible for Capitol Cost repairs. BUT Wankel- the Accountant who did all the Calculations references Exhibit C- The VIA to the BC court as proof Northwynd has the RIGHT to do this claiming clause 10 and stating the Lease Contracts have "similar" clauses, but they DONT. So this is an unfair cash grab using duress, time pressure, and deception about what our legal obligations are .

 

[fairmontlvr]

We have not paid and we notified Northwynd of same. I sent them an email asking if they would honor my reservation since the matter is still before the courts. If they fail to honor my reservation, I've asked for a reimbursement of my 2013 maintenance fees. I'm getting out one way or the other, but waiting to hear what the courts say.

I don't want my money back, I want the use of the week that i signed up for, am entitled to, and booked and paid for the maintenance fee a full year in advance. If any of us go down there with a group of 8 people wanting to use our lockoff 2 bedroom suite, and they refuse to allow us to use it, could we not go and stay somewhere else locally, like the Fairmont Lodge, book two rooms for the entire 7 nights, keep the receipts and file a lawsuit against Northwynd to get our money back?

Of course one would have to include some meals as the cost to eat out would be substantially hire then cooking on your own, legal costs to fight this and oh ya, the stress and duress this caused from not honoring their statement from a newsletter where they "strive to provide the service excellence that our owners expect. Most importantly, we are fostering a culture of accountability and financial responsibility as we recognize that we must operate the resort within the fees we generate"

 

[AWSleepy]

FRP changed ownership in 2010 due to a bankruptcy sale and new property Management was established through Northmont/Northwynd. They attempted to have everyone sign a new VIA Vacation Interval Agreement when they realized they needed to do a lot of fixing to retain their 5 star rating with leaky pipes. They are now claiming if you signed the VIA you agreed to pay for Capitol Cost repairs even though you are only a TIME Owner and not a Property owner, so they have acquired permission through the Courts Petition 66, to invoice each owner for their share of the RENO cost. Expecting owners to balk at this, they gave us a STAY or GO Choice, and are using coercion concerning our week's use to force us to make a decision and sign an agreement that alters our ORIGINAL Lease Agreements. The deadline was May 31st or pay penalties. People hired Lawyers bc this just doesn't seem right or fair, and if you haven't signed the VIA, your Original Lease does not state you are responsible for Capitol Cost repairs. BUT Wankel- the Accountant who did all the Calculations references Exhibit C- The VIA to the BC court as proof Northwynd has the RIGHT to do this claiming clause 10 and stating the Lease Contracts have "similar" clauses, but they DONT. So this is an unfair cash grab using duress, time pressure, and deception about what our legal obligations are .

Thank you TS Migraine. This is extremely helpful. One more question: What specifically are the lawyers working on at this stage?

 

[Judythreetimes]

Thank you TS Migraine. This is extremely helpful. One more question: What specifically are the lawyers working on at this stage?

Thank you.

 

[Beaverjfw]

VIA Surrender - Management Fees

I am fully prepared to surrender my interval week. The annual fees are high and I expect them to climb further. However, I won't agree to the concocted cancellation fee proposed by Northwynd.
My biggest issue is the concept that the Developer should be compensated for lost property management fees. If that's not enough, they want to be paid, in advance for fees for the next 20 years. Once the interval is surrendered (or if payment is in default) they have the ability to rent the suite at whatever the market will bear. It seems to me they would have no problem "earning" their annual fee by renting the suite for as little as one or two nights of the full week.
If this is not bad enough, they end up owning the real estate outright once they have 50 to 51 weeks surrendered and have completed a consolidation. They also have the ability to resell the unit or even an entire building if enough weeks can realigned to free the units from the timeshare interests. I also suspect there are unmentioned plans to sell any excess lands for redevelopment once the remaining units are grouped into a downsized resort.
So, Northwynd, reconsider your fees for the cancellation option. Perhaps collect a deficit recovery fee and reasonable administration and transfer fee. You may be able to resolve the issues with many interval owners and move on with renovating the remaining sections of the resort. Otherwise, face the prospect of lengthy litigation.