[ 2012 ] Fairmont / Sunchaser / Northwynd official thread with lawsuit info!

[oneworldonerace]

At this time there is no court decision in favour of Northwynd's application

Someone on a Facebook site posted this and I agree -

This is the problem I have with the Letter to Stay or To Go: They are not ONLY ASKING you to make a decision on staying or going, but along with that decision you are forced into signing your acceptance of the Petition that is in the court system. It is all or nothing. The petition is Northwynd/mont/Sunchaser asking if they can legally make the unilateral agreement changes and/or removing land/buildings from the owners 'trust'. The 'trust' is there to protect us so that we do not lose our property if something (bankruptcy) were to happen. In my opinion these are 3 separate decisions and should not be lumped into one. Because of that we have retained a lawyer. If it was JUST the reno, I might be ok. If I knew what the changes to the lease contract was, I might be ok. If I knew what buildings were being removed, I might be ok. BUT they are asking me to make these decisions BEFORE the court says that they can even legally ask us and BEFORE they say exactly what buildings/land they are targeting to remove, and agreement changes they want to make. My understanding is they are asking for full authority to manage as they see fit, without considering and/or communicating with deeded and leased owners. And the people who want to have this full authority are looking to recover personal investments lost in the Fairmont Resort Property Ltd mortgage scam. And that is wrong in my opinion.

I believe that these points above are extremely valid. By lumping all things into one document and having people agree to multiple issues and sign off in agreement of these vague projections before the court hearings and due process is just wrong.

I was sent a copy of the the ruling from the Court of Queens Bench on May 30th and the ruling was to provide time for TS owners and lease holders to prepare. According to the May 30th ruling, the date for the next court hearing will be set on or after June 20th. (this is according to the Court of Queens Bench document I received from GeldertLaw office) Perhaps a date has now been set and I am not aware of it being the 25th.

To address the questions about what to agree with and what not to sign off and agree with, I am providing a brief summary of the letter sent on my behalf to Northwynd from Geldert Law office. Generally summarized it stated:

....that I did not agree to the petition before the courts and both options from Northwynd were resolutely rejected and until there was an order from the courts, no money will be paid. Furthermore, if there is any action taken by Northwynd against me before the hearings are complete, steps will be taken to protect my name and my credit....

I suggest if at all possible, seek legal council. I don't have the answers and this is very complex considering they were able to take this to court to seek judgement to literally change all previous contracts. How this is even possible is a mystery to me.

 

[CindyD]

Letter Recieved from Sunchasers Villas - May 31/13

It took me awhile to type this but this is the letter I recieved today form Sunchasers...Enjoy

Dear leaseholder or co-owner
At this time, we wanted to provide an update on the petition before the Supreme Court of British Columbia (“SCBC”).
Northmont and the Trustee began the legal process because we realized that all contracts, no matter how “black & white” are open for interpretation and that our timeshare members needed a fair and reasonable legal opportunity to debate the merits of the resort realignment and the rights and responsibilities of all of us to our resort.
Over the past 2 weeks, it has become clear that the largest areas of questions from our timeshare members relate, not to the realignment, but to the rights and obligations arising in the vacation interval agreement. In other words, who is responsible for what?
For instance, if someone is a leaseholder, are they responsible for different costs that a co-owner? Is the developer responsible for structural improvements or are the timeshare members? Who is responsible for issues that go back to the initial construction or how Fairmont ran the resort?

While we continue to believe our interpretation of the agreement is sound based on the Norton Rose Legal Opinion that we have had on the website throughout this process and is consistent with timeshare resorts throughout Canada, we recognize and support the rights of our timeshare members to present their interpretation and have a decision rendered by the SCBC after hearing on its merits.
To that end, the Trustee and Northmont had already agreed with some council representing timeshare members that the time for them to file and serve Responses and Affidavits could be and were willing to extend the same courtesy to all legal counsel in order to ensure all of our timeshare members had a reasonable opportunity to participate in the legal process, if desired. However, 1 counsel preferred to formalize the extension through a court order as a result, on May 30, 2013, legal counsel for the Trustee, Northmont and some Vacation Interval Owners, attended in the SCBC to seek the Court’s consent to vary the time for filing of Responses to the Petition and Affidavits. The Court agreed to vary the Order such that the filing date for the Responses to the Petition and supporting Affidavits is now to be determined at a hearing to be held on June 20, 2013 or a later date accepted to the Court. The hearing has now been schedule to occur on June 25/13 at 3pm. A copy of the order has been placed on the www.sunchaservillas.ca website in the BC Supreme Court Petition section.
As a result of this change, Vacation Interval Owners who intended to participate in the legal proceedings but require more time to file and serve their Response to Petition and Affidavits are no longer required to do so before May 31/13. Instead, the date for such filing and service will be determined by the Court on the June 25 Hearing.
As a result of this change, Vacation Interval Owners who intend to participate in legal proceedings but require more time to file and serve their Response to Petition and Affidavits are no longer required to do so before May 31, 2013. Instead, the date for such filing and service will be determined by the Court at the June 25 Hearing.
The Hearing on June 25/13 will be procedural in nature, primarily to determine the timelines and process for the Trustee’s application for advice and direction. No substantive issues (I.E. issues affecting substantive rights) will be decided at that hearing. Once this hearing is complete, we should have a better understanding of the potential timeline for resolution of the issues.
Please note that the changes in timeline for the Petition does not alter the due date of your renovation project maintence fee invoice. If you have not enrolled in one of the payment plans, paid your invoice in full, or chosen the cancellation option, you will be in default as of June 1/13.

I would also like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that this is a tough situation and that everyone, whether timeshare member or Northwynd employee, deserves to be treated fairly and professionally through this process. Our employees are simply trying to do their job to the best of their ability and that should not require them to be verbally abused or in some cases, threatened.

None of us own this company. I am a Chartered Accountant. My career, integrity, and professional reputation are far more valuable than this job. I would not have asked my staff to put in the long hours and face the negative reaction that was inevitable if I didn’t believe this was a fair solution to an otherwise untenable situation. My staff would not have agreed to the kind of work we have asked of them for the last month if they did not believe it was fair.

Over 75% of our customer service staff and all of senior management have been hired since Northwynd took over. We have been asked to fix a problem we did not create. We agreed to try because we see what Sunchaser Vacation Villas should be and we knew the alternative was unfair to everyone. We believe in the future of the resort and providing a level of quantity appropriate to the vacation interval you purchased.
We also believe in the reality that at some point in time, a timeshare owner will go from getting good value out of their vacation interval to no longer being able to use it and that when that happens, there has to be a fair way out.

You are allowed to disagree. However, you are not allowed to take it out on our staff. They are regular people, just like you, and they do not deserve to be treated like they have been. They deserve no less respect than the cashier at your local Tim Horton’s or your neighbour.

For the many owners who have given us positive feedback, whether it is a thank you for helping you understand the situation, recognition that it is a tough situation with no easy answers, thanking us for giving you an opportunity to cancel when none existed before, or just saying thanks for finally starting a renovation, we want to thank you. It is your kind words that we hold onto on a daily basis to remind us that we have created a program that is fair and that trying to solve this situation was the right decision.

Best regards
Kirk Wankel

 

[CleoB]

Why am I not surprised.

But on the other hand, it is the Trustee who petitioned the courts for direction. So in a way s/he has tipped the hand in addition to the outrageous demands by Northwynd/Northmount to extort monies from us.

Maybe they won't be such close friends after all this.

I suspect the trustee is just covering his ass.

 

[CleoB]

Just curious what everyone thinks will happen after this nightmare has been settled?

Just suppose that the courts find that the owners cannot be forced to pay the reno fees... I think we are left with a timeshare at a resort that is clearly becoming rundown, probably won't pull much for exchanges, and the maintenance fees will climb significantly in order to get the place fixed up.

There just doesn't seem to be a good outcome which ever way this goes.

We, as a group, could sue Northwynd.

 

[truthr]

Canada Timeshare News

here is a link to an article just written today about what is going on
http://www.insidethegate.com/gateho...aign=Feed:+insidethegate/IgKT+(The+GateHouse)

 

[truthr]

I suspect the trustee is just covering his ass.

I agree and I also agree that if we can somehow turn this into a class action suit of some sort it should be done.

 

[Chilliaces]

Which do I choose?

Northwynd has given us a great choice, either cut off both arms to stay or just one if you want to leave. A-holes.
As this thing snowballs, I hope the timeshare owners can get enough strength to run this company right out of business. In the email we received today, they seem to be under the impression that they gave use fair warning and its a fair deal for owners. This is a dictator living high on the hog and the peasants left to starve.
Their letter asked people to stop calling and giving their people such a hard time on the phone. Well then, maybe the people at the top should answer the phones so I can give them a piece of my mind.

 

[renoman]

We have a time share in Mexico. Five years and never an issue. We get monthly updates of what is being done to keep everything up to date and for new improvements. This year we were asked to pay an extra $100 in maintenance. We get 2 new pools and a new restaurant for that. To say thanks..we got $100 gift certificate for any of their amenities. Our fees are $750 a year. With all kinds of special offers for our friends and family. That is the way a time share should be run.

We also have two great timeshares in Mexico, where one night normally expect the kind of crap these guys are serving up. The Mexico ones are great. back to the current group of twits; just about as trustworthy and savvy as the average Senator.

I put my trust in the lawyers to sort it out.

 

[Spark1]

We, as a group, could sue Northwynd.

The only way you can get out of a timeshare is BREACH of contract, and they have breached my contract 5 different ways.
1/Late audited statements
2/Management
3/Trust set up for renovations
4/assessments
5/cancellation agreement

 

[den403]

Where is the money being held for the people are paying to stay. We know where the cash is from the people that leave

 

[truthr]

Where is the money being held for the people are paying to stay. We know where the cash is from the people that leave

I have been wondering that as well. If they were being transparent and accountable they would have set up a separate, at arms length, trust account.

And I also agree with the other poster regarding breach of contract.

Oh, I finally got the new email.

I also agree that no one should be threatening staff, but what did they expect the reactions to be with their bullying tactics. They expect us to just go along with this ridiculous scheme without fighting back.

 

[Maritimer]

Just curious what everyone thinks will happen after this nightmare has been settled?:

Interesting question RandRseeker.

The unfortunate reality is that the solution proposed by Northwynd is the best alternative in a bad situation. The other options are not pretty and guarantee everyone loses. We all signed contracts and share the liabilities we never expected to become reality.

It seems like a lot of money but is the only reasonable alternative to excessively higher maintenance fees in the future to keep patching-up and fixing. At least this way, we will have a quality, tradable resort when the major renovations are completed. A win-win for everyone.

 

[Judythreetimes]

Interesting question RandRseeker.

The unfortunate reality is that the solution proposed by Northwynd is the best alternative in a bad situation. The other options are not pretty and guarantee everyone loses. We all signed contracts and share the liabilities we never expected to become reality.

It seems like a lot of money but is the only reasonable alternative to excessively higher maintenance fees in the future to keep patching-up and fixing. At least this way, we will have a quality, tradable resort when the major renovations are completed. A win-win for everyone.

Northwynd bought this property knowing full well what state it was in. It appears that not even the basics of maintenance have been done at this resort for years. Where is the money? I don't feel it is a reasonable alternative. It is an atrocious amount of money they are asking for! They want us to pay them to get out? Are you kidding me?? I would rather lose this timeshare then ever associate with them again. But I sure as hell am not paying them to get out of a contract that they breached on so many counts. The more I delve into this, the more suspicious it is. They have used threats and intimidating emails, they have taken away member's holiday weeks for not paying these renovation fees, even though they have paid their maintenance for 2013. You think that is fair? It is not a reasonable alternative to just hand over more than $3000 to these people. In some cases, even more than that. You think the yearly maintenance fees aren't going to go way up in the future? Guess again.

 

[ERW]

I read the letter from Sunchasers yesterday. I agree taking it out on the staff is not any way to deal with the situation. We all maybe extremely angry about the whole mess, but yelling at someone answering the phones is not the way to go. I tell my staff that if someone calls and starts swearing, hang up. If they call back swearing, hang up again.

I am very curious how many are fighting this, how many have paid to stay, paid to go or just not responded? The time is long, long overdue to form a Timeshare Owners group. This would truly be the only way there could be one voice in regards to our time shares. From the rough numbers I've seen here, it appears 1500 (?) may be working with lawyers, no idea how many other are doing this independantly.

Anyone have any ideas or suggestions? Our leases have a provision to form such a group. That being said, I can't imagine how you would ever get 15,000 owners to agree on anything, but the option is there. Truth is, whomever would head up this group would likely end up being hated as much as those in control of Northwynd!

As far as Northwynd, they are in a pickle. They have taken on this resort and found it requires mega-work to get it ship-shape. My problem is they have handled this in the worst possible way. Not sure if they thought this all out and anticipated how much of a reaction they would receive or if they just thought by giving people an option to get out (albeit at a cost) they could get away with all of this. Honestly, I wouldn't have an issue paying for some of the renos if I knew a) the money was held in trust and would be paid out as reno work was done. b) this had all taken place AFTER the BC courts had given it the nod. c) there were assurances that this would be the last we would hear of with regards to reno fees. d) Northwynd would assume a large portion of the reno fees and they took over the resort, should have known what issues were facing the resort and only then decided if it was worth taking on. and e) known and was in agreement as far as what reno work will be done.

I see a number of people stating that they would be crazy to send collections people after the timeshare owners. I do not see it that way. I do not think it would happen until the court gives Northwynd the ok (if i eventually does) to proceed. But then at that point Northwynd would have no choice to go the collections route or they would not survive. Remember, don't think using YOUR logic, think using THEIR logic. Sad part of all this is if this does not get resolved in a reasonably timely manner, the resort is going to go down the tubes.

I still have 30 years of timeshare that I have not yet used. I don't want to see that happen. But I also can't justify paying reno and mtce fees every two year to the tune of $200. or $3000.

 

[Judythreetimes]

I read the letter from Sunchasers yesterday. I agree taking it out on the staff is not any way to deal with the situation. We all maybe extremely angry about the whole mess, but yelling at someone answering the phones is not the way to go. I tell my staff that if someone calls and starts swearing, hang up. If they call back swearing, hang up again.

I am very curious how many are fighting this, how many have paid to stay, paid to go or just not responded? The time is long, long overdue to form a Timeshare Owners group. This would truly be the only way there could be one voice in regards to our time shares. From the rough numbers I've seen here, it appears 1500 (?) may be working with lawyers, no idea how many other are doing this independantly.

Anyone have any ideas or suggestions? Our leases have a provision to form such a group. That being said, I can't imagine how you would ever get 15,000 owners to agree on anything, but the option is there. Truth is, whomever would head up this group would likely end up being hated as much as those in control of Northwynd!

As far as Northwund, they are in a pickle. They have taken on this resort and found it requires mega-work to get it ship-shape. My problem is they have handled this in the worst possible way. Not sure if they thought this all out and anticipated how much of a reaction they would receive or if they just thought by giving people an option to get out (albeit at a cost) they could get away with all of this. Honestly, I wouldn't have an issue paying for some of the renos if I knew a) the money was held in trust and would be paid out as reno work was done. b) this had all taken place AFTER the BC courts had given it the nod. c) there were assurances that this would be the last we would hear of with regards to reno fees. d) Northwynd would assume a large portion of the reno fees and they took over the resort, should have known what issues were facing the resort and only then decided if it was worth taking on. and e) known and was in agreement as far as what reno work will be done.

I see a number of people stating that they would be crazy to send collections people after the timeshare owners. I do not see it that way. I do not think it would happen until the court gives Northwynd the ok (if i eventually does) to proceed. But then at that point Northwynd would have no choice to go the collections route or they would not survive. Remember, don't think using YOUR logic, think using THEIR logic. Sad part of all this is if this does not get resolved in a reasonably timely manner, the resort is going to go down the tubes.

I still have 30 years of timeshare that I have not yet used. I don't want to see that happen. But I also can't justify paying reno and mtce fees every two year to the tune of $200. or $3000.

Amen to all of that.

 

[Spark1]

Amen to all of that.

That's right. The one to take it out with is Wankel, he is the one that is telling his staff that the petition only has to do with restructuring the resort and never mentions refurbishing the resort which is explained on item no. 177 page 8 of this forum. This is where they are trying to change our agreements which he can not do. Did you see him on Global Tv with his big mouth about maintenance fees should of been 300 to 400 dollars more. That would of taken our fees to 860.00 11 years ago. It would not matter one bit with some humans how much money you give them, because a crook is a crook and they will find a way to steal your money.

 

[Meow]

I suspect that since many of us have now been placed in default, Northwynd will eventually proceed through a collection agency. I don't think there is any way that process will be stopped while our case is mired in the Courts. I hope our lawyers can at least temporarily put a hold on collections. Our chance of success in the Courts is probably no better that 50%. Legal opinions to date have gone both ways. Who knows how the court will see it. I don't think Northwynd will give up easily. Because they probably just had a great infusion of cash they can hold out longer than we can. Once our various retainers are used up - how many of us are prepared to go the full distance?

 

[Tacoma]

My friends who could not take a chance on a credit hit decided they would pay to get out. Since we are in Calgary they went to the office to pay on Friday. The entire time they were there (around 40 minutes) they said the lineup was out the door with people paying to get out. This is just Calgary people who could go, I have to assume as large a number held their noses and mailed in a certified cheque. So I guess this was a smart move on their part to generously allow us to pay around $3000 to give our units back to them.

 

[ERW]

Would be interesting to know how many have caved and sold off their interest, how many have elected to stay and how many have taken the legal/do nothing for now position. It is unfortunate that many, many individuals do not see this or the FB page to realize that there are alternatives. But then some may know but choose to get out while they can with a minimum of fuss.

 

[truthr]

Unfortunately no one really "sold off"; they paid to hopefully get rid of it.

I say hopefully because until they actually receive the release papers they are still classified as owners and who knows what that means.

Also this court extension can be a two edged sword - if enough people request the "opt-out" option, Northwynd just may have the ammunition to get the courts to sanction what they want to do.

I read somewhere that although you can choose to opt out and pay the amount, that they still have the option to put a cap on the number they allow to opt out.

It is the sneakiness and underhanded, lack of transparency/accountability that sends up all kinds of red flags for me with this supposed deal.

They have had 3+ years with all kinds of professionals working on how to best handle all these and yet they spring this on us and expect, no DEMAND an answer in less than 30 days with a whole lot of ambiguity as to what may or may not transpire but if we don't jump to their command they threaten our reputations/credit etc.

Edited to add: This reminds of the bullies in the school yard taking others' lunch money/lunch, beating them etc.

 

[pdoff]

I wonder what maintenace fees are for the rest of the Timeshare world? Mountainside, across the road say there maintenace fees are less and - they have a good reserve fund. I think they had a flood last year too.(#294).
We have watched the maintenance fees increase over 150% since we purchased. A fast talking salesman (back in the early 90's) even said the maintenance fees should decrease as more people bought timeshares! Ha Ha
They are certainly too high for us to continue - let alone this added money grab. Losing what is left of our original investment is punishment enough.
Originally there was to be one week a year for each unit not to be used to refurbish and update. I don't think the window coverings or bedspreads have been changed ever in the unit we last stayed in.
The former owners and the new owners spread themselves thin by getting more resorts all over the place - I wonder if our maintenance fees/reserve funds were being used for this as well as lining the pockets of various owners?

 

[Chilliaces]

Maint fees elsewhere

I find it interesting that Northwynd says our maint fees should have been much higher the last several years and then we could have avoided this situation. I have 2 annual timeshares at Fairmont and 2 other ones as well. Northwynd is the highest right now. I pay Northwynd over $900 per year for each one in Fairmont and the others are around $750 per year. At this point I would be happy just to let these go because I am afraid of what the fees are going to be next year and in the years to come. The only thing is, I am not going to "pay them" to take them from me so that they can take my money, fix them up, and then sell them off as condos.

 

[truthr]

My apologies if this has been addressed before but I just thought of something.

If this huge project does happen:

Firstly - will that not disrupt anyone who wishes to vacation at the resort during the time of construction?

Secondly - shouldn't it lower future maintenance fees as the whole resort will be brand new?

Thirdly - if more people opt out than in will there not be less units available and possibly less amenities? Thereby making the resort less desirable for exchange?

Also since we are even biennial we have not yet received an invoice. I wonder how many of those exist and are not worrying about this yet because they don't know whether they need to respond or not. I would think it would be difficult if not impossible for them to say we are in default of something we have not received.

Maybe the June court date will help to clarify this whole mess. I know we are at a loss as to how to proceed.

 

[Pita]

I gave up

I only owned a Biennial prime week so it was easier to exit than put up with the extended agony and risk to any credit report as I still need my banks for business purposes. Looking at some of the other forums on the TUG BBS, there are a lot of other timeshares where people are finding it impossible to exit. Lots of incentives are being offered for someone to take over their worthless timeshares.

I was wondering if this means that Northwynd now owns all the these timeshares that we paid to exit? Are they paying their proportionate share of the upgrades as the new owners these units.......assuming they are choosing to stay!! Unfortunately, it also gives them a big block of votes for any future "survey" they may use to justify their future extortion of funds.

I paid my maintenance fees last year in order to book my unit for this Sept. I think that I will still be able to use my week since I paid their ransom demand. It would mean that I paid approximately, $2,600 for the privilege of using my timeshare. I just checked on II for a Getaway at Riverside and found that the same time period that I booked is available for $607.!!

I truly admire and respect all of the owners that are taking Northwynd to task on this and past mismanagement. Hope all the lawyers are successful in their arguments. I am only afraid that this might be a case of winnig the battle but losing the war!! I think most of the owners that signed up want to get out without paying. I dread to see that will be left of the timeshare when this all ends.

 

[Fly525]

One discussion that I have not seen on this site is "Is there any amount those wishing to surrender their leases would be willing to pay?"

The item I object to the most is the "Base Cancellation Fee." Page 3 of the April 12, 2013 letter (Internet version), reads as follows: "If you wish to cancel your Vacation Interval Agreement, you will be charged a cancellation fee intended to address four items: 1) Lost property management fees: We have estimated foregone fees based on the 2012 property management fee and a 20 year maximum on fees, ........." Lines 2), 3) and 4) are at least understandable.

It is unconscionable that Northwynd is trying to collect "foregone management fees" a lease that they wouldn't be managing because the owner had surrendered it. When they re sell the lease, the new owner would be responsible for maintenance fees and the 15% management fee would be derived from those fees.

Personally, I'd be happy to pay my share of the 2012 Operating Budget deficit, administration and trustee fees. It works out to $691.19 ($658.28 + GST) for an annual Two Bed lease. This would be a much better solution than defaulting and would completely clear any obligations I committed to on my original leases.