2010 Maintenance Fee Thread

[DeniseM]

2010 operating assessment $722.60
2010 replacement reserve $172.01

Total $894.61 (not including the $5 ARDA contribution)

So this is a Plat season week and what size is the unit? - Thanks!

 

[Sthack]

SVR-Fountains II - 2bd

2010 Operating Assessment = $705.49
2010 Replacement Reserve = $106.82
2010 Estimated Real Estate Tax = $130.21
2010 SVN Membership fee = $109.00

Grand Total = $1,051.52

I can't recall what 2009 MF were, but I know it did not include a comma.......it was less than $1,000.

 

[DavidnRobin]

The 2009 MFs are listed in MSC.

 

[DeniseM]

The 2009 MFs are listed in MSC.

And most are listed in Starwood Owner Resources, at the top of the page.

 

[Twinkstarr]

So this is a Plat season week and what size is the unit? - Thanks!

Sorry, Plat. season and it's a dedicated 2br. Will edit my post.

 

[Cdntraveller]

There is some really perverse logic here.....kierland maintenance fees grew at 7-8% in the good times (in theory to cover the escalating costs in an overheated market), and are now growing 7-8% in the down times as well (to cover all of the legal costs, delinquencies, and rental vacancies). Other resorts are much higher. The mailout says they will review the loss provisions in the future and may reduce them accordingly.....doubtful this will happen. But if it does, the cost reduction would benefit new owners who have not had to fund the losses in prior years.

You are absolutely right....if there are unused weeks due to unpaid maintenance fees, these should be going entirely to the benefit of the owners who are shouldering the losses. The weeks should be rented out with the proceeds being credited 100% towards the MF's. If owners aren't paying their MF's within a very short grace period, the weeks should automatically be put up for rent asap.

 

[DavidnRobin]

There is some really perverse logic here.....kierland maintenance fees grew at 7-8% in the good times (in theory to cover the escalating costs in an overheated market), and are now growing 7-8% in the down times as well (to cover all of the legal costs, delinquencies, and rental vacancies). Other resorts are much higher. The mailout says they will review the loss provisions in the future and may reduce them accordingly.....doubtful this will happen. But if it does, the cost reduction would benefit new owners who have not had to fund the losses in prior years.

You are absolutely right....if there are unused weeks due to unpaid maintenance fees, these should be going entirely to the benefit of the owners who are shouldering the losses. The weeks should be rented out with the proceeds being credited 100% towards the MF's. If owners aren't paying their MF's within a very short grace period, the weeks should automatically be put up for rent asap.

There are no new owners at WKV - the resort is pretty much sold out except for a few random VOIs here and there (silver season) and they are way expensive.
They will only refund the SVO management association according to the CCRs - which is pretty muddy - but it wil not happen as you propose - the best an owner can hope for is some sort of repayment of MFs (minus admin cost).

 

[Cdntraveller]

By new owners, I meant resale....as fees go up, more and more people will bail.

 

[DavidnRobin]

By new owners, I meant resale....as fees go up, more and more people will bail.

Got it. If someone sells their WKV to a (resale) buyer, then the benefit and loss is between the buyer/seller as it is with all aspects of any transaction - someone will have to pay that MF at somepoint with a resale transaction - the real question is what happens to the deliquent units put into SVN, II, or rented by SVO - or upon default - how are those past due MFs compensated to the management association (which in theory represents the owners)?

 

[DanCali]

By new owners, I meant resale....as fees go up, more and more people will bail.

Yes, if you sell your TS today and if there is a future reduction in MFs the new owners benefit from it - so what? You think they should pay that back?

A new owner could also get slapped with a special assessment a few months after they buy and that would be on all the wear and tear that was caused during the time you owned - would you pay them back for that?

You can take that further and say that the new owner should pay all the resreves you paid over the years too... The more things you bring up in a negotiation the more likely a buyer is to walk away - it's best to just worry about the price and closing costs.

 

[DavidnRobin]

By new owners, I meant resale....as fees go up, more and more people will bail.

If people bail on their Plat WKV - then they do not realize that these VOIs have value both as rentals and SVN exchangers way above their MFs - even the SO-SP conversion isn't all that bad. For Silver season ownership - I could see why they would bail (why they bought in the 1st place is questionable), and to a lesser extent Gold season owners. Silver and Gold owners bailing out will however affect all Owners based on how the system is set-up.

 

[RLG]

Sheraton Mountain Vista

Fees for annual units at Sheraton Mountain Vista excluding SVN or ARDA fees:


Small 1br 651.11
Large 1br 810.01
2br lockoff 1160.92


(EOY's are 50% of these plus $20)

These represent approximately a 5% increase. Much better than last year's 27%.

 

[DeniseM]

Fees for annual units at Sheraton Mountain Vista excluding SVN or ARDA fees:


Small 1br 651.11
Large 1br 810.01
2br lockoff 1160.92


(EOY's are 50% of these plus $20)

These represent approximately a 5% increase. Much better than last year's 27%.

Can you please look at this post, and tell me the difference between what you posted for a 2 bdm. and what the other poster listed - is the other one a dedicated 2 bdm.?

 

[RLG]

Can you please look at this post, and tell me the difference between what you posted for a 2 bdm. and what the other poster listed

The actual bill is the same, but there are two things different in the presentation.

1) He included the ARDA fee which I excluded. (I really wish we could make it clear that everyone should leave this and the SVN fee out. It makes it difficult to do comparisons year-to-year or across properties when these are included some of the time.)

2) All of my bills include something called "prior year tax credit". For the 2br this is 24.38. It looks like they charge owners an estimated property tax for 2010 and any difference between the estimated and actual is charged/credited in the following year. Since it probably will appear every year, I treated this as a 2010 item rather than a retroactive reduction in 2009 maintenance.

 

[WalnutBaron]

WPORV 2010 MF's--2 BR


2010--$2,464.52 (sorry, no detail yet as this is from MSC)
2009--$2,250.99

% Increase 9.5

In the deflationary economy we've been through in the past twelve months, this is rather alarming. Just wait until inflation kicks in...I shudder to think of what our wonderful BOD will do.

 

[DeniseM]

2010--$2,464.52 (sorry, no detail yet as this is from MSC)
2009--$2,250.99

% Increase 9.5

In the deflationary economy we've been through in the past twelve months, this is rather alarming. Just wait until inflation kicks in...I shudder to think of what our wonderful BOD will do.

Can you please cut and paste the breakdown from MSC?

 

[WalnutBaron]

Can you please cut and paste the breakdown from MSC?

Denise, the breakdown is not yet available. Right now, it's showing up on MSC as "Projected Fees For Next Year". I will post details when they become available.

 

[pathways25]

Denise, the breakdown is not yet available. Right now, it's showing up on MSC as "Projected Fees For Next Year". I will post details when they become available.

I don't think WPORV has posted yet. The "Projected Fees For Next Year" are just a repeat of this year which is $2250.99 MF + $113.53 SVN/tax + $100.00 "other" = $2464.52.

 

[DeniseM]

I don't think WPORV has posted yet. The "Projected Fees For Next Year" are just a repeat of this year which is $2250.99 MF + $113.53 SVN/tax + $100.00 "other" = $2464.52.

Yes - that's what is showing for the Maui resorts too, and from past experience, we know that it could change completely.

 

[harzim]

Maintenance Fee Question

As I'm sure you all did, I just got my maintenance fee bill for 2010. As you know, it isn't due until January. However, they are offering incentives to pay early. My quick look said there is no real benefit anything being offered and I shouldn't pay early. What do you guys think? Thanks.

 

[DeniseM]

There are three contests (during 3 different timeframes) that you can enter, plus two 50% off coupons.

The hotel coupon is worthless, the TS coupon may have some value - this is the first time I've seen a TS coupon offered.

I own 3 Starwood TS's and I have to pay the MF's anyway, so I am going to pay them during the 3 timeframes for the 3 contests - might as well.

 

[nodge]

Data point: The 50% off SVO villa coupons ARE worthless.

We know the hotel coupon is worthless, but I wonder what the "real" value of the other coupon is?

I need an extra night at WKV in Scottsdale in March, so I called SVO and asked them what the 50% off SVO owner rate would be for that night. The SVO agent didn’t know, but said there is a special SPG hot line for owners (1-877-782-0067) wanting to take advantage of this deal.

So I called SPG and here is the nightly rate of a large one bedroom villa at Westin Kierland for the night of March 27th under the various available rate plans:

Current American Express Promotion Rate (Rate Code: WRLR01): $ 117/night (3 night minimum and maximum, must book by Nov. 15th)
AAA Rate (appears under “'promotions' on SPG.com not ‘AAA’): $199/night
SVN Owners’ Discount Rate: $298/night (per SPG rep)
“Best Available Rate”: $539/night (per web site)
Rack Rate: $799/night (per SPG rep)

and the 50% off SVO owners’ rate coupon rate is . . . . . . drum roll please . . . . .



$399/night!!!! (50% off the rack rate)

I read the SPG guy the verbiage from MSC which said the coupon was good for “50% off your special Owner rate.” So I said “it sounds to me that if the owner rate is $298, wouldn’t the coupon price be $149/night at WKV?” He said flat out, and I quote: “NO. It’s like the SPG50 coupons for hotels, which is 50% off the rack rate. The coupon isn’t a good deal for you here.”

FYI,
-nodge

BTW, according to the guy I spoke with at SVO before calling SPG, SPG will be mailing out both (hotel and timeshare) “discount coupons” sometime towards the end of the year, and you’ll need the code on the back of them to book this great “deal.”

 

[DeniseM]

Why am I NOT surprised!

Isn't that flat our false advertising? More quality service from Starwood management!

But I'm SURE I'm going to win at least one of those contests!

 

[nodge]

Why am I NOT surprised!

Isn't that flat our false advertising? More quality service from Starwood management!

But I'm SURE I'm going to win at least one of those contests!

I printed out (and stored for safe keeping) the page of MSC that says:

"Exceptional vacation reqards await you. When you pay your maintenance fees early and in full, you'll receive two valuable vacation certificates:

50% off your special Owner rate at participating Starwood Vacation Ownership resorts*

50% off retail rates at participating Starwood hotels and resorts.

[...]

* 50% off certificate does not include Harborside Resrot at Atlantis, Lakeside Terrace and Villas of Cave Creek."

Let 's hope the SPG guy was just misinformed. Otherwise, if any out of work attorneys out there are looking for something to do, we may have something to keep you busy.

-nodge

hint hint: I'm pretty sure attorney's fees are recoverable under most consumer protection statutes. That could be your first project -- verify that.

 

[MON2REY]

Current American Express Promotion Rate (Rate Code: WRLR01): $ 117/night (3 night minimum and maximum, must book by Nov. 15th)

Nodge, where did you find this AMEX rate? Does the rate code work for other locations (e.g. WKORV)?