[2009] White Sands Waikiki Resort Club

[DK09]

questions

There are so many questions about how celebrity/white sands has been doing business the past few years, particularly with finances. I think we should all start posting/listing them, see if we can do some investigation. someone make up a master list and we can use it to dispute the s.a. when we get the next bill with the 25 late fee added on. At this stage we can't let out guard down. I have an email to Queen Emma Land Co. asking for info and will see what that brings up.

 

[Blackwhat]

FTC complaint

I was disappointed when I called the FTC this AM. After giving her my reference number the gal I talked with implied they will only act after they have determined a trend regarding a specific issue. The more people complaining the more likely a trend will be discovered. She referred me to the BBB and Attorney General in Hawaii. I mentioned that I thought the possibility of mail fraud existed but she was not impressed.
Possibly if all of us filed a new complaint with the FTC on the same day and specifically stuck to the 2008 or 2009 budget and billing regarding property taxes and the difference between them we might carry some weight. She also mentioned that since Celebrity has not responded to my letters I should contact an attorney. Yeh! If I enjoyed paying attorneys fees I would have resorted to that a long time ago.
Filing a complaint is fairly easy since the form is available on the web site.
The important thing is that the complaints are received on a timely bases and refer specifically to the same company and the same issue. Then hope that all the complaints arrive at the same desk on the same day and about the same time.
I wonder if it might pay to ask Celebrity why the difference in billing and proposed budget. The problem is that we will probably not get an explanation since they do not respond to the simplest of questions.
The same letter could be sent to the Attorney General in Hawaii.
Blackwhat,

 

[Blackwhat]

Re: letter from Celebrity

Hello D.
Yesterday I received a letter from Ann Thompson in Orlando. One and 1/2 pages of much to do about nothing. In it she makes a statement that should the resort need to be closed prematurely you will be offered your week at another Celebrity Resorts location. That is what she also told Mr. Dawson at the Orlando Sentinal but that was never mentioned to the other members to my knowledge.
In response to my request for a copy of the by-laws I will need to send a check for $2.75 to cover cost. That is certainly reasonable but can I trust them to send the documents once I have paid for them? They may be out of business by then and it has taken over a month to answer my first letter.
Her main emphasis seems to be on renewing the lease with Queen Emma (who cares!!) and encouraging members to book their stay prior to April 30. However in the same paragraph she says they are unable to accept any reservations made beyond April 30. That seems to be a conflicting statement.
She does state that, I quote:
"The by-laws inform all members of the Association of Members of White Sands Waikiki Resort Club's (The Association) rights to adjust the fees to meet the maintenance requirements for the Resort."
In the billing for the special assessment all I saw was reference to bad debt and projected deficit.
There was mention of severance pay for employees. That would imply to me that Celebrity has knowledge that employees will not be around thru the end of the year. If they are should we get a refund?
Should we get a refund if the projected deficit is less than expected. That whole bill is an affront to the common sense and intelligence of the members.
We deserve an explanation based on common sense.and Celebrity does not address them. They have a procedure they follow and I guess one of the policies is not to answer questions but to threaten financial penalties.
John Black-what

 

[DK09]

tax bill

For anyone keeping tabs on Celebrity/White Sands-Waikiki....
The overdue tax bill is now an extra $402.32 due to penalties and interest.
As of today they still have not paid it. It is not right that they should be expecting us to pay for their very poor financial planning.

 

[DK09]

deficit reduction

Did anyone notice that on the proposed budget for 2008 (mf) there is a charge on it for deficit reduction assessment which "is to cure an outstanding deficit from prior years". So how do they charge us again on the special assessment for operating deficit, bad debt, etc.?

 

[Blackwhat]

Is bad debt due to developer?

The developer to my knowledge owns over 1000 units. Has he paid the more than $695,000 he owes due to the special assessment billing. Lets write a letter to Ann Thompson and Mr. Lewis requesting an answer. If the developer has paid the $695,000 plus change why hasn't the management company paid the entire tax bill or even one half of it in order to avoid the penalties for being late. The tax bill only amounts to three and 3/4 percent of the $695000. It does not make sense that we would be responsible for paying for the bad debt and/or arrears of the developer.
PS: Are the developer and Celebrity one and the same?

 

[rickandjenn]

Division of Florida Condominiums, Timeshares, and Mobile Homes

It would appear that the AG for Florida sent my complaint to the above department, which is part of the Florida Department of Business and Professional Regulation. According to the letter, they have opened an investigation file on my behalf, with a complaint # 2009016569.

They do state that their authority is somewhat limited, but they will research...

 

[DK09]

letter

glad to hear that you at least got a response.I hope for a good outcome...
I am in the process of sending a copy of all my correspondence to the AG in Hawaii, the dept of justice in wisconsin and a few other places so hopefully someone will take a serious look at this.
keep us posted

 

[Blackwhat]

encouraging

Keep those cards and letters flowing
Blackwhat

 

[DK09]

tax bill

The tax bill for the resort on 2-2-09 was $ 12,940.02
As of 4-4-09 the tax bill is now $ 14,123.31
a difference of .....
.......someone else do the math!
Guess who has to pay?!

 

[DK09]

letter from anne thompson

so did anyone else get a letter today from Anne Thompson re the special assessment?
Received mine today.
points
-the by-laws inform all members rights to adjust the fees to meet the maintenance requirments for the resort (who is this board of directors)
-You are a members until Dec 31, 2009 and thereby obligated to all fees and interest.....of course they can break the contract by not allowing us use of the property through the alloted time
-no reservatios can be made beyond 5-1-08 due to depleting fundsl we encourage all owers to book their stay prior to 5-30-09 (doesn't comprehend that taking vacation time and booking flights is pretty impossible at such short notice-much less the fact that they don't have that many weeks available at the same time for owners) or you can deposit your time with RCI (only if you are a member and pay your SA)
she also sent me my bill back and a copy of my assurance certificates.

 

[DK09]

Hello D.
Yesterday I received a letter from Ann Thompson in Orlando. One and 1/2 pages of much to do about nothing. In it she makes a statement that should the resort need to be closed prematurely you will be offered your week at another Celebrity Resorts location. That is what she also told Mr. Dawson at the Orlando Sentinal but that was never mentioned to the other members to my knowledge.
In response to my request for a copy of the by-laws I will need to send a check for $2.75 to cover cost. That is certainly reasonable but can I trust them to send the documents once I have paid for them? They may be out of business by then and it has taken over a month to answer my first letter.
Her main emphasis seems to be on renewing the lease with Queen Emma (who cares!!) and encouraging members to book their stay prior to April 30. However in the same paragraph she says they are unable to accept any reservations made beyond April 30. That seems to be a conflicting statement.
She does state that, I quote:
"The by-laws inform all members of the Association of Members of White Sands Waikiki Resort Club's (The Association) rights to adjust the fees to meet the maintenance requirements for the Resort."
In the billing for the special assessment all I saw was reference to bad debt and projected deficit.
There was mention of severance pay for employees. That would imply to me that Celebrity has knowledge that employees will not be around thru the end of the year. If they are should we get a refund?
Should we get a refund if the projected deficit is less than expected. That whole bill is an affront to the common sense and intelligence of the members.
We deserve an explanation based on common sense.and Celebrity does not address them. They have a procedure they follow and I guess one of the policies is not to answer questions but to threaten financial penalties.
John Black-what

must have been the same basic letter I got, only she didn't offer a stay at any other celebrity resort

 

[MARTIN59]

special assessment

Hello,
I have only just discovered tis forum, and it is a relief I did.
I live in England and sought legal advise on the matter.
My worries went a lot further than just losing my annual maintenance for 2009 and interval,which I paid on time as always for the past 24 years.

Certainly not paying more money to be lost down some black hole and still no
guarantee of a week at white sands.

The worst scenario is My wife and I could be refused entry yo the USA on arrival at customs, where we could be on the sytem as bad debtors. Worse still could be arrested. So Ineed to know if they could do that?

A letter was sent to the CEO of celebrity Resorts in Orlando, saying we would not be paying any S.A. and the company were "IN BREACH OF CONTRACT"
If we were not allowed to have our requested week for 2009, then we would like a refund( NO chance of that I know ). We would be sueing them otherwise.

Also we have sent a letter with copies of celebrities demands to our credit card company whom we paid the 2009 maintenace with. We have asked them to fight our corner.

We are willing to send letters to apropriate agencies if it helps the group.


Martin

 

[Blackwhat]

Welcome aboard Martin

Glad to have you join the group Martin. As you can see there are a lot of messages posted over the past couple of months on this thread regarding White Sands.
Regarding your situation and customs I am not familiar with the
possibilities but I do not think you could be arrested in the USA for bad debt.
Some of us have written to the Attorney General of the States of Florida and Hawaii. There is some question as to the reliability of the figures on the special assessment billing plus some of the other expenditures on the proposed budget for 2009.
You may have noticed that all the spewcioal assessment items refer to bad debt and or projected deficit.
Address for Hawaii:
Office of Attorney General
425 Queesn St.
Honolulu, Hawaii 96813

Regards, Black-what

 

[MARTIN59]

Thanks Blackwhat,
whom should I address the letter to?
in the AG's office.

Regards
Martin

 

[Blackwhat]

For Martin

Attorney Generals name is Mark Bennett.

You may be able to find out more by going to www.Hawaii.gov
Blackwhat

 

[mxsenior]

My problem with this whole thing is that there are a lot of interesting and hidden things going on. they changed the name of the resort from Celebrity Resorts to White Sands Development LLC in July 2008--did they tell anyone? no
http://hbe.ehawaii.gov/documents/business.html?fileNumber=27213C5&view=documents

Also the Business Registration Division in Hawaii shows "this business is not in good standing" problem there
http://hbe.ehawaii.gov/documents/business.html?fileNumber=27213C5&view=documents

our original certificates -signed and dated 2-11-80 were for 28 years.
which would have left us done on 2-11-08. It now states 12-31-09 and the letter wants to extend this time to 3-2010. they are just looking for someone to pay to keep the resort going so that they can -as rumor has it- remodel in May and open up as a nightly rental hotel/resort

we are not paying and will send a letter to them in March listing our reasons.

"something is rotten in the state of Denmark"

I bought into this resort from the original owner. I have the original owner certificate which is dated 3/18/80 for a term of 28 years. Which means it should have been done a year ago. However the certificate they issued me after I purchased from the original owner says expiration is 31 dec. 09. How can they extend my time. Why would they do it? Something is fishy.

 

[Blackwhat]

dispute assessment

If you are a RTU owner you should write a letter to the address on the rear of the billing statement for the special assessment and inform them that you dispute the reliability of the listed items and until you are given a satisfactory explanation and verification of the items listed you can not in good conscience put good money after bad (or something to that effect). This may hold off a collection agency since an amount in dispute is not something they normally want to deal with since it can involve Federal agencies when not handled according to the law.
Everyone should do it without question, as it will give notice to the collection agency when the time comes and you send them a copy of your dispute letter and they receive a ton of them in total from you and everyone else.
Black-what

 

[rickandjenn]

Address for Division of Fl Condo, Timeshares & Mobile Homes

Hi, I have had a couple of requests for the address of the department that the FL AG sent my complaint lette to, so here it is:

Bureau of Compliance
400 W Robinson St
Suite N 908
Orlando, FL 32801-1736

Shelia.fields@dbpr.state.fl.us

My complaint # is 2009016569. It might help if we tie all the complaints together...

 

[Blackwhat]

ARDA warning

I wrote a letter to ARDA (American Resort Development Assoc.) back on March 13, 2009 in the form of a complaint against Celebrity Resorts. To date I have not received a reply.
Yesterday I perused the Celebrity web site and came across a list of Celebrity brass including pictures and a brief resume.
The reason I have not received a reply is possibly due to the
fact that C. Graig Lewis the Vice President at Celebrity serves in a few official positions at ARDA. He has probably been made aware of my complaint letter by now.
Black-what

 

[DK09]

conflict

I wrote a letter to ARDA (American Resort Development Assoc.) back on March 13, 2009 in the form of a complaint against Celebrity Resorts. To date I have not received a reply.
Yesterday I perused the Celebrity web site and came across a list of Celebrity brass including pictures and a brief resume.
The reason I have not received a reply is possibly due to the
fact that C. Graig Lewis the Vice President at Celebrity serves in a few official positions at ARDA. He has probably been made aware of my complaint letter by now.
Black-what

Sounds like a bit of a conflict of interest to me...

 

[gumimat]

Celebrity - how to pressure them

There is another way we can pressure Celebrity. We can post reviews for ALL their resorts telling other people what they have done to us in Hawaii. This way we can warn others who may want to stay at or buy a Celebrity timeshare. If we post enough comments - we can have a strong impact on their efforts to sell other timeshare units. We must do this to make sure the word is out about Celebrity. They changed their name in Hawaii to avoid the negative publicity about their doings there.

 

[Blackwhat]

Celebrity Threads

It is a great idea to post complaints of Celebrity on their Resorts threads. However there are so many members that are probably not aware that threads exist. In looking around the web I have found a few forums and have posted a few messages.
Possibly we should post on this tug site the address of the forum whenever we find a thread within a forum that we find may be useful; or at least directions on how to get to the forum.

I have found on a couple of forums you can log in as a guest by giving your name and e-mail address and nothing more to post a message. search for "Celebrity Resorts" on the web and select Timeshare discussion forums: redweek.com. Then select timeshare companies. I set up a message beforehand and copied to clipboard so the same message could be "pasted" whenever I hit a forum that looks interesting. I am off to a slow start but I like the idea of not creating a new message every time.
**** The following is a E-mail I sent to Ann Thompson today to keep her on her toes. Do likewise!
I still have not received the copy of the by laws I sent for. Also have you looked into my request for a copy of the annual audit and information regarding the developers payment of the special assessment.and his annual dues? Also what is the status of the possible renewing of the lease at Waikiki.
Please keep me informed
Blackwhat

 

[Blackwhat]

White Sands Closing?

It is a great idea to post complaints of Celebrity on their Resorts threads. However there are so many members that are probably not aware that threads exist. In looking around the web I have found a few forums and have posted a few messages.
Possibly we should post on this tug site the address of the forum whenever we find a thread within a forum that we find may be useful; or at least directions on how to get to the forum.

I have found on a couple of forums you can log in as a guest by giving your name and e-mail address and nothing more to post a message. search for "Celebrity Resorts" on the web and select Timeshare discussion forums: redweek.com. Then select timeshare companies. I set up a message beforehand and copied to clipboard so the same message could be "pasted" whenever I hit a forum that looks interesting. I am off to a slow start but I like the idea of not creating a new message every time.
**** The following is a E-mail I sent to Ann Thompson today to keep her on her toes. Do likewise!
I still have not received the copy of the by laws I sent for. Also have you looked into my request for a copy of the annual audit and information regarding the developers payment of the special assessment.and his annual dues? Also what is the status of the possible renewing of the lease at Waikiki.
Please keep me informed
Blackwhat

Latest word I understand is that Celebrity will close the White Sands Waikiki resort to members on May 3, 2009. If this is true then I wonder if Celebrity will rent the units as a hotel until they get their ducks in a row. I wonder how much the developer is in arrears since his share of the Special assessment would be over $695,000. Does the "PROJECTED Deficit" remain at $1,150,000 if they close? That was some projection they made with no explanation. Are we entitled to an accounting of the funds?Blackwhat

 

[JeffW]

Latest word I understand is that Celebrity will close the White Sands Waikiki resort to members on May 3, 2009...

3

If true, will owners who paid the S/A will get their money back?