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[2009] White Sands Waikiki Resort Club

JeffW

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I finally got my father to call White Sands to try to deposit whatever usage he still might have. Unfortunately, since the wording of the S/A was "payable upon receipt of the letter", that's now considered an unpaid balance on his account. Like any unpaid balance, they won't deposit a week with RCI until the payment has been settled. [To a big degree this is my father's fault, as he should have just banked it right after he paid the annual fee.]

The person he talked to (not sure if at White Sands HNL or an office on the mainland) said that he heard, "the resort will be shutting down Dec 31", I think basically an acknowledgement that the previous link about the Queen Emma Land Co. redevelopment will cause White saids operations to stop.

My father and I speculated on some issues:

1. A chunk of the SA funds were listed for "2010 operations". Doesn't there need to be an official announcment at some point as to whether 2010 operations will exist (looks like 'NO')? If so, at a minimum, wouldn't they need to redo the SA amount?

2. Based on likely poor S/A payment rates, is White Sands likely to say, "It was overwhelmingly rejected, we are cancelling it'? If they do that, they should be liable to return money anyone paid (or a prorated portion of 2010 expenses). However, if they don't do that:
a) they could keep the money
b) they could keep many of the remaining weeks (figuring owners won't pay the S/A to either occupy or bank them)
c) everyone could have an unpaid debt against their credit.

I think my father said his usage was "April to November" (seems like a big window). If correct, then he will still have the entire Summer for the S/A fiasco to fall apart, allowing the week to maybe be usable.

It still shocks me that there was someone on the board that said, "It's stupid to expect people to pay an extra fee for a resort which more than likely is closing." Really smells of desparation.

Jeff
 

DK09

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There cannot be any 2010 operations as the latest contract states you only have a RTU until Dec. 31, 2009. They can't keep extending just for their money purposes.
No one I have talked to is paying and we will just have to deal with the debt on our credit.
If you try to book after May 1, whether as an owner or online as a guest, they are not taking any reservations. Don't expect any money back from them.
As you have paid your maintenance fee for 2009 you probably can't get a room there unless your stay is before May 1 and you pay the s/a.
it really is a circus.
 

Blackwhat

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Complain to RICO

I am new to TUG but am very thankful for this opportunity.
I have filed a complaint with the Regulated Industries Complaints Office (RICO) in Honolulu and the Professional and Vocatioal Licensing Div. Dept of Consumer Affairs also in Honolulu. Their addresses are:

Regulated Industries Complaints Office
Dept. of Consumer Affairs
236 South Beretania St. ninth floor
Honolulu, Hawaii 96813

Time Share Administrator
Professional and Vocational Licensing Division
PO Box 3469
Honolulu, Hawaii 96801

In making a complaint to the latter I made reference to the letter which accompanied the assessment bill. In it the assoc and or Celebrity implies that they cannot quarantee use of the week we are entitled to. HAR chapter 106-4 section D item (2D) may have some bearing in regard to the plan managers ressponsibility. (HAR= Hawaii Administrative Rules) Search on internet will find complete text.
In regard to RICO my complaint questions the details lacking in the bill and the fact that the letter implies that there is no guarantee a unit will be available since they may become insolvent. More later.
Blackmail-- Sorry! I meant Blackwhat
 
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Blackwhat

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Proxy form

I found a proxy statement on the internet dates 2/03/09. I did not receive one and on reading it found it referenced HRS 514B-123 which specifically relates condominiums. There is a separate
chapter (HRS514E) that relates to timeshares. In the original disclosure statement we received in 1983 item 6 it states "White Sands is a resort hotel and not a condominium".
The proxy also makes reference to a "DEED". We users do not have a deed. I was never informed that there was a commingling of different types of owners withing the Assoc. of members of White Sands Resort Club. To find proxy search for white sands assoc on internet.
As the saying goes I feel something is rotten in Denmark.
Blackwhat
 

DK09

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great info. I too will write to the addresses listed....those are great sources.
 

Blackwhat

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Collections

The last assessment about 4 years ago provided us with some insite (meager as it may be) into the tactics used by this "GANG".
We were hounded by a collection agency and it seems if I remember correctly each month the interest kept accumulating.

Finally we caved in and paid up after negotating a smaller amount
of fees. At the time I had become aware of the Time Share PLan Chapter 514E of the Hawaian revised statutes which in my impression highly favors the developer and or the association in regards as to who pays for what.
It also implies that the association could file a suit for a judgement against assests such as bank accounts and real property. That is the real unknown.
My original letter requesting an explanation of the recent assessment has not been answered. IT was received on Feb. 20th and I have confirmation of receipt. I also sent another letter letting them know that we dispute their demand for payment of a special assessment. It was only mailed on 3/2/09 so we have not received confirmation as yet. This last letter was sent to the Phoenix office since that is where the bill came from and that is where they indicated inquiries should be made.I had better close as my 15 minutes is about to expire . MOre later Blackwhat
 

Blackwhat

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Collections part2

In the past I have written numerous letters and made many phone calls and have never received a response. Even C. Craig Lewis a president at Celebrity has no regard for the members as he does not respond either.
As far as the board of the Association of members, I don't believe there are more than two or three board members and I am sure that whoever or whatever ownes the 1000 units is the only guy that counts. He has a twenty five percent majority before any vote is taken.
Of course Madoff with his 50 billion scam is hard to beat.
Blackwhat
 

Blackwhat

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Confusion abounds at the White Sands

Another point I would like to address is the relationship of the entities involved. We have 1.White Sands Waikiki Resort Club, 2. Association of Members of White Sands Waikiki Resort Club, 3.White Sands Management LLC, 4.Assoc Members White Sands Waikiki, 5. White Sands Waikiki Resort Club Association, Inc.,
6. Celebrity Resorts Waikiki Association of Members of White Sands Resort Club, 7. Celebrity Resorts, 8. Celebrity Resotrts of Hawaii Management Company, LLC, manageing agent, and now a recent development thru a name change, number 9. White Sands Development LLC.
For those who may not know the meaning of LLC, it means Limited Liability Corporation and I am sure you know the meaning of that.
The point I am trying to make is that we do not know if all these groups are separate entities. We get billed and mailed things that refer to one or another of the groups mentioned under a completely different letterhead and usually without a signature.
All for now. Blackwhat
 

JeffW

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The last assessment about 4 years ago provided us with some insite (meager as it may be) into the tactics used by this "GANG".
We were hounded by a collection agency and it seems if I remember correctly each month the interest kept accumulating.

Finally we caved in and paid up after negotating a smaller amount
of fees. ..

Who potentially would be the creditor here, White Sands management? If so, I wonder what their status will be after the resort closes? At some point would they close shop? Or would Celebrity be the creditor, who would still remain in business?

If it goes to a collection service, can you distinguish between those are return a portion to the company (which may not still be around) and those that buy up debts for some amount, and any recovering is income for them?

Semi-related, does anyone think there's an advantage to sending an official notification to White Sands that you disapprove of the S/A, and won't be paying, vs just not paying it at all? I'm not sure if some definitive contact is better that what could appear to be just ignoring it.

Jeff
 

Blackwhat

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response three questions

I believe the Association will be the creditor in event of collection process.
The last time (previous assessment) we were turned over to a collection agency and a fee of about 40 percent was added. It is important to dispute the assessment in order to prove to the collection agency that you have a ongoing dispute with the creditor. He is required to honor the dispute and get some answers to prove the creditor is correct.
We need to get everyone to dispute this assessment of $695.
I recommend fileing a complaint with the RICO also.
Blackwhat
 

Blackwhat

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Proxy statement 02/03/09

If you would like to see the proxy statement which you may not have received a copy of, do a "search" for "members proxy white sands".
You will notice at bottom a date with the year being the first two characters and the month and day following.
I don't know the purpose of the proxy request.
It does imply that condominium owners are involved in our association. Why is this not detailed in the budget?
As yet I have had no response on my request for a more detailed explanation of the budget and of the special assessment and it is now two weeks since their receipt of my request per certified mail.
Please e-mail me your thoughts. This could be in preperation for a sale of units as condos after the place goes belly-up by the new LLC called white sands development. Who knows what evil lirks in the hearts of men. The Shadow Knows. (That was for those who remember Lamont Cranston)
Blackwhat
 

Blackwhat

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Queen Emma

If Celebrity can come to a agreement with Emma it puts them in place to sell condos after the rest of us go down the tubes.
Blackwhat
 

lsk

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white sands waikiki

I mailed my letter today, stating my reasons for NOT paying the assessment. If they turn me over to collections, so be it. I am NOT paying it. I did not send it registered mail. If no one pays it they will have a very hard time taking everyone to collections! Good luck everyone! I will also write to the above addresses with my complaints and a copy of my letter refusing to pay the assessment. I will also write to the 3 credit reporting agencies if I get another bill.
 
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qaRuss

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Just on property

We arrived at the resort on February 22 to finish up our RTU having been two weeks on The Big Island and were greated rudely by the on site manager demanding payment before we checked in. I did not pay, we checked in a couple hours later. Most on property had not paid and were planing to dispute. Letter is clear, if owners don't pay, will be turned over to collections and the resort may close. It should!
On site staff are just wonderfull and should be snapped up by any other Waikik property as they are handling this extreemly well.
I have written Celebrity to ask for copy of Board minutes approving special accessment, audited statement confirming financial results 2008 and auditors projections 2009. So far no reply.
My agreement clearly expires in 12/09. I used 2009 weeks prior to March 15. My current year mf's were paid in advance.
I am not planning to pay, at least not without something more then a demand letter from Celebrity.
 

DK09

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white sands manager

so was it Judy who was the onsite manager at the time you checked in?
 

DK09

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Another point I would like to address is the relationship of the entities involved. We have 1.White Sands Waikiki Resort Club, 2. Association of Members of White Sands Waikiki Resort Club, 3.White Sands Management LLC, 4.Assoc Members White Sands Waikiki, 5. White Sands Waikiki Resort Club Association, Inc.,
6. Celebrity Resorts Waikiki Association of Members of White Sands Resort Club, 7. Celebrity Resorts, 8. Celebrity Resotrts of Hawaii Management Company, LLC, manageing agent, and now a recent development thru a name change, number 9. White Sands Development LLC.
For those who may not know the meaning of LLC, it means Limited Liability Corporation and I am sure you know the meaning of that.
The point I am trying to make is that we do not know if all these groups are separate entities. We get billed and mailed things that refer to one or another of the groups mentioned under a completely different letterhead and usually without a signature.
All for now. Blackwhat

On January 4, 2005 name change from celebrity resorts of hawaii, llc to celebrity resorts of waikiki, llc
On July 7, 2008 "Celebrity Resorts of Hawaii Management Company, LLC" was changed to "White Sands Management, LLC". signed by a Jared M. Meyers, President and CEO.
If you would like a copy let me know and I will forward you a copy of the form.
still terribly confusing..??
 
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JeffW

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I drafted this letter for my father to send (figuring it was better to provide official notification of non-payment then look like a deadbeat):

I am providing notice that I am disputing payment of the special assessment fee in your February 5 2009 letter. In the letter it states, “Without these funds the Association will have no choice but to close the resort prematurely.”

I am satisfied with this course of action, and find it preferable to requests for any additional money to prolong operation of a closing resort


Any comments?

Thanks.

Jeff
 

DK09

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letter

I drafted this letter for my father to send (figuring it was better to provide official notification of non-payment then look like a deadbeat):

I am providing notice that I am disputing payment of the special assessment fee in your February 5 2009 letter. In the letter it states, “Without these funds the Association will have no choice but to close the resort prematurely.”

I am satisfied with this course of action, and find it preferable to requests for any additional money to prolong operation of a closing resort


Any comments?

Thanks.

Jeff

sounds good...that is pretty much what everyone has talked to has done.
 

rachel1998

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I am still wondering if RCI will let me use my 2009 week that I have deposited with them? I am not going to pay the assessment. Will White Sands contact RCI and tell them not to let me use my week? I don't know if I should try and get an exchange for the week.
 

JeffW

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I was wondering that myself. If I had to guess, I'd say at initial deposit time (with RCI) is the only time the resort verifies the status of the week. If WS allows the week to be deposited, I wouldn't think they can go back to RCI later on and either revoke the deposit, and/or cancel an exchange made with it.

I'm not sure what's "normal" for special assessments, but based on the above logic, it would seem best to make it as part of the regular annual fee payment. When it isn't, you get into situations like are probably happening with WS, where owners who paid they annual fee and deposited their weeks were able to make use of them (and have no reason to pay the SA), but the rest of us effectively to pay ransom to get usage back.

Jeff
 
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