[2008] Southcape Resort

[ecwinch]

Not a SC owner or a lawyer, so take this for what it is worth. After reading this thread and reading the Mass. TimeShare Law, if I was an owner, I would try to determine the legal roles of the various parties involved. Mass law has some very specific limitations on what the developer can do, so if NEVS was classified as the developer, then I would think you would have solid basis for at least a complaint with the Mass AG.

“Developer”, any person who (i) offers to dispose of or disposes of his interest in a time-share not previously disposed of, or (ii) succeeds under section twenty-two to any special developer right."

clearly (i) does not apply, as it appears that most of weeks NEVS controls are foreclosures. But it would be important to know who, if anyone, retains the special developer right. There is no doubt that NEVS is behaving like the developer, assigning Outfield as the Project Broker, establishing a sales office, et al.

If NEVS retained the Special Developer Rights, they needed to record that fact. I would start there. Again - not a lawyer, but from the provision above it would appear that retention of that right would classify them as the Developer, providing owners with more protections.

 

[massman631]

I've read all of the posts and seen a lot of speculation, rumor and innuendo and I'm trying to understand what's going on. Does the resort not need to fix the roofs, replace and siding and upgrade the septic systems? Seems reasonable to me but maybe I don't really understand.

Why the assumption that these new guys are bad guys? Sounds like they're trying to fix things that should have been fixed a long time ago. I want my resort to be in good shape and my maintenance fee hasn't gone up at all in the past few years. Wish I could say the same for my expenses at home.

I don't know, I'm just not ready to make the assumption that Hagberg, et al are all bad guys. Maybe we should hear what they have to say?

 

[tombo]

I've read all of the posts and seen a lot of speculation, rumor and innuendo and I'm trying to understand what's going on. Does the resort not need to fix the roofs, replace and siding and upgrade the septic systems? Seems reasonable to me but maybe I don't really understand.

Why the assumption that these new guys are bad guys? Sounds like they're trying to fix things that should have been fixed a long time ago. I want my resort to be in good shape and my maintenance fee hasn't gone up at all in the past few years. Wish I could say the same for my expenses at home.

I don't know, I'm just not ready to make the assumption that Hagberg, et al are all bad guys. Maybe we should hear what they have to say?

Maybe you are a guest who lucked up on this web site and really trusts Festiva. On the other hand since you have a total of one posts after reading a total of 177 posts, perhaps you are an Outfield Mktg or Festiva shill posting warm fuzzies about why we should all trust them.

Your MF's probably did remain the same for years because you had a mgt company that was watching out for every dollar like they were paid to do. New mgt comes with Festiva and your MF's sure did increase since Festive took control. They raise the MF's at every resort the take over, and they did it again at Southscape. They asess at every resort they take over, and they have already assessed at Southscape. Why the assumption that Festiva is bad for the resort and owners? Please read the previous posts here and on Equivest sites and on Atrium sites to look for positive comments about how they have treated owners at resorts they took over. You will find few positive comments (if any), but you will find plenty of mad owners. Search Festiva under google and see how many sites there are complaining about this organization. Name another resort developer that has been sued 2 times by 2 different groups in the last 4 years other than Festiva. Nothing predicts one's future actions better than one's past actions.

What needs to be fixed is that the owners need to get rid of Festia. The septic tanks might need to be replaced, but the septic tanks aren't stinking up the place nearly as bad as Festiva will IMO.

Hagberg's name has not been mentioned very often in these posts? After reading few if any positive remarks I am surprised that an owner would take up for any of Festiva's CEO's. Hagberg and the other CEO's apparently think that Festiva resorts exist to provide Festiva with sales and Mgt income. The resorts should actually exist for the pleasure and enjoyment of the owners. After all it is the owners who pay the mgt company to provide great service and amenities at the cheapest price they can. If the mgt company can only operate by raising MF's and assessing, then the owners should take bids and hire a new more efficient mgt company. Festiva's mgt company has not been able to operate a single resort they acquired on a budget close to what was in place when they took over (from what I have seen). It always costs more money once Festiva starts to manage. That is not a positive thing that a mgt company would list on their resume.

I feel that this post was made by an officer or employee of Festiva, but I could be wrong. It will be hard to fool us by sliding in positive spin by a supposed owner. If you are an owner and first time poster (which I doubt) then I apologize. If you are a Festiva representative, that was a good first ghost post, but few of us will fall for it. It just didn't sound like anything a first time poster would say.

 

[ecwinch]

Tombo - put the pitchfork down and step away.

I agree that massman631 has all the earmarks of being a shill. At least ask some questions, give them at least two-three posts to show their true colors.

Massman631 - I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. So here is your opportunity to prove that Tombo jumped to a wrong conclusion based on a few tell-tale signs. Tell us a little bit about yourself - how you found the TUG, any resorts you own at, and maybe a first name.

Spend some time reading some of the older posts, and you will see that many members have had bad experiences with timeshare developers and their sales force. It is not an issue of are they taking the right steps, it is more about are they respecting owner rights in the operation and management of the resort.

That their are no inherent conflict of interests between the BOD, management entity, and developer. When anyone other the owners makes statements like "we own" or says they are the "resort owner", it tends to be a challenge for the true owners.

 

[Sou13]

Thank you, Eric and Tom!

Thank you for your posts which should help us organize concerned owners.

In my search for Southcape owners I found this link: http://www.mashpeechamber.com/home.php?5,,232606,mas232606,,,Index,home.html

 

[Sou13]

Illegal Special Assessment

I've been thinking that $300 of the $400 Special Assessment was imposed illegally by an illegally appointed Board of Trustees. The part of the assessment that is for necessary repairs comes to about $100 and the rest is for capital improvements which cannot exceed $10,000 without the consent of the owners.

Anyone who wants to send a letter to the Board can email me for help. Send me your thoughts and I'll reply ASAP.

 

[Sou13]

About Cliff Hagberg

Here's an interesting article about Cliff Hagberg. Note that according to the article, Southcape Resort is "sold out"!

Resort Management Software

Published March 1, 2009

by Matt Brosious
Director of SalessU
Systems Products International


For resort managers, the current economic situation calls for new ideas for cost-cutting and time savings. Therefore, spending a little time exploring the latest in software technology might be to your advantage. Timeshare resorts are being held to an ever-higher standard for providing excellent service to, and communications with owners, or members, and guests. In addition to demanding 100 percent accuracy in data – particularly financial information – managers are realizing they can use the efficiencies inherent in the right software to substantially reduce staff hours.

Recently, Cliff Hagberg, chief executive officer of New England Vacation Management (NEVM), Cape Cod, Massachusetts, acquired new software technology to help manage a portfolio of several sold-out resorts. Wanting to communicate better with his owners and to have a more robust command of the data it takes to manage, and manage well, he turned to SPI for answers.

Centralized reservations
Once upon a time, guests and owners would call on the phone and have their needs handled by a single individual at the resort. Like every resort management company, New England Vacation Management found their owners and prospective renters overwhelmingly preferred to review options and book vacations online. They also recognized that with the right software, this trend would be a big saver of staff time. They would no longer need to have a full-time, dedicated reservationist on-staff for any of their larger projects. And on smaller properties, their front desk personnel can give their full attention to the guest in front of them, rather than constantly excusing themselves to answer a ringing phone.

Specialized software developed specifically to handle the various intricacies of the timeshare business, such as tracking HOA, versus owner-week rentals, and keeping tabs on exchange weeks from multiple sources is key. Hagberg found that SPI’s system fit his operation like a glove. Information previously stored in several spreadsheets or files was immediately available on SPI including a complete record of each of New England Vacation Management’s owner information, with detailed contact and financial information. Another one of Hagberg’s demands was that the new software be easy to use, even by entry-level personnel and part-time summer help. SPI filled the bill, with an easy-to-use, yet very complete software package. The learning curve for new hires to master SPI’s single-screen front desk modules is minutes instead of days.

Owners and guests, today, expect front desk clerks or receptionists to have ample and readily accessible information at hand to answer their questions. Your staff needs to have complete data available with the click of a mouse – everything from Grandma needing ADA-approved accessibility to whether or not an owner has an unpaid, outstanding balance, such as a portion or all of their annual maintenance fee.

Resort financial management
One of the most vital functions of a software system is to manage resort finances. Using the right technology to handle entire back-office needs, from annual assessment fee billing, statements, collections, payment processing and reporting; to handling accounts-payable and -receivable or managing a portfolio of mortgage receivables can save substantially, due to less labor cost and reduction in errors.

NEVM’s resorts are sold-out properties, managed under the auspices of homeowner associations (HOAs). HOA boards are closely regulated by state and federal law and are required to be able to demonstrate that they have honored their fiduciary responsibility while overseeing the resort. New England Vacation Management takes this obligation very seriously, both from the desire to remain in compliance with the law, as well as ethically.

Hagberg recognized that a software system handling the HOA’s budget, as well as day-to-day operations, must be unquestionably accurate. With limited staff and resources, Hagberg found SPI to be a user-friendly system that could effortlessly handle the front desk, as well as the back-of-house, operations, including handling the annual maintenance fee billing operations. Another aspect of SPI’s financial management system he appreciated was the capability to handle monthly mortgages for the HOA’s resold inventory.

Correspondence & Owner Services
NEVMs responsibilities as a resort manager include communicating with several thousand owners. Software that could keep track of each individual, timeshare owner and their ownership rights was essential. The system would need to be able to communicate with them by email, as well as by more conventional snail-mail, to send reservation confirmations, annual maintenance fee bills and reminder notices and other types of communications, such as newsletters or notices of resale weeks.

Because SPI had introduced a new, enterprise software suite based on a Microsoft .NET/SQL Server platform several years earlier (recently branded as SPI Orange Systems), Hagberg found these needs to be amply met. As a management company, NEVM needed SPI’s timeshare reservations, maintenance dues billing, owner communications and other property management functionality. SPI was able to supply New England Vacation Management with just the applications they needed, at an affordable price with a quick implementation.

SPI has been in the timeshare business for thirty years and enjoys a well-earned reputation for excellence. This gave Hagberg a comfort level that his vendor would ‘be there for the long-haul.’ In addition, NEVM did not have time, or the personnel, to do a lot of advance preparation for a conversion. Therefore, it was very good news for him that the implementation stage was smooth, quick and inexpensive.

 

[ecwinch]

Why is the fact it is a "sold-out" resort interesting? I think that just means that the only weeks are resale weeks (i.e. they have been previously disposed of). Just like a concert can be sold-out, but have tickets available via third-parties.

Also, why do you say the board is illegally appointed? Every BOD member should have either been voted in during the election process, or appointed to the BOD to fill a vacancy.

 

[Fig]

Use of Southcape's membership list by Outfield legal?

As pointed out here, it's looking more and more like Outfield Marketing had unlimited access to Southcape's membership base for the purpose of marketing Festiva's points program. Outfield, as has been pointed out, stands to profit substantially from these contacts. The idea of using a non-profits membership list without the consent of members for for-profit purposes is one issue, but there are also privacy issues of the members to consider. According to some people who have posted here, Outfield's calls have been unrelenting with some people have been contacted five times, even though they did not want to set up in-house meetings. Here is some info I came across when researching the use of non-profit mailing lists. It is from a webpage from a privicy rights organization:
...................................
Background on Fair Information Practices

In 1973 the U.S. Dept of Health, Education and Welfare studied the impact of automation on medical records privacy. The people involved in the study were concerned that a knee-jerk reaction to the fears of computerization would close off the beneficial aspects of their use.

So they developed what they called the code of fair information practices. They wanted to create an environment where reasonable uses of data would be allowed.

Here, in a nutshell is that code. It has been expanded upon and adapted for different uses since the early 1970s, but all variations have the same basic tenets: notice, access, disclosure of secondary uses, error correction, and security of data.

1. No secrets. There must be no personal recordkeeping systems whose very existence is secret.

2. There must be a way for an individual to find out what information about him is in a record and how it is used.

3. There must be a way for an individual to prevent information about him that was obtained for one purpose from being used or made available for other purposes without his/her consent.

Hmmm...number 3. Did members of Southcape, a non-profit, know that by virtue of being a Southcape member they would be repeatedly solicted by Outfield, a for profit company, that stood to gain thousands on each meeting with each member?

 

[Russ45]

Why is the fact it is a "sold-out" resort interesting? I think that just means that the only weeks are resale weeks (i.e. they have been previously disposed of). Just like a concert can be sold-out, but have tickets available via third-parties.

Also, why do you say the board is illegally appointed? Every BOD member should have either been voted in during the election process, or appointed to the BOD to fill a vacancy.

Depends on how they came on the Board. If a vacancy arises then the existing Board members appoint a Board member who fills out the rest of the unexpired term. If all positions on the Board are vacant then the unit owners elect a Board with a special Association meeting. These are all new Board members who were not elected from the last year, if I am not mistaken, but it depends on how they assumed their position. If an elected Board member appointed them Board members, then resigned with the sale of the resort, then they are legally appointed. If the elected board members resigned with the sale of the resort without appointing the current Members, and they just assumed the position, then they are not legally appointed.

 

[Sou13]

Reply to ecwinch

Depends on how they came on the Board. If a vacancy arises then the existing Board members appoint a Board member who fills out the rest of the unexpired term. If all positions on the Board are vacant then the unit owners elect a Board with a special Association meeting. These are all new Board members who were not elected from the last year, if I am not mistaken, but it depends on how they assumed their position. If an elected Board member appointed them Board members, then resigned with the sale of the resort, then they are legally appointed. If the elected board members resigned with the sale of the resort without appointing the current Members, and they just assumed the position, then they are not legally appointed.

The part about an elected board appointing them, then resigning, might make it look legal, but there was never an election! Look at the minutes from the 2008 meeting. Not only was there no election, the agenda was not followed and there was no notification that there was to be an election!

Originally Posted by ecwinch
Why is the fact it is a "sold-out" resort interesting? I think that just means that the only weeks are resale weeks (i.e. they have been previously disposed of). Just like a concert can be sold-out, but have tickets available via third-parties.

Also, why do you say the board is illegally appointed? Every BOD member should have either been voted in during the election process, or appointed to the BOD to fill a vacancy.

Southcape Resort has never been "sold out" and the number of deeded owners being billed for maintenance fees is either 1600+ or 1800+ out of 51x55 total intervals. Those weeks offered on the IVS site are resale, not developer owned. If all the weeks were "sold out", the need for a "Special Assessment" would not exist.

 

[Fig]

Possible scenerio at Southcape?

Here’s a “possible” scenario may be happening at Southcape after doing a little poking around. Feel free to comment, clarify, etc as these discussions seem to be leading to a greater understanding for all involved.

It’s going to be hard to sell new time shares in this economy. The free TV for a tour days are on serious hold. As pointed out here, the restaurants on the Cape aren’t even getting paid for their free lunches promised by tour operator. How do you make money in the timeshare business? What if you could get people who own their timeshares to pay you to keep their time share experience going? How to do this? Let’s invent a club and give them points rather than a fixed deeded week! If we could get people to a few clubs to agree we can open a big club where people could go to more than one resort. But we need to get rid of those pesky deeds, those legal agreements that entitle them to vacation at a specific time and the real estate industry takes so seriously. Hmmm, can we buy them? Nah, too expensive. What about charging them to have us take them from them and put them in a “trust?” and then we could claim that they could vacation at any property in our club. Of course, they would not be guaranteed any week at any particular property anymore on points, but we like that because we now are not limited to weeks by members but can kinda float the whole thing on a first come, first serve basis and possibly even sell more points than available weeks kind of on the overbooking airline theme figuring that some people will be no shows.

Great idea! Now what about those pesky deeds? We need a salesforce to convince these deed holders to sign these deeds over. Let’s hire a marketing firm. Hey, Tom Franks is the CEO of a firm and he knows the industry inside out having been past president of American Resort Development Association
which practically built the timeshare industry from scratch. Love the name of his company, Outfield marketing,---wasn’t there an outfielder who played for Pittsburg in the 50s named Frank Thomas? Cute. He had some great ideas about tours, but tours aren’t where its at these days, so maybe he can use his salesforce to convince the deed holders to go with our club. Hmm…have to be real careful what we tell these folks, we already had one run in with the AG in MO and that was not fun. So, we’ll keep the meetings in folks homes…we’ll tell them they are private. Expensive visiting all these people’s homes, but hey, if Outfield Marketing can rake in $3,100 on a “conversion” there is a lot of incentive in it for them to convince people to give up their deed.

Okay, once we get these deeds what to do with them? We got to transfer the title. Uggh, We Collect Timeshares, that postcard company is in deep doo-doo because they offered to take peoples deeds off of their hands for a similar fee and nobody actually transferred the deeds. Hey, Cliff Hagberg has a big real estate company that does time share resales, let’s ask him. He also headed up the ARDA Resale Task Force, so he is probably buddies with Tom.

We need a trust to put these deeds in once they are transferred. Let’s have Cliff and Tom and maybe Steve that sales guy from Outfield form some sort of a limited partnership or trust or something. They can send out communications from the “Trustees” and people might think they are board members…will give them more clout. Well how you going to pay Cliff? Outfield gets its cut…I mean this is a non-profit, you can’t bilk the owners. What if Cliff sells some of the timeshares that he has had the deeds signed over for as floats? They aren’t deeded weeks anymore. Can he do that? I mean if he sells a float week for $2000 grand after someone signs a deed over to the trust aren’t we milking a deed for $3000 from the owner and $2000 from the new owner on a non-profit where the current owner is paying a few hundred a year? Maybe yes, maybe no. All I know is Cliff has a lot of floats for Southcape on his website now and he is a trustee. On the for sale by owner, almost all the owners were deeded…so, do these floats exist or are they being created by the conversion and then resold? Okay, so this is just a wild take, any thoughts?

 

[ecwinch]

The part about an elected board appointing them, then resigning, might make it look legal, but there was never an election!

Southcape Resort has never been "sold out" and the number of deeded owners being billed for maintenance fees is either 1600+ or 1800+ out of 51x55 total intervals. Those weeks offered on the IVS site are resale, not developer owned. If all the weeks were "sold out", the need for a "Special Assessment" would not exist.

If Southcape Resort was never "sold out", and NEVS has acquired the rights of the developer, then the developer rights under Article V, Section 1 of the by-laws are still in effect, and the Developer controls the resort. And they would retain those rights until all 163 units authorized in the by-laws are constructed OR they relinquish those rights.

And if that is true, according to Article V, Section 2.a, the Developer has the right to control 67% of the voting power of the Board of Directors. And they retain at least 51% of the voting power until they lose their developer rights.

And according to Article VI, Section 6, vacancies are filled by the majority vote of the Directors. So no election by the owners is required, even if the developer was not in control.

 

[tombo]

I would be surprised if you were wrong on a single one of your theories.

Here’s a “possible” scenario may be happening at Southcape after doing a little poking around. Feel free to comment, clarify, etc as these discussions seem to be leading to a greater understanding for all involved.

It’s going to be hard to sell new time shares in this economy. The free TV for a tour days are on serious hold. As pointed out here, the restaurants on the Cape aren’t even getting paid for their free lunches promised by tour operator. How do you make money in the timeshare business? What if you could get people who own their timeshares to pay you to keep their time share experience going? How to do this? Let’s invent a club and give them points rather than a fixed deeded week! If we could get people to a few clubs to agree we can open a big club where people could go to more than one resort. But we need to get rid of those pesky deeds, those legal agreements that entitle them to vacation at a specific time and the real estate industry takes so seriously. Hmmm, can we buy them? Nah, too expensive. What about charging them to have us take them from them and put them in a “trust?” and then we could claim that they could vacation at any property in our club. Of course, they would not be guaranteed any week at any particular property anymore on points, but we like that because we now are not limited to weeks by members but can kinda float the whole thing on a first come, first serve basis and possibly even sell more points than available weeks kind of on the overbooking airline theme figuring that some people will be no shows.

Great idea! Now what about those pesky deeds? We need a salesforce to convince these deed holders to sign these deeds over. Let’s hire a marketing firm. Hey, Tom Franks is the CEO of a firm and he knows the industry inside out having been past president of American Resort Development Association
which practically built the timeshare industry from scratch. Love the name of his company, Outfield marketing,---wasn’t there an outfielder who played for Pittsburg in the 50s named Frank Thomas? Cute. He had some great ideas about tours, but tours aren’t where its at these days, so maybe he can use his salesforce to convince the deed holders to go with our club. Hmm…have to be real careful what we tell these folks, we already had one run in with the AG in MO and that was not fun. So, we’ll keep the meetings in folks homes…we’ll tell them they are private. Expensive visiting all these people’s homes, but hey, if Outfield Marketing can rake in $3,100 on a “conversion” there is a lot of incentive in it for them to convince people to give up their deed.

Okay, once we get these deeds what to do with them? We got to transfer the title. Uggh, We Collect Timeshares, that postcard company is in deep doo-doo because they offered to take peoples deeds off of their hands for a similar fee and nobody actually transferred the deeds. Hey, Cliff Hagberg has a big real estate company that does time share resales, let’s ask him. He also headed up the ARDA Resale Task Force, so he is probably buddies with Tom.

We need a trust to put these deeds in once they are transferred. Let’s have Cliff and Tom and maybe Steve that sales guy from Outfield form some sort of a limited partnership or trust or something. They can send out communications from the “Trustees” and people might think they are board members…will give them more clout. Well how you going to pay Cliff? Outfield gets its cut…I mean this is a non-profit, you can’t bilk the owners. What if Cliff sells some of the timeshares that he has had the deeds signed over for as floats? They aren’t deeded weeks anymore. Can he do that? I mean if he sells a float week for $2000 grand after someone signs a deed over to the trust aren’t we milking a deed for $3000 from the owner and $2000 from the new owner on a non-profit where the current owner is paying a few hundred a year? Maybe yes, maybe no. All I know is Cliff has a lot of floats for Southcape on his website now and he is a trustee. On the for sale by owner, almost all the owners were deeded…so, do these floats exist or are they being created by the conversion and then resold? Okay, so this is just a wild take, any thoughts?

 

[Carolinian]

But the blue smoke and mirrors of points clubs are nothing but a big scam. Owners lose control of their resort. It is fitting that the multi-developer timeshare points concept was originated by a former loan shark in South Africa, where points clubs have been a never-ending scam for depriving timeshare owners of their property. The whole sordid SA story was posted on the South Africa board at Crimeshare.

More likely, a bunch of these people sat around and said these timeshare owners have bought the spiel of a timeshare salesman once, how can we con them again to buy what they already own?

Points operations are nothing but parasitic con games.

Here’s a “possible” scenario may be happening at Southcape after doing a little poking around. Feel free to comment, clarify, etc as these discussions seem to be leading to a greater understanding for all involved.

It’s going to be hard to sell new time shares in this economy. The free TV for a tour days are on serious hold. As pointed out here, the restaurants on the Cape aren’t even getting paid for their free lunches promised by tour operator. How do you make money in the timeshare business? What if you could get people who own their timeshares to pay you to keep their time share experience going? How to do this? Let’s invent a club and give them points rather than a fixed deeded week! If we could get people to a few clubs to agree we can open a big club where people could go to more than one resort. But we need to get rid of those pesky deeds, those legal agreements that entitle them to vacation at a specific time and the real estate industry takes so seriously. Hmmm, can we buy them? Nah, too expensive. What about charging them to have us take them from them and put them in a “trust?” and then we could claim that they could vacation at any property in our club. Of course, they would not be guaranteed any week at any particular property anymore on points, but we like that because we now are not limited to weeks by members but can kinda float the whole thing on a first come, first serve basis and possibly even sell more points than available weeks kind of on the overbooking airline theme figuring that some people will be no shows.

Great idea! Now what about those pesky deeds? We need a salesforce to convince these deed holders to sign these deeds over. Let’s hire a marketing firm. Hey, Tom Franks is the CEO of a firm and he knows the industry inside out having been past president of American Resort Development Association
which practically built the timeshare industry from scratch. Love the name of his company, Outfield marketing,---wasn’t there an outfielder who played for Pittsburg in the 50s named Frank Thomas? Cute. He had some great ideas about tours, but tours aren’t where its at these days, so maybe he can use his salesforce to convince the deed holders to go with our club. Hmm…have to be real careful what we tell these folks, we already had one run in with the AG in MO and that was not fun. So, we’ll keep the meetings in folks homes…we’ll tell them they are private. Expensive visiting all these people’s homes, but hey, if Outfield Marketing can rake in $3,100 on a “conversion” there is a lot of incentive in it for them to convince people to give up their deed.

Okay, once we get these deeds what to do with them? We got to transfer the title. Uggh, We Collect Timeshares, that postcard company is in deep doo-doo because they offered to take peoples deeds off of their hands for a similar fee and nobody actually transferred the deeds. Hey, Cliff Hagberg has a big real estate company that does time share resales, let’s ask him. He also headed up the ARDA Resale Task Force, so he is probably buddies with Tom.

We need a trust to put these deeds in once they are transferred. Let’s have Cliff and Tom and maybe Steve that sales guy from Outfield form some sort of a limited partnership or trust or something. They can send out communications from the “Trustees” and people might think they are board members…will give them more clout. Well how you going to pay Cliff? Outfield gets its cut…I mean this is a non-profit, you can’t bilk the owners. What if Cliff sells some of the timeshares that he has had the deeds signed over for as floats? They aren’t deeded weeks anymore. Can he do that? I mean if he sells a float week for $2000 grand after someone signs a deed over to the trust aren’t we milking a deed for $3000 from the owner and $2000 from the new owner on a non-profit where the current owner is paying a few hundred a year? Maybe yes, maybe no. All I know is Cliff has a lot of floats for Southcape on his website now and he is a trustee. On the for sale by owner, almost all the owners were deeded…so, do these floats exist or are they being created by the conversion and then resold? Okay, so this is just a wild take, any thoughts?

 

[NEVMSLLC]

My name is Cliff Hagberg and I am a trustee at Southcape Resort. I
am concerned about a number of untruths and misrepresentations that
have appeared on this board and i am perfectly willing to address
issues of concern for any owner at Southcape Resort. Please
understand that I cannot discuss legal issues nor will I respond to
any personal attacks. Having set those ground rules, I would
very much appreciate an opportunity to try and answer those questions
that any owner at Southcape might have. I look forward to a fruitful
dialog

 

[tombo]

My name is Cliff Hagberg and I am a trustee at Southcape Resort. I
am concerned about a number of untruths and misrepresentations that
have appeared on this board and i am perfectly willing to address
issues of concern for any owner at Southcape Resort. Please
understand that I cannot discuss legal issues nor will I respond to
any personal attacks. Having set those ground rules, I would
very much appreciate an opportunity to try and answer those questions
that any owner at Southcape might have. I look forward to a fruitful
dialog

Welcome. You will be answering questions for a while from many here. My first question is why I am having my personal information (phone number, information on week(s) I own at a Festiva resort) given to salesmen to call my home and try to sell me Festiva points when I have not authorized the resort to give out any of my personal information and I am on the do not call list? The only reason the resort has any of my personal information is because I own there, not to distribute to your sales force (internal or 3rd party) as a sales lead.

 

[ClamsCasino]

Massman - are you kidding me? The Assessments at Southcape have climbed from $425 in 2002 up to $595 in 2008 - that's a pretty large increase. Do we even know where the most recent $50 assessment that was imposed on every owner in January 2009 went? We pay that assessment then get slammed with another $400 a few weeks later!

I've read all of the posts and seen a lot of speculation, rumor and innuendo and I'm trying to understand what's going on. Does the resort not need to fix the roofs, replace and siding and upgrade the septic systems? Seems reasonable to me but maybe I don't really understand.

Why the assumption that these new guys are bad guys? Sounds like they're trying to fix things that should have been fixed a long time ago. I want my resort to be in good shape and my maintenance fee hasn't gone up at all in the past few years. Wish I could say the same for my expenses at home.

I don't know, I'm just not ready to make the assumption that Hagberg, et al are all bad guys. Maybe we should hear what they have to say?

 

[Sou13]

NEVS has no developer rights

If Southcape Resort was never "sold out", and NEVS has acquired the rights of the developer, then the developer rights under Article V, Section 1 of the by-laws are still in effect, and the Developer controls the resort. And they would retain those rights until all 163 units authorized in the by-laws are constructed OR they relinquish those rights.

And if that is true, according to Article V, Section 2.a, the Developer has the right to control 67% of the voting power of the Board of Directors. And they retain at least 51% of the voting power until they lose their developer rights.

And according to Article VI, Section 6, vacancies are filled by the majority vote of the Directors. So no election by the owners is required, even if the developer was not in control.

NEVS bought the rights to manage but not to develop Southcape Resort. The developer rights ceased when the Town of Mashpee seized the remaining lots which were supposed to be developed as "Southcape III" and the development never went beyond 55 units. Southcape I may have been "sold out" but Southcape II never was and the previous "owners" or whatever they were supposed to be were even offering weeks on eBay.

Presently 100% of the voting rights on the Board of Trustees are in the control of NEVS and Outfield Marketing. The 1600+ deeded owners have the right to at least one seat on the board and to expand the Board of Directors to as many as nine.

We Southcape owners have been blissfully unaware of our rights and responsibilities as owners. I take full responsibility for my own failure to get to at least one annual meeting in the nearly quarter century that I've been making my "escape to the Cape" for mini-vacations.

 

[ecwinch]

My name is Cliff Hagberg and I am a trustee at Southcape Resort. I
am concerned about a number of untruths and misrepresentations that
have appeared on this board and i am perfectly willing to address
issues of concern for any owner at Southcape Resort. Please
understand that I cannot discuss legal issues nor will I respond to
any personal attacks. Having set those ground rules, I would
very much appreciate an opportunity to try and answer those questions
that any owner at Southcape might have. I look forward to a fruitful
dialog

Cliff - thanks for showing up, and showing a willingness to address the issues raised.

Can you describe how the current Board members came to hold the seats they currently hold?

Does New England Vacation Services LLC (NEVS), or any other party retain the "Special Developer Right" as described in Mass TimeShare Act (Chapter 183b, Section 22)?

 

[NEVMSLLC]

Hi Eric and all

First of all, thank you for the welcome. I was initially a little concerned about torches and pitchforks! While I will try to answer all questions, I do want to keep things somewhat confined to communicating with only Southcape owners and I notice that neither you nor tombo list yourselves as actually being owners. I would appreciate it if you would confirm this for me and I will take you at your word.

Tombo, Outfield is an authorized agent of Southcape Resort and there is a Confidentiality Agreement to protect private information. Outfield is to assist in informing owners about the changes at Southcape and to offer the opportunity to become a member of Festiva's Adventure Club.

Eric, I can't discuss the process by which the current trustees assumed their duties as it calls for legal opinions but I can tell you that the process was conducted under the supervision of several different law firms.

Again, your second question also calls for a legal opinion but there is recorded an assignment of developer rights to NEVS that is a matter of public record.

Please understand that I'm not trying to avoid direct answers but I'm not an attorney and I'm not qualified to offer legal opinions. Please also understand that I don't have the opportunity to monitor this site every day so it may take me a day or two before I can respond.

Thanks

Cliff

 

[Sou13]

A deterrent?

Hi Eric and all

First of all, thank you for the welcome. I was initially a little concerned about torches and pitchforks! While I will try to answer all questions, I do want to keep things somewhat confined to communicating with only Southcape owners and I notice that neither you nor tombo list yourselves as actually being owners. I would appreciate it if you would confirm this for me and I will take you at your word.

Tombo, Outfield is an authorized agent of Southcape Resort and there is a Confidentiality Agreement to protect private information. Outfield is to assist in informing owners about the changes at Southcape and to offer the opportunity to become a member of Festiva's Adventure Club.

Eric, I can't discuss the process by which the current trustees assumed their duties as it calls for legal opinions but I can tell you that the process was conducted under the supervision of several different law firms.

Again, your second question also calls for a legal opinion but there is recorded an assignment of developer rights to NEVS that is a matter of public record.

Please understand that I'm not trying to avoid direct answers but I'm not an attorney and I'm not qualified to offer legal opinions. Please also understand that I don't have the opportunity to monitor this site every day so it may take me a day or two before I can respond.

Thanks

Cliff

I hope your presence isn't a deterrent to open discussion here, since the object is to get Southcape owners to identify themselves and come to the annual meeting.

We want the truth, and if any "untruths" have been posted it's been the result of misunderstanding. We're not attorneys and don't understand a lot of legal language, and a lot of what's spelled out in the Master Deed.

Where can we find the public record of the assignment of developer rights? And what are those rights? Is it "untrue" that the Town of Mashpee has taken over a parcel of land valued at $2.5 million and that no further development is possible?

 

[NEVMSLLC]

I have no problem not being a part of this discussion. But I have read all of your posts and think the owners are entitled to the truth and not speculation. If you don't agree, I'll happily withdraw.

The assignment is at the Barnstable County Registry of Deeds. I'm not qualified to speak as to what those rights are. The town of Mashpee has taken more than that as a result of unpaid taxes, all of which occurred prior to my involvement with the resort. I'm still negotiating with the town to permit owners and guests access to the parking area across from the tennis courts.

I can't speak to further development possibilities.

 

[w.bob]

Hi Eric and all

First of all, thank you for the welcome. I was initially a little concerned about torches and pitchforks! While I will try to answer all questions, I do want to keep things somewhat confined to communicating with only Southcape owners and I notice that neither you nor tombo list yourselves as actually being owners. I would appreciate it if you would confirm this for me and I will take you at your word.

Tombo, Outfield is an authorized agent of Southcape Resort and there is a Confidentiality Agreement to protect private information. Outfield is to assist in informing owners about the changes at Southcape and to offer the opportunity to become a member of Festiva's Adventure Club.

Eric, I can't discuss the process by which the current trustees assumed their duties as it calls for legal opinions but I can tell you that the process was conducted under the supervision of several different law firms.

Again, your second question also calls for a legal opinion but there is recorded an assignment of developer rights to NEVS that is a matter of public record.

Please understand that I'm not trying to avoid direct answers but I'm not an attorney and I'm not qualified to offer legal opinions. Please also understand that I don't have the opportunity to monitor this site every day so it may take me a day or two before I can respond.

Thanks

Cliff

Welcome Cliff,

I am an owner at Southcape and I am concerned about 1. the first assessment of $50.00 2. the additional assessment of $400.00.

I realize that the resort may not have been managed properly in the past resulting in numerous maintenance projects needed to keep it up to par. I have no problem with an reasonable assessment to accomplish this.

Can you tell me how many units are privately owned and will be paying the $450.00 assessments as compared to the units not privately owned. I "assume" any units that are not privately owned are actually unsold units & owned by you. Is this true? If you do not own the unsold units who does? How many of these unsold units are there? & Is the owner of these unsold units responsible for the $450.00 assessment on each of the units?

In a perfect world Once improvements are made each unit will increase in value resulting in a higher sale price. I do not mind paying my fair share for improvements, I just think that the interval unit owners should not have to shoulder the all of the cost of improvements. If the owner of the unsold units will benefit from the improvements resulting in a higher value per unsold unit then they should be paying there fair share too.

I tried to ask questions that will not require legal opinion, just math. Looking forward to hearing from you.
Thanks

 

[NEVMSLLC]

One other thing I should point out, Sou13, is that I disagree with your interpretation of the object of this discussion group. I believe that the purpose of this group is to discuss issues facing Southcape Resort and not to get Southcape owners to identify themselves. Besides, I already know a number of owners here, including you. In fact, I'm helping you in your goal. We are in the process of sending a notice of the meeting to all Southcape owners with an invitation to attend. Personally, I hope there's a large turn out as we have much to discuss. There really is nothing to hide.