[2008] Southcape Resort

[Sou13]

INTERCITY ESCROW SERVICES (AS TR) (Gtee)

I checked the INTERCITY ESCROW SERVICES (AS TR) (Gtee) Southcape conversions today and found that, for all Outfield Marketing's efforts, there have been less than 15 all summer, and about 1/2 of them are "float" weeks.

 

[nancyt]

Attorney General Complaints

I have been communicating with Ralph Smith at the Consumer Assistance Council, Inc. (working in cooperation with the Attorney General of Massachusetts), 149 Main Street, Hyannis, MA 02601. He has been very helpful and is interested in helping us, but needs to hear from more of you. I gave the names of a number of people who I know have submitted complaint forms and many of those complaints have not been received by him. I believe that we all have been using different companies or people that we have been complaining about. Please include all of these names: New England Vacation Services, Festiva Adventure Club, South Cape Resort and Time share and Sand Castle Resort and Timeshare on your complaint form or letter and it should get to a mutual collection file. Please consider resubmitting your complaint if you think yours is not there, or check by calling: 508-771-0700 or e-mailing cac@capecod.net. We've got a good start. Keep your complaints coming.

 

[Classylassy523]

Thank you for this information

I have been communicating with Ralph Smith at the Consumer Assistance Council, Inc. (working in cooperation with the Attorney General of Massachusetts), 149 Main Street, Hyannis, MA 02601. He has been very helpful and is interested in helping us, but needs to hear from more of you. I gave the names of a number of people who I know have submitted complaint forms and many of those complaints have not been received by him. I believe that we all have been using different companies or people that we have been complaining about. Please include all of these names: New England Vacation Services, Festiva Adventure Club, South Cape Resort and Time share and Sand Castle Resort and Timeshare on your complaint form or letter and it should get to a mutual collection file. Please consider resubmitting your complaint if you think yours is not there, or check by calling: 508-771-0700 or e-mailing cac@capecod.net. We've got a good start. Keep your complaints coming.

Thanks Nancy.

I am not a Southcape owner, I own at Sandcastle. Hadn't heard of this source of help, but I will be sending copies of everything that I have already sent to the AG and copies of communications with Cliff. I wil also let other Sandcastle owners now about this source.

 

[Sou13]

Updates, anyone?

I took two days off over the weekend and there have been no updates. I do have an important question: Has anyone heard anything about the "owners' advisory group" that we've been promised?

I decided not to nominate myself at the meeting because I thought that Rebecca would be a better choice. But whatever has become of Rebecca? Does anyone have any info on Rebecca?

 

[ChrisH]

Did Festiva tell you about this FEE! - NOT

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/festiva-resorts-c241327.html

Festiva Resorts Complaints - Additional Reservation Charges

Posted: 2009-08-14

We bought with Festiva 3 years ago. I wanted to believe this company was "different" from other timeshare companies. However, in the last 3 years, more and more deception and misrepresentations have occurred to now I deeply regret buying my timeshare from them. First they convinced that we had to convert over to points or else lose the value we had originally purchased, we paid several thousand dollars more to not have the benefits we did before - unbelievably! We can now no longer deal directly with the location we purchased from to begin with, but rather are forced to deal with the Adventure Club (Festiva), who charge $89 every time you want to make a reservation (after the first call of the year.) The whole sales pitch about benefits of points was to make those "last minute" calls and save point value... but if you have to pay for the call, you've lost your savings. I'm sick to think of how much I am paying for less benefits that we had originally (not to mention $300 more in maintenance fees - which they didn't tell us until we were just about to sign our name to the contract) - DO NOT BUY from these people - they are crooks.

 

[bhound54]

Wireless Internet Access at Southcape

Hello Friends,

I promised a report on the wireless set-up during my two weeks up at Southcape. The good news is that I’m sharing this message via one of the wireless internet access points that have been set up at the resort. I’ve been waiting for this event for years.

The bad news is that the closest wireless access point is on the other side of the building that our unit is in. To get a strong signal, I have to take my laptop to the patio of the unit of the other side of the building. It is fortunate that the weather is good this week and the unit whose patio I’m using is not occupied this week.

Oddly, there still is not an access point within the clubhouse. I have spoken to Rosaleen and Gordon, who shared my disappointment with the current coverage and will work off-season to improve it. I greatly appreciate the effort but the wireless internet at our resort is a work still in progress.

Best wishes,

Bhound54

 

[bhound54]

Our Visit with Outfield Marketing at Southcape

Hello Friends,

Before I share my thoughts about the visit that my wife and I had with Greg of Outfield Marketing, I need to relate a few of timeshare adventures that we have had over the years.

When we bought our original unit at Southcape, one of the big pitches was that with an equipped kitchen, we would save so much on meals that the saving would finance our vacation. It never quite worked out that way and it is probably just as well. Part of a vacation (for our family anyway) is to get out of our regular routine, which includes going out instead of cooking every meal in the unit.

Another pitch that we received was that if you didn’t want to use the unit, you could rent it out for more than the annual maintenance fee. While we have never tried, I’m pretty skeptical that there are many folks out there who would pay more for a Southcape week from us than the maintenance fee.

When Barth and Woods bought the unsold weeks, one of the special offers they made to owners was the ability to buy a package of weeks at a discount that could used at any of their resorts. We were tempted until a cooler head pointed out if we would not buy a week at many of those resorts individually, why would it make sense to buy package of such weeks?

So lured by the offer of a $50 Visa gift card, my wife and I entertained Greg’s pitch last week. It was pretty similar to Frank’s pitch in our home last March. My wife and I have never traded our weeks at Southcape so access to points is not an attraction to us. As in March, the pitch shifted to the almost certain risk of additional assessments and the protection of the Festiva (Intercity) trust against such a risk.

It’s a good pitch but I’m troubled by something. Southcape’s problems are pretty common among aging real estate dwellings. Who is to say that other units held in the Festiva trust don’t have similar issues that will also require special assessments? So one could spend several thousand dollars upfront to avoid special assessments, only to have to pay Festiva significantly increased maintenance fees anyway.

I have been told that on average, 50 percent of what you pay for a timeshare unit is for marketing. So I’m not surprised to find Outfield or anyone else in the business using aggressive marketing techniques. It is regrettable if anyone else feels misled.

However, I don’t think that my wife and I will be joining any class actions because we really haven’t been harmed nor have we received a good “pitch”. Is the class action pitch (upfront money for speculative returns) fundamentally different than the Outfield Marketing pitch?

Best wishes,

Bhound54

 

[nancyt]

Our complaints

Hi Ele,

I just talked to Paul at the:

Consumer assistance Council, Inc.
149 Main Street
Hyannis, MA 02601

E-Mail: cac@capecod.net
www.consumercouncil.com
Telephone: 508-771-0700
FAX: 508-771-3011


He called the Boston Attorney General's Office and found out that there are FOUR (4) complaints from SOUTHCAPE and 14 from SANDCASTLE. Part of them are at his office and part are at the New Bedford Office. In the next few days, he hopes to get all 18 at his office, so all complaints against Cliff Hagberg, NEVS, Outfield Marketing, and Festivia Adventure Club are altogether.

He said that from now on, all complaints should be directed to his office. A complaint form can be downloaded from the above website and then FAXed or sent to his office. What they need is a SIGNATURE.
Complaints need not be lengthy. The Attorney General is interested in how individuals are being hurt by any or all of the parties mentioned above and especially what number of SENIORS are being hurt.

The Attorney General will respond if it is perceived that a large number of people are being hurt.

Nancy

 

[e.bram]

Any class actionsuit would deal mainly with the fact that many developer units are not paying m/fs or SAs.(which you have to cover)

 

[Classylassy523]

He called the Boston Attorney General's Office and found out that there are FOUR (4) complaints from SOUTHCAPE and 14 from SANDCASTLE. Part of them are at his office and part are at the New Bedford Office. In the next few days, he hopes to get all 18 at his office, so all complaints against Cliff Hagberg, NEVS, Outfield Marketing, and Festivia Adventure Club are altogether.

Either people in the Attorney General's office can't count, they have papers strewn all over the place, or ten people have all started separate files on this case. Whatever the reason, if Sandcastle people are to be believed, in excess of 20 letters and complaints have been filed regarding the Sandcastle alone. I have filed 4 myself and am working on the 5th. Sandcastle people have raised questions about these numbers in the past. Contacts at the AGs office say that it doesn't matter where you send the complaints/letters, they all get counted together. I seriously doubt it. Maybe they count letters or complaints by the same person as one. If that is the case then why do they instruct people to file separate complaints for each part of the problem. Dealing with the AG is very frustrating and disconcerting.

 

[nancyt]

Number of Complaints

Contacts at the AGs office say that it doesn't matter where you send the complaints/letters, they all get counted together. I seriously doubt it. Maybe they count letters or complaints by the same person as one.

You're right! Things appear to be in disarray in the AG's office. But they are trying to get all complaints together in one place (address listed above). Yes, they count each person as one even if more information is added in other communications. BUT it's necessary for them to have ALL the details possible. If they determine that our complaints represent the complaints of many (in our case thousands), Martha's campaign would go better, if she actually helped us.

We will make a stronger case if we all join forces. Would it help for those who are in the Boston area to have a meeting? I'm coming to Massachusetts next week and could name a time and place.

 

[ChrisH]

Filed Complaints???

Either people in the Attorney General's office can't count, they have papers strewn all over the place, or ten people have all started separate files on this case. Whatever the reason, if Sandcastle people are to be believed, in excess of 20 letters and complaints have been filed regarding the Sandcastle alone. I have filed 4 myself and am working on the 5th. Sandcastle people have raised questions about these numbers in the past. Contacts at the AGs office say that it doesn't matter where you send the complaints/letters, they all get counted together. I seriously doubt it. Maybe they count letters or complaints by the same person as one. If that is the case then why do they instruct people to file separate complaints for each part of the problem. Dealing with the AG is very frustrating and disconcerting.

I have also filed three (so far) complaints, by mail to the MA AG addressing 3 separate issues at Sandcastle, each with a separate complaint form. One against Outfield and 2 against NEVS.
I have additional information to submit about these former complaints and an additional (separate issue) complaint in progress.

Are you telling me that this counts as 'one' complaint only, because they were all submitted by 'one' individual even though they address entirely different issues?

I was also told that the associated letters (no complaint form attached) but sent to the AG were also being counted.

The numbers just don't seem to add up. I could name (but won't) at least 10 -12 other people who have filed complaints with the AG - some of them multiple but separate complaints - and I'm sure I'm not counting others, especially from Southcape ( that I wouldn't have knowledge of) and some from Sandcastle as well.

I own at Sandcastle.

Chris

 

[Sou13]

Thank you, bhound54!

Hello Friends,

Before I share my thoughts about the visit that my wife and I had with Greg of Outfield Marketing, I need to relate a few of timeshare adventures that we have had over the years.

When we bought our original unit at Southcape, one of the big pitches was that with an equipped kitchen, we would save so much on meals that the saving would finance our vacation. It never quite worked out that way and it is probably just as well. Part of a vacation (for our family anyway) is to get out of our regular routine, which includes going out instead of cooking every meal in the unit.

Another pitch that we received was that if you didn’t want to use the unit, you could rent it out for more than the annual maintenance fee. While we have never tried, I’m pretty skeptical that there are many folks out there who would pay more for a Southcape week from us than the maintenance fee.

When Barth and Woods bought the unsold weeks, one of the special offers they made to owners was the ability to buy a package of weeks at a discount that could used at any of their resorts. We were tempted until a cooler head pointed out if we would not buy a week at many of those resorts individually, why would it make sense to buy package of such weeks?

So lured by the offer of a $50 Visa gift card, my wife and I entertained Greg’s pitch last week. It was pretty similar to Frank’s pitch in our home last March. My wife and I have never traded our weeks at Southcape so access to points is not an attraction to us. As in March, the pitch shifted to the almost certain risk of additional assessments and the protection of the Festiva (Intercity) trust against such a risk.

It’s a good pitch but I’m troubled by something. Southcape’s problems are pretty common among aging real estate dwellings. Who is to say that other units held in the Festiva trust don’t have similar issues that will also require special assessments? So one could spend several thousand dollars upfront to avoid special assessments, only to have to pay Festiva significantly increased maintenance fees anyway.

I have been told that on average, 50 percent of what you pay for a timeshare unit is for marketing. So I’m not surprised to find Outfield or anyone else in the business using aggressive marketing techniques. It is regrettable if anyone else feels misled.

However, I don’t think that my wife and I will be joining any class actions because we really haven’t been harmed nor have we received a good “pitch”. Is the class action pitch (upfront money for speculative returns) fundamentally different than the Outfield Marketing pitch?

Best wishes,

Bhound54

I've been holding off from replying to this because I don't want to divert attention from the important AG info that follows your Southcape update. But I do want to thank you, bhound54, for the updates, and comment on your observations.

As you point out, there are other aging resorts in the FAC and there is more than likely no way to avoid special assessments, so why pay an upfront "conversion" fee to Outfield Marketing if that's the only advantage of joining the FAC?

I'm also noting that Greg is back at Southcape. Does that mean that Frank wasn't selling enough conversions? Have you been following the Sandcastle discussions? If Greg is the Greg Hughes who was at Southcape in November, then he might have been alienating Sandcastle owners and had to be sent back to Southcape. Either that or he requested the move, because he may have been even more "bored" in Provincetown than he was in Mashpee.

If NEVS were treating owners fairly and abiding by the provisions of the Master Deed and the laws of the Commonwealth there would be no need for AG involvement or resorting to civil action. Have you attended meetings prior to this year? You might be able to fill us in on what was going on for the past 18 years when Barth and Woods stripped us of our membership on the Board of Directors!

 

[Sou13]

Where do you want us to meet?

Contacts at the AGs office say that it doesn't matter where you send the complaints/letters, they all get counted together. I seriously doubt it. Maybe they count letters or complaints by the same person as one.

You're right! Things appear to be in disarray in the AG's office. But they are trying to get all complaints together in one place (address listed above). Yes, they count each person as one even if more information is added in other communications. BUT it's necessary for them to have ALL the details possible. If they determine that our complaints represent the complaints of many (in our case thousands), Martha's campaign would go better, if she actually helped us.

We will make a stronger case if we all join forces. Would it help for those who are in the Boston area to have a meeting? I'm coming to Massachusetts next week and could name a time and place.

We will make a stronger case if we all join forces. Would it help for those who are in the Boston area to have a meeting? I'm coming to Massachusetts next week and could name a time and place.

We need to get the word out to Southcape and Sandcastle owners who live nearby. Where and when do you suggest we meet?

 

[ecwinch]

Keep in mind that AG's typically are tasked with enforcing the law, not with resolving contractual disputes between individuals. The Attorney General cannot act as your private attorney. As a law enforcement agency, the primary function of the Office of Attorney General is to represent the public at large by enforcing laws prohibiting fraudulent or deceptive trade practices that impact the public interest. In most situations, a violation of the By-Laws, is a contractual issue between two parties. The exception being where the provision of the by-laws is required by state statute or code.

If you want more traction with the AG, you might need to focus your complaint on the specific violations of the law that you feel are being committed - i.e. Chapter 183B, Section 5, Section 28, Section 30, Section 32, and Section 49; and in regard to Outfield the provisions of Chapter 93A.

Here are some tips from a blog on owner rights I am constructing:

DO focus your complaint on the specific violations of the law

DO get as many owners as possible to file a complaint

DO emphasis if you are a senior citizen. In most states, AG’s have been tasked with specific obligations regarding protection of senior citizens

DO be clear, concise, accurate, and eliminate biases and opinions

DO attach any applicable evidence to your complaint

DO use a summary cover letter if the basis of your complaint is very complicated or lengthy

DONT include your opinion on issues that you are upset about but do not represent a violation of the law or state statute

DONT vent and ramble.

DONT stretch the truth. In most states filing a false complaint is illegal.

DONT include original copies of documents.

 

[nancyt]

Eric, thanks!

Concise and helpful!

 

[nancyt]

Car Problems/MEETING

Originally, I said I'd be in Massachusetts next week, but it looks like I will be there towards the end of the month. If you are interested in getting more information about a meeting I will be setting up, contact Sou 13 for DATE and TIME. We will have copies of the laws Eric presented, complaint forms, and other information folks may have missed in our long discussions. Also, let Sou 13 know what information you need. We'll discuss what we know, what has been done so far, our efforts to consolidate with Sand Castle and what we/you would like to see happen next.

Nancy

 

[BM243923]

I drove through South Cape Resort today. It looks like a very nice resort it is too bad what is going on there.

I am staying at Sea Mist Resort where I purchased instead of South Cape.

 

[Russ45]

Hello Friends,

Before I share my thoughts about the visit that my wife and I had with Greg of Outfield Marketing, I need to relate a few of timeshare adventures that we have had over the years.

When we bought our original unit at Southcape, one of the big pitches was that with an equipped kitchen, we would save so much on meals that the saving would finance our vacation. It never quite worked out that way and it is probably just as well. Part of a vacation (for our family anyway) is to get out of our regular routine, which includes going out instead of cooking every meal in the unit.

Another pitch that we received was that if you didn’t want to use the unit, you could rent it out for more than the annual maintenance fee. While we have never tried, I’m pretty skeptical that there are many folks out there who would pay more for a Southcape week from us than the maintenance fee.

When Barth and Woods bought the unsold weeks, one of the special offers they made to owners was the ability to buy a package of weeks at a discount that could used at any of their resorts. We were tempted until a cooler head pointed out if we would not buy a week at many of those resorts individually, why would it make sense to buy package of such weeks?

So lured by the offer of a $50 Visa gift card, my wife and I entertained Greg’s pitch last week. It was pretty similar to Frank’s pitch in our home last March. My wife and I have never traded our weeks at Southcape so access to points is not an attraction to us. As in March, the pitch shifted to the almost certain risk of additional assessments and the protection of the Festiva (Intercity) trust against such a risk.

It’s a good pitch but I’m troubled by something. Southcape’s problems are pretty common among aging real estate dwellings. Who is to say that other units held in the Festiva trust don’t have similar issues that will also require special assessments? So one could spend several thousand dollars upfront to avoid special assessments, only to have to pay Festiva significantly increased maintenance fees anyway.

I have been told that on average, 50 percent of what you pay for a timeshare unit is for marketing. So I’m not surprised to find Outfield or anyone else in the business using aggressive marketing techniques. It is regrettable if anyone else feels misled.

However, I don’t think that my wife and I will be joining any class actions because we really haven’t been harmed nor have we received a good “pitch”. Is the class action pitch (upfront money for speculative returns) fundamentally different than the Outfield Marketing pitch?

Best wishes,

Bhound54

I believe the idea of the class action is if a government run state or local enforcement agency doesn't investigate the business practices under federal and state law, the lawsuit brings it for the courts to decide. The "return on investment" is that you will have your voting rights reestablished and as an owner you can have a say in how and where who runs the management of the facility and how and when Maintenance fees and special assessment fees are assessed. Right now the individual owners have no voice in the management. only the developer who has appointed the Board of Trustees with no termination date.

 

[Sou13]

How to contact me via email

Some of you who read these discussions but have never registered to post on TUG may not know how to contact me via email. To do this you click on my username on the left (where my joined date, location, resorts named, etc. are listed) and then click on "View Public Profile" if you haven't registered to post or haven't yet signed in. Either way you will need to register to post and sign in in order to "Send email to Sou13" if you aren't already on my Southcape elist.

My elist is confidential and your concern about Southcape is greatly appreciated.

 

[Classylassy523]

I believe the idea of the class action is if a government run state or local enforcement agency doesn't investigate the business practices under federal and state law, the lawsuit brings it for the courts to decide. The "return on investment" is that you will have your voting rights reestablished and as an owner you can have a say in how and where who runs the management of the facility and how and when Maintenance fees and special assessment fees are assessed. Right now the individual owners have no voice in the management. only the developer who has appointed the Board of Trustees with no termination date.

And if you love your resort, the investment is well worth it. Not to speak of the pleasure to put Cliff Hagberg, NEVS, NEVMS, Outfield Marketing and Festiva Resorts in their places.

 

[Classylassy523]

How are the employees fairing at Southcape?

Word came out today that they are falling to the Festiva axe at Sandcastle. This is standard operating procedure for Festiva. Get rid of any employees who may have allegiance with the owners. Get rid of employees who know what is going on behind the scenes.

There has to be some way to stop this from happening. Between the two resorts there should be enough owners who care enough about their resort and the loyal employees to be able to unite and fight these fiends off.

 

[Sou13]

I'm under the impression that the employees are being required to encourage owners to convert to Festiva points. That's the impression I got when I spent Memorial Day weekend there.

 

[Classylassy523]

Cliff has stated that he is firing for cause

I'm under the impression that the employees are being required to encourage owners to convert to Festiva points. That's the impression I got when I spent Memorial Day weekend there.

When questioned about the firing of long time employees at Sandcastle, Cliff stated it was done with cause and could have had criminal charges. I personally don't believe any of it. Firing long time employees is part of what Festiva does when they prey upon a resort.

 

[bhound54]

Southcape thread?

Hello Friends,

On this list I see postings for both the Sandcastle and Southcape Resorts. I wish the Sandcastle owners well but my wife and I only own at Southcape. I recognize the potential tie-in if a class-action suit is initiated but would ask in general that posts of a purely Sandcastle nature be posted to a different list.

I raise this issue as a reply to this thread because the poster (Soul3) is implying that the Southcape employees are encouraging owners to convert to the Festiva Vacation Club and that old-time employees are being terminated. My wife and I just finished using our two weeks (34-35) and in my opinion, this assertion is not accurate at all.

At the last Southcape Owners Meeting this year, Cliff went out of his way to express his (and my) admiration for how Rosaleen Cassidy runs the resort. With the except of one maintenance man (Kevin), we saw the same employees that we have seen for several seasons.

No Southcape employee has ever encouraged us to convert to the Festiva Vacation Club. We have entertained "pitches" from Outfield Marketing employees and there is no need for me to repeat my reaction here.

Again, I encourage all civil on-topic posts to this discussion group but please be careful not to post content to this Southcape discussion group about facts or opinions that only relate to the Sandcastle Resort.

Bhound54