[2006] SVO Resale: Yes you can requalify/retro [MERGED]

[Ken555]

I think though that Starwood was using a very old purchase date (must own by 1/2008 if I recall correctly) when they brought Springs and Falls into the system.

Yes, it was purchased by 1/1/08 and registered as an owner with Starwood by 3/1/08 (or 3/31, I forget).

 

[vistana101]

Just want to clarify, a U.S. mainland developer must be at least 20,000 dollars in order to get a resale retroed.

 

[jarta]

vistana101, ... "Just want to clarify, a U.S. mainland developer must be at least 20,000 dollars in order to get a resale retroed."

I'm not sure I exactly understand what you were saying in your post. However, the $20K is for a new purchase from Starwood at a resort that is not in the Caribbean or Hawaii. Or, you can state it as mainland US and Mexico.

The size and season and location of the unit retroed does not matter.

You can retro a 3-br lockoff in Platinum season at Harborside which you purchased on eBay by buying a EY or OY 2-br lockoff in Platinum season for $21,450 at Lagunamar. Or, if you purchase something at St. John or Hawaii, you can retro the same Harborside unit - but you have to spend $40,000+ for your St.John or Hawaii purchase.

In September of 2008, I retroed a Platinum 3-br at Harborside that I bought resale (and another Platinum 2-br resale at WKV) by buying 1 EY and 1 OY 2-br units at Lagunamar because I wanted to add the 196,900 Harborside StarOptions (and the 148,100 StarOptions at WKV) to my elite status to get to 5 Star Elite. And, I wanted the ability to reserve the Harborside 3-br lockoff at 12 months, stay at the 1-br part of the lockoff (a larger pie-shaped deluxe unit at the building corner that has a real balcony) in Platinum Season, cancel the reservation for the 2-br portion and use those StarOptions returned to me for a reservation elsewhere (or convert them into StarPoints).

It made sense for me but might not for others. Generally, unless you are going for 5 Star Elite, retroing a mandatory resort makes little sense since you already can use the StarOptions for internal trades.

Anyway, going for 5 Star Elite (even with retroing units bought on eBay), is a horribly expensive endeavor/commitment. To get there you have to have the money to purchase the necessary units, the money to pay the 5-6 MF on 2-br units and the ability to use the StarOptions to take vacations 5-6 weeks a year (maybe 10-12 if you go in lesser seasons).

BTW, because of my Elite status, I am staying at Lagunamar in building 5 (dead center) on the top floor and looking straight out at the pools and the ocean for the next 2 weeks. It's exactly the view I requested.

Think hard and long about the benefits and detriments before buying something from Starwood directly just to do a retro. It does not make sense in very many cases. ... eom

 

[vistana101]

vistana101, ... "Just want to clarify, a U.S. mainland developer must be at least 20,000 dollars in order to get a resale retroed."

I'm not sure I exactly understand what you were saying in your post. However, the $20K is for a new purchase from Starwood at a resort that is not in the Caribbean or Hawaii. Or, you can state it as mainland US and Mexico.

The size and season and location of the unit retroed does not matter.

You can retro a 3-br lockoff in Platinum season at Harborside which you purchased on eBay by buying a EY or OY 2-br lockoff in Platinum season for $21,450 at Lagunamar. Or, if you purchase something at St. John or Hawaii, you can retro the same Harborside unit - but you have to spend $40,000+ for your St.John or Hawaii purchase.

In September of 2008, I retroed a Platinum 3-br at Harborside that I bought resale (and another Platinum 2-br resale at WKV) by buying 1 EY and 1 OY 2-br units at Lagunamar because I wanted to add the 196,900 Harborside StarOptions (and the 148,100 StarOptions at WKV) to my elite status to get to 5 Star Elite. And, I wanted the ability to reserve the Harborside 3-br lockoff at 12 months, stay at the 1-br part of the lockoff (a larger pie-shaped deluxe unit at the building corner that has a real balcony) in Platinum Season, cancel the reservation for the 2-br portion and use those StarOptions returned to me for a reservation elsewhere (or convert them into StarPoints).

It made sense for me but might not for others. Generally, unless you are going for 5 Star Elite, retroing a mandatory resort makes little sense since you already can use the StarOptions for internal trades.

Anyway, going for 5 Star Elite (even with retroing units bought on eBay), is a horribly expensive endeavor/commitment. To get there you have to have the money to purchase the necessary units, the money to pay the 5-6 MF on 2-br units and the ability to use the StarOptions to take vacations 5-6 weeks a year (maybe 10-12 if you go in lesser seasons).

BTW, because of my Elite status, I am staying at Lagunamar in building 5 (dead center) on the top floor and looking straight out at the pools and the ocean for the next 2 weeks. It's exactly the view I requested.

Think hard and long about the benefits and detriments before buying something from Starwood directly just to do a retro. It does not make sense in very many cases. ... eom

I think I am going to simply stick with purchasing a mandatory resort. Thank you for your advice.

 

[J4all]

Retro from an agreement in '06

What a great site, looking forward to getting the most of our ts's by snooping around. My question/plea for help, has to do with the original thread by Duke. We had purchased a wmh 2/2 eoy in '04/'05. In '06 went to a presentation for the LM and the deciding factor in purchasing a studio eoy was that they(William/Bill, we think) told us they would retro our wmh. He did mention it was something that they normally "don't do". We bought it, they sent us the paper work to sign(old owners purchase papers. etc..) we sent them back and didn't think too much of it. Recently we've discovered nothing was ever done and a person named Chase from wmh's, refuses to do anything about it. He "believes" us, but that's not how "they" do things now. It's very frustrating knowing what we were told, what we signed and then being turned out on our ears. What should our next step be? We've just filed a complaint with the bbb in our area and are very tempted to picket out front of the wmh. Any help from the sages on this forum?

 

[Captron]

J4

You should have gotten a retro sheet in your paper work. Check your file IF you can find it. (I don't know if I could in a weeked) If you did, I would tell them to honor their obligation or you could consider the whole contract null and void based on a breach on their part.

If you did not get in writing.."X Y Z will be added to SVN with XXXX Star Options..." then I am afraid you got bit by the "if it isn't in the contract in writing" bug and may have to live and learn from this one. I am sorry if this is the case.

 

[DavidnRobin]

I worried about the same issue when I did my retro during our stay at WKV (I wrote a long thread about my experience that is imbedded in one of the posts on the requal thread). I made sure I got something in writing in case 'Corporate' did not allow the retro - I was breaking a few so-called rules at the time. I also followed-up all the way through the process, and must give kudos to the SVO sales at WKV for knowing what they were doing.

I mention the document that I had about the retro in my thread - I cannot recall what the document was called - but get it in writing (always) - for all contracts.

Of course - while I got a 'deal' from SVO at the time - my EOY WPORV is worth 1/3 of what I paid just 2-3 years ago.
Luckily I got ~225K SPs from the WPORV purchase - so I can now use 'fuzzy math' to feel better about the purchase (YES! that 5 nite stay at the Westin Paris was really worth $1100 per nite... lol)

 

[J4all]

Thanks for the replies, unfortunately, I did not copy the paperwork that I signed and sent back to them. I may have to work my way up the ladder and see how many feathers I can ruffle... The only paperwork I have from the presentation is a paper that shows how many points we would get for our 1 week at the wmh and how many we would get the other year with the LM week.

 

[DanCali]

Thanks for the replies, unfortunately, I did not copy the paperwork that I signed and sent back to them. I may have to work my way up the ladder and see how many feathers I can ruffle... The only paperwork I have from the presentation is a paper that shows how many points we would get for our 1 week at the wmh and how many we would get the other year with the LM week.

Before you ruffle any feathers, I'd call owner services and ask for someone in the document administration department. Ask to speak to someone on the phone directly rather than leave a voice mal and then tell them you think you misplaced the copies you had, and ask them to send you a copy of everything you signed.

 

[Fredm]

In the words of Forrest Gump

Stupid is as stupid does.

A Starwood owner wishes to attain Five Star.
They must retro a 148,100 resale to get there.

Starwood wants to sell them an annual at Princeville. The owner wishes to buy it.

The owner wants to purchase 2 resale eoy's (an even and an odd) at WKORVN to get the needed 148,100.

Starwood won't let them retro the 2 eoy's. They will only qualify one of them, leaving the owner short.

Of course, the owner could buy an annual instead. But, they want 2 eoy's for their own reasons. Starwood says "too bad".

I'm amazed.

 

[jerseygirl]

I'm amazed.

I'm not! Nothing they do amazes me anymore.
:hysterical:

 

[DavidnRobin]

Sorry to ruin it for all those following me...

 

[DanCali]

Stupid is as stupid does.

A Starwood owner wishes to attain Five Star.
They must retro a 148,100 resale to get there.

Starwood wants to sell them an annual at Princeville. The owner wishes to buy it.

The owner wants to purchase 2 resale eoy's (an even and an odd) at WKORVN to get the needed 148,100.

Starwood won't let them retro the 2 eoy's. They will only qualify one of them, leaving the owner short.

Of course, the owner could buy an annual instead. But, they want 2 eoy's for their own reasons. Starwood says "too bad".

I'm amazed.

Unless you retro in two HRA 3BR Plat (2*196K + 2*148K), you have to do 3 developer purchases to get there (4*148K < 649K and 3*148K + 196K < 649K). Hence, you don't have to retro 148K on each occasion, especially if you also buy 148K from the developer...

In fact, you can get there with (2*148K) + (2*95.7K) + (2*81K).

Retroing using Hawaii or Bahamas developer purchases is not among the cheapest ways to get there anyway.

I actually respect that Starwood has the same rules for everyone. Silly or not, it's one retro for 1 retail purchase. It's our job to find the optimal path for us within those contraints. I'd be pretty upset if Starwood told me "no" but made an exception for the next guy...

 

[Fredm]

Unless you retro in two HRA 3BR Plat (2*196K + 2*148K), you have to do 3 developer purchases to get there (4*148K < 649K and 3*148K + 196K < 649K). Hence, you don't have to retro 148K on each occasion, especially if you also buy 148K from the developer...

In fact, you can get there with (2*148K) + (2*95.7K) + (2*81K).

Retroing using Hawaii or Bahamas developer purchases is not among the cheapest ways to get there anyway.

I actually respect that Starwood has the same rules for everyone. Silly or not, it's one retro for 1 retail purchase. It's our job to find the optimal path for us within those contraints. I'd be pretty upset if Starwood told me "no" but made an exception for the next guy...

Dan,

The owner is not looking for an "optimal" path. They want to own Maui. As mentioned, they could buy an annual instead (for less money). Problem solved. They simply want to buy 2 eoy's to represent the annual use.

I get the one retro for 1"equivalent" purchase part. If it were the other way around Starwood would permit it. They would sell 2 eoy's to retro an annual. So, it really is semantics.

The owner can now decide to buy an annual for retro (instead of 2 eoy's), or tell Starwood to shove it.
If the later, Starwood loses the sale. As I said, Stupid is as stupid does.

 

[oneohana]

Dan,

The owner is not looking for an "optimal" path. They want to own Maui. As mentioned, they could buy an annual instead (for less money). Problem solved. They simply want to buy 2 eoy's to represent the annual use.

I get the one retro for 1"equivalent" purchase part. If it were the other way around Starwood would permit it. They would sell 2 eoy's to retro an annual. So, it really is semantics.

The owner can now decide to buy an annual for retro (instead of 2 eoy's), or tell Starwood to shove it.
If the later, Starwood loses the sale. As I said, Stupid is as stupid does.

So they want to be special and retro "2 weeks" with 1 developer?
They should have done this a few years ago, and they might of had a chance.

Should Starwood make an exception here? Would you tell us if they did?

Retroing has always been a crap shoot with *wood. I couldn't get some deals others did. I was even dealing through the corporate office. But, I know I got some deals others didn't.

 

[Fredm]

So they want to be special and retro "2 weeks" with 1 developer?

No. They want to retro 2 half weeks for one full week.

 

[DanCali]

I get the one retro for 1"equivalent" purchase part. If it were the other way around Starwood would permit it. They would sell 2 eoy's to retro an annual. So, it really is semantics.

It doesn't have to be an equivalent unit... In fact you can retro a 3BR Annual HRA for 1 EOY retail purchase as long as you spend 20K (mainland or mexico). E.G WLR EOY Plat is listed at $27,900 so that could retro 196K Annual SOs (I think this is what jarta did)

By the way- would they really let you retro a week if you were to buy 2 EOY mainland units for say $12K each? Is that verified or just speculation? If that's right, I can see the argument because as I understand it that shouldn't qualify for a retro.

No. They want to retro 2 half weeks for one full week.

"Half week" is a semantic that suits this particular owner.

You can equally argue that thay should also allow retroing 1 EY 81K SOs and 1 EY 67K SOs as part of 1 retail purchase. That would be 2 EY 1BRs instead of 1 EY 2BR Lockoff... it also "makes sense" if someone were to have that particular situation.

I guess the way I see it is that the rules are what they are... retroing is not an owner entitlement - it's meant to promote sales. At least they give the option to retro, which Marriott doesn't.

 

[Ken555]

"Half week" is a semantic that suits this particular owner.

You can equally argue that thay should also allow retroing 1 EY 81K SOs and 1 EY 67K SOs as part of 1 retail purchase. That would be 2 EY 1BRs instead of 1 EY 2BR Lockoff... it also "makes sense" if someone were to have that particular situation.

Well said. Yet another verification that Starwood's purchasing policies aren't balanced consistently. I absolutely agree that one 2-bed purchase should equal a similar value in retro... could be 2, 1-bed units EY, or even 4 1-bed units EOY. And it doesn't hurt SVN to offer this... if an existing owner has weeks they want to retro there's no practical difference (other than perhaps a few $$ per year on SVN dues, but after 3 it's no add'l cost anyway). I agree with Fred, there's no reason other than a perceived sales value (which, in TUGs consensus opinion, appears to be zero) in encouraging existing buyers to purchase more than they need, or want.

It's just crazy in these times for any sales outfit to let a potential buyer walk for any reason.

 

[jerseygirl]

It's just crazy in these times for any sales outfit to let a potential buyer walk for any reason.

Yes, but Starwood has proven time and time again that they're a spiteful organization. For some sadistic purpose (not shared by their more successful competitors -- Marriott, Hyatt, Hilton), they target their policies to "stick it to" the small minority of resale buyers. But, it's a very short-sighted practice -- little or no marketability of voluntary weeks leads to increased delinquencies .... which leads to increased maintenance fees .... which leads to more delinquencies ..... AND DECREASED DEVELOPER SALES (it's hard to make those little arrows work when the maintenance fee exceed comparable rental rates).

Three words: Deck chairs, Titanic.

 

[DeniseM]

In this market you would think they would really ramp up their requal program and make it easy and accessible. Why else would anyone buy from the developer?????

 

[jerseygirl]

Ah .... but they're just not that smart Denise!

 

[Fredm]

Ah .... but they're just not that smart Denise!

Exactly what I have been saying. THAT was my entire point.

Starwood can make whatever rules it wants. It's their system.

The ONLY motivation for buying the annual Princeville from Starwood is the retro of WKORVN. The owner has thus far purchased neither (although they already own developer purchased KORN).

All this gobbledygook about permitting the retro of an annual KORN, but not permitting the retro of 2 eoy's (worth exactly the same thing) is stupid.

And, yes, Dan. You can bet the ranch that Starwood would allow the purchase of 2 eoy's in the same contract to retro an annual. All they have to do is spend 40k.

So, the owner is free to make their choices. One of which is to tell Starwood to keep the annual Princeville they were willing to buy for way too much money.

 

[Bill4728]

New info on price to retro

Posted by Vistana101
A couple things to know:
Starwood just lowered the price to 15k(mainland) to retro a resale.
They are trying to take away SP as incentives to buy

posted by Fredm
Starwood lowered the Hawaii retro qualifying price to $27,500, from $40,000, as well.

 

[trader14]

so i was going over the last few pages and for a while starwood wasn't letting you combine staroptions however i think that changed a little while ago. does starwood allow you to combine staroptions to gain elite still?

 

[DeniseM]

so i was going over the last few pages and for a while starwood wasn't letting you combine staroptions however i think that changed a little while ago. does starwood allow you to combine staroptions to gain elite still?

I think you are talking about 2 different issues.

"Combining Staroptions" usually refers to using both resale and developer Staroptions on the same Starwood reservation - yes, it's allowed.

However, to count towards Elite status, all weeks must either be purchased from the developer, or requalified by buying a matching week from the developer, at full price. You cannot use a resale towards Elite Status, unless you requalify it.