You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars

[easyrider]

If you are using Tesla's FSD and get in an accident wouldn't you be charged with a crime depending on how severe the accident is ? At the very least maybe distracted driving ? Eventually, if FSD catches on and is used while in a fatality type accident, wouldn't someone be charged with man slaughter if they were doing something other than driving the self driving car ?

Bill

 

[easyrider]

But you'd have to go to Mexico to drive a Chinese car

We are in Mexico for 5 to 6 weeks a year and I've never seen a BYD yet. All it would take to ruin a battery is one tope.

Bill

 

[DrQ]

If you are using Tesla's FSD and get in an accident wouldn't you be charged with a crime depending on how severe the accident is ? At the very least maybe distracted driving ? Eventually, if FSD catches on and is used while in a fatality type accident, wouldn't someone be charged with man slaughter if they were doing something other than driving the self driving car ?

Bill

YOU are always responsible no matter the level of automation engaged.

The only case of a fatality involving a fully automatic robotaxi was a woman who was hit by a human driven car and she was thrown into the Cruise equipped Bolt EV. Cruise was fine $1.5 million, not for the accident, but for omitting key details in the accident report.

The most famous case of an "autonomous" vehicle fatality was in Tempe AZ, but the safety driver was charged with the accident because she was watching videos on her smartphone and not doing her job.

There was a case of an autonomous 18 wheeler being involved in a accident on I45 between DFW and Houston, but it was caused by the human driver of another 18 wheeler that cut off the autonomous truck and ran it off the road. The autonomous truck was able to pull itself off to the side of the road with no injuries.

 

[Ken555]

Even if they eventually come here - it won't be much cheaper due to tariffs. Most of the EU is similar, and the cheap $10k Yugo equivalent models (similar to a Smart car) with a range of only 100-125 miles won't fly here in the US with all of our focus on range anxiety. In the UK, the Tesla Model 3 has a lower starting price (£39,990) than the BYD Seal (£45,695), though the dual-motor versions are closer in price (£49,990 for Model 3 Long Range AWD vs. £48,695 for Seal Excellent AWD). The BYD Seal is the equivalent model to the Tesla M3 for those who aren't aware.

The BYD Seal looks very nice. I've seen BYDs in other countries, and I think they would sell quite well in the US, tariffs notwithstanding. Similarly, the Kia EV6 seems to be a contender for city driving. And, I'm partial to CarPlay and still disappointed that Tesla doesn't include that.

 

[Brett]

Even if they eventually come here - it won't be much cheaper due to tariffs. Most of the EU is similar, and the cheap $10k Yugo equivalent models (similar to a Smart car) with a range of only 100-125 miles won't fly here in the US with all of our focus on range anxiety. In the UK, the Tesla Model 3 has a lower starting price (£39,990) than the BYD Seal (£45,695), though the dual-motor versions are closer in price (£49,990 for Model 3 Long Range AWD vs. £48,695 for Seal Excellent AWD). The BYD Seal is the equivalent model to the Tesla M3 for those who aren't aware.

Of course. But it will be interesting if BYD cars can ever be sold in the US without tariffs

.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/08/opinion/byd-china-car-ev.html

 

[buzglyd]

BYD is a Chinese data collector with wheels. I wouldn’t have one if it was free.

 

[easyrider]

The BYD Seal looks very nice. I've seen BYDs in other countries, and I think they would sell quite well in the US, tariffs notwithstanding. Similarly, the Kia EV6 seems to be a contender for city driving. And, I'm partial to CarPlay and still disappointed that Tesla doesn't include that.

Those Kia EV6's do look nice. I read the Kia ev6 depreciates about 60% in 3 years or sooner. That's like $11,000 a year. A $54,000 car after 3 years is worth about $21,000. It's not just the Kia ev's. All of the ev's are having the depreciation problem.

The other thing is I'm not a fan of Kia or Hyundai. I kind of think they are junk with long problematic warranties.

Bill

 

[easyrider]

BYD is a Chinese data collector with wheels. I wouldn’t have one if it was free.

I wouldn't want one unless it were free, lol. I wonder in my Nord would load on a BYD, lol.

Bill

 

[HitchHiker71]

If you are using Tesla's FSD and get in an accident wouldn't you be charged with a crime depending on how severe the accident is ? At the very least maybe distracted driving ? Eventually, if FSD catches on and is used while in a fatality type accident, wouldn't someone be charged with man slaughter if they were doing something other than driving the self driving car ?

Bill

The current version of FSD is called FSD(Supervised) and therefore it is only classified as a L2 ADAS system which means the driver is always responsible and must be paying attention, so the liability sits with the driver no matter what. When FSD(Unsupervised) is released, it is not entirely clear at the moment where the liability will fall. Laws and insurance companies will have to adapt. Tesla may or may not accept liability at first. I suspect initially that FSD(U) will be released at the L3 layer - which means when the system is engaged the driver doesn’t have to pay attention, until the system flashes red and indicates the driver must take over. Then we will jump up to L4/L5 autonomous ratings, where there won’t even be steering wheels or pedals in the vehicle, no human driver at all. At that point Tesla will likely take on the liability. This is an evolving area from a legal standpoint.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HitchHiker71]

The BYD Seal looks very nice. I've seen BYDs in other countries, and I think they would sell quite well in the US, tariffs notwithstanding. Similarly, the Kia EV6 seems to be a contender for city driving. And, I'm partial to CarPlay and still disappointed that Tesla doesn't include that.

Tesla FSD works best in urban areas, I’d only buy a Tesla if I was dealing with city driving for this reason alone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[easyrider]

I wasn't really looking for the model x but they have really come down on price. I've seen the 2020 model x with 40,000 to 60,000 miles priced at about $30,000. I think the MSRP on these was about $80,000+. That's about $10,000 a year depreciation.

I do like the way these look but I'm not a fan of the back doors.

Bill

 

[Elan]

Really have to wonder about the short term future of EV in the US. Tesla sales are down and with the tax credit soon to disappear, I expect overall EV sales to drop as well. Really unfortunate, as the charging infrastructure is finally approaching an acceptable level while the vehicle prices have also become more palatable. Will be interesting to watch going forward.

Sent from my Pixel 9a using Tapatalk

 

[emeryjre]

I really wonder about the future of the Vehicle Industry in the US in the future

 

[Emmjay]

I am considering buying a PHEV so I looked at the list of cars eligible for the credits that end on September 31. There is only one listed as a PHEV and I recall it’s a Chrysler van Id never heard of. Chrysler is owned by some other company now. There were two separate $3500 credits, one made in USA and one dealing with battery materials sourcing.

 

[easyrider]

I am considering buying a PHEV so I looked at the list of cars eligible for the credits that end on September 31. There is only one listed as a PHEV and I recall it’s a Chrysler van Id never heard of. Chrysler is owned by some other company now. There were two separate $3500 credits, one made in USA and one dealing with battery materials sourcing.

I find it hard to trust any company other than Toyota regarding PHEV.

Bill

 

[easyrider]

I really wonder about the future of the Vehicle Industry in the US in the future

Same here. It doesn't make any sense to me to buy any of the newer vehicles built for emissions standards as the engines are small powerful turbo types that will wear out quick. I also don't like anything with a cylinder deactivation.

Bill

 

[Greg G]

I am considering buying a PHEV so I looked at the list of cars eligible for the credits that end on September 31. There is only one listed as a PHEV and I recall it’s a Chrysler van Id never heard of. Chrysler is owned by some other company now. There were two separate $3500 credits, one made in USA and one dealing with battery materials sourcing.

So an alternative, which I and many others have done, is to lease the vehicle and then turn around and immediately buy it out. EV, and PHEV vehicle manufacturers get a federal tax credit for commercial use, like leasing, of these types of vehicles regardless of where the components are manufactured. So I got a 2024 Rav4 Prime (PHEV) , completely made in Japan, by leasing it and then immediately buying the lease out within a month. Toyota passed on down $6500 of that $7500 federal tax credit as lease cash. So all, in all you can save around $5500 using this method over no lease and just outright purchasing the vehicle (assuming you are not in a double tax state, or you are in a double tax state and can get a One Pay Lease and the state only taxes the sum total of all lease payments for the term upfront).

This greatly increases the list of potential EV, PHEV vehicles you can look at. But again, you need to do this before the end of Sep 2025

There are many forums on reddit, as well as lease hacker on this method.

 

[Emmjay]

Wonderful tip. I may head to the dealership today to check it out. Thanks.

 

[Emmjay]

So an alternative, which I and many others have done, is to lease the vehicle and then turn around and immediately buy it out. EV, and PHEV vehicle manufacturers get a federal tax credit for commercial use, like leasing, of these types of vehicles regardless of where the components are manufactured. So I got a 2024 Rav4 Prime (PHEV) , completely made in Japan, by leasing it and then immediately buying the lease out within a month. Toyota passed on down $6500 of that $7500 federal tax credit as lease cash. So all, in all you can save around $5500 using this method over no lease and just outright purchasing the vehicle (assuming you are not in a double tax state, or you are in a double tax state and can get a One Pay Lease and the state only taxes the sum total of all lease payments for the term upfront).

This greatly increases the list of potential EV, PHEV vehicles you can look at. But again, you need to do this before the end of Sep 2025

There are many forums on reddit, as well as lease hacker on this method.

I think GA is a double tax state but will go to the DMV to renew my license and ask them.

 

[Greg G]

I think GA is a double tax state but will go to the DMV to renew my license and ask them.

Per this link https://www.rickhendrickbuickgmcatl...Jh0lCPXJJQGSFTKvR_cD7tLb_K2YH1On3OQPlbatz9XG0 it is a double sales tax state but the tax is paid upfront on the total of the terms lease payments and not the purchase price of the vehicle.
Thus a One Pay Lease can completely eliminate the double sales tax, so you should be able to still save around $5500 (of the $6500 lease cash) using the lease and immediate buyout method and a One Pay Lease, over just buying the vehicle without a lease. In this double sales tax state, with a normal lease, not a One Pay Lease, for an immediate buyout of a lease, you would be paying more sales tax than without a lease by the sales tax on the total depreciation (minus one month) and the sales tax on the total rent charge (i.e. on the interest) for the total term of the lease. So if the lease had say $600 monthly payments for 36 months, then you are paying an additional 36 * 600 * sales tax rate . So say the sales tax was 7% then you would lose an additional 36 * 600 * 0.057 = $1512 off the savings. So instead of around $5500 you would only save $5500 - 1512 = $3988 using the lease and immediate buyout using a Normal lease.
A way to mitigate this if a normal lease is used is to make a large down payment which reduces the double tax by the sales tax on the down payment and the sales tax on the difference in the total rent charge.

Here is another link on where apparently you can choose either the new method or the old method for lease sales tax.

VERIFY: Can you be charged twice for ad valorem taxes on the same car?

One man had to pay his ad valorem tax twice; once when he started leasing his Honda Civic, and again when he decided to buy it.

www.13wmaz.com

 

[Emmjay]

Thank you so much for finding such helpful and specific information. You seem very knowledgeable. I have never leased a car before but rnjoy reading about deals on leasehackr.com—although I never saw this deal.

I am cramming to get up to date on the automotive industry consolidations and changes.

 

[Greg G]

Thank you so much for finding such helpful and specific information. You seem very knowledgeable. I have never leased a car before but rnjoy reading about deals on leasehackr.com—although I never saw this deal.

I am cramming to get up to date on the automotive industry consolidations and changes.

This reddit forum https://www.reddit.com/r/rav4prime/ on the Rav4 Prime (which also now covers 2025 and beyond Rav4 PHEVs) have many, many posts on this lease and immediate buyout method. I also believe there are similar forums for using this method for other Manufactures EVs, PHEVs (KIA, VW, etc).

 

[emeryjre]

Is it true that a license to drive an EV has to be a charge card

 

[HitchHiker71]

Is it true that a license to drive an EV has to be a charge card

Not sure what you mean?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[easyrider]

Is it true that a license to drive an EV has to be a charge card

No, All you need is a current license, lol.

Bill