Banned from attending WM Sale Presentations

[CO skier]

They have tracking system and when they know you are just going in for the gifts with no intention of buying they stop offering.

This is "mostly" untrue. The marketing department just wants bodies signed-up for a presentation. They do not care about intent to buy or not. Just read the posts in this forum and the Club Wyndham forum where owners attend presentations and receive gifts within days or weeks or the previous presentation.

I was once (years ago) on some kind of "S&S" list where I was not invited to presentations, but it turned out to be at only that one resort, and apparently for only a limited time. I must no longer be on that list for the past couple of years and recently attended my (over all resorts 50ish-plus) "owner update" at that resort. The presenter learned a few critical facts about the lousy Vacation Share program from me, including the ridiculous and totally unfair 15-day customer cancellation policy (not sure it sank in for his future presentations), so Wyndham received something for the $150 worth of local restaurant vouchers at my favorite restaurant in town.

 

[x3 skier]

They have tracking system and when they know you are just going in for the gifts with no intention of buying they stop offering.

Apparently Hilton doesn’t. The last one I went to in DC, the head weasel told me after I flatly stated I was there because of the cheap rate offer that I would NEVER be offered again. After I few months, I started getting offers again, usually once a week.

 

[JohnPaul]

They have tracking system and when they know you are just going in for the gifts with no intention of buying they stop offering. Promos are for potential buyers. They had big basket full of wine etc for my daughter; she’s only 18 & went to Disneyland with her besties from HS after graduation. All they knew was that she’s a guest on our account. When they saw her they asked if she wanted a free soda instead and skipped the “presentation” spill and gift basket. Need to be 25 to qualify.

Apparently we have attended 75 or more presentations since our original WM Developer purchase of 7,000 credits in 2001. We now own 38,000 with all the additional being resale. We are still asked to attend presentations at nearly every resort. I get Wyndham Rewards Points and so far this year have used them for:

2 Nights at WM Portland
4 nights at WM Camlin/Seattle
2 Nights at WM Moab
1 night La Quinta Ely, NV
1 night Ceasars Republic, Stateline, NV

Booked for later this year

4 nights WM Angles Camp, CA
3 nights WM Birch Bay, WA

If they want to keep inviting us and gifting us, I'm happy to oblige. Decent money for a retiree.

P.S. I typically negotiate for more than the original offer.

 

[BeeNBeek]

Apparently we have attended 75 or more presentations since our original WM Developer purchase of 7,000 credits in 2001. We now own 38,000 with all the additional being resale. We are still asked to attend presentations at nearly every resort. I get Wyndham Rewards Points and so far this year have used them for:

2 Nights at WM Portland
4 nights at WM Camlin/Seattle
2 Nights at WM Moab
1 night La Quinta Ely, NV
1 night Ceasars Republic, Stateline, NV

Booked for later this year

4 nights WM Angles Camp, CA
3 nights WM Birch Bay, WA

If they want to keep inviting us and gifting us, I'm happy to oblige. Decent money for a retiree.

P.S. I typically negotiate for more than the original offer.

If you have the time and find value in those points. Why not work the system. Good for you. My husband’s schedule isn’t flexible and I usually reserve vacations with family. It’s not worth gas money or flights for 1-3 nights booked a year in advance, booking it in conjunction with points currently owned gives more bang for the buck.

 

[BeeNBeek]

When you brought additional resale shares what process did you go through to combine them with your current shares?

 

[JohnPaul]

When you brought additional resale shares what process did you go through to combine them with your current shares?

The only process you can use is asking WM/Wyndham to combine them.

It used to be straightforward but now its a mess unless the new credits and existing credits have the same renewal month.

The last combine they made a zillion mistakes. Some were in my favor and some weren't. I feel like I came out about behind but not enough to rock the boat and have them screw it up more and maybe lock my account while they investigated.

If I ever buy more I wasn't to combine they will have the same anniversary as my existing credits.

 

[Travelingman1]

So first off all, given that they pretensions are not 90 minutes (In my experience YMMV) and what I get from them works out to like $35-$45 an hour. I am a resort on vacation, I don't want to go to an update and what I get isn't worth it.

Additionally most major developers (Wyndham, Hilton, Marriott, etc.) have strict corporate compliance policy on paper. In theory they enforce rules like: No more than one promotional tour every 6 to 12 months, or a lifetime cap of X tours per property. I don't think in practice they care.

 

[davidvel]

So first off all, given that they pretensions are not 90 minutes (In my experience YMMV) and what I get from them works out to like $35-$45 an hour. I am a resort on vacation, I don't want to go to an update and what I get isn't worth it.

Additionally most major developers (Wyndham, Hilton, Marriott, etc.) have strict corporate compliance policy on paper. In theory they enforce rules like: No more than one promotional tour every 6 to 12 months, or a lifetime cap of X tours per property. I don't think in practice they care.

Do you have a cite/source for this "corporate compliance policy?" Never seen/heard of it.

Our last 3 Marriott sales meetings have been under 30 minutes, so I concur on the not 90 minutes.

 

[easyrider]

I don't think in practice they care.

They don't. We left a WM resort and checked into another and the sales team was all over us. We left there and checked in at a different WM using bonus time and they were all over us to attend again. We did all two for 1500 credits each presentation and one for Uber and gift cards that added up to over $300.

Bill

 

[Travelingman1]

Do you have a cite/source for this "corporate compliance policy?" Never seen/heard of it.

Our last 3 Marriott sales meetings have been under 30 minutes, so I concur on the not 90 minutes.

Absolutely, here are the exact published corporate guidelines for the big 3 and the links where you can read them:​

1. Marriott Vacation Club (MVCI)​

Marriott is highly specific about frequency caps, particularly for virtual or corporate direct sales updates.

• The "One Per Year / 6-Month" Rule: According to Marriott’s official Details of Participation: "individuals are legally ineligible if they have participated in a Marriott, Sheraton, or Westin Vacation Club promotion within the past year, or if they have taken a virtual sales presentation within the last 6 months."
• The Lifetime Cap: For certain regional marketing arms (such as their Asia-Pacific/Tokyo directives), Marriott explicitly explicitly states a hard ceiling: "Those who have previously attended a Marriott Vacation Club sales presentation over 3 times... are not eligible for this offer."
• Source: The Marriott Vacation Clubs Ownership Offers & Details of Participation Legal Disclosures.

Vacation Offers

Vacation Offers

themarriottvacationclubs.marriott.com

2. Wyndham Vacation Resorts (Club Wyndham / WorldMark)​

Wyndham has standard frequency caps baked directly into their promotional terms to stop people from jumping from resort to resort purely for rewards.

• The 90-Day / Annual Cap: Wyndham’s general eligibility states: "You must wait 90 days between presentations, Owners must wait 30 days and there is a maximum of four presentations per household per year."
• The Marquee Cap: For their premium "Travel + Leisure Marquee" events, they clamp down even harder: "As a Club Wyndham owner, you are eligible to attend a maximum of two Travel + Leisure Marquee events in a calendar year."
• The WorldMark Rule: For WorldMark specifically, the text notes that anyone who has attended a WorldMark by Wyndham sales presentation within the last 12 months is entirely barred from promotional eligibility.
• Source: Club Wyndham / Wyndham Vacation Packages Terms and Conditions (General Eligibility & Margaritaville Vacation Club clauses).

Terms and Conditions

Terms and Conditions

3. Hilton Grand Vacations (HGV)​

Hilton maintains a standard 6-month to 1-year buffer depending on the specific package, alongside a strict limit of one promotional package per household. Their internal systems cross-reference HGV owner numbers and Hilton Honors account activity. If a member attempts to book an unauthorized "back-to-back" tour at a different property (e.g., booking an owner update in Orlando immediately after doing one in Las Vegas), the software auto-flags the account as non-qualified. "r have participated in a sponsor promotion requiring attendance at a sales presentation: (i) within the last year at the property or properties promoted in this offer, or (ii) within the last six (6) months at any other properties."

Hilton Grand Vacations | Details of Participation

e.hiltongrandvacations.com

I am not shocked that you don't know this is written policy though. I have personally actually said no several times to a Hilton TS rep and then told them I have attended in the last 6 months and showed them the terms and conditions and they told me they can over ride that.

So yeah it is written policy on all the websites. That doesn't mean they follow it, but it is most definitely the actual written policy.

 

[BeeNBeek]

The only process you can use is asking WM/Wyndham to combine them.

It used to be straightforward but now its a mess unless the new credits and existing credits have the same renewal month.

The last combine they made a zillion mistakes. Some were in my favor and some weren't. I feel like I came out about behind but not enough to rock the boat and have them screw it up more and maybe lock my account while they investigated.

If I ever buy more I wasn't to combine they will have the same anniversary as my existing credits.

Thank you very much! I’m thinking of adding more point just to maximize my current Maintenance Fees because as they change the scales we went from top of our MF cutoff to the bottom. Any other items I need yo be aware of before buying more points? Did you have to pay additional processing fees?

 

[JohnPaul]

Absolutely, here are the exact published corporate guidelines for the big 3 and the links where you can read them:​

1. Marriott Vacation Club (MVCI)​

Marriott is highly specific about frequency caps, particularly for virtual or corporate direct sales updates.

• The "One Per Year / 6-Month" Rule: According to Marriott’s official Details of Participation: "individuals are legally ineligible if they have participated in a Marriott, Sheraton, or Westin Vacation Club promotion within the past year, or if they have taken a virtual sales presentation within the last 6 months."
• The Lifetime Cap: For certain regional marketing arms (such as their Asia-Pacific/Tokyo directives), Marriott explicitly explicitly states a hard ceiling: "Those who have previously attended a Marriott Vacation Club sales presentation over 3 times... are not eligible for this offer."
• Source: The Marriott Vacation Clubs Ownership Offers & Details of Participation Legal Disclosures.

Vacation Offers

Vacation Offers

themarriottvacationclubs.marriott.com

2. Wyndham Vacation Resorts (Club Wyndham / WorldMark)​

Wyndham has standard frequency caps baked directly into their promotional terms to stop people from jumping from resort to resort purely for rewards.

• The 90-Day / Annual Cap: Wyndham’s general eligibility states: "You must wait 90 days between presentations, Owners must wait 30 days and there is a maximum of four presentations per household per year."
• The Marquee Cap: For their premium "Travel + Leisure Marquee" events, they clamp down even harder: "As a Club Wyndham owner, you are eligible to attend a maximum of two Travel + Leisure Marquee events in a calendar year."
• The WorldMark Rule: For WorldMark specifically, the text notes that anyone who has attended a WorldMark by Wyndham sales presentation within the last 12 months is entirely barred from promotional eligibility.
• Source: Club Wyndham / Wyndham Vacation Packages Terms and Conditions (General Eligibility & Margaritaville Vacation Club clauses).

Terms and Conditions

Terms and Conditions

3. Hilton Grand Vacations (HGV)​

Hilton maintains a standard 6-month to 1-year buffer depending on the specific package, alongside a strict limit of one promotional package per household. Their internal systems cross-reference HGV owner numbers and Hilton Honors account activity. If a member attempts to book an unauthorized "back-to-back" tour at a different property (e.g., booking an owner update in Orlando immediately after doing one in Las Vegas), the software auto-flags the account as non-qualified. "r have participated in a sponsor promotion requiring attendance at a sales presentation: (i) within the last year at the property or properties promoted in this offer, or (ii) within the last six (6) months at any other properties."

Hilton Grand Vacations | Details of Participation

e.hiltongrandvacations.com

I am not shocked that you don't know this is written policy though. I have personally actually said no several times to a Hilton TS rep and then told them I have attended in the last 6 months and showed them the terms and conditions and they told me they can over ride that.

So yeah it is written policy on all the websites. That doesn't mean they follow it, but it is most definitely the actual written policy.

The policies you provided are for promotional stay packages - not just sales presentations. The only WM rule (heard from bookers themselves) is that you can't do another presentation at the same resort within 14 days.

 

[davidvel]

Absolutely, here are the exact published corporate guidelines for the big 3 and the links where you can read them:​

1. Marriott Vacation Club (MVCI)​

Marriott is highly specific about frequency caps, particularly for virtual or corporate direct sales updates.

• The "One Per Year / 6-Month" Rule: According to Marriott’s official Details of Participation: "individuals are legally ineligible if they have participated in a Marriott, Sheraton, or Westin Vacation Club promotion within the past year, or if they have taken a virtual sales presentation within the last 6 months."
• The Lifetime Cap: For certain regional marketing arms (such as their Asia-Pacific/Tokyo directives), Marriott explicitly explicitly states a hard ceiling: "Those who have previously attended a Marriott Vacation Club sales presentation over 3 times... are not eligible for this offer."
• Source: The Marriott Vacation Clubs Ownership Offers & Details of Participation Legal Disclosures.

Vacation Offers

Vacation Offers

themarriottvacationclubs.marriott.com

2. Wyndham Vacation Resorts (Club Wyndham / WorldMark)​

Wyndham has standard frequency caps baked directly into their promotional terms to stop people from jumping from resort to resort purely for rewards.

• The 90-Day / Annual Cap: Wyndham’s general eligibility states: "You must wait 90 days between presentations, Owners must wait 30 days and there is a maximum of four presentations per household per year."
• The Marquee Cap: For their premium "Travel + Leisure Marquee" events, they clamp down even harder: "As a Club Wyndham owner, you are eligible to attend a maximum of two Travel + Leisure Marquee events in a calendar year."
• The WorldMark Rule: For WorldMark specifically, the text notes that anyone who has attended a WorldMark by Wyndham sales presentation within the last 12 months is entirely barred from promotional eligibility.
• Source: Club Wyndham / Wyndham Vacation Packages Terms and Conditions (General Eligibility & Margaritaville Vacation Club clauses).

Terms and Conditions

Terms and Conditions

3. Hilton Grand Vacations (HGV)​

Hilton maintains a standard 6-month to 1-year buffer depending on the specific package, alongside a strict limit of one promotional package per household. Their internal systems cross-reference HGV owner numbers and Hilton Honors account activity. If a member attempts to book an unauthorized "back-to-back" tour at a different property (e.g., booking an owner update in Orlando immediately after doing one in Las Vegas), the software auto-flags the account as non-qualified. "r have participated in a sponsor promotion requiring attendance at a sales presentation: (i) within the last year at the property or properties promoted in this offer, or (ii) within the last six (6) months at any other properties."

Hilton Grand Vacations | Details of Participation

e.hiltongrandvacations.com

I am not shocked that you don't know this is written policy though. I have personally actually said no several times to a Hilton TS rep and then told them I have attended in the last 6 months and showed them the terms and conditions and they told me they can over ride that.

So yeah it is written policy on all the websites. That doesn't mean they follow it, but it is most definitely the actual written policy.

The link you provided for Marriott is for "Vacation Offers," not standalone sales presentations. So it does not support your contention of a "strict corporate compliance policy."

 

[vidx3m]

So first off all, given that they pretensions are not 90 minutes (In my experience YMMV) and what I get from them works out to like $35-$45 an hour. I am a resort on vacation, I don't want to go to an update and what I get isn't worth it.

Additionally most major developers (Wyndham, Hilton, Marriott, etc.) have strict corporate compliance policy on paper. In theory they enforce rules like: No more than one promotional tour every 6 to 12 months, or a lifetime cap of X tours per property. I don't think in practice they care.

I agree with this approach. In theory, they should be compensating for both spouses time, as they require both to be at these "presentations", but really because you're on vacation they should be offering way more than your regular hourly wages.

So, if you're a professional making $150k/year and your spouse makes a similar amount. Your hourly rate equates to about $65/hour.

At minimum they should be offering a reward of (2x$65)x1.5 = $195, but you've paid to be on your "vacation", they are essentially asking you to give up your premium time for a 90 min meeting. It's like working on weekends (haha), so double time. So next time you're asked to attend, one of these presentation, the minimum should be 2x$195 = $390.

I don't think any of the Vacations Clubs are offering much over $200, trust me they've done the math as well and they know they're getting you for less than you're worth at your regular job. I just don't get why people go to these and accept anything less.

What I'm saying is that if you're convinced that you should give up your time and your spouses time to listen to a pitch that will drive your nuts, you should at least earn a premium for your time. Next time ask for $500!

 

[gravityrules]

I agree with this approach. In theory, they should be compensating for both spouses time, as they require both to be at these "presentations", but really because you're on vacation they should be offering way more than your regular hourly wages.

So, if you're a professional making $150k/year and your spouse makes a similar amount. Your hourly rate equates to about $65/hour.

At minimum they should be offering a reward of (2x$65)x1.5 = $195, but you've paid to be on your "vacation", they are essentially asking you to give up your premium time for a 90 min meeting. It's like working on weekends (haha), so double time. So next time you're asked to attend, one of these presentation, the minimum should be 2x$195 = $390.

I don't think any of the Vacations Clubs are offering much over $200, trust me they've done the math as well and they know they're getting you for less than you're worth at your regular job. I just don't get why people go to these and accept anything less.

What I'm saying is that if you're convinced that you should give up your time and your spouses time to listen to a pitch that will drive your nuts, you should at least earn a premium for your time. Next time ask for $500!

To paraphrase Monty Python, you could be attending TS presentations in your spare time.

 

[easyrider]

We went to an update a couple of days ago. We both recognized the sales guy from elsewhere. He didn't recognize us until I mentioned he parks Hawaiian style. Slowly at first then like a switch being turned on he remembered. It was kind of entertaining. They are trying to sell d8ffernt types of memberships or upgrades. The update lasted about 35 minutes. My wife received a welc9me package , $100 gift card and I received 12 d3vice connections for our guests. Not bad. The connections are worth about $200 and are probably free to t&l.

Bill

 

[greggybud]

I got thrown out once long ago. However I was a frequent flyer doing Oregon coast and central Oregon WM sales pitches pretty often. Their "rule" at least at that time, was no more than 1 every 14 days. Of course that's meaningless. It's all supply and demand...or desperation. I even told one person at Seaside that I had just been to Gleneden and he said "since we have a brand new program we will wave the 14-day rule."

Anyway the sales guy at the check in desk for years would always tell me "don't worry that you are married and your wife won't attend." He just gets money for me attending. And for years that worked. My reward was an AMX card for $150 every time. Back then it paid for my next bonus time stay.

One time I sat down and the saleswoman thought she had recognized me from a prior sales pitch. Probably just 3 or 4 weeks prior. She noticed my wedding ring and excused herself and brought back the big sales guy Bruno. He explained the rules, and kicked me out.

Of course 2 weeks later, I came back with my wife...and screaming kid. (It was easy to get her upset at 3 years old) I don't think my "owner education" lasted longer than 15 minutes.

I gave a nice smile to Bruno the sales guy, and collected my $150 AMX card.

 

[greggybud]

I got thrown out once long ago. However I was a frequent flyer doing Oregon coast and central Oregon WM sales pitches pretty often. Their "rule" at least at that time, was no more than 1 every 14 days. Of course that's meaningless. It's all supply and demand...or desperation. I even told one person at Seaside that I had just been to Gleneden and he said "since we have a brand new program we will wave the 14-day rule."

Anyway the sales guy at the check in desk for years would always tell me "don't worry that you are married and your wife won't attend." He just gets money for me attending. And for years that worked. My reward was an AMX card for $150 every time. Back then it paid for my next bonus time stay.

One time I sat down and the saleswoman thought she had recognized me from a prior sales pitch. Probably just 3 or 4 weeks prior. She noticed my wedding ring and excused herself and brought back the big sales guy Bruno. He explained the rules, and kicked me out.

Of course 2 weeks later, I came back with my wife...and screaming kid. (It was easy to get her upset at 3 years old) I don't think my "owner education" lasted longer than 15 minutes.

I gave a nice smile to Bruno the sales guy, and collected my $150 AMX card.

I should add that shortly after this I think the district manager for Oregon coast properties decided "your jig is up" and they dumped the AMX cards. Then they started the Tango cards which is a bit different and not as convenient, and also seemed to really push both WM promotion points and Wyndham reward points as the main reward.

AMX cards are still given at some other properties, but to my knowledge not in Oregon.