Wyndham is closing a handful of legacy resorts - dedicated chart/tracker located in the first post for this unfolding set of events

[paxsarah]

I don't think the trust owns the inventory directly; I think the inventory is owned by some other entity, and the usage rights are granted to the trust. I could be 100% wrong about that, though.

I don’t have my laptop this weekend that has the unzipped public offering statement, but there’s probably some illuminating language in there.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I don't think the trust owns the inventory directly; I think the inventory is owned by some other entity, and the usage rights are granted to the trust. I could be 100% wrong about that, though.

This is correct, CWA simply sells basically RTU ownerships against the deeds held in the Fairshare trust that actually holds all deeds - not just the CWA deeds. This was debated ad nauseam earlier in this thread.


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[HitchHiker71]

I hadn't thought of that until you mentioned it. If that's the case I would think we'd see a reduction in CWA maintenance fees. I speculated the resorts leaving would at least keep the maintenance fees from going up the for one year the typical twenty some to thirty some cents they gone up for the last 12 years.

I have no idea how the CWA trust is structured. If Wyndham declares a loss on some, and perhaps their own in house legal fees, could any gains on the others be eaten up or even funneled elsewhere? With businesses it's not hard to manipulate numbers to make them show what you want.

A reduction is possible, I’d likely predict a net zero or very low MF increase as opposed to an outright reduction, but only time will tell.


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[paxsarah]

This was debated as nauseam earlier in this thread.

I don’t have my laptop but I thought I had quoted the public offering statement that it was not the Fairshare trust but a different CWA-specific trust.

Edit: here it is

 

[Floridaman76]

I’ve repeatedly said “low owner occupancy” but he apparently doesn’t understand there is a difference in a broad base of owners using their resort for it’s intended purpose, opposed to a few owners running an illegal rental business.

Nobody has defined what "lower owner occupancy" means.
- Does it mean people who own deeded there don't stay there?
- Does it mean that there's an "overly high" percentage of occupants staying there on GC's?
- Does it mean a cabal of 132 rogue owners running illegal AirBnB's was discovered and MUST BE CRUSHED! AT ALL COSTS!!!?!!!

Wyndham saying there is "low owner occupancy" means nothing because it doesn't matter, as long as there is butts in seats so to speak. If the place was 3/4 empty the entire year, sure, get rid of it maybe. That's CLEARLY not the case with a few of these resorts, dare I say MOST of them.

Since when is that even a requirement? As long as the resort is solvent, and they ALL are, this should be a non issue.

I will say that Wyndham probabaly contributed to this problem by taking back deeds or assuming them through foreclosure from the HOA's. If they choose to rent them for dirt cheap via EH or Last Call, that's their issue.

I own ALL of my points at National Harbor over several different retail and resale contracts. I've stayed there exactly twice... am I contributing to "low owner occupancy"? Maybe I am.

Your entire premise of supporting Wyndham and defending renters is ridiculous. Clearly you have some skin in that game...

 

[HitchHiker71]

I don’t have my laptop but I thought I had quoted the public offering statement that it was not the Fairshare trust but a different CWA-specific trust.

Edit: here it is
View attachment 115930

I looked into this when it was initially posted. My understanding is that this statement is not stating where the deeds are actually held. This statement is indicating the name of the trust itself that holds the perpetual RTU based Ownerships based upon the Club Instruments. So that named trust is the actual name of the CWA trust itself.

The current member directory states the following:

Club Wyndham Access Vacation Ownership Plan

Club Wyndham Access is a timeshare plan in which certain inventory at multiple resorts is deeded fee simple, without financial encumbrances to First American Trust, a Federal Savings Bank, as trustee for the PTVO Owners Association, Inc. ("Association"), the property owners association for Club Wyndham Access owners. The Association is the beneficiary of the trust.

I will make inquiries to get clarity on this point.


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[Rolltydr]

You really need to work on reading comprehension. I have never, repeat (and CAPS LOCK to help you understand) NEVER, defended renters. I have always been very supportive of Wyndham’s efforts to shut down renters.

Low owner occupancy means that Wyndham owners who purchased Wyndham contracts in order to stay at Wyndham properties, are no longer staying at BB, and some other resorts, in large enough numbers to sustain those resorts, and Wyndham’s management of them. Instead, and in some cases,
rogue owners are renting the units out to non-owners and that is detrimental to Wyndham’s business. I do not know, and neither do you, what that means to Wyndham’s financial bottom line, but they have been shutting down mega renters for several years now, so I think we can safely assume they are not good for Wyndham’s business.

Thanks for the laughs!

 

[CO skier]

Nobody has defined what "lower owner occupancy" means.

Wyndham has defined what "low owner occupancy" means. That is the only definition that matters.

... and we circle back to post #779.

Wyndham is closing a handful of legacy resorts - dedicated chart/tracker located in the first post for this unfolding set of events

I suspect that CWA MFs will either be stable or lower once all of the sell-off of legacy resorts is done. We're actually a bit encouraged that Club Wyn is doing this and being proactive. :unsure: We accept that there may be some cost. :( Just hoping it doesn't hurt :cautious: too mumuch. I...

tugbbs.com

 

[CO skier]

My understanding is that this statement is not stating where the deeds are actually held.

It seems clear to me that Wyndham Vacation Resorts, Inc. owns the deeds ("Real Property Interests") in the CWA trust.

 

[Jan M.]

In one of the Facebook groups it was brought up that Patriot’s Place is saying they're closing on 12/27, not 12/31. I saw that but didn't really think about until someone brought it to my attention in their reply to me on my post.

I wonder if the manger figured too many of the remaining employees would call off last minute to be able have the whole New Year's week or just the longer weekend off. If someone had a new job lined up to start on Monday, January 5th, they might say why not call off to give themself that nice stretch of time off before they start their new job. Those last few days call offs will undoubtedly happen and the resort could/would be left in a bind.

Another reason could be that they can't just close the doors and walk away by 11:59pm on the 31st. I doubt it's as simple as it sounds There will still be a number of things that need done after the owners and guests check out. More than we probably realize. Not just things maintenance would take care of or cleaning the units. As we've discussed in this thread, there are financial, tax, employee benefits, etc. that come into play if employees work at all into the next calendar year.

At a resort like Star Island that isn't completely Wyndham or managed by them, neither of those things would be a concern. Same with Ocean Ridge because it's only the two sections.

If Patriot’s Place is really closing on the 27th, and it does make sense, other resorts might also move their last day up.

 

[northovr]

Proxies are in the mail to vote for the bankruptcy at Patriots Place.

I got mine
Daniel

 

[CO skier]

If Patriot’s Place is really closing on the 27th, and it does make sense, other resorts might also move their last day up.

That would make sense since all the resorts are "weeks" based deeds, and December 26 & 27 is the last weekend of the year.

 

[Arimaas]

We won't hear anything from Wyndham until the HOA BOD votes are complete at the very least, and likely not until the larger HOA member votes have transpired and the path forward has been determined. Until then, what would everyone like to hear beyond what Wyndham has already communicated? Be specific. Wyndham has already communicated what they have direct control over, which is that Wyndham itself plans to remove these resorts from Club Wyndham effective 12/31/2025, and that the resort disposition processes are in progress via the legally required steps that take place, and can only take place, at the resort HOA level. Seriously, what would you all like to have Wyndham explicitly tell you, given the fact that until the HOA BODs determine the path forward, and then hold actual member votes, nothing is written in stone. I get the frustration, I really do, but at the same time, until the actual HOA votes transpire, I'm not sure what else can legally be communicated?

I am pretty far behind (7 pages) on this post so it may be answered further down, but I don't think Wyndahm communicated anything since this broke. Wyndahm has not given am officail list of resorts that are closing, or what will happen. Last I checked, they had some half baked press release saying "like an old plane, we are getting rid of some old resorts". That's it. I really appreciate your insight here, and your time involved being a TUG moderator, but I don't know wjy you keep making excuses for Wyndahm. I don't think they are legally barred from communicating their plans and how that impacts reservations, so I don't know why they get this cop out. Same as making excuse for their sales tactics. I'm sorry, but everyone in a C suite in that corporation is responsible for that, I don't care if they work in marketing, sales, or legal.

 

[Arimaas]

Put another way, given we know Wyndham can easily block off inventory in the current system, does anyone here really think that Wyndham wouldn't do so unless their lawyers explicitly indicate otherwise? That's my thinking, and really not just my thinking, it's what I've come to understand from Wyndham corporate. Again, this is not as simple as many here on TUG want to believe. I get it, the frustration, but I also know without a shadow of a doubt that lawyers could care less about PR, they care about following the law, period, end of story. Full stop.

Ok, so how about a "book at your own risk" warning? Is it "not legal" to have a pop up that says Wyndham may stop managing a resort after 12/31 and any reservations for after that date are subject to cancelation pending the outcome of legal proceedings? If they wanted to go about doing this the right way, there would be a legal way for the lawyer to figure out how to do it. Again, just my 2 cents, but I think, for whatever reason. they are using the "legal" excuse as a cop out.

 

[CO skier]

I could also ask you the same question, point to where the legal standpoint is supported that says Wyndham must continue to accept reservations into 2026 for club bookings.

Not Hitchhiker71, but here are the relevant Wyndham's obligations under the Fairshare Trust agreement. As long as these properties are part of Club Wyndham, owners may book reservations up to 13 months in advance, according to the Club Directory.

"ARTICLE XI
TRUST PROPERTY RESERVATIONS
11.03 Reservations. The rules, regulations and guidelines concerning reservations and exchanges shall be set forth in the Directory."

Then from the Directory

 

[Roger830]

In one of the Facebook groups it was brought up that Patriot’s Place is saying they're closing on 12/27, not 12/31. I saw that but didn't really think about until someone brought it to my attention in their reply to me on my post.

If Patriot’s Place is really closing on the 27th, and it does make sense, other resorts might also move their last day up.

It's likely that Saturday 12/27 is the last check-in date for fixed week owners if there are any left. They wouldn't be able to complete their 7 day week, so apparently just cancel week 52 and possibly swap for an earlier date.

 

[Jan M.]

Is Patriot’s Place like Fairfield Glade and Star Island where Wyndham only has partial presence?

 

[chapjim]

They told me that. I am sure they lied when they said they Crestview section of shawnee was staying open and if I wanted to book there I needed to buy 500,000 CWA points for $158,000. I own over 1.1 million resell points that I may have paid $3,000 or so.

Heckuva deal!

 

[Floridaman76]

Yes


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Uh, you sure about that? I don't think that's accurate. There was an unrelated hotel next to the property that was closed, the property sold to a developer and condos built there, unrelated to PP, but i'm pretty sure all the PP units are owned by Wyndham.

 

[comicbookman]

Uh, you sure about that? I don't think that's accurate. There was an unrelated hotel next to the property that was closed, the property sold to a developer and condos built there, unrelated to PP, but i'm pretty sure all the PP units are owned by Wyndham.

The condos are seperately owned and have nothing to do with the timeshare property other than a shared entrance road.

 

[Jan M.]

@Richelle is also front and center on many of those same posts in support - and she is on the same bi-weekly meetings with Wyndham corporate that I’m on asking questions and seeking answers to questions posted on the FB groups and here on TUG. We don’t always get the answers we want, or that we can share publicly, but we try our best to represent the concerns of impacted owners and obtain better information that we can circulate indirectly, however the fact that none of us work for Wyndham does by definition mean anything we share is inherently unofficial and will likely always be taken with a grain of salt, and I cannot blame anyone for doing so really. I would likely do the same thing as a born skeptic type.


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Nothing wrong with being skeptical. It can serve a purpose. Unlike some people, it's obvious that you're too intelligent to remain skeptical when presented with good information, facts, evidence, etc. Not someone who would stick their head in the sand and refuse to hear or believe anything that doesn't fit their views or narrative.

When we first heard about the closings I think everyone was in a state of shocked disbelief. How could we not be? Some moved to believing sooner than others. However, I think it's safe to say that for all of us, even now, some degree of shock still remains.

This is very unsettling, scary, concerning, upsetting, etc. for owners. Particularly for VIP owners who've spent a lot of money for what they have. It doesn't help that Wyndham hasn't, and understandably to some of us, can't give their members an explanation and details.

I jokingly said it's raining enough that the ark is starting to float. There's always going to be some people remaining skeptical, in denial, until the water's up to their chin, there's no other ground to go to that's higher than where they're standing, and the ark is sailing out of sight.

In light of what Richelle posted in the Facebook group, and I'm sure you're going to add to FAQ post, about there being a timeframe to accept the exchange for CWA points, it's now even more imperative to reach more owners about what's happening. The deniers and let's wait people are doing a major disservice to those they influence.

 

[makersforme]

I received an email yesterday from Wyndham about Fairfield Bay. Attached is a ballot regarding Chapter 11 bankruptcy.


We will be signing and hoping this gets settled soon.

Well Chuckles, that was petty. Didn't think I had to spell it out.
We did not expect to be contacted until the end of the year or first part of 2026.

I own at Fairfield Bay as well and as of Monday morning have received no emails from Wyndham

 

[HitchHiker71]

Uh, you sure about that? I don't think that's accurate. There was an unrelated hotel next to the property that was closed, the property sold to a developer and condos built there, unrelated to PP, but i'm pretty sure all the PP units are owned by Wyndham.

My bad, I was under the impression there were other similar units there built and sold as condos. Post deleted. That's what I get for replying to a thread while sitting at the beach in vacation mode LOL.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I am pretty far behind (7 pages) on this post so it may be answered further down, but I don't think Wyndahm communicated anything since this broke. Wyndahm has not given am officail list of resorts that are closing, or what will happen. Last I checked, they had some half baked press release saying "like an old plane, we are getting rid of some old resorts". That's it. I really appreciate your insight here, and your time involved being a TUG moderator, but I don't know wjy you keep making excuses for Wyndahm. I don't think they are legally barred from communicating their plans and how that impacts reservations, so I don't know why they get this cop out. Same as making excuse for their sales tactics. I'm sorry, but everyone in a C suite in that corporation is responsible for that, I don't care if they work in marketing, sales, or legal.

I am not making excuses for Wyndham - I am telling everyone what Wyndham corporate is telling me. Period. Full stop. You can disbelieve it if you like, that is your and anyone else's prerogative to do so. I'm not going to stop communicating what is being relayed to @Richelle and I, for you or anyone else, just to be clear. I've also agreed that a communication plan is lacking. Keep in mind I'm dealing directly with Wyndham's PR director. The same PR director that originally wanted to include the list of resorts, but was denied by Wyndham's legal representation. That could be one of two reasons, or both. One, there's a law (hence a legal reason) preventing such inclusion. Two, there's a legal risk in including the resorts prematurely for some reason. You keep wanting to believe what you want to believe, and again that's fine. I'm done with this conversation, I will no longer be engaging with any of these types of posts moving forward.

I've also never made excuses for sales and marketing, I believe many here would indicate I've repeatedly indicated that the ELT is complicit in the deceptive sales practices and simply utilizes cognitive dissonance and plausible deniability with respect to this topic.

 

[dioxide45]

I am actually doubting that Wyndham will communicate anything (via email) to the entire membership when the properties finally close. Why would they? What benefit would it provide? They will certainly have to notify those with impacted reservations. For the properties that are closing, the HOA will have already been communicating to the owners. Wyndham will then communicate with those same owners about a CWA swap. Outside of that, should we really expect them to send out an email to all members in Club Wyndham?