[Ugh] Another Honors Devaluation up to 200k

[CalGalTraveler]

One of the very knowledgeable posters in one of the blogs said essentially the same thing. His claim, and I'm inclined to agree, is that this will be the same for elites as it always has - availability-based. They have always tried to monetize this and now they're just clarifying. But he expected no changes. It might have been on this LL post where I saw his comments.

Still inferior to both Hyatt and Marriott where it is guaranteed, but maybe no real loss.

Cheers.

Marriott and Ritz is not guaranteed. Elite but have been turned down multiple times.

 

[brp]

Marriott and Ritz is not guaranteed. Elite but have been turned down multiple times.

I think it's not guaranteed at Ritz. But it is listed as "guaranteed" for most other Marriott brands, I believe. Not sure of the justification for turning this down.

But Hyatt is far and away our primary, and they don't play this game, fortunately.

cheers.

 

[mountainboy]

Per WSJ article today:

'Cardholders earned over $40 billion in rewards in 2022, yet more than $33 billion went unclaimed—a 40% jump since before the pandemic.
The average account sat on $150 in unused perks'.

(& likely many, many more with the useless $500 'Edit hotel credit with CSR, with min 2 night stay & rates already inflated by extra 250/nt in the 'Edit' rates;
+ similarly useless Doordash (10+10+5 + DashPass 120)+ 370 useless $/yr
+ 10/mo Lyft (which I can't use unlike Uber eats/Amex Platinum)
+ many similar useless credits.

I had just closed my CIBP which I regret (as it was just 95 AF, but added nothing to my CSR at the time, so had closed)

Will likely downgrade to CSP from CSR, to keep earning/using URs but out of CSR, for me...

 

[WaikikiFirst]

Cardholders earned over $40 billion in rewards in 2022, yet more than $33 billion went unclaimed—a 40% jump since before the pandemic

LOL. I'm not sure I would have caught the counting of useless "rewards" at full face value in that. LOL. As for 40% jump, well, the cards have higher annual fees, laughinly "offset" by more "perks" with marginal value. The marketing of stuff with marginal value at some hyped-up face-value is a pandemic of its own.

If you wouldn't PAY face value for it, That Ain't the Value.

 

[brp]

LOL. I'm not sure I would have caught the counting of useless "rewards" at full face value in that. LOL. As for 40% jump, well, the cards have higher annual fees, laughinly "offset" by more "perks" with marginal value. The marketing of stuff with marginal value at some hyped-up face-value is a pandemic of its own.

If you wouldn't PAY face value for it, That Ain't the Value.

Yup. One has to look at the card and value the things that one would actually use (or might use as that can still have a value) and then weigh against the cost. Some things, like lounge access (the one Sapphire Lounge we've been to is fabulous) are harder to quantify, so that's personal.

Cheers.

 

[jp10558]

LOL. I'm not sure I would have caught the counting of useless "rewards" at full face value in that. LOL. As for 40% jump, well, the cards have higher annual fees, laughinly "offset" by more "perks" with marginal value. The marketing of stuff with marginal value at some hyped-up face-value is a pandemic of its own.

If you wouldn't PAY face value for it, That Ain't the Value.

The main reason I went to aspire is because $400 of the $550 AF is statement credits on paying my HGVC MFs each year. Then adding the $200 a year United Travel Bank will hopefully be usable - and in that case it's full value credits there. But yes you do need to see what they offer that you can actually use. - I'm not sure how to value stuff like Nationwide Emerald thing which gets me free additional drivers and free upgrades to full size...

 

[brp]

I'm not sure how to value stuff like Nationwide Emerald thing which gets me free additional drivers and free upgrades to full size...

Well, as a comparison, the airline status I get each year gets me Avis President's Club. I see no actual value there. First, I don't want a size upgrade. I choose economy on purpose- easier to park less gas. I don't want a bigger car. And, when I call the President's line, anything beyond very basic stuff that I can do myself has to go to the CS people - same line as everyone else. Maybe I get through more quickly. Otherwise, no benefit. It comes for free as American Airlines Executive Platinum, so no cost. Not sure how Nationwide Emerald compares, of course, but this is one similar datapoint.

Cheers.

 

[letsgobobby]

the Flyertalk thread on the CSR changes has evolved in an interesting way. With the release of the Points Boost feature there appear to be a very large number of hotels in the Edit program as well as many which qualify for 1.5-2x redemption, from mid range (Hampton) to ultra-luxe (Four Seasons). If I can redeem my points for reasonable hotel stays at 1.5-2x and get $250 credit twice a year this card is a no brainer to keep for us. in fact we are on a two night stay right now through the Edit using our Chase points and it is very nice.

we are likely to make use of the dining credit. the travel credit stays. so that's $1100 in easy to use credit for $795 AF. we use the Sapphire and Escape lounges every couple months (with 2 -3 guests) and rent a car every month (primary car insurance).

all in all it's looking more hopeful than first blush.

 

[1Kflyerguy]

LOL. I'm not sure I would have caught the counting of useless "rewards" at full face value in that. LOL. As for the 40% jump, well, the cards have higher annual fees, laughingly "offset" by more "perks" with marginal value. The marketing of stuff with marginal value at some hyped-up face value is a pandemic of its own.

If you wouldn't PAY face value for it, That Ain't the Value.

I certainly assign my own value to the various credits/rebates.. I am guessing the figures reported in the article from CFB are probably originally reported out by the credit card companies themselves. They are almost certainly the only ones that know how many people use the DoorDash credits, etc.. They don't have any way or incentive to report some partial value for the credits...

There has been enough changes in the past few months that I need to review all my credit cards to see if they still make sense. I think the CSR still makes sense for us, but I need to go through all the credits and options to see. We do make cash stays at luxury hotels periodically, so maybe the Edit will work out, but it's also another place to check for prices and options... Part of the challenge becomes there are more and more options and places to price shop. Cash, Points, Amex Travel, Chase travel.. etc...

 

[mountainboy]

Cross posting here also (along with a Marriott forum):

Wonder if any of you have looked into (or any experiences with) BoA PRE (Platinum Rewards Elite); 2.625% CB on everything; 3.25% on travel, with BoA Platinum Honors (100k; Merrill investments count, with free ETF/stock trading & a nice TAA robo, reasonably priced, etc): $100, for 4 PP memberships (can be anyone), WITH restaurant access (which most incl CSR have long given up), with unlimited guests (will still count on 2 but better than none on C1 VX soon).

+ (+ std Visa Infinite fare like primary car rental insurance like CSR etc)

Thinking about it, if I get too tired of the couponification of the premium card market (CSR, Amex Platty)...

Curious of any DPs/folks experiences?

(Obviously a no-no card, IF not banking with BoA)...

TY!

 

[brp]

the Flyertalk thread on the CSR changes has evolved in an interesting way. With the release of the Points Boost feature there appear to be a very large number of hotels in the Edit program as well as many which qualify for 1.5-2x redemption, from mid range (Hampton) to ultra-luxe (Four Seasons). If I can redeem my points for reasonable hotel stays at 1.5-2x and get $250 credit twice a year this card is a no brainer to keep for us. in fact we are on a two night stay right now through the Edit using our Chase points and it is very nice.

I think folks who use the portal for redemptions can make this work. We convert all points to Hyatt (where we get at least 1.4 cents each), so the portal is useless in this way. And I'd never book a cash trip through them versus the hotel/carrier as I want to deal direct if things go wrong. Also, there are ambiguities as to which things count for status earning and benefits. So, the 8X is nice for those who can use it, but not for us. Of course, the portal has never been a thing for us, so changes there are immaterial.

Cheers.

 

[letsgobobby]

I think folks who use the portal for redemptions can make this work. We convert all points to Hyatt (where we get at least 1.4 cents each), so the portal is useless in this way. And I'd never book a cash trip through them versus the hotel/carrier as I want to deal direct if things go wrong. Also, there are ambiguities as to which things count for status earning and benefits. So, the 8X is nice for those who can use it, but not for us. Of course, the portal has never been a thing for us, so changes there are immaterial.

Cheers.

if you always transfer then you've seen no devaluation in your points.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

You got BOA, CSR, CV1, Hyatt, Marriott, Ritz etc in my HGVC/HHonors. What a predicament.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

I went to aspire is because $400 of the $550 AF is statement credits on paying my HGVC MFs each year. Then adding the $200 a year United Travel Bank

Yes, those + the HH pts you get on your MFs make it a no-brainer. I think some of these other cards rely on people being blinded by the next shiny thing, not sticking to plain $s & $0.01s, and doing zero-based calcs. But if you have HGVC MFs, Aspire is a no-brainer & the more HGVC MFs you have the more it is. I'm on the edge of getting another Aspire for us.

 

[brp]

Yes, those + the HH pts you get on your MFs make it a no-brainer. I think some of these other cards rely on people being blinded by the next shiny thing, not sticking to plain $s & $0.01s, and doing zero-based calcs. But if you have HGVC MFs, Aspire is a no-brainer & the more HGVC MFs you have the more it is. I'm on the edge of getting another Aspire for us.

We have two and that works well for us. Because we rarely stay at Hilton, the 2 FNCs are sufficient. And, yeah, we could get even more value with airlines GCs and paying MFs, but it reaches the point where an additional $50 or $100 of "profit" is not worth the effort. One each is good. Neither of use use this for anything by MFs, the occasional Hilton stay incidental and the quarterly GC purchase.

Cheers.

 

[mountainboy]

I think folks who use the portal for redemptions can make this work. We convert all points to Hyatt (where we get at least 1.4 cents each), so the portal is useless in this way. And I'd never book a cash trip through them versus the hotel/carrier as I want to deal direct if things go wrong. Also, there are ambiguities as to which things count for status earning and benefits. So, the 8X is nice for those who can use it, but not for us. Of course, the portal has never been a thing for us, so changes there are immaterial.

Cheers.

Ditto here (re Chase UR to Hyatt)

 

[CalGalTraveler]

if you always transfer then you've seen no devaluation in your points.

Good point. I also read a strategy to put all the grandfathered 1.5x in the CSR account for portal and then apply SUB for a CSP and use post grandfathered points for transferring to United and Hyatt. You can then determine the best alternative portal or transfer.

 

[Zenichiro]

Getting back on topic—I want to point out that while Hilton’s recent devaluation isn’t great, it’s also not as bad as it looks when you compare it to other programs, like Hyatt.

I’m not here to defend Hilton. I’m a Hyatt Globalist and really enjoy the program. But let’s be honest—every loyalty program has trade-offs. When you step back and compare Hilton Honors to Hyatt’s award chart in terms of actual value, things get interesting.

The usual value estimates still hold true:
1 Hyatt point ≈ $0.017
3 Hilton points ≈ $0.015
So roughly, 3 Hilton points equal 1 Hyatt point in value.

Now look at how that plays out: Hilton’s high-end properties (like Waldorf Astoria, LXR, Conrad) usually top out around 100,000 points per night for standard awards. Yes, some outliers push 150k–180k, but those aren’t the norm.

Meanwhile, Hyatt’s top categories reach 45,000 points per night—or up to 58,000 for all-inclusives during peak. To match that value using Hilton points, you’d be spending 153,000 to nearly 200,000 points. That’s a serious difference.

The math doesn’t lie—Hilton is often equal or better in terms of raw redemption value. They are easier to earn and I’d rather keep my Chase points for flights personally.

Here’s how the Hyatt 2025 award chart breaks down when converted to Hilton-equivalent points using those same value assumptions:


Category 1
• Off-Peak: 3,500 Hyatt = $59.50 = 11,900 Hilton
• Standard: 5,000 Hyatt = $85.00 = 17,000 Hilton
• Peak: 6,500 Hyatt = $110.50 = 22,100 Hilton

Category 2
• Off-Peak: 6,500 Hyatt = $110.50 = 22,100 Hilton
• Standard: 8,000 Hyatt = $136.00 = 27,200 Hilton
• Peak: 9,500 Hyatt = $161.50 = 32,300 Hilton

Category 3
• Off-Peak: 9,000 Hyatt = $153.00 = 30,600 Hilton
• Standard: 12,000 Hyatt = $204.00 = 40,800 Hilton
• Peak: 15,000 Hyatt = $255.00 = 51,000 Hilton

Category 4
• Off-Peak: 12,000 Hyatt = $204.00 = 40,800 Hilton
• Standard: 15,000 Hyatt = $255.00 = 51,000 Hilton
• Peak: 18,000 Hyatt = $306.00 = 61,200 Hilton

Category 5
• Off-Peak: 17,000 Hyatt = $289.00 = 57,800 Hilton
• Standard: 20,000 Hyatt = $340.00 = 68,000 Hilton
• Peak: 23,000 Hyatt = $391.00 = 78,200 Hilton

Category 6
• Off-Peak: 21,000 Hyatt = $357.00 = 71,400 Hilton
• Standard: 25,000 Hyatt = $425.00 = 85,000 Hilton
• Peak: 29,000 Hyatt = $493.00 = 98,600 Hilton

Category 7
• Off-Peak: 25,000 Hyatt = $425.00 = 85,000 Hilton
• Standard: 30,000 Hyatt = $510.00 = 102,000 Hilton
• Peak: 35,000 Hyatt = $595.00 = 119,000 Hilton

Category 8
• Off-Peak: 35,000 Hyatt = $595.00 = 119,000 Hilton
• Standard: 40,000 Hyatt = $680.00 = 136,000 Hilton
• Peak: 45,000 Hyatt = $765.00 = 153,000 Hilton

⸻

All-Inclusive Categories A–F (Standard Rooms Only)

Category A
• Off-Peak: 12,000 Hyatt = $204.00 = 40,800 Hilton
• Standard: 15,000 Hyatt = $255.00 = 51,000 Hilton
• Peak: 18,000 Hyatt = $306.00 = 61,200 Hilton

Category B
• Off-Peak: 17,000 Hyatt = $289.00 = 57,800 Hilton
• Standard: 20,000 Hyatt = $340.00 = 68,000 Hilton
• Peak: 23,000 Hyatt = $391.00 = 78,200 Hilton

Category C
• Off-Peak: 21,000 Hyatt = $357.00 = 71,400 Hilton
• Standard: 25,000 Hyatt = $425.00 = 85,000 Hilton
• Peak: 29,000 Hyatt = $493.00 = 98,600 Hilton

Category D
• Off-Peak: 25,000 Hyatt = $425.00 = 85,000 Hilton
• Standard: 30,000 Hyatt = $510.00 = 102,000 Hilton
• Peak: 35,000 Hyatt = $595.00 = 119,000 Hilton

Category E
• Off-Peak: 35,000 Hyatt = $595.00 = 119,000 Hilton
• Standard: 40,000 Hyatt = $680.00 = 136,000 Hilton
• Peak: 45,000 Hyatt = $765.00 = 153,000 Hilton

Category F
• Off-Peak: 42,000 Hyatt = $714.00 = 142,800 Hilton
• Standard: 50,000 Hyatt = $850.00 = 170,000 Hilton
• Peak: 58,000 Hyatt = $986.00 = 197,200 Hilton

 

[brp]

Now look at how that plays out: Hilton’s high-end properties (like Waldorf Astoria, LXR, Conrad) usually top out around 100,000 points per night for standard awards. Yes, some outliers push 150k–180k, but those aren’t the norm.

Meanwhile, Hyatt’s top categories reach 45,000 points per night—or up to 58,000 for all-inclusives during peak. To match that value using Hilton points, you’d be spending 153,000 to nearly 200,000 points. That’s a serious difference.

This is a really good analysis. Thanks for doing this. The place where I think Hyatt wins is the mid-tier (Cat. 4-5) where we spend most of our visits. We can get far more than the value list for these places and I don't generally see equivalent Hilton properties at the corresponding 3X point value. Also, one has to factor in the improved experience at Hyatt top tier versus Hilton.

As a very recent example, we stayed at a Hyatt Regency on points. As Globalist, we saved $78 in parking and $184 in breakfast as these were free. So that adds up to $262 additional. To be fair, at that breakfast price we'd not actually have paid for the hotel breakfast and gone for a walk. But, let's say that we would have spent $35-$40. So, $75 for both days. With the parking, that's still a $153 add to the point value for Hyatt. And that doesn't include the suite upgrade that I was able to request the day before.

But, yes, devaluation in all programs. Hilton, though, has had benefits devaluation in addition to points. Not yet at Hyatt.

Cheers.

 

[jp10558]

The math doesn’t lie—Hilton is often equal or better in terms of raw redemption value. They are easier to earn and I’d rather keep my Chase points for flights personally.

Here’s how the Hyatt 2025 award chart breaks down when converted to Hilton-equivalent points using those same value assumptions:

Although it's also important to realize that by that math, Hilton doesn't really have any Category 1 options that I've ever seen. Category 2 are often Hamptons that are in saturated areas but not in the part of the area you'd want to go to, and sometimes just off interstates. So for many people I would guess see Category 4 as the level "decent rates" and Category 5 for many many locations. IDK how desirably Hyatt Category 1-3 are compared to any Hiltons though...

 

[jp10558]

This is a really good analysis. Thanks for doing this. The place where I think Hyatt wins is the mid-tier (Cat. 4-5) where we spend most of our visits. We can get far more than the value list for these places and I don't generally see equivalent Hilton properties at the corresponding 3X point value.

I don't generally see Hyatt at all which was a deciding factor back in the day.

But, yes, devaluation in all programs. Hilton, though, has had benefits devaluation in addition to points. Not yet at Hyatt.

I'm not sure Hilton ever gave free parking. I recall paying that back in 2009 when I first had points to redeem from HHonors. The breakfast thing became kinda irrelevant as many many locations were giving free breakfast to everyone - especially Hamptons. TBH The last real Hilton I stayed at the food credit was actually way more usable for me for dinners which we often wanted as we were back at the hotel and tired out but needed food, whereas we always struggle to get up and going in time for the breakfasts, and because we're going out and about anyway often prefer to get to a local restaurant for brunch/lunch anyway. I'm not sure it's an obvious devaluation - more like giving options for night owls in addition to the morning people.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

every time I see this title I think "Why can't I get her to plan a separate vaca all on HH Pts to use them up?"
We're going to Europe for 2 wks soon, and not using a single HH pt. She said Hilton just doesn't have anything in Europe that makes sense. I know it depends on exact location, but where have people used HH Pts in Europe?
Oh, and if I book a Hilton All-In place with HH Pts, do the quoted Pts needed cover the All-In charge also? (there is one in Mexico, but I can't remember which town)

 

[letsgobobby]

every time I see this title I think "Why can't I get her to plan a separate vaca all on HH Pts to use them up?"
We're going to Europe for 2 wks soon, and not using a single HH pt. She said Hilton just doesn't have anything in Europe that makes sense. I know it depends on exact location, but where have people used HH Pts in Europe?
Oh, and if I book a Hilton All-In place with HH Pts, do the quoted Pts needed cover the All-In charge also? (there is one in Mexico, but I can't remember which town)

Double tree Amsterdam has an excellent executive lounge and was a great base for five days

 

[Zenichiro]

every time I see this title I think "Why can't I get her to plan a separate vaca all on HH Pts to use them up?"
We're going to Europe for 2 wks soon, and not using a single HH pt. She said Hilton just doesn't have anything in Europe that makes sense. I know it depends on exact location, but where have people used HH Pts in Europe?
Oh, and if I book a Hilton All-In place with HH Pts, do the quoted Pts needed cover the All-In charge also? (there is one in Mexico, but I can't remember which town)

The tricky thing in Europe is that most regular hotel rewards only cover rooms for two or three people, which makes it hard for families. You often have to choose between booking two separate rooms or upgrading to a suite.

It’s not just a Hilton problem either. Oddly, the lower and mid-range options like Hilton Garden Inn and DoubleTree often allow four people in a standard room, while the higher-end places like Hilton, Conrad, and Waldorf Astoria usually don’t.

 

[Zenichiro]

Although it's also important to realize that by that math, Hilton doesn't really have any Category 1 options that I've ever seen. Category 2 are often Hamptons that are in saturated areas but not in the part of the area you'd want to go to, and sometimes just off interstates. So for many people I would guess see Category 4 as the level "decent rates" and Category 5 for many many locations. IDK how desirably Hyatt Category 1-3 are compared to any Hiltons though...

My wife really doesn’t like Hyatt. I only have Globalist status because my work uses it as the preferred option in Concur. That said, we’ve stayed at a bunch of Category 1-4 properties, usually just for a quick overnight before a flight. Most of them haven’t been great, and now whenever I say “just one night at a Hyatt, it’s free,” she immediately dreads it.

The last one in Chicago Regency my kids still comment on the MJ smoke in the hallways. Of course, this can occur anywhere but it just adds to the fire …

Should also mention that Park Hyatt Chicago is not on par with WA Chicago but it is nice.

GH Kauai was very nice but I think they consider that the flagship.