CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[TravelTime]

I won't pay anything to enroll our Westin Ka'anapali units. We bought them to use them. Nothing is as good at Marriott as those two weeks.

WKOVRN 2BR OF is worth 8325 destination points. That is a huge points generator and efficient with MFs. I own EOY and pay about $3200 for one week ($1600 EOY). With it worth 8325 DPs, that comes out to $0.38 vs DP cost of about $0.65 in MFs. But what matters to me is I prefer MVC over Vistana’s program for several reasons. I also like that with 8325 DPs, I can get many more weeks at any MVC/Vistana resort with (hopefully) the 13 month booking window. Okay, this is just me. I can see why if someone’s Vistana week is not worth many DPs, then the Vistana program is better.

 

[kozykritter]

Okay I am getting confused by all these posts. LOL

I think we all are at this point! Marriott, please put us out of our misery and give us the details already. Come on. I said please

 

[CPNY]

I think you are right. I used to think they would allow mandatory SO week owners to just pay a fee but now I suspect they will want folks to buy some DPs to be part of the new program. That is what they require for Marriott resale owners so why would they require something different for Vistana resale owners?

I think they would have enough developer purchased owners, retro resale, plus all of the unsold inventory to fund DC exchange when the program is rolled out. Plus this allows future sales to those resale owners like me who can’t play in the sandbox. I’ll be super happy if my mandatory resales get to have free interval exchanges and no banking fees with new club dues even if I can’t elect to convert to the DC Exchange. I’d also love to see combined interval preference across all brands! No more preference or priority but a truly combined priority for all.

 

[DanCali]

I think they would have enough developer purchased owners, retro resale, plus all of the unsold inventory to fund DC exchange when the program is rolled out. Plus this allows future sales to those resale owners like me who can’t play in the sandbox. I’ll be super happy if my mandatory resales get to have free interval exchanges and no banking fees with new club dues even if I can’t elect to convert to the DC Exchange. I’d also love to see combined interval preference across all brands! No more preference or priority but a truly combined priority for all.

Generally, the way it works right now in MVC is that if you have weeks that don't play in the Points Exchange, they don't benefit from anything.

For example, my unenrolled resale weeks need to be in a separate II account, not in the MVC corporate one. They are also subject to paying a $40 reservation cancelation fee outside the 60-day window (enrolled weeks pay no cancel fees whether used as weeks or points). Enrolled and unenrolled weeks are like two separate universes. They may make things simpler with II exchanges, as you suggest, but there is no indication from the past that it will happen.

 

[CPNY]

Generally, the way it works right now in MVC is that if you have weeks that don't play in the Points Exchange, they don't benefit from anything.

For example, my unenrolled resale weeks need to be in a separate II account, not in the MVC corporate one. They are also subject to paying a $40 reservation cancelation fee outside the 60-day window (enrolled weeks pay no cancel fees whether used as weeks or points). Enrolled and unenrolled weeks are like two separate universes. They may make things simpler with II exchanges, as you suggest, but there is no indication from the past that it will happen.

Right, but mandatory resale owners get a corp interval account. So would those units (if paying the new club dues) be eligible for the interval benefits coming with the new club dues? That’s a big question many of us need answered. I think most mandatory resale owners here understand that we would have to retro to exchange for DC points, but the other benefits associated with the club dues are also being questioned, I.e the free internal interval exchanges removal of banking, and other fees. Unenrolled Marriott weeks are similar to Voluntary resales that are not in the VSN. You need a separate interval account and you need to pay for that account.

Here is a benefit of an enrolled vistana unit. They can book cruises with star options. This is the terms and conditions to book:
“ELIGIBILITY

Participants must be VSN members with sufficient available Use Rights to participate in the Owner Cruise offer. Bonus StarOptions, Vacation Ownership Interests (“VOIs”) purchased through an unauthorized resale agent or HOA resale offer, or VOIs not enrolled in the VSN are not eligible for this offer.“

This is presumably going to be the same terms and conditions associated with the eligibility to convert to DC.

But will the interval benefits of the new club dues carry over to EVERYONE with a Corp account? I for one hope so

 

[TravelTime]

An interesting possibility is that unqualified mandatory resale Vistana weeks might still have a different II account with all the same fees. II has many variations of accounts so keeping what exists for the various classes of resale owners is not complex at all. Just curious why people think mandatory resale owners will be converted to a MVC corporate II account?

 

[CPNY]

An interesting possibility is that unqualified mandatory resale Vistana weeks might still have a different II account with all the same fees. II has many variations of accounts so keeping what exists for the various classes of resale owners is not complex at all. Just curious why people think mandatory resale owners will be converted to a MVC corporate II account?

Because we already have corporate accounts.

 

[TravelTime]

Because we already have corporate accounts.

Yes but couldn’t you still have the same corporate account as long as the Vistana SOs program exists? My question is why would Marriott need to migrate Vistana owners, even mandatory owners, to a different corporate account with fewer fees? Wouldn’t it make sense that Vistana owners will keep the same II corporate account if nothing else changes with Vistana SOs?

 

[VacationForever]

Yes but couldn’t you still have the same corporate account as long as the Vistana SOs program exists? My question is why would Marriott need to migrate Vistana owners, even mandatory owners, to a different corporate account with fewer fees?

Because it will one club dues, so there is not a need for a VSN corporate II account.

 

[TravelTime]

Because it will one club dues, so there is not a need for a VSN corporate II account.

I have not been following this stuff about club dues so I am not up to date on the speculation around this. Why would there be one club dues for resale owners who are not in the new integrated program? Wouldn’t it still be two separate programs?

 

[VacationForever]

I have not been following this stuff about club dues so I am not up to date on the speculation around this. Why would there be one club dues for resale owners who are not in the new integrated program? Wouldn’t it still be two separate programs?

It is one club dues - current SO booking within VSN, free II corporate account, free trades to Marriott and Vistana resorts, no Bonvoy conversion cost and no banking fees. If it is enrolled in DC, then there is additional election to play in the DC sandbox.

 

[CPNY]

I have not been following this stuff about club dues so I am not up to date on the speculation around this. Why would there be one club dues for resale owners who are not in the new integrated program? Wouldn’t it still be two separate programs?

I posted earlier, they can easily add the new club dues and have some of the benefits but not all of the benefits to all vistana owners in the VSN. Adding interval internal exchanges is probably a drop in the bucket for them. Think about all of the owners with only one VOI. Their club dues/VSN fee just went from 155 to 210. Many never bother with interval or even use the banking option. In reality it sounds like they are giving things away but I’m sure they ran analytics on this and can make out on the deal. This is just a guess, but if I were a betting man, I’d say that there are far less vistana members who exchange In interval compared to Marriott owners. MVW giving all owners who pay club dues free interval exchange would not hurt their profits.

 

[DanCali]

It is one club dues - current SO booking within VSN, free II corporate account, free trades to Marriott and Vistana resorts, no Bonvoy conversion cost and no banking fees. If it is enrolled in DC, then there is additional election to play in the DC sandbox.

I'll take the devil advocate position here...

Since banked Staroptions (as well as Bonvoy conversion fees, and reservation cancel fees) are associated with a particular week, I am pretty skeptical they would give up all that revenue for non-enrolled weeks. It probably adds up to tens of millions of dollars a year.

What prevents them from still charging those fees for non-enrolled weeks? Like a said a couple of posts ago, I still pay $40 legacy reservation cancelation fees (outside 60-day window) on my MVC non-enrolled weeks. Why would they allow non-enrolled VSN weeks to avoid legacy fees, especially if those fees can be directly associated with the unenrolled week? It doesn't pass the corporate greed smell test...

 

[jabberwocky]

in the 11 years we’ve owned with Vistana we have never exchanged via II (I have done getaways and redeemed an AC once). Have also never used guest certs.

The only feature we do use is to bank our SO, which costs us $89. So with the combined fee we will be paying around $10/year more than we are now.

I actually think we will still keep our Vistana accounts and not be given and MVC II corporate account. They will just change the fees. I can’t see them creating a whole new set of II accounts and trying to separate out the mandatory resale from the “legitimate” VSN owners.

 

[dioxide45]

I actually think we will still keep our Vistana accounts and not be given and MVC II corporate account. They will just change the fees. I can’t see them creating a whole new set of II accounts and trying to separate out the mandatory resale from the “legitimate” VSN owners.

I think it actually makes sense to provide new II accounts for only those weeks that can be enrolled. When Marriott rolled out their DC program in 2010, if someone enrolled, then they likely enrolled all their weeks and they got a new II account and all the enrolled weeks went in there. With Vistana you may have some owners that have unqualified and qualified weeks in the same II account, if they can only enroll the qualified week, it makes sense for them to create a new II account. They can then segregate the fees easier. I would suspect Vistana owners enrolling in DC will be given the same type of account that Enrolled Marriott owners have and perhaps even have the same resort code added to be able to exchange Club Points through II.

 

[VacationForever]

I'll take the devil advocate position here...

Since banked Staroptions (as well as Bonvoy conversion fees, and reservation cancel fees) are associated with a particular week, I am pretty skeptical they would give up all that revenue for non-enrolled weeks. It probably adds up to tens of millions of dollars a year.

What prevents them from still charging those fees for non-enrolled weeks? Like a said a couple of posts ago, I still pay $40 legacy reservation cancelation fees (outside 60-day window) on my MVC non-enrolled weeks. Why would they allow non-enrolled VSN weeks to avoid legacy fees, especially if those fees can be directly associated with the unenrolled week? It doesn't pass the corporate greed smell test...

My head hurts.

 

[TravelTime]

I think what I have been asking might have just been answered by what @dioxide45 and @DanCali have said above. @VacationForever My head hurts too!

A question I should know the answer to: Is the VSN Membership Fee that’s on my statement that same thing as Club Dues? I get charged that every year on an EOY week. Now that seems ridiculous to me since I only own one week that is billed over 2 years. Why am I charged 2x for one week? Why don’t they charge me half of the VSN Membership Fee every year just like I pay half of the rest of the fees every year? Or am I confused again!

 

[dioxide45]

I think what I have been asking might have just been answered by what @dioxide45 and @DanCali have said above. @VacationForever My head hurts too!

A question I should know the answer to: Is the VSN Membership Fee that’s on my statement that same thing as Club Dues? I get charged that every year on an EOY week. Now that seems ridiculous to me since I only own one week that is billed over 2 years. Why am I charged 2x for one week? Why don’t they charge me half of the VSN Membership Fee every year just like I pay half of the rest of the fees every year? Or am I confused again!

Yes, the VSN fee is Vistana's equivalent to Marriott's Annual DC Club Fee that you pay. Both Marriott and Vistana charge this fee every year, even if you own an EOY ownership. They claim that since it covers other benefits other than just your usage, the fee applies every year. It does provide a free II account for which you can purchase getaways every year.

 

[Eric B]

@VacationForever My head hurts too!
A question I should know the answer to: Is the VSN Membership Fee that’s on my statement that same thing as Club Dues? I get charged that every year on an EOY week. Now that seems ridiculous to me since I only own one week that is billed over 2 years. Why am I charged 2x for one week? Why don’t they charge me half of the VSN Membership Fee every year just like I pay half of the rest of the fees every year? Or am I confused again!

Yes, the VSN fee is Vistana's equivalent to Marriott's Annual DC Club Fee that you pay. Both Marriott and Vistana charge this fee every year, even if you own an EOY ownership. They claim that since it covers other benefits other than just your usage, the fee applies every year. It does provide a free II account for which you can purchase getaways every year.

So, following that logic, if a VSN owner has both qualified weeks and unqualified mandatory weeks, under the potential new set if systems they could have both a MVW corporate II account and a Vistana corporate II account and pay both a consolidated club fee and a VSN fee since they are still getting benefits from the Vistana one as well as eligibility for VSN reservations? There's a lot of potential for hosing up the integration if they leave out the unqualified mandatory weeks....

 

[kozykritter]

Exactly, dioxide. Plus, II deposits can be used over multiple years including the off year.

Also don't forget that the EOY week comes with StarOptions in the use year that can be banked and used over a couple years so the potential for you to be using the system every year is there. It's not practical for Vistana to turn on and off your account based upon actual II or VSN usage during a given year, even your off year. They are too busy messing up other things

 

[dioxide45]

So, following that logic, if a VSN owner has both qualified weeks and unqualified mandatory weeks, under the potential new set if systems they could have both a MVW corporate II account and a Vistana corporate II account and pay both a consolidated club fee and a VSN fee since they are still getting benefits from the Vistana one as well as eligibility for VSN reservations? There's a lot of potential for hosing up the integration if they leave out the unqualified mandatory weeks....

I would agree. If they don't include unqualified mandatory resale Vistana weeks, it would be possible for someone to have an unqualified resale and a qualified week. Thus they would have to pay both fees and have two II accounts.

 

[kozykritter]

So, following that logic, if a VSN owner has both qualified weeks and unqualified mandatory weeks, under the potential new set if systems they could have both a MVW corporate II account and a Vistana corporate II account and pay both a consolidated club fee and a VSN fee since they are still getting benefits from the Vistana one as well as eligibility for VSN reservations? There's a lot of potential for hosing up the integration if they leave out the unqualified mandatory weeks....

Seems like you would pay one VSN fee to cover all mandatory weeks since that fee is charged to the owner regardless of week qualified/unqualified status, same as now. Mandatory weeks are still participating in the VSN system and would receive all of the same fee reductions. That fee is not tied to being eligible to enroll in DC with MVC.

The part about how they would handle the II accounts is the mystery here. Based upon things people have been told, it's very possible that things will stay the same as far as II accounts with the exception of ownership that is elected to the DC being moved to a Marriott II account. Not sure how that would all work.

 

[Eric B]

Seems like you would pay one VSN fee to cover all mandatory weeks since that fee is charged to the owner regardless of week qualified/unqualified status, same as now. Mandatory weeks are still participating in the VSN system and would receive all of the same fee reductions. That fee is not tied to being eligible to enroll in DC with MVC. The part about how they would handle the II accounts is the mystery here.

Might work that way, but the devil is in the details. An owner with enrolled weeks will pay the consolidated club fee and not the VSN fee for those weeks. We haven’t heard anything about a general amnesty from the VSN fees for unqualified mandatory weeks owned by folks with enrolled weeks, have we?

 

[kozykritter]

Might work that way, but the devil is in the details. An owner with enrolled weeks will pay the consolidated club fee and not the VSN fee for those weeks. We haven’t heard anything about a general amnesty from the VSN fees for unqualified mandatory weeks owned by folks with enrolled weeks, have we?

The consolidated club fee and the VSN fee are the same thing, they just renamed it to reflect the fact that consolidated transactional fees with the club fee. Everyone will pay it regardless of enrollment ( except those ownerships not eligible for VSN/StarOptions, same as now). It covers all weeks owned regardless of qualified status. This is based upon info shared by Denise's contact and graphics posted by various users after sales presentations so it's the best guess for now on how it will work.

 

[kozykritter]

I think what's driving the confusion here is when we see words like consolidated we start to think that Marriott is merging Vistana into its timeshare system. To be more accurate what I believe is happening is Marriott is consolidating the administration of the two timeshare systems into one process but not the actual property access portion of the two systems.

Essentially Marriott is changing Vistana's club dues/fees structure to match its own where it charges a higher club fee and all transactional fees are included, presumably so it can merge Vistana owners into its existing IT platform/process for club administration. This has nothing to do with whether a Vistana ownership will be able to enroll in DC. If you pay club/VSN dues on your ownership now you'll continue to pay it going forward. On the property access side, the two timeshare programs are remaining separate with the only bridge being this one-way enrollment option for qualified Vistana ownership into the DC system and the resulting ability for MVC owners to book that inventory when elected.