CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[jabberwocky]

I think it actually makes sense to provide new II accounts for only those weeks that can be enrolled. When Marriott rolled out their DC program in 2010, if someone enrolled, then they likely enrolled all their weeks and they got a new II account and all the enrolled weeks went in there. With Vistana you may have some owners that have unqualified and qualified weeks in the same II account, if they can only enroll the qualified week, it makes sense for them to create a new II account. They can then segregate the fees easier. I would suspect Vistana owners enrolling in DC will be given the same type of account that Enrolled Marriott owners have and perhaps even have the same resort code added to be able to exchange Club Points through II.

But does Marriott run the DC through II? In my case I have developer purchased, retroed voluntary and an unqualified mandatory resale. Currently they are all covered by the same VSN fee. If the new club fee is replacing VSN fee, why wouldn’t they continue to be in the same II account as the fee provides a corporate II account?

Conversion of weeks to DP would not be handled through II would it? I’m thinking that would be via the regular Vistana or Marriott portal they give the Vistana owners. If DP conversion is not going through II there really isn’t a need for a second II account.

I get that you need a separate II account for resale Marriott weeks (post-2010 purchase) - it is the same for voluntary resales in Vistana. What marriott doesn’t really seem to have is the equivalent of a mandatory week that continues to be in the club even on resale. That is where I think many of us have some doubts as to how this will be handled.

 

[Eric B]

The consolidated club fee and the VSN fee are the same thing, they just renamed it. Everyone will pay it regardless of enrollment ( except those ownerships not eligible for VSN/StarOptions, same as now). It covers all weeks owned regardless of qualified status. This is based upon info shared by Denise's contact and graphics posted by various users after sales presentations so it's the best guess for now on how it will work.

What I've seen regarding the consolidated club fee in the prior postings from Denise's contact and the outcomes of sales presentations, including one I attended, is that the amount of the fee is dependent on the status the owner has in the club, which is determined by summing the total number of annualized enrolled points the owner could convert if they elected to do so. I don't believe I had seen an amount listed for someone with zero enrolled points, which would be the case for anyone like me that only owns unqualified mandatory resorts. I have no doubt that I will be charged something, either a VSN fee as has been the case to date or a consolidated club fee because they allow me to enroll my weeks and I do so. I don't believe I've seen anything that clarifies what it will be. The benefits at a glance chart for MVW might be understood to cover me because the lowest tier is a "less than" tier, but having zero enrolled points and being charged for membership probably won't go over very well for an awful lot of people if you ask them.

 

[dioxide45]

The consolidated club fee and the VSN fee are the same thing, they just renamed it. Everyone will pay it regardless of enrollment ( except those ownerships not eligible for VSN/StarOptions, same as now). It covers all weeks owned regardless of qualified status. This is based upon info shared by Denise's contact and graphics posted by various users after sales presentations so it's the best guess for now on how it will work.

I think it will have to be a wait and see how it really works in practice when they implement the program. I see some real problems with them thrusting a 35% price increase on the VSN fee of every Vistana owner, even if they have no plans to ever use the new program. Thus why I expect they will require enrollment into the new program, agreement to the terms and agreement to the new fee. While Denise's contact provided some great information, they didn't really cover or know about the nuances of qualified and unqualified mandatory VOIs.

 

[kozykritter]

What I've seen regarding the consolidated club fee in the prior postings from Denise's contact and the outcomes of sales presentations, including one I attended, is that the amount of the fee is dependent on the status the owner has in the club, which is determined by summing the total number of annualized enrolled points the owner could convert if they elected to do so. I don't believe I had seen an amount listed for someone with zero enrolled points, which would be the case for anyone like me that only owns unqualified mandatory resorts. I have no doubt that I will be charged something, either a VSN fee as has been the case to date or a consolidated club fee because they allow me to enroll my weeks and I do so. I don't believe I've seen anything that clarifies what it will be. The benefits at a glance chart for MVW might be understood to cover me because the lowest tier is a "less than" tier, but having zero enrolled points and being charged for membership probably won't go over very well for an awful lot of people if you ask them.

It's all speculation at this point so each of us gets to form our own opinion of what will actually happen.

 

[Eric B]

It's all speculation at this point so each of us gets to form our own opinion of what will actually happen.

We're in complete agreement on that!

 

[kozykritter]

I think it will have to be a wait and see how it really works in practice when they implement the program. I see some real problems with them thrusting a 35% price increase on the VSN fee of every Vistana owner, even if they have no plans to ever use the new program. Thus why I expect they will require enrollment into the new program, agreement to the terms and agreement to the new fee. While Denise's contact provided some great information, they didn't really cover or know about the nuances of qualified and unqualified mandatory VOIs.

They've had no problem raising the club the significantly over the 10 years that I've been an owner so I doubt that will be a consideration now, especially since this raise includes eliminating other fees as part of it. I believe the word consolidated in the name of the new fee applies to that aspect of it and not any consolidation with Marriott.

 

[dioxide45]

They've had no problem raising the club the significantly over the 10 years that I've been an owner so I doubt that will be a consideration now, especially since this raise includes eliminating other fees as part of it. I believe the word consolidated in the name of the new fee applies to that aspect of it and not any consolidation with Marriott.

Perhaps, but a 35% increase over 10 years is much different than a 35%+ increase in one year. The one crux will be about how unqualified mandatory weeks are handled. Will they want to provide free II exchanges for those weeks even if they can't use Club Points? They may be a small enough population that Marriott won't really care much.

The term "consolidated" goes back to how the fee was originally pitched to Marriott owners in 2010 when they rolled out DC. They consolidated all the Marriott fees ($35 weeks cancellation fee, lock off fee, exchange fees, split week fees, II membership fee) into the DC Club Fee for enrolled weeks. The fee would be the same on the Vistana side and consolidate all of the fees their owners pay (banking fee, cancellation fee, guest certificate, exchange fees). I don't think we can take the term consolidated to mean they will eliminate the VSN fee for everyone. We don't know if enrollment is going to be required for everyone or if it will be like on the Marriott side where owners had to take specific action to enroll their weeks and agree to terms of the new program.

 

[DanCali]

The term "consolidated" goes back to how the fee was originally pitched to Marriott owners in 2010 when they rolled out DC. They consolidated all the Marriott fees ($35 weeks cancellation fee, lock off fee, exchange fees, split week fees, II membership fee) into the DC Club Fee for anyone that enrolled. The fee would be the same on the Vistana side and consolidate all of the fees their owners pay (banking fee, cancellation fee, guest certificate, exchange fees).

I am not sure that is a fully accurate characterization. It's more like they "consolidated the Marriott fees for an owner's enrolled weeks."

I have MVC enrolled weeks and unenrolled weeks. For the unenrolled weeks I am still subject to reservation cancelation fees. I also need to pay for a separate II account if I wish to maintain one (I am not sure how the II exchange fees in that account because I never used it to make an exchange). I think that distinction is important because I don't think owners of unenrolled weeks should expect fees associated with those weeks (banking fees, Bonvoy conversion fees, reservation cancel fees) to go away even if they have other enrolled weeks.

 

[dioxide45]

I am not sure that is a fully accurate characterization. It's more like they "consolidated the Marriott fees for an owner's enrolled weeks."

I have MVC enrolled weeks and unenrolled weeks. For the unenrolled weeks I am still subject to reservation cancelation fees. I also need to pay for a separate II account if I wish to maintain one (I am not sure how the II exchange fees in that account because I never used it to make an exchange). I think that distinction is important because I don't think owners of unenrolled weeks should expect fees associated with those weeks (banking fees, Bonvoy conversion fees, reservation cancel fees) to go away even if they have other enrolled weeks.

That is what I meant, I updated to clarify my post. I think we are splitting hairs here.

I agree with what you are saying. I don't expect those fees to go away for VOIs (could also be Flex and not weeks) that aren't eligible.

 

[kozykritter]

I am not sure that is a fully accurate characterization. It's more like they "consolidated the Marriott fees for an owner's enrolled weeks."

I have MVC enrolled weeks and unenrolled weeks. For the unenrolled weeks I am still subject to reservation cancelation fees. I also need to pay for a separate II account if I wish to maintain one (I am not sure how the II exchange fees in that account because I never used it to make an exchange). I think that distinction is important because I don't think owners of unenrolled weeks should expect fees associated with those weeks (banking fees, Bonvoy conversion fees, reservation cancel fees) to go away even if they have other enrolled weeks.

We'll see. I think any week already subject to the VSN fee will continue to be charged the fee in its new form with all transactional fees consolidated. The equivalent of a MVC unenrolled week in the Vistana system is unqualified voluntary ownership which aren't currently eligible to participate in the VSN and don't pay a membership fee. They will likely continue to pay all those individual fees that you were talking about.

 

[Eric B]

I don't think owners of unenrolled weeks should expect fees associated with those weeks (banking fees, Bonvoy conversion fees, reservation cancel fees) to go away even if they have other enrolled weeks.

Functionally, the guest fee seems to have gone away due to the ability to change the name on a reservation in the Bonvoy system, which is the one used at the resorts to see who is checking in. There is at least that as an indication that the modifications they are making to their systems are not distinguishing between enrolled and unenrolled weeks. I was able to change the name on a reservation that I had made for someone using banked StarOptions at a resort and in the season and room type I own by doing that just this week - I will call and verify with the resort that they have the proper name on the reservation a couple of weeks or so before the check in date and pay to make the change in the VSN system if I have to, but suspect that it won't be necessary. Based on postings by others, the same issues are taking place with reservations for voluntary resale weeks.

It would be nice to know what the final IT set up will be for VSN and MVW as there doesn't seem to be good feedback between the two systems vis-à-vis the guest names. I'm not willing to try out the functionality of canceling within 60 days in the Bonvoy system to see if that works properly.

 

[dioxide45]

Functionally, the guest fee seems to have gone away due to the ability to change the name on a reservation in the Bonvoy system,

I think this is an oversight in the Bonvoy system. I don't think Vistana had the intention of having owners change the name on a reservation in the Marriott.com website. Marriott.com is a website owned and managed by a completely separate entity than either Marriott Vacation Club or Vistana. MVC owner reservations are only a small fraction of the total reservations that run through Marriott.com and I suspect they didn't ask MVC or Vistana about anything when making changes to Marriott.com. MVC has never charged for guest name changes.

 

[Eric B]

We'll see. I think any week already subject to the VSN fee will continue to be charged the fee in its new form with all transactional fees consolidated. The equivalent of a MVC unenrolled week in the Vistana system is unqualified voluntary ownership which aren't currently eligible to participate in the VSN and don't pay a membership fee. They will likely continue to pay all those individual fees that you were talking about.

Unqualified voluntary weeks can't be banked or converted to Bonvoy points, so those are irrelevant. Are they subject to the same cancellation fees as a VSN week is? I'm not sure how that would work, but guest fees would be inapplicable as they all have to be home week reservations and there would also not be any split housekeeping fees because they can't be booked that way. Not sure what fees there would actually be.

 

[dioxide45]

It would be nice to know what the final IT set up will be for VSN and MVW as there doesn't seem to be good feedback between the two systems vis-à-vis the guest names. I'm not willing to try out the functionality of canceling within 60 days in the Bonvoy system to see if that works properly.

In the past, when someone tried to cancel an MVC owner reservation on Marriott.com, it simply didn't work. I think you are conflating two things that are not the same. Marriott.com/Bonvoy will not be the website used for owner reservations in any way shape or form. It may allow certain modifications, but I suspect it is all an oversight by Marriott International (hotel company)

 

[jabberwocky]

I think this is an oversight in the Bonvoy system. I don't think Vistana had the intention of having owners change the name on a reservation in the Marriott.com website. Marriott.com is a website owned and managed by a completely separate entity than either Marriott Vacation Club or Vistana. MVC owner reservations are only a small fraction of the total reservations that run through Marriott.com and I suspect they didn't ask MVC or Vistana about anything when making changes to Marriott.com. MVC has never charged for guest name changes.

Maybe it would be best if we didn’t discuss this in a public forum if we want to keep it this way.

 

[SueDonJ]

I think it will have to be a wait and see how it really works in practice when they implement the program. I see some real problems with them thrusting a 35% price increase on the VSN fee of every Vistana owner, even if they have no plans to ever use the new program. Thus why I expect they will require enrollment into the new program, agreement to the terms and agreement to the new fee. While Denise's contact provided some great information, they didn't really cover or know about the nuances of qualified and unqualified mandatory VOIs.

I try to simplify things as much as possible. Effectively, for Marriott Weeks owners "enrollment in the Destination Club" has really only ever meant that you're choosing to join a separate and distinct exchange company. The Destination Club itself is a three-pronged entity: the DC Trust to which MVC-owned/controlled Weeks can be conveyed; the DC Trust Points that correlate to those conveyances which are sold as "Beneficial Interests" in the Trust (1 BI = 250 Trust Points; ) and, the Destination Club Exchange Company which gives owners of eligible Weeks an additional usage option allowing them to play in the DC sandbox, if they want that option. Sure, with enrollment there comes ancillary DC usage options and benefits in addition to the Exchange Company membership, but joining another exchange company is basically what the DC means for owners of enrolled Weeks.

What exchange company exists that is allowed, legally, to automatically add owners to its membership list and charge them fees for that membership?!

Somebody (I think it was @DanCali maybe?) somewhere yesterday posted a screenshot of the first page of the "Enrollment Agreement" contract that he signed when he enrolled his Marriott Weeks. Like he said it's ten or so pages of legalese to which the enrollee must agree. Marriott didn't design it that way because that's what worked for them, they designed it that way because that's what the law requires of them. It's an opt-in process, not automatic at all.

I get why there are so many questions about which Vistana ownerships will be eligible for DC membership, and why/how the VSN club fees that some of you are already paying throw a curveball that's not familiar to those of us who don't own Vistana. What I don't understand is the thought process that somehow because those VSN club fees already exist, Marriott can simply thrust this new option on all the club members and raise all their fees in the process.

 

[TravelTime]

Here is what I am wondering. I own the following and have 3 II accounts in the following buckets:
1) DPs and enrolled MVC weeks, one corporate MVC II account and one set of annual club fees
2) Unqualified EOY resale Mandatory Vistana week, a corporate Vistana II account and annual VSN fees
3) Unqualified MVC week and a personal II account for all my unqualified weeks and other timeshares

So I would assume if I make no changes after the roll out of the integrated program, nothing changes in the above buckets. I will pay the same fees.

OTOH, based on what I am hearing, if I enroll my Vistana week in bucket #2, then that week **might** move to bucket #1 and the VSN fees will go away and I will then pay one set of annual club fees for buckets #1 and #2???

My question has been regarding bucket #2. Let’s say you do not enroll your week in the new integrated program and the StarOptions program still exists for exchanging Vistana weeks, why would anything change with the way Marriott charges fees for unqualified resale weeks, regardless of whether they are mandatory or voluntary?

 

[dioxide45]

Maybe it would be best if we didn’t discuss this in a public forum if we want to keep it this way.

Maybe.

Here is what I am wondering. I own the following and have 3 II accounts in the following buckets:
1) DPs and enrolled MVC weeks, one corporate MVC II account and one set of annual club fees
2) Unqualified EOY resale Mandatory Vistana week, a corporate Vistana II account and annual VSN fees
3) Unqualified MVC week and a personal II account for all my unqualified weeks and other timeshares

So I would assume if I make no changes after the roll out of the integrated program, nothing changes in the above buckets. I will pay the same fees.

OTOH, based on what I am hearing, if I enroll my Vistana week in bucket #2, then that week **might** move to bucket #1 and the VSN fees will go away and I will then pay one set of annual club fees for buckets #1 and #2???

My question has been regarding bucket #2. Let’s say you do not enroll your week in the new integrated program and the StarOptions program still exists for exchanging Vistana weeks, why would anything change with the way the Marriott charges fees for unqualified resale weeks?

Good questions. Unfortunately no one, at least not here, is qualified to answer. We are all still guessing even after Marriott supposedly had a soft launch of the program. They were woefully underprepared and it seems this is all done for one main reason; confuse existing owners so they can sell them something more.

 

[kozykritter]

Right now the only two things we know for certain are...

-Change is coming
-Once it arrives, there will be perceived winners and losers.

Sounds a lot like life

 

[Captron]

What exchange company exists that is allowed, legally, to automatically add owners to its membership list and charge them fees for that membership?!

Somebody (I think it was @DanCali maybe?) somewhere yesterday posted a screenshot of the first page of the "Enrollment Agreement" contract that he signed when he enrolled his Marriott Weeks. Like he said it's ten or so pages of legalese to which the enrollee must agree. Marriott didn't design it that way because that's what worked for them, they designed it that way because that's what the law requires of them. It's an opt-in process, not automatic at all.

I get why there are so many questions about which Vistana ownerships will be eligible for DC membership, and why/how the VSN club fees that some of you are already paying throw a curveball that's not familiar to those of us who don't own Vistana. What I don't understand is the thought process that somehow because those VSN club fees already exist, Marriott can simply thrust this new option on all the club members and raise all their fees in the process.

I don't think they have to "automatically add owners to its membership list and charge them fees for that membership" they can simply increase the VSN fee to match the Club dues and "include" membership/access to DC to the ADDITIONAL benefits VSN owners will receive for paying their NEW (higher) VSN fee


I can see the sales pitch now (For all those who currently pay the VSN fee)...

VSN Fees are increasing by ~35% but look what you are getting!!! banking fee, cancellation fee, guest certificate, exchange fees, etc. all waived.

BUT WAIT THERE IS MORE! IF YOU CALL RIGHT NOW WE WILL INCLUDE the ability to [insert sales speak meaning "access" the DC system] AT NO EXTRA CHARGE!!! (just pay the shipping and handling fees)

You get ALL of that INCLUDED!!! ALL OF THAT FOR THE LOW LOW PRICE OF...

(and yes, there will be an agreement to electronically sign) JUST SIGN HERE ________________________

We accept Visa, MC, AMEX, Discover, EBT, and any other way to transfer money from your pocket to ours.

 

[Eric B]

I don't think they have to "automatically add owners to its membership list and charge them fees for that membership" they can simply increase the VSN fee to match the Club dues....

But the Club dues are based on total enrolled points.

 

[Captron]

But the Club dues are based on total enrolled points.

So that is the price that individual member is quoted as their annual dues. I am sure even this IT department can figure out how to auto-populate the blank in the pitch.

I am not a programmer but (<x points = fee 1, x points - y points= fee 2, >y points= fee 3)

 

[SueDonJ]

I don't think they have to "automatically add owners to its membership list and charge them fees for that membership" they can simply increase the VSN fee to match the Club dues and "include" membership/access to DC to the ADDITIONAL benefits VSN owners will receive for paying their NEW (higher) VSN fee


I can see the sales pitch now (For all those who currently pay the VSN fee)...

VSN Fees are increasing by ~35% but look what you are getting!!! banking fee, cancellation fee, guest certificate, exchange fees, etc. all waived.

BUT WAIT THERE IS MORE! IF YOU CALL RIGHT NOW WE WILL INCLUDE the ability to [insert sales speak meaning "access" the DC system] AT NO EXTRA CHARGE!!! (just pay the shipping and handling fees)

You get ALL of that INCLUDED!!! ALL OF THAT FOR THE LOW LOW PRICE OF...

(and yes, there will be an agreement to electronically sign) JUST SIGN HERE ________________________

We accept Visa, MC, AMEX, Discover, EBT, and any other way to transfer money from your pocket to ours.

So what happens if a Vistana owner doesn't sign whatever legal documents require their signature for membership?

 

[kozykritter]

Club dues in the Marriott system are based upon total enrolled points. Club dues in the Vistana system will be based upon elite level. The higher the elite level, the higher the club fee which makes sense because the more you own, the more likely you are to have a higher level of transactional fees which are being consolidated into the club dues.

 

[Eric B]

Club dues in the Marriott system are based upon total enrolled points. Club dues in the Vistana system will be based upon elite level. The higher the elite level, the higher the club fee which makes sense because the more you own, the more likely you are to have a higher level of transactional fees which are being consolidated into the club dues.

Perhaps. Right now I pay a specific amount for my first VOI, a smaller specific amount for my second VOI, and nothing for any additional VOIs. If they make it based on the elite level, my VSN fees should go down because I'm a resale peon without any elite status.