Wyndham eliminating mega-renters

[ronparise]

What percentage of taxpayers do you think pay taxes on income for which they do not receive a 1099 form?

Wyndham does not send out any 1099s for private rentals in Club Wyndham.


There a plenty of honest renters who report their income; there are plenty of renters who do not, because there is no 1099 form issued.

Why would Wyndham send me a 1099? Wyndham didnt pay me. Most of my customers paid me with a credit card and I used PayPal to process those payments. PayPal does generate a 1099k.

 

[ronparise]

No, if an owner is renting their deeded, fixed week.

Yes, absolutely yes Wyndham can limit reservations at a home resort, if booking reservations using Home Resort Undivided Interest points (not weeks) in the 10-13 months booking window (this is where megarenters operate), because those points are part of and subject to the Club Wyndham Program terms and conditions, which prohibits "Commercial Uses." I am confident every owner who bought UDI points, signed and agreed to the "Personal Use" provision.

My deed, where I have ARP, is only for UDI points. It references the specific interval associated with those points, but I have no ability to preferentially reserve that time block and rent it.

If you have UDI points the deed does not reference a specific interval

 

[dioxide45]

Why would Wyndham send me a 1099? Wyndham didnt pay me. Most of my customers paid me with a credit card and I used PayPal to process those payments. PayPal does generate a 1099k.

The thresholds for a 1099k from PayPal is pretty high. I think it is $20K and 200 transactions. If you stay under at least one of them, then no 1099K. I suspect it would be easy to hit the $20K for many, but many mega renters may not go over 200 transactions.

 

[ronparise]

No its gone just as I anticipated. Everyone including yourself are justifying that their or occasional rentals are not considered commercial use. No one really answered the question. Is Wyndham really out to eliminate mega renters. I think We need more data from owners that recieved letters.

I cant say what Wyndham wants to do now, but I can say for sure that they wanted to eliminate large scale renting since before I bought my first contracts in 2010 and I dont think anything has changed



As early as 2005, Wyndham began to notice problems associated with allowing a group of large point owners, sometimes referred to as “Megarenters,” to run large rental businesses using Wyndham points. A Wyndham internal presentation from 2005 noted that the company supported owners running rental businesses at the time, but recommended limiting transactions and tightening rules because of the negative effects Megarenters were having on Wyndham's business. A March 2006 presentation recommended altering many of the VIP Program benefits, such as limiting the number of free guest confirmations available to VIPs, changing the VIP cancellation policy, and limiting the ability of VIPs to upgrade their rooms, in order to deal with the problems created by Megarenters.
Many of these changes were actually implemented on July 15, 2006. Among these changes were a change in the upgrade policy from allowing VIP owners to upgrade a reserved unit to the largest available unit to only allowing an upgrade to the next larger unit available. Another change was that VIPs would only receive free guest confirmations if the guest was actually traveling with a VIP member. After hearing about the potential change to the guest confirmation policy, Mr. Spearman created the Spearman Trust in order to have additional “owners” of his Wyndham Points available to check guests into resorts, and in order to “protect himself” if Wyndham “successfully put [him] out of business with one of these rule changes.” (Doc. 77–1 at 13.) However, after outcry from owners Wyndham ultimately decided not to implement the rule change regarding guest confirmations. (Id. at 12.)
Wyndham continued to implement rule changes that had the effect of restricting rental activity. In 2007, Wyndham changed the rule giving VIP owners unlimited free guest certificates to one providing a tiered system for VIP owners, starting out with 5 free guest confirmations per year and topping out with 15 free guest confirmations per year for every million points owned for VIP Platinum owners. In 2008, Wyndham made further changes, including a significant increase in the guest confirmation fee for confirmations in excess of the limited complimentary amount, changed the cancellation policy from same day to 15 day, and created a “Do Not Sell” list so that Megarenters would not be taken on tours and marketed to by Wyndham sales personnel. A Wyndham employee noted in an internal email that these changes were “implemented to impact the profitability of the Megarenter's rental activity.” (Doc. 123–31 at 3.)
Sometime in 2010, Wyndham began work on a new computer software system known as “Voyager.” The program, which has not yet been implemented, is apparently intended to more strictly enforce the existing rules and close what Wyndham views as loopholes, such as the ability to cancel and then immediately rebook a reservation. (Doc. 123–53, at 4–5.) Wyndham added a provision to the 2011–2012 member directory which stated that “The Program is for a Member's own personal use and enjoyment and not for any commercial purposes.” (Doc. 123–75 at 3.) Additionally, an enforcement provision was added, stating that “manipulation of the program rules and/or Wyndham employees to gain an unfair advantage” could result in refusal of services or access to Wyndham services and employees for a duration of time determined at Wyndham's sole discretion. (Id. at 4.)
The final relevant change came in 2012. Wyndham points contracts designate a “use year,” which is the year long term in which points could be used. Megarenters would intentionally purchase contracts with different use years, so that they would still be able to make use of points gained at the end of one contract's use year on a contract with a different use year. In 2012, Wyndham changed the rules so that all owners who had contracts with different use years would have all of their contracts converted to a single use year. In Plaintiffs' case, their contracts were all converted to a January–December use year. All of the contracts that Plaintiffs had purchased directly from Wyndham already had a January–December use year, but several of the contracts that the Plaintiffs had purchased from third parties originally had different use years.
Spearman v. Wyndham Vacation Resorts, Inc., 69 F. Supp. 3d 1273, 1279-80 (N.D. Ala. 2014)

 

[ronparise]

The thresholds for a 1099k from PayPal is pretty high. I think it is $20K and 200 transactions. If you stay under at least one of them, then no 1099K. I suspect it would be easy to hit the $20K for many, but many mega renters may not go over 200 transactions.

I would argue that if you dont do 200 rentals in a year you arent really a megarenter, but thats not the point. My comment was really narrow focused. Someone posted that 1099s dont happen for megarenters. All I was trying to say is thats not 100% true

But the fact is when it comes to business tax returns, The IRS depends on the honesty of the taxpayer.

 

[CO skier]

Why would Wyndham send me a 1099? Wyndham didnt pay me. Most of my customers paid me with a credit card and I used PayPal to process those payments. PayPal does generate a 1099k.

If you have UDI points the deed does not reference a specific interval

I thought you preferred to remain unremembered?

so when can I expect an eviction notice?

That is a question to ask Jan M., who invoked your name.

I simply quoted your words that she must have missed.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Whoa, @ronparise I have never seen that information on the William Spearman case before now. What happened with Kendra's case? I am trying to remember her last name. She was living pretty fancy in a house in the hills of CO Springs but had to leave her home after Wyndham shut her down, but she still rents Wyndham, I believe. I know she settled out of court, so maybe you don't know about that one.

Nice to see you here. I am glad to be getting out but keeping one VIP Platinum Founder's account.

 

[kaljor]

Agree that it's good to hear from you again. You were a frequent poster when I looked into buying Wyndham in 2016.

I'm entirely resale, but your posts, as well as many others, let me understand the syatem completely before I laid out a dollar. I always remember you stressing that at 10 months out, points are points. True then, and true now.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I cant say what Wyndham wants to do now, but I can say for sure that they wanted to eliminate large scale renting since before I bought my first contracts in 2010 and I dont think anything has changed



As early as 2005, Wyndham began to notice problems associated with allowing a group of large point owners, sometimes referred to as “Megarenters,” to run large rental businesses using Wyndham points. A Wyndham internal presentation from 2005 noted that the company supported owners running rental businesses at the time, but recommended limiting transactions and tightening rules because of the negative effects Megarenters were having on Wyndham's business. A March 2006 presentation recommended altering many of the VIP Program benefits, such as limiting the number of free guest confirmations available to VIPs, changing the VIP cancellation policy, and limiting the ability of VIPs to upgrade their rooms, in order to deal with the problems created by Megarenters.
Many of these changes were actually implemented on July 15, 2006. Among these changes were a change in the upgrade policy from allowing VIP owners to upgrade a reserved unit to the largest available unit to only allowing an upgrade to the next larger unit available. Another change was that VIPs would only receive free guest confirmations if the guest was actually traveling with a VIP member. After hearing about the potential change to the guest confirmation policy, Mr. Spearman created the Spearman Trust in order to have additional “owners” of his Wyndham Points available to check guests into resorts, and in order to “protect himself” if Wyndham “successfully put [him] out of business with one of these rule changes.” (Doc. 77–1 at 13.) However, after outcry from owners Wyndham ultimately decided not to implement the rule change regarding guest confirmations. (Id. at 12.)
Wyndham continued to implement rule changes that had the effect of restricting rental activity. In 2007, Wyndham changed the rule giving VIP owners unlimited free guest certificates to one providing a tiered system for VIP owners, starting out with 5 free guest confirmations per year and topping out with 15 free guest confirmations per year for every million points owned for VIP Platinum owners. In 2008, Wyndham made further changes, including a significant increase in the guest confirmation fee for confirmations in excess of the limited complimentary amount, changed the cancellation policy from same day to 15 day, and created a “Do Not Sell” list so that Megarenters would not be taken on tours and marketed to by Wyndham sales personnel. A Wyndham employee noted in an internal email that these changes were “implemented to impact the profitability of the Megarenter's rental activity.” (Doc. 123–31 at 3.)
Sometime in 2010, Wyndham began work on a new computer software system known as “Voyager.” The program, which has not yet been implemented, is apparently intended to more strictly enforce the existing rules and close what Wyndham views as loopholes, such as the ability to cancel and then immediately rebook a reservation. (Doc. 123–53, at 4–5.) Wyndham added a provision to the 2011–2012 member directory which stated that “The Program is for a Member's own personal use and enjoyment and not for any commercial purposes.” (Doc. 123–75 at 3.) Additionally, an enforcement provision was added, stating that “manipulation of the program rules and/or Wyndham employees to gain an unfair advantage” could result in refusal of services or access to Wyndham services and employees for a duration of time determined at Wyndham's sole discretion. (Id. at 4.)
The final relevant change came in 2012. Wyndham points contracts designate a “use year,” which is the year long term in which points could be used. Megarenters would intentionally purchase contracts with different use years, so that they would still be able to make use of points gained at the end of one contract's use year on a contract with a different use year. In 2012, Wyndham changed the rules so that all owners who had contracts with different use years would have all of their contracts converted to a single use year. In Plaintiffs' case, their contracts were all converted to a January–December use year. All of the contracts that Plaintiffs had purchased directly from Wyndham already had a January–December use year, but several of the contracts that the Plaintiffs had purchased from third parties originally had different use years.
Spearman v. Wyndham Vacation Resorts, Inc., 69 F. Supp. 3d 1273, 1279-80 (N.D. Ala. 2014)

Ron, thanks for sharing this excerpt - the timeline written out for the changes is most useful to help provide context to other forum members, including myself, who have loosely referenced these changes that we knew about historically - but this excerpt gives us specific details on when the changes to limit VIP benefits were made to limit megarenter functions. This excerpt also confirms the fact that most of the whittling away of the VIP program benefits was and likely still is designed to eliminate megarenters - which is unfortunate IMHO - as the many are paying a very high price because of a selective few. It is what it is at the end of the day of course. Thanks again for this information, most appreciated.

 

[ronparise]

Have to innovate. When I was just breaking in and when a small timer there were mega renters who in a few years were out of the business.

When I started buying (2011) I didnt know megarenting was a thing except for that one guy that I was told about that, managed accounts for others and yea, by the time i figured out what I was doing ant what they had done, they were gone

 

[55plus]

That mega renters named, Sue with 12M plus points sold 2 of her 12 timeshares today for pennies:

1,000,000 Wyndham Smoky Mountain Points Annually ***NO RESERVE**** | eBay

Points may not show up into your account until use year starting 2022, If you receive the 2021 points, consider it a Bonus. you will be responsible for the monthly maintenance fees once transfer completes.

www.ebay.com

1,116,000 CLUB WYNDHAM POINTS, WYNDHAM NASHVILLE-----FREE CLOSING--------- | eBay

Wyndham Nashville. WYNDHAM NASHVILLE. 1,116,000 WYNDHAM POINTS. Points may not show up into your account until your Use year starting 2022, If you receive the 2021 points, consider it a "Bonus". you will be responsible for the monthly maintenance fees once transfer completes.

www.ebay.com

 

[Ty1on]

That mega renters named, Sue with 12M plus points sold 2 of her 12 timeshares today for pennies:

1,000,000 Wyndham Smoky Mountain Points Annually ***NO RESERVE**** | eBay

Points may not show up into your account until use year starting 2022, If you receive the 2021 points, consider it a Bonus. you will be responsible for the monthly maintenance fees once transfer completes.

www.ebay.com

1,116,000 CLUB WYNDHAM POINTS, WYNDHAM NASHVILLE-----FREE CLOSING--------- | eBay

Wyndham Nashville. WYNDHAM NASHVILLE. 1,116,000 WYNDHAM POINTS. Points may not show up into your account until your Use year starting 2022, If you receive the 2021 points, consider it a "Bonus". you will be responsible for the monthly maintenance fees once transfer completes.

www.ebay.com

Those are wicked high Maint Fees, aren't they?

 

[troy12n]

Those are wicked high Maint Fees, aren't they?

By the time this clears Wyndham and is transferred out, that seller will be taking a loss for sure.

 

[am1]

Yes 200 transactions a year is in the kids pool but they would be receiving payment in other ways. Check, bank deposits, transfers are very easy now etc.

Is there a really a difference to a mega renter of upgrading to the largest unit and only upgrading to the next largest unit available? To me a waste of time for Wyndham making that a point. I understand it limits the benefit and cost but any mega renter would work around it with no issue.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Do you think $6/1,000 is high MF's? I don't think it is, not personally. My Bali Hai is much less, but anything that amount and under is not bad at all.

The $7/1,000 is a bit high on the Nashville.

What does everyone else pay in MF's on their owned points, just average?

 

[Ty1on]

Do you think $6/1,000 is high MF's? I don't think it is, not personally. My Bali Hai is much less, but anything that amount and under is not bad at all.

The $7/1,000 is a bit high on the Nashville.

What does everyone else pay in MF's on their owned points, just average?

I'm pretty high, but after you deed me your Bali Hai my mix will look a lot better

 

[rickandcindy23]

I'm pretty high, but after you deed me your Bali Hai my mix will look a lot better

Sorry. I have someone else who will take it, if we choose that route.

 

[Ty1on]

Sorry. I have someone else who will take it, if we choose that route.

That would be a tough route to choose with such attractive MF. (And I was joking, note the emoticons)

 

[ronparise]

Whoa, @ronparise I have never seen that information on the William Spearman case before now. What happened with Kendra's case? I am trying to remember her last name. She was living pretty fancy in a house in the hills of CO Springs but had to leave her home after Wyndham shut her down, but she still rents Wyndham, I believe. I know she settled out of court, so maybe you don't know about that one.

Nice to see you here. I am glad to be getting out but keeping one VIP Platinum Founder's account.

Her last name is Bowers
I dont know the details or outcomes of any of the original megarenters , only what Ive read here or from court documents Ive found on the internet

I just found this> https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/i-am-angry-and-frustrated.78469/
so now I know more about Kendra than I did before today. But you knew that much,,, you posted on that thread The thing I found interesting is that the megarenters sued Wyndham then, but the last time around, in 2016 we didnt. At least I didnt. Wyndham, I believe was daring us to sue them. but we didnt rise to the bait.

Also Boca Bum, who you also probably know, posted on that thread... It was his example with another timeshare system that convinced me to go big with Wyndham, , and his advice to me was the same as he gave in Kendra's thread... although it was too late for Kendra.. he told me that nothing lasts forever with timeshares, and to always have an exit plan, He didnt have to warn me about investing any real money in a timeshare hustle because I didnt have any. Also he didnt think it was possible to make any real money with Wyndham.. He said it used to be possible but no longer.. That was in 2012 or 13,

You do remember, I hope, that it was you that pointed me in the right direction to become a Platinum VIP with very little money so thanks

 

[CO skier]

Ron, thanks for sharing this excerpt - the timeline written out for the changes is most useful to help provide context to other forum members, including myself, who have loosely referenced these changes that we knew about historically - but this excerpt gives us specific details on when the changes to limit VIP benefits were made to limit megarenter functions. This excerpt also confirms the fact that most of the whittling away of the VIP program benefits was and likely still is designed to eliminate megarenters - which is unfortunate IMHO - as the many are paying a very high price because of a selective few. It is what it is at the end of the day of course. Thanks again for this information, most appreciated.

Wyndham's definition of megarenters and Wyndham's intentions were more explicit in the Klebba lawsuit about 10 years later. Wyndham clearly recognized how "regular, non-VIP owners are adversely affected by Megarenters":

"Megarenters

Owners who are operating a commercial vacation rental business

A Megarenter is an Owner who amasses millions of points in their account for the purpose of booking large amounts of inventory so that they can rent out the units for a profit. They are conducting a business by using our business!


Why Megarenters Are A Problem

* Megarenters tie up inventory during peak times

* Megarenters' cancelled reservations often result in unused inventory

* Our regular, non-VIP Owners are adversely affected by Megarenters

* WVO’s Anti-Megarenter policies have an adverse affect on non-Megarenter Owners.


3. We have identified four opportunities aimed at getting owners to resorts they want more often and more efficiently. Each opportunity has a number of initiatives necessary to capture the value.

B. Get owners to engage within club rules to access the vacations they want
* Limit the use of loopholes by megarenters (e.g., cancel-rebook) that take inventory out of the system unfairly and reduce discretion in applying rules (e.g., overrides) where appropriate.

Proactively manage inventory resulting from cancellations and no-shows

* Create waitlists to fill canceled rooms
* Tighten rules on cancellations, in line with industry norms for condo and home rentals, to address serial cancellers
* Overbook owner stays based on history"

 

[ronparise]

Those are wicked high Maint Fees, aren't they?

Is $6 maintenance fees high?

 

[CO skier]

Is $6 maintenance fees high?

No, which is why the Smoky Mountain sold for $4/1000 points all-in ($omething, at least) and the Nashville, with MF almost 50% higher, sold for next to nothing all-in.

I vaguely recall some years ago, when CWA was selling in the $8-10/1000 range, someone posted a thread "Don't tell me prices aren't headed up." They were not.

 

[Sloane S]

Is $6 maintenance fees high?

i don’t think so, but I’m on the lower end of the scale with a $5.66 average including the program fees.

 

[Ty1on]

Is $6 maintenance fees high?

Not these days, I spose. I was looking at the Nashville and applied my response to both.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Her last name is Bowers
I dont know the details or outcomes of any of the original megarenters , only what Ive read here or from court documents Ive found on the internet

I just found this> https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/i-am-angry-and-frustrated.78469/
so now I know more about Kendra than I did before today. But you knew that much,,, you posted on that thread The thing I found interesting is that the megarenters sued Wyndham then, but the last time around, in 2016 we didnt. At least I didnt. Wyndham, I believe was daring us to sue them. but we didnt rise to the bait.

Also Boca Bum, who you also probably know, posted on that thread... It was his example with another timeshare system that convinced me to go big with Wyndham, , and his advice to me was the same as he gave in Kendra's thread... although it was too late for Kendra.. he told me that nothing lasts forever with timeshares, and to always have an exit plan, He didnt have to warn me about investing any real money in a timeshare hustle because I didnt have any. Also he didnt think it was possible to make any real money with Wyndham.. He said it used to be possible but no longer.. That was in 2012 or 13,

You do remember, I hope, that it was you that pointed me in the right direction to become a Platinum VIP with very little money so thanks

Yes, I remember all of that. We met Kendra, actually. We met her at her home way back then. She lost her home because her lifestyle changed drastically.

What happened to Jim (Boca Bum)? I think of him often. I found an obituary but hope that was not his.

Kendra was very close-mouthed about her dealings with Wyndham, but she walked away with (I believe, so take it with a grain of salt) a lot of guest certificates she could use. But she wouldn't tell me specifics. I know she was living in timeshares. That is all I know of Kendra. She is probably watching all of this unfold. Nice lady.

I didn't get the big audit that some of you were subjected to. We weren't using our points ahead and had a tough using them for the use year. The changes Wyndham made have slowed down business. That is a good time to get out, don't you think?

We have been doing this since 2008. We already owned Bali Hai to use ourselves. We converted them, but I didn't even know Wyndham was taking over at the time I bought them. It was still PAHIO and I was fighting the deed department over ROFR and having to get David Walter's approval for our purchases.