Frustrating email this morning from an owner

[TUGBrian]

This person was not a TUG member, but instead found us on the internet and asked this question. I felt it was important to share to show just how easy it is to get lured in by upfront fee resale companies:

Good afternoon. I purchased my Wyndham timeshare in 2018 and have never used it. Got talked into it - a big mistake. I am a widow 80 years old.
I’m still paying a mortgage on it of approximately $18,000.00. Also maintenance of $131.09 a month. Mortgage payment is $309.39 per month.

I have asked several times how I can sell this property. I received a call from sell my timeshare now. SMTN. They said they could advertise it for me for $1,598.00 so I gave them a check for that on 3/9/21. Of course nothing.

I hope you can advise me on this.

 

[theo]

This person was not a TUG member, but instead found us on the internet and asked this question. I felt it was important to share to show just how easy it is to get lured in by upfront fee resale companies:

It's just unconscionable that SMTN would even accept such a "listing" at all since, with an unpaid mortgage balance, no potential buyer will have any interest at all, regardless of price. SMTN has once again lowered the bar, already at ground level, by being so blatantly dishonest --- and with a 80 year old widow to boot --- possibly giving her unwarranted false hope in the process.

 

[dioxide45]

It's just unconscionable that SMTN would even take such a "listing" at all since, with an unpaid mortgage balance, the product cannot and will not possibly be sold, virtually regardless of the selling price. SMTN has once again lowered the bar, already at ground level.

I am willing to bet that they listed at or above $18,000 telling the woman that the proceeds from the sale would pay off the mortgage. Problem is that a buyer will never come along.

 

[rickandcindy23]

SMTN is a scam company. So sorry this person was sucked in. He needs to dispute that on his credit card or demand a refund.

 

[SandyPGravel]

He's 80 years old, I hope someone convinces him to just stop throwing good money after bad. How much can he need to worry about his credit report?

 

[theo]

SMTN is a scam company. So sorry this person was sucked in. He needs to dispute that on his credit card or demand a refund.

I have no use whatsoever for SMTN --- and never did. Btw, the TUGBrian-referenced "he" in post #1 is apparently a "she" (a widow), but that detail is not relevant to the following observation.

I don't really see how SMTN qualifies as a "scam" operation. SMTN takes (entirely too much) money to post (grossly overpriced) listings for (entirely willing) wannabe sellers. In the occasional instances where a sale actually occurs later, SMTN charges truly exorbitant closing costs. SMTN requiring their own handling of the (overpriced) closing themselves is more guaranteed "gravy"; greedy, but hardly a "scam". Surely, there is not much positive to be said about any of those practices, but where's the "scam"?

 

[Passepartout]

This is absolutely criminal. And not JUST SMTN. Wyndham is at least partly to blame. When she bought this she was 77. What possible use could a 77 y.o. have for a timeshare, let alone one with a mortgage!

I would encourage this person to contact their state Attorney General's office and see if they can get them to sue the bejesus out of every outfit that shamelessly preys on the elderly.

They have NO SHAME!

Seeing/hearing of this kind of abuse gives my faith in humanity another blow.

JIm

 

[VAlegacy]

Wonder if their frees are driven by list price

 

[theo]

Wonder if their frees are driven by list price

By all accounts, no. SMTN will (and does) charge whatever they can get the "client" to agree to pay. I'd not previously heard of any SMTN "listing" charge above $1,000 (it's usually well below that amount). Sad to see it occur now with a 80 year old widow involved.

 

[VAlegacy]

You would think they would at least advise on a realistic list price.
I frequently see contracts for $150k there.

 

[Mongoose]

I'm not an attorney, however there are laws and help out there for elder financial abuse.
Elder Financial Abuse: What It Is and How to End It - elderabuse.org

 

[Gypsy65]

It's just unconscionable that SMTN would even accept such a "listing" at all since, with an unpaid mortgage balance, no potential buyer will have any interest at all, regardless of price. SMTN has once again lowered the bar, already at ground level, by being so blatantly dishonest --- and with a 80 year old widow to boot --- possibly giving her unwarranted false hope in the process.

Why is it hard to believe this?

How many people really think the persons running these and any other unethical business is being done so by upstanding citizens?

This is being ran by the same type of groups that know a Nigerian prince

Thugs With a front man

Their are all types of roofers and other contractors doing this door to door as well as telemarketing companies

 

[rboesl]

This woman is looking for advice. In my mind the simple answer should be "just stop paying." At 80 years old a hit to the credit rating should have little or no impact upon her quality of life.

But, I do find Wyndham's actions deplorable. That salesperson should be terminated. And, SMTN's actions downright criminal.

 

[HitchHiker71]

This woman is looking for advice. In my mind the simple answer should be "just stop paying." At 80 years old a hit to the credit rating should have little or no impact upon her quality of life.

But, I do find Wyndham's actions deplorable. That salesperson should be terminated. And, SMTN's actions downright criminal.

Given 70% of the Wyndham sales staff was let go during the pandemic - the salesperson is likely long gone already.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[emeryjre]

I have a friend that is trying to find a way to list his timeshare for sale. I have repeatedly told him to call me before he makes a final decision to list the property. He is a magnet for people wanting money to sell his property. The number of times that the "sales organization" has needed money up front for whatever reason has been 100%.

It took me 3 months to convince him that all of these people will take his money and do nothing. This is why these organizations exist. There are people that pay the fees, have nothing happen and meekly never tell anyone about it.

It makes me sad to see how this works, but many people are just too gullible and unsuspecting.

In the case above, Wyndham has condoned the transaction. Unfortunately Wyndham has probably broken no laws, but the ethics of their behavior is repulsive.

 

[Fried_shrimp]

SMTN is a scam company. So sorry this person was sucked in. He needs to dispute that on his credit card or demand a refund.

ANY company that requires an upfront fee is a scam company.

 

[Fried_shrimp]

I have no use whatsoever for SMTN --- and never did. Btw, the TUGBrian-referenced "he" in post #1 is apparently a "she" (a widow), but that detail is not relevant to the following observation.

I don't really see how SMTN qualifies as a "scam" operation. SMTN takes (entirely too much) money to post (grossly overpriced) listings for (entirely willing) wannabe sellers. In the (relatively rare?) instances where a sale actually occurs later, SMTN charges truly exorbitant closing costs. Surely, there is not much positive to be said about any of those practices, but where's the "scam"?

IMO, by charging an upfront fee. Your definition of what constitutes being a scam may be different than mine.

 

[Fried_shrimp]

Given 70% of the Wyndham sales staff was let go during the pandemic - the salesperson is likely long gone already.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But not because of his/her actions.

 

[rickandcindy23]

IMO, by charging an upfront fee. Your definition of what constitutes being a scam may be different than mine.

Right! That is my point. Upfront fees and no possibility of selling, that is a scam operation. I stand by my post.

 

[Gypsy65]

This woman is looking for advice. In my mind the simple answer should be "just stop paying." At 80 years old a hit to the credit rating should have little or no impact upon her quality of life.

But, I do find Wyndham's actions deplorable. That salesperson should be terminated. And, SMTN's actions downright criminal.

I have made a comment about this in the past

Why should the person be fired?

None of us were there.
Maybe this lady went in acting like a billionaire or maybe she was??
Maybe she told them she loved TS and loved travel and it made perfect sense

I don’t always agree with tactics but.....
Many many people who have bought had a much different song to sing at the purchase table than they do later on

I’m not taking a side on any purchase deal
We all have a rescission period and obligation to know WTH we signed

Now.Many. Myself included next to never read anything we sign
I would bet many accept or click a box for agreement when logging on to some sites only to find out later your info is sold many times

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

We need to remember we are only seeing one part of the picture. We weren't on the sales floor. We don't know what was said. We don't know who reviewed the contract by Wyndham.

There is nothing in the email, at least the part posted by Brian, that says she is in any kind of financial distress. For all we know, she could be quite wealthy. Not all widows are scraping to make ends meet. I'm not saying she is or isn't. We don't know. But people here are impugning the character of people they don't know, have probably never met, based upon assumption.

I don't care if timeshare sales people are generally weasels. They are still human beings, and no human being deserves to have their character impugned and trashed based on a 100-word post on an internet message board.

**************

For all we know the sales force at Wyndham might actually have taken precautions to assure that she wasn't saddled with a financial obligation she couldn't happen. Perhaps she had a view of creating a place for vacations with family and friends, that she could pass on to children/grandchildren, but it hasn't worked our for her the way she imagined. So now she has a timeshare she isn't using - not an uncommon occurrence with timeshare purchases regardless of age.

I'm not saying that is what the situation. I am trying to say that we don't know, and what I wrote is as plausible as the demonizing that has been done upthread with no supporting information other than our biases and prejudices about timeshare sales people.

 

[rapmarks]

This is absolutely criminal. And not JUST SMTN. Wyndham is at least partly to blame. When she bought this she was 77. What possible use could a 77 y.o. have for a timeshare, let alone one with a mortgage!

I would encourage this person to contact their state Attorney General's office and see if they can get them to sue the bejesus out of every outfit that shamelessly preys on the elderly.

They have NO SHAME!

Seeing/hearing of this kind of abuse gives my faith in humanity another blow.

JIm

Watch it
I acquired one at 75 and two at 76

 

[dioxide45]

We need to remember we are only seeing one part of the picture. We weren't on the sales floor. We don't know what was said. We don't know who reviewed the contract by Wyndham.

There is nothing in the email, at least the part posted by Brian, that says she is in any kind of financial distress. For all we know, she could be quite wealthy. Not all widows are scraping to make ends meet. I'm not saying she is or isn't. We don't know. But people here are impugning the character of people they don't know, have probably never met, based upon assumption.

I don't care if timeshare sales people are generally weasels. They are still human beings, and no human being deserves to have their character impugned and trashed based on a 100-word post on an internet message board.

**************

For all we know the sales force at Wyndham might actually have taken precautions to assure that she wasn't saddled with a financial obligation she couldn't happen. Perhaps she had a view of creating a place for vacations with family and friends, that she could pass on to children/grandchildren, but it hasn't worked our for her the way she imagined. So now she has a timeshare she isn't using - not an uncommon occurrence with timeshare purchases regardless of age.

I'm not saying that is what the situation. I am trying to say that we don't know, and what I wrote is as plausible as the demonizing that has been done upthread with no supporting information other than our biases and prejudices about timeshare sales people.

According to the email, she indicated she was talked into it. So it wasn't her just walking in saying she wanted to buy a timeshare with her checkbook open.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

According to the email, she indicated she was talked into it. So it wasn't her just walking in saying she wanted to buy a timeshare with her checkbook open.

That doesn't change things one whit. Of course she bought it during a presentation. What does that have to do with anything about supposed taking advantage poor scrimping widows? She was in her mid-70s when she bought it. I don't know about you, but I don't assume that because someone is in their mid-70s they must be incapable of thinking clearly and rationally.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Right! That is my point. Upfront fees and no possibility of selling, that is a scam operation. I stand by my post.

[QUOTE @theo I don't really see how SMTN qualifies as a "scam" operation. SMTN takes (entirely too much) money to post (grossly overpriced) listings for...... Surely, there is not much positive to be said about any of those practices, but where's the "scam"?
[/QUOTE]

IMO Your both right

The “devil “ is in the details
LOL