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Frustrating email this morning from an owner

LannyPC

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Sadly, a few months from now this owner will be contacted by a Timeshare Exit Company

...or by another scam company claiming they can get the victim's money back, or that they can sue SMTN, or sue Wyndham with a class action lawsuit. The possibilities are endless.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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...or by another scam company claiming they can get the victim's money back, or that they can sue SMTN, or sue Wyndham with a class action lawsuit. The possibilities are endless.
The ex-pats working in Mexico are world-class in their ability in creating those continuing possibilities to separate victims from their money.

The BelAir resort in Puerto Vallarta and the Sierra Rentals roll-up purchase classics. I hate to say it, but if I set aside for a moment the stench, I have to admire how well-planned and well-executed those scams were. A bit like watching The Sting, except for the repulsion of watching those scams unfold in real time and seeing people getting suckered while getting upset with us for persisting in telling them that they were being scammed.
 

jehb2

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He's 80 years old, I hope someone convinces him to just stop throwing good money after bad. How much can he need to worry about his credit report?

This is terrible and I feel for her/him. I hope he just stops paying. But I feel compelled to mention that seniors still need good credit.

My mom downsized a few years ago. She eventually choose an awesome senior high rise (condo that she actually owns) after looking at lots of options. She has great credit. But one thing we learned in the process is that good credit is very important In senior living options. It can mean the difference between a lovely assisted living facility or one that smells like pee.
 

jbroner

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Has anyone thought of recommending Ovation to her ? Wouldn't this be the perfect situation and the reason behind why the program was created ?
 

Fried_shrimp

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Has anyone thought of recommending Ovation to her ? Wouldn't this be the perfect situation and the reason behind why the program was created ?

You have to have your timeshare paid off to utilize Ovations, just like all other timeshare return programs by the timeshare companies. She still has $18,000 left to pay on the mortgage.
 

Gypsy65

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I think a person at this age who bought a TS probably has an asset or two they could sell and cover this bill

The thought many have is if I can’t pay then give it back is a bad way to live
Sure we have all made mistakes and if this is the last thing the person has then I agree. Give it up

But to have a home. Cars. Or any other asset that could possibly be the case ( and many times is ) and to just dump any burden without any concern is selfish and greedy

There may be a day when I’m in the same boat and will have to cross that bridge but what happened to your yes means yes or any personal pride?
 

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I agree. But that's part of their business model. They tell owners that SMTN is a site for owners who want to get "full market value" for their TSs and thus, it's worth it to use SMTN and SMTN's high listing price. Whereas, low-cost listing websites such as TUG, Red Week, E-Bay, and Craigslist, etc., are for owners who don't care how much (or how little) they get for their TS, they just need to quickly get rid of it regardless of how much of a loss they're taking from the "full market value".
What market value?
 

lkc1234

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I guess we can just agree to disagree on a definition of "scam". People voluntarily (if unwisely) choosing to overpay, upfront, to place a "listing" on an Internet site is certainly a not a wise personal decision, but some SMTN listings do indeed ultimately produce a buyer and a successful closing and a transfer of ownership. Personally, I consider a "scam" to be an operation that collects upfront money with absolutely no chance (nor any intention) to ever successfully achieve the desired objective (a sale, in this case). YMMV.

To repeat my original statement, I have no use whatsoever for SMTN --- and never did. I just tend to wince a little bit whenever a bad personal decision is promptly labeled a "scam", whether that bad decision involves falling for a sales weasel pitch at a timeshare presentation, falling for a "extended auto warranty" pitch over the phone --- or paying SMTN far too much money to place a "listing".
Rarely does SMTN produce a buyer and a successful closing. That is a myth.
 

rickandcindy23

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If this elderly person is really in a bind with the payments, just walk away. What are they going to do to an elderly person?
 

theo

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Rarely does SMTN produce a buyer and a successful closing. That is a myth.

Rarely? Maybe so, I dunno --- but I have personally been one such buyer, so I must respectfully question your "myth" proclamation.

Specifically, we once purchased a fixed week 8 through SMTN at a place in Daytona Beach. It was some years ago now, but I vaguely recall that the place was called "Seven Seas Resort". We offered what we were willing to pay (considerably less than the listing price) and the the offer was accepted and a successful closing did indeed occur. The closing costs were of course exorbitant but the "all in" total figure was still acceptable to us at the time. We never actually set foot on that property; exchanging with it twice (back when we belonged to RCI) and unloading it for a bit less than our purchase price, ultimately preferring to buy weeks on the Gulf Coast instead.

I don't think SMTN gives a hoot what their overpriced "listings" ultimately sell for (at least back then, anyhow). After all, they have already collected serious upfront "listing" money from a desperate wannabe seller. If a buyer comes along (...rarely or not), SMTN gets the exact same inflated closing costs whether the "listing" ultimately sells for ten cents, ten dollars or ten thousand dollars. :shrug:

I have no use for SMTN, but they have certainly (and quite successfully) carved out a nice little niche for themselves, taking financial advantage of desperate and under-informed wannabe sellers while apparently staying (...just?) inside the lines of legality.
 
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lkc1234

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Rarely? Maybe so, I dunno --- but I have personally been one such buyer, so I must respectfully question your "myth" proclamation.

Specifically, we once purchased a fixed week 8 through SMTN at a place in Daytona Beach. It was some years ago now, but I vaguely recall that the place was called "Seven Seas Resort". We offered what we were willing to pay (considerably less than the listing price) and the the offer was accepted and a successful closing did indeed occur. The closing costs were of course exorbitant but the "all in" total figure was acceptable to us at the time. We never actually set foot on that property; exchanging with it twice (back when we belonged to RCI) and unloading it for a bit less than our purchase price, ultimately preferring to buy weeks on the Gulf Coast instead.

I don't think SMTN gives a hoot what their overpriced "listings" ultimately sell for (at least back then, anyhow). After all, they have already collected serious upfront "listing" money from a desperate wannabe seller. If a buyer comes along (...rarely or not), SMTN gets the exact same inflated closing costs whether the "listing" ultimately sells for ten cents, ten dollars or ten thousand dollars. :shrug:

I have no use for SMTN, but they have certainly (and quite successfully) carved out a nice little niche for themselves, taking financial advantage of desperate and under-informed wannabe sellers while apparently staying (...just?) inside the lines of legality.
I said they rarely sell a timeshare. It is a myth that they always sell your timeshare. Thanks.
 

escanoe

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I would love to know how long some of the inventory posted on SMTN has been listed. (I do not want to know bad enough to spend a lot of time on the way back machine.)

I can see people getting suckered once. If there is an expiration date for an ad, I will bet that amost no one pays to relist.

There is no education in the second kick of a mule.

Bay Tree Solutions is another outfit that appears to have a similar model.
 

needvaca

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I would love to know how long some of the inventory posted on SMTN has been listed. (I do not want to know bad enough to spend a lot of time on the way back machine.)

I can see people getting suckered once. If there is an expiration date for an ad, I will bet that amost no one pays to relist.

There is no education in the second kick of a mule.

Bay Tree Solutions is another outfit that appears to have a similar model.
I've seen some for 2+ years. I've been looking for a specific resale for a while and I'd say 90%+ of its listings on SMTN just linger and linger
 

rapmarks

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I think a person at this age who bought a TS probably has an asset or two they could sell and cover this bill

The thought many have is if I can’t pay then give it back is a bad way to live
Sure we have all made mistakes and if this is the last thing the person has then I agree. Give it up

But to have a home. Cars. Or any other asset that could possibly be the case ( and many times is ) and to just dump any burden without any concern is selfish and greedy

There may be a day when I’m in the same boat and will have to cross that bridge but what happened to your yes means yes or any personal pride?
I would not say an 80 year old is “just dumping any burden without any concern and is selfish and greedy ”. I bet their personal pride is intact. are you actually saying they should lose their home to pay off a timeshare. Sell their car and Uber everywhere? Rather harsh.
 

GTLINZ

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This situation reminds me of sharks in the water when they smell blood ....

The bottom line is that a salesman sold a timeshare knowing that it was not worth what they were charging for it. (likely not close)

The bottom line is that a timeshare resale rep took fees to sell a timeshare knowing that the collected fee was unlikely to help sell the timeshare. (the odds not likely close)

There is (likely not close) a reputation to smear (as argued earlier) on either end of this sad tale.
 
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Gypsy65

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I would not say an 80 year old is “just dumping any burden without any concern and is selfish and greedy ”. I bet their personal pride is intact. are you actually saying they should lose their home to pay off a timeshare. Sell their car and Uber everywhere? Rather harsh.

Not going to get in to a pissing match but that’s not the point
Point is. Pay your bills or don’t start buying stuff at 70 or 80 and then wonder why you are in that situation
I get things happen but you bought something you obviously needed so pay for it or if you want to dump it then tuck tail and do so but don’t feel ripped off because you now don’t want it
The asset part was assets. Not going broke to cover the bill but if at 80 you have some $ or unneeded items then work than angle
 

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We need to remember we are only seeing one part of the picture. We weren't on the sales floor. We don't know what was said. We don't know who reviewed the contract by Wyndham.

There is nothing in the email, at least the part posted by Brian, that says she is in any kind of financial distress. For all we know, she could be quite wealthy. Not all widows are scraping to make ends meet. I'm not saying she is or isn't. We don't know. But people here are impugning the character of people they don't know, have probably never met, based upon assumption.

I don't care if timeshare sales people are generally weasels. They are still human beings, and no human being deserves to have their character impugned and trashed based on a 100-word post on an internet message board.

**************

For all we know the sales force at Wyndham might actually have taken precautions to assure that she wasn't saddled with a financial obligation she couldn't happen. Perhaps she had a view of creating a place for vacations with family and friends, that she could pass on to children/grandchildren, but it hasn't worked our for her the way she imagined. So now she has a timeshare she isn't using - not an uncommon occurrence with timeshare purchases regardless of age.

I'm not saying that is what the situation. I am trying to say that we don't know, and what I wrote is as plausible as the demonizing that has been done upthread with no supporting information other than our biases and prejudices about timeshare sales people.
Give me a break! Someone intheir 70s has to take a mortgage for $18,000 to buy a vacation
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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Give me a break! Someone intheir 70s has to take a mortgage for $18,000 to buy a vacation
How do you know they "had to take a mortgage"? Is that in the original post? I don't think so. You might very well be right. But you have zero supporting evidence for your statement.

Up thread I mentioned my mid-70's sister who purchased a Wyndham timeshare in a sales presentation. She took a mortgage on her purchase (I don't know for how much), even though she and her husband have net worth north of $50 million, with very good liquidity. She fully knew going in that she and her husband would never get the monetary value out of it that they put in. But she expected that they would get five to ten years of family vacations in Hawaii with her children and grandchildren, and then the ownership would get passed on to the next generation.

And three years later she was saying how she had been talked into it, what a mistake it was, how the monthly fees were a drain, etc., etc. Essentially the same story as the OP.

She was asking me how to get rid of it, and I was pointing her to TUG. Ultimately, their CPA decided to take it off their hands, for transfer fees.

*************************

I'm not saying the person in the OP and my sister are the same. What I am saying is that you can't assume that all mid-70 year old people who succumb to a sales pitch and later have buyer's regret have been bamboozled.

You appear to be assuming that because she was elderly, she must have been exploited. Personally, I think that's insulting to senior people - if not outright agist - to a priori assume that they are addled and vulnerable. I think it's better to assume that they are mentally sharp and acute until proven otherwise.

Understand that I post this as someone who is only a handful of years younger than the widow in the OP. And I'm a bit offended by the implication that those of those who are in that age range are automatically presumed to be less mentally acute and more susceptible to sales weasels.
 

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How do you know they "had to take a mortgage"? Is that in the original post? I don't think so. You might very well be right. But you have zero supporting evidence for your statement.

Up thread I mentioned my mid-70's sister who purchased a Wyndham timeshare in a sales presentation. She took a mortgage on her purchase (I don't know for how much), even though she and her husband have net worth north of $50 million, with very good liquidity. She fully knew going in that she and her husband would never get the monetary value out of it that they put in. But she expected that they would get five to ten years of family vacations in Hawaii with her children and grandchildren, and then the ownership would get passed on to the next generation.

And three years later she was saying how she had been talked into it, what a mistake it was, how the monthly fees were a drain, etc., etc. Essentially the same story as the OP.

She was asking me how to get rid of it, and I was pointing her to TUG. Ultimately, their CPA decided to take it off their hands, for transfer fees.

*************************

I'm not saying the person in the OP and my sister are the same. What I am saying is that you can't assume that all mid-70 year old people who succumb to a sales pitch and later have buyer's regret have been bamboozled.

You appear to be assuming that because she was elderly, she must have been exploited. Personally, I think that's insulting to senior people - if not outright agist - to a priori assume that they are addled and vulnerable. I think it's better to assume that they are mentally sharp and acute until proven otherwise.

Understand that I post this as someone who is only a handful of years younger than the widow in the OP. And I'm a bit offended by the implication that those of those who are in that age range are automatically presumed to be less mentally acute and more susceptible to sales weasels.

I find it kind of funny that someone who is worth $50m considers a few hundred a month in maint fees to be a "drain". :LOL:
 

dioxide45

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How do you know they "had to take a mortgage"? Is that in the original post? I don't think so. You might very well be right. But you have zero supporting evidence for your statement.
From the original post;
Good afternoon. I purchased my Wyndham timeshare in 2018 and have never used it. Got talked into it - a big mistake. I am a widow 80 years old.
I’m still paying a mortgage on it of approximately $18,000.00. Also maintenance of $131.09 a month. Mortgage payment is $309.39 per month.
 

Fried_shrimp

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From the original post;
Good afternoon. I purchased my Wyndham timeshare in 2018 and have never used it. Got talked into it - a big mistake. I am a widow 80 years old.
I’m still paying a mortgage on it of approximately $18,000.00. Also maintenance of $131.09 a month. Mortgage payment is $309.39 per month.

I think TRO is referring to "had to" versus "chose to". Yes, they have a mortgage but did they have to take a mortgage or did they simply choose to take one. Of course, to me, I don't think it really matters in the slightest. They HAVE a mortgage and that's all that matters.
 

dioxide45

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You appear to be assuming that because she was elderly, she must have been exploited. Personally, I think that's insulting to senior people - if not outright agist - to a priori assume that they are addled and vulnerable. I think it's better to assume that they are mentally sharp and acute until proven otherwise.
Why then are there very specific laws to protect the elderly from exploitation?

Though according to this article, millenials are more likely to be scammed, but the losses are more for the elderly;
 
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