Essential businesses and senior hours, did anyone even think out the issues?

[Luanne]

I don’t think realtors are considered essential. They are working from home and doing virtual open houses. All in-person open houses in California are banned. I know because we were trying to buy a new house right as this crisis started. We backed out and lost a huge deposit. But the house has been posted on MLS and Zillow with virtual staging. Just because virtual open houses are allowed does not mean that the industry is considered essential. I am a health care provider and my office is shut down but I am working via video. My profession is deemed non essential but I can still work via video. I am surprised that movers are still working. I guess if you already sold your house and need to move into the new one, that would be considered essential because you might be homeless otherwise. However, if you have not yet bought and sold a house, I can’t see how that could be considered essential. In California, that would not happen since no one can see new properties in person unless they are secretly breaking the SIP order. I would not put this past some people, though. No one is actually enforcing the SIP order so it is easy to get around it.

In NY, realtors are also considered non-essential:

Cuomo orders real estate agents to stop showing homes

Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s latest executive order prohibits in-person apartment showings, ending a fraught industry debate,

therealdeal.com

This is a good quote from someone in real estate industry:
Serhant also said that he agrees with the closure of non-essential services, including residential real estate brokerage. He pointed to thousands of service industry workers losing their jobs, saying, “If they’re not allowed to go to work, I don’t think we should be able to go to work either.”

Another quote from the article:
“We’re saying, No showings,” Freedman said. “No, Leonard, I still wouldn’t say it’s a moral obligation. Now it’s mandated. Everyone has an obligation legally to hold off.”


I do not get why people think they are special and an exception to the stay at home orders. We all have to do what we are asked to do to save lives, whether we agree or not, and whether it erodes our income or not. Personally, I am not on board with the broad stay-at-home orders but I am complying and closed my office because it is the right thing to do.

Found this, it was dated March 28:

At the time of publishing, the National Association of Realtors, which is America’s largest trade association representing 1.4 million members, said that the following states have deemed “real estate” to be an essential service, business or operation pursuant to the state’s executive orders: Arizona, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Maine, Minnesota, Mississippi, New Mexico, Nevada, Ohio, Oklahoma, Wisconsin and West Virginia.

This is the complete article:

Do real estate agents provide an essential service?

With more governments implementing stay-at-home orders, Realtors are having to redefine how they do business, as they find ways to meet with clients and also maintain the health and safety of all parties involved.

www.housingwire.com

 

[isisdave]

But 7am is probably when the store is best stocked and the cleanest it will be all day.

Yes, this is it exactly. And even if there are 200 seniors outside of a big box store, they'll all get in when it opens, and most will be gone by the time the general public, many of whom have higher exposure risks, enter.

You would have a hard time throwing everyone else out to start senior time any later than opening. Most stores don't have them every day.

 

[TravelTime]

Found this, it was dated March 28:

At the time of publishing, the National Association of Realtors, which is America’s largest trade association representing 1.4 million members, said that the following states have deemed “real estate” to be an essential service, business or operation pursuant to the state’s executive orders: Arizona, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Maine, Minnesota, Mississippi, New Mexico, Nevada, Ohio, Oklahoma, Wisconsin and West Virginia.

This is the complete article:

Do real estate agents provide an essential service?

With more governments implementing stay-at-home orders, Realtors are having to redefine how they do business, as they find ways to meet with clients and also maintain the health and safety of all parties involved.

www.housingwire.com

This depends on whether there are Shelter in Place orders. SIP orders take precedent over what NAR says. And NAR says you need to follow SIP orders.

Shelter-in-Place Guidance During COVID-19

In an effort to prevent the continued spread of, and exposure to, COVID-19, a growing number of states, cities and counties have issued “shelter-in-place” orders, sometimes referred to as “stay at home” orders, requiring citizens to stay at home and discontinue all non-essential outings.

www.nar.realtor

How do Shelter-in-Place Orders affect real estate business?
It depends. If real estate services are considered an essential service under the order, REALTORS® may be able to continue to conduct real estate business, which is the case in several states, like Illinois, Wisconsin and Connecticut, where real estate services are considered an “essential service” in the state’s shelter-in-place order. However, this is not always the case. Several states, including New York, Pennsylvania, and Vermont, do not consider real estate to be an essential service, thereby limiting the continued conduct of real estate activities to actions that may be accomplished remotely. Keep in mind that even where real estate services are deemed “essential”, it may not be business as usual – many states require telework or remote work whenever possible and prohibit gatherings of more than 10 people, including in office spaces. REALTORS® should endeavor to conduct as much work as possible remotely, and follow the Center for Disease Control’s (CDC) recommendations(link is external) for preventing spread of, and exposure to, COVID-19.

 

[TravelTime]

If I can‘t work, and I am in Health care, then why should realtors work? I think people are being awfully selfish! When it affects your income, then suddenly it is an essential service. People are inconsistent and selfish during this time when we are being asked to care about others.

 

[isisdave]

How can housing not be essential? People need places to live, owners convert rentals to housing for their extended family, people lose jobs and have to move in with parents, people get new jobs and transfers. I'm in SoCal and while there are no open houses, agents are still showing homes by appointment. In ones that are still occupied, owners turn on the lights and open all the doors so you don't have to touch anything. And of course, many are already vacant.

 

[VacationForever]

Interesting question on what is essential vs. what is not. I am an online shopaholic by nature and I continue to order all sorts of stuff online through Amazon, Costco, Golf Warehouse, Walmart, Target etc. I have only looked from my perspective that I am staying at home and doing my part in social distancing. I know business owners and shareholders appreciate having more online business during the current SIP. I would assume that the backend employees and contractors would practise social distancing while fulfilling orders and appreciate that they continue to work the hours(?). It should be easier to have social distancing in the warehouse than in a brick and mortar where the latter includes exposure to customers.

 

[TravelTime]

The main reason that selling a home or renting a home is needed is for income. With so many businesses being shut down and losing income, it seems so selfish to continue an open business for what are rationally non essential businesses. It frustrates me to not end how inconsistent people are now.

 

[TravelTime]

How can housing not be essential? People need places to live, owners convert rentals to housing for their extended family, people lose jobs and have to move in with parents, people get new jobs and transfers. I'm in SoCal and while there are no open houses, agents are still showing homes by appointment. In ones that are still occupied, owners turn on the lights and open all the doors so you don't have to touch anything. And of course, many are already vacant.

I think there are specific circumstances when housing is essential. But if the main reason is you will lose income, then I can‘t see how that is essential. Like I said, I am in healthcare and I am losing income. My business is certainly more essential than real estate or Home Depot yet I have been asked to shut down. My business saves lives in ordinary times yet we are closed and working remotely. I have no problem with real estate working remotely. I am just saying that having in person open houses and doing any other in person business is negligent right now. If you can rent or sell a house through virtual services, then I am all for you. Do it! That is fine and you are being responsible.

 

[VacationForever]

If I can‘t work, and I am in Health care, then why should realtors work? I think people are being awfully selfish! When it affects your income, then suddenly it is an essential service. People are inconsistent and selfish during this time when we are being asked to care about others.

What sort of health care are you in? I know that Department Of Labor has clarified a number of health care-related jobs as essential and if the workers decide not to show up for work they are not covered under the under the Families First Coronavirus Response Act. This means that these employees are EXEMPT from the law's paid sick leave and extended FMLA leave requirements.

 

[TravelTime]

What sort of health care are you in? I know that Department Of Labor has clarified a number of health care-related jobs as essential and if the workers decide not to show up for work they are not covered under the under the Families First Coronavirus Response Act. This means that these employees are EXEMPT from the law's paid sick leave and extended FMLA leave requirements.

We are not ethically allowed to offer in person services right now. It is against our ethical guidelines. In my many industry groups, almost everyone is only offering telehealth right now. And even if we were, my employees have said they will not work in person. They said they will not return to work, even if Shelter in Place is lifted. They are scared for their lives and their families. We are able to offer remote services but many clients do not want video services so our business has declined significantly. New calls for services have fallen off the map. I will need to study the Families First Coronavirus Act since my employees have decided they do not want to work. Thanks for sharing this information. I had not heard that if employees do not want to work, then we are exempt.

 

[Luanne]

This depends on whether there are Shelter in Place orders. SIP orders take precedent over what NAR says. And NAR says you need to follow SIP orders.

Shelter-in-Place Guidance During COVID-19

In an effort to prevent the continued spread of, and exposure to, COVID-19, a growing number of states, cities and counties have issued “shelter-in-place” orders, sometimes referred to as “stay at home” orders, requiring citizens to stay at home and discontinue all non-essential outings.

www.nar.realtor

How do Shelter-in-Place Orders affect real estate business?
It depends. If real estate services are considered an essential service under the order, REALTORS® may be able to continue to conduct real estate business, which is the case in several states, like Illinois, Wisconsin and Connecticut, where real estate services are considered an “essential service” in the state’s shelter-in-place order. However, this is not always the case. Several states, including New York, Pennsylvania, and Vermont, do not consider real estate to be an essential service, thereby limiting the continued conduct of real estate activities to actions that may be accomplished remotely. Keep in mind that even where real estate services are deemed “essential”, it may not be business as usual – many states require telework or remote work whenever possible and prohibit gatherings of more than 10 people, including in office spaces. REALTORS® should endeavor to conduct as much work as possible remotely, and follow the Center for Disease Control’s (CDC) recommendations(link is external) for preventing spread of, and exposure to, COVID-19.

In New Mexico we have a stay at home (is that the same as shelter in place?) order. I believe that whoever is issuing these orders, be it the governor of the state, or the mayor, they are the ones who decide which businesses are essential. I know that some businesses that were open when our initial stay at home order went into effect have since had to close down. Per the article I posted New Mexico had deemed real estate to be essential.

 

[TravelTime]

In New Mexico we have a stay at home (is that the same as shelter in place?) order. I believe that whoever is issuing these orders, be it the governor of the state, or the mayor, they are the ones who decide which businesses are essential. I know that some businesses that were open when our initial stay at home order went into effect have since had to close down. Per the article I posted New Mexico had deemed real estate to be essential.

Yes, every state can decide. In California, real estate in non essential. I am surprised that any state would consider real estate essential. In the end, this is a moral and ethical question that every business needs to make for themselves. Even if the state says it is essential, I think people need to look inward and make an ethical decision. Many companies that are deemed essential are still making ethical decisions and being more careful than the states allow. For example, my DH works at Apple. They told all employees to work from home one week before California issued its Shelter in Place order. Apple closed all its stores before it was mandated. To me, this is responsible business. Anyone selling houses now, that are not needed, are being irresponsible, IMHO.

 

[rickandcindy23]

This is not meant to be critical because Home Depot is open so I do not blame you for shopping for needed items for remodeling. But selling or renting a townhouse is not an essential activity. Right now, all real estate open houses are shut down in California. It is not considered essential. This is no different than business shut downs. I could argue that keeping my business open is essential because it is essential to me but that is not how it works. The government decides. And we also need to be respectful of other people and the risk that we are exposing them to. While I have been critical of all the mass business shutdowns, I am still doing my part to stay home and have closed my office because I could not live with the guilt I would feel if I put my needs above others and someone got sick as a result.

The townhouse is not likely to be done until 6/1, and I am hoping life goes back to normal by then. Could be wishful thinking. Rick is replacing the fireplace, all three of the bathrooms need tile on the walls and floors, new vanities, new kitchen cabinets, and of course I have him adding a nice laundry area to the basement with the old cabinets. The exterior paint of the townhouse has to be fixed because the painters our management company hired did a terrible job.

I told him to order his stuff online and have it delivered. With paint, we still need to look at colors and even get some computer matching done at Northside Paint, our local Bejamin Moore dealer. Lots of things he can order online at Home Depot and have them delivered to the townhouse directly. That way, I don't have to schlep drywall. It is hard to do that stuff at 65.

I do understand people wanting to get bedding plants started. I am in that frame of mind right now. It's important.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Here where I live there are 4 new homes being built. Construction is considered essential and I agree.

Me too. A dear friend has a son-in-law in construction, and they are moving ahead on some big projects because the weather is right. Those guys keep their distance from each other.

 

[VacationForever]

We are not ethically allowed to offer in person services right now. It is against our ethical guidelines. In my many industry groups, almost everyone is only offering telehealth right now. And even if we were, my employees have said they will not work in person. They said they will not return to work, even if Shelter in Place is lifted. They are scared for their lives and their families. We are able to offer remote services but many clients do not want video services so our business has declined significantly. New calls for services have fallen off the map. I will need to study the Families First Coronavirus Act since my employees have decided they do not want to work. Thanks for sharing this information. I had not heard that if employees do not want to work, then we are exempt.

BTW, what I have shared came from my former corporate attorney who specializes in health care industry.

 

[geekette]

How can housing not be essential? People need places to live, owners convert rentals to housing for their extended family, people lose jobs and have to move in with parents, people get new jobs and transfers. I'm in SoCal and while there are no open houses, agents are still showing homes by appointment. In ones that are still occupied, owners turn on the lights and open all the doors so you don't have to touch anything. And of course, many are already vacant.

It's also tornado season. Entire homes can be eliminated. There were trees falling on homes from the windstorm last weekend. Soon hurricane season will be upon us.

Not every place with orders are Shelter in Place. We don't have that, I am not told to cower at home. We have a travel advisory. Travel not recommended and we may fine you if you are out, except for essential products or services. If I need a place to live, someone has to help me, I can't just bust down a door and take up residence. If I had my parents and my college student and other children with me, and someone got sick, I'd probably want to move the healthy of us to an apartment or rental home.

Not all real estate transactions are for profit purposes. Sometimes people actually need a place to live.

But if I had a vacant rental house and racked up 50k in ICU bills, I would absolutely sell that house. Because I would need the money. And that's ok with my state, so why would it be a problem for anyone else?

 

[melissy123]

DH and I had to go to Home Depot to buy a replacement toilet for one that just started leaking. DH said it was probably just the seal but we had never liked this toilet. Ordered online to pick up in store. I used a bandana as a mask. Still had to go in store to sign for the purchase ( used a new plastic bag to hold the pen) and to have it put on a cart. DH stayed in the car (higher risk group) and brought the car to the loading area. I had to “remind“ two people to back off when they came too close behind me at customer service desk. Lots of people roaming around without observing any distancing. DH was watching people from the car and he observed people in the gardening department go about like it was any other day.

 

[TravelTime]

Real Estate
Washington Post
With hand sanitizer and elbow bumps, real estate agents are still selling during pandemic

Rob Wittman is astonished that in a time of social distancing, real estate agents are holding open houses, allowing inspections and closing sales.

“It’s just bothering me — the cavalierness of the agents around me,” said Wittman, a real estate agent who planned to open his own brokerage, NextHome Reach, in early March but instead is sheltering in place because of the coronavirus outbreak. “There are too many [real estate agents] to count bragging about touring houses, their lame protective gear, or their prowess for sales during this crisis.”

Normally, spring is the busiest time of the year for the housing market, with buyers coming out in droves.

Now, as nonessential businesses are shuttering to wait out the pandemic, some real estate professionals are carrying on as usual — albeit with masks, gloves and hand sanitizer. Agents were holding open houses until they were prohibited by local officials. Nearly 200 open houses were listed last weekend and more than 600 open houses the week before in the D.C. region on the area’s multiple listing service. Mayor Muriel E. Bower (D) banned open houses as of Saturday; Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan (R) and Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam (D) forbid them as of Monday....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/realestate/with-hand-sanitizer-and-elbow-bumps-realty-agents-are-still-selling-during-pandemic/2020/03/30/50bae962-7074-11ea-b148-e4ce3fbd85b5_story.html

 

[IngridN]

Construction and gardening are not considered essential in CA. Construction was until a few days ago. The only construction now allowed is for safety maintenance and getting ongoing home and commercial construction to a point where it can be safely shut down. The problem is the healthcare system is seeing more and more COVID-19 positive gardeners and construction workers. It's not just the 'well they work by themselves and aren't close to me so what's the problem...they're essential'. NO they are not.

Edit to add: They interact with so many other people during the course of the day, suppliers, getting gas, driving in together, on and on.

Ingrid

 

[Luanne]

Construction and gardening are not considered essential in CA. Construction was until a few days ago. The only construction now allowed is for safety maintenance and getting ongoing home and commercial construction to a point where it can be safely shut down. The problem is the healthcare system is seeing more and more COVID-19 positive gardeners and construction workers. It's not just the 'well they work by themselves and aren't close to me so what's the problem...they're essential'. NO they are not.

Ingrid

But if you have a garden you can feed yourself without having to leave the house. Are they saying gardening services are not essential? Or that people can't even have a garden?

 

[Panina]

The more businesses considered essential when they are not, the more exposed people and spreading occurring and the longer this nightmare will continue. I rather be totally restricted for weeks then for this to continue on and on.

 

[IngridN]

But if you have a garden you can feed yourself without having to leave the house. Are they saying gardening services are not essential? Or that people can't even have a garden?

It's the gardening services that are not allowed. A homeowner can garden to the hearts content! Our landscaping project got shut down because landscapers are not essential. Both gardening services and landscaping services were considered non-essential from day one. Fortunately, we were are the tail end. However, a couple of the plants are dying because they are new to me and I don't know how to care for them. They are either getting too much or too little water and/or sun. If these services are needed for safety and/or health reasons, they are allowed. Example would be pest control is an essential service. Some people on Nextdoor are insisting gardening services are essential because they do brush control. Or more commonly, the 'they work outside and don't come near me, so what's the problem'. Do it yourself or let your garden go au naturelle until this is over! This week is the first week one of our neighbors' gardeners did not show up. Another one is there every week as are many others in the neighborhood.

 

[Luanne]

It's the gardening services that are not allowed. A homeowner can garden to the hearts content! Our landscaping project got shut down because landscapers are not essential. Both gardening services and landscaping services were considered non-essential from day one. Fortunately, we were are the tail end. However, a couple of the plants are dying because they are new to me and I don't know how to care for them. They are either getting too much or too little water and/or sun. If these services are needed for safety and/or health reasons, they are allowed. Example would be pest control is an essential service. Some people on Nextdoor are insisting gardening services are essential because they do brush control. Or more commonly, the 'they work outside and don't come near me, so what's the problem'. Do it yourself or let your garden go au naturelle until this is over! This week is the first week one of our neighbors' gardeners did not show up. Another one is there every week as are many others in the neighborhood.

I think so many of these things can be touch and go. For example over the past few years we've had to have a tree service come in and trim back, or remove, trees as they were diseased. If the trees hadn't been taken care of I'm not sure what the consequences would have been. We have services with people who come out and service our septic. People who start up the swamp coolers for the season. I wonder how many of these are now considered essential, or not essential. I guess we'll find out when we need to call them for servicing.

 

[IngridN]

I think so many of these things can be touch and go. For example over the past few years we've had to have a tree service come in and trim back, or remove, trees as they were diseased. If the trees hadn't been taken care of I'm not sure what the consequences would have been. We have services with people who come out and service our septic. People who start up the swamp coolers for the season. I wonder how many of these are now considered essential, or not essential. I guess we'll find out when we need to call them for servicing.

Tree trimming was brought up...maintenance type activity is prohibited, but emergency services (branch ready to fall on house, tree likely to come down if not taken out immediately) are allowed. Pool services, no; septic, I'm not sure. You should check with your state's/local juristiction's to see what's allowed and what isn't.

 

[TravelTime]

Our gardener and pool service are still coming. I guess they want the income. They are automatic so I do not ask them to come. They are just showing up. The cleaning service at my office has not come for 2 weeks. I need to call the cleaning service and find out why. I am still paying a lot for cleaning and getting no service.