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[ 2017 ] How to compare point systems?

Sandy VDH said:
for HGVC I see that others used the standard points chart for a Platinum week, without any additional views etc.
Click to expand...

I see now that the chart has "average number of points for 2 Bd". I think we are still comparing the high season which for Hilton that is platinum (there isn't another "higher" rate). The current value listed (7000 points) isn't an average for 2 Bd. It really is the regular/standard amount. For example, at Ocean Oaks (new HGVC property on Hilton Head Island), we have 7000 points standard 2 Bd, 8400 points for Ocean View (plus) and 9600 points for Ocean Front (premier). These are all platinum weeks (or summer weeks in this case). If we are still trying to compare "apples to apples" between the various TS systems, is this still good? I think that the MFs for Hilton are still good either way.
 
GT75 said:
I see now that the chart has "average number of points for 2 Bd". I think we are still comparing the high season which for Hilton that is platinum (there isn't another "higher" rate). The current value listed (7000 points) isn't an average for 2 Bd. It really is the regular/standard amount. For example, at Ocean Oaks (new HGVC property on Hilton Head Island), we have 7000 points standard 2 Bd, 8400 points for Ocean View (plus) and 9600 points for Ocean Front (premier). These are all platinum weeks (or summer weeks in this case). If we are still trying to compare "apples to apples" between the various TS systems, is this still good? I think that the MFs for Hilton are still good either way.
Click to expand...

I know, I suggested using the average highest season entry level 2 BR. Not adding view or other consideration. That would make 7000 for HGVC not really average, it likely should be slightly higher, but there are far more resorts at the standard point level and only 4 resorts (or towers) that are higher points, but at every location there is a 7000 point option. So I think that is OK. I know when I picked average for both Wyndham and Holiday Inn, I went and looked at the vast majority 2 BRs over all the resorts. HGVC is a much for consistent point structure over almost all of its resorts. That is not the case for many other systems.
 
GT75 said:
I see now that the chart has "average number of points for 2 Bd". I think we are still comparing the high season which for Hilton that is platinum (there isn't another "higher" rate). The current value listed (7000 points) isn't an average for 2 Bd. It really is the regular/standard amount. For example, at Ocean Oaks (new HGVC property on Hilton Head Island), we have 7000 points standard 2 Bd, 8400 points for Ocean View (plus) and 9600 points for Ocean Front (premier). These are all platinum weeks (or summer weeks in this case). If we are still trying to compare "apples to apples" between the various TS systems, is this still good? I think that the MFs for Hilton are still good either way.
Click to expand...
I think 7000 (plus program fees) is the number to use (if that is the average for a regular, not view, not Ocean Front units) across most of the resorts. That was the standard used for the WorldMark and Wyndham numbers. So, it is apples-to-apples with those two systems, at least.
 
Sandy VDH said:
I know, I suggested using the average highest season entry level 2 BR.
Click to expand...

CO skier said:
I think 7000 (plus program fees) is the number to use (if that is the average for a regular, not view, not Ocean Front units) across most of the resorts.
Click to expand...

OK, great. I agree. 7000 points is the number that I would recommend for any looking for entry level 2 Bd in Hilton system.

I do think that the table is great because I don't understand any of the other systems. I know that this doesn't and wouldn't completely compare each TS system, but it certainly looks like a great starting place for someone looking to get an idea before purchasing their first TS. I know that I would have loved to have seen this before my first purchase.
 
I would add a foot note to the chart stating that points from different systems have different values and cannot be directly compared, because that is going to be one of the most confusing things for newbies.
 
GT75 said:
I see now that the chart has "average number of points for 2 Bd". I think we are still comparing the high season which for Hilton that is platinum (there isn't another "higher" rate).
Click to expand...
I think the chart description was supposed to change to "Average (2br Summer Season) maintenance fees" and "Average points for 2 bd in Summer Season" with the 2 bd defined as "normal/midlevel/standard/whatever".

ref. Post #128 on page 6
 
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I dont see any advice articles that discuss that, but thats not to say one doesnt exist somewhere! it might be a forum post?
 
is most of that even still current? I see many of the first few posts havent been touched since 2008!
 
TUGBrian said:
is most of that even still current? I see many of the first few posts havent been touched since 2008!
Click to expand...

Perhaps you're right; as a whole, the thread is old which might confuse the new member. But there are a few gems in the bunch.
 
ill add it to the list of things to get updated!
 
TUGBrian said:
I think it was simply a comparison of the major players at the time... it generated this chart (which will be replace by this new chart)

http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/hotel_based_timeshare_comparison.html

(note i went ahead and updated the redirect to point to the new chart as most of the data in that old chart is long outdated)
Click to expand...

I noticed the Average (2br) Maint Fees for Wyndham changed from $1150 to $1440 and Worldmark from $1k to $1,130 from when it was originally posted 4 1/2 years ago. Did Wyndham really increase by 25% over that time, while Worldmark only increased by 13%? What about fee increases for the other Timeshare systems? We are no longer comparing apples to apples.
 
1440 seems high to me for an average of wyndham 2br...but if that is the current value im happy to update the chart.
 
TUGBrian said:
1440 seems high to me for an average of wyndham 2br...but if that is the current value im happy to update the chart.
Click to expand...

The problem is average. There are old resorts where 154K is the points required and those MF are about $1150 faverage MF folks. But some have higher MFs per Point and some resorts may require more than double that for a 2 BR in prime season, could be double that price above.

So average is relative.

I know I argued with WM folks who wanted to make 10K the average for 2 BR in the highest season, but that ignores that fact that the new TX resorts all require at least 12.5K to 15K for the same size unit. I think some had an agenda to make their ownership look like a better choice. To me it is what it is.
 
Sounds maybe semi-plausible for Wyndham. The median UDI deed in 2021 is $6.69/K including the "average" program fee of 0.63. The next question is how many points does the "average" 2BR cost? In peak season, it's probably fair to say that it is north of 200K, which would put you in the right ballpark (about 213K). If instead you are considering the average year round, that's probably too high.

But, I also suspect that one or both numbers ($1150 and $1440) were made up. They were almost certainly computed in different ways. The median UDI deed in 2018 (3-4 years ago) was $6.16, or only about 10% less than the current median. The median for 2017 is higher, but that's because there were more values in that column. But I have a hard time believing the same set of resorts was so much lower that you'd get down to $5.35, which is what you'd have to get to get the math in that comparison table to work out.

Even CWA, which seems to have gone up faster than the typical UDI or converted fixed week only went from $6.16/K in 2017 to $7.24 this year, or an increase of 17.5% in that time.
 
well, id consider an average to be somewhere in the reasonable middle of two extremes.

Im not sure that using "peak season" is a good measure of an average, as it by its own nature is "above average" unless peak season for most resorts is more than 6 months a year.
 
Ultimately, I don't think it matters. IMO, the best reason to buy one mini-system over another is that one has the set of resorts you are most interested in, and the cost of doing business is something you are comfortable with. The costs of Wyndham are so variable (individual $/K ratios can vary by factors of two or more) that averages aren't that interesting.
 
bnoble said:
he median UDI deed in 2021 is $6.69/K including the "average" program fee of 0.63.
Click to expand...
I got this wrong, because that column included some full-week numbers. The median is more like $6.20ish for 2021. The table also claims an average 2BR week is 190K points. At that point, the $1440 number is just wrong---it should be more like $1200. I suspect they were using CWA $/K which is on the high side.
 
bnoble said:
In peak season, it's probably fair to say that it is north of 200K, which would put you in the right ballpark (about 213K). If instead you are considering the average year round, that's probably too high.
Click to expand...
There was a discussion about this back on pages 5 and 6.

When would most new owners want to vacation? Summer season, which is peak season in every system and provides a direct, apples-to-apples comparison of what a new owner could expect to pay in maintenance fees. "Absolute peak" holiday weeks were not considered, because not every system makes a distinction between holiday weeks in the peak/red/high season.
 
bnoble said:
But, I also suspect that one or both numbers ($1150 and $1440) were made up. They were almost certainly computed in different ways. The median UDI deed in 2018 (3-4 years ago) was $6.16, or only about 10% less than the current median. The median for 2017 is higher, but that's because there were more values in that column. But I have a hard time believing the same set of resorts was so much lower that you'd get down to $5.35, which is what you'd have to get to get the math in that comparison table to work out.

Even CWA, which seems to have gone up faster than the typical UDI or converted fixed week only went from $6.16/K in 2017 to $7.24 this year, or an increase of 17.5% in that time.
Click to expand...
There is also the consideration of what is there to buy? Is what is available to buy closer to $1200/190k points or $1440/190k points. CWA would be the most common deed available, and it is what the developer predominantly sells.

Maybe do what the pollsters do - an average of averages, or $1320/190k.

A sampling of what recently sold on Ebay:

Wyndham Glacier Canyon 189,000 MF $1506

https://www.ebay.com/itm/224675940286?hash=item344fbac7be:g:dgkAAOSwCRdhhAfA



Wyndham Bonnet Creek 500,000 MF $3581 equivalent to $1360 per 190k

https://www.ebay.com/itm/313725390489?hash=item490b7d8e99:g:e-4AAOSwZTJa63wt



Club Wyndham Access 205,000 MF $1490 equivalent to $1380 per 190k

https://www.ebay.com/itm/313725390489?hash=item490b7d8e99:g:e-4AAOSwZTJa63wt



Wyndham Sedona 154,000 MF $1014 equivalent to $1251 per 190k

https://www.ebay.com/itm/255208354759?hash=item3b6b9a73c7:g:lyAAAOSwtWhhDWLv
 
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