[2017] Just Joined Marriott Vacation Club - Was it a good choice?

[JIMinNC]

As I noted in post #43 the simplest way to work the MVC system is to find a seasoned owner at the Chairman level who can reserve 13+ months out. Then you would benefit from their benefits. They would do the work. You wouldn't be limited to just the resorts they own but to their membership in the DC. If you wanted to plan for a 13 month reservation you let them know in advance. If you want to wait until last minute you have the same risks as they do.

We've taken many friends to MVC properties because we consider these our roaming cottage. They've been honest to say they enjoyed the trip but they're not into limiting their vacations to one supplier (Marriott). I can understand that completely. I'm not in the business of selling timeshares and will be glad to reserve them anything I can if they ask. One couple is visiting Ocean Pointe in March for a 50th birthday and another in June for an anniversary. Another will be going us at Grande Ocean in just a couple weeks. They have no year to year commitment to get any benefits I passed on to them.

There might be lots of flexibility in MVC but many (many, many) times it just doesn't take you to the spot you want to go. Then, no matter how many points you own or whatever level you're at, you're back to that same square one looking for a room from another supplier.

Good point, and I agree, using a Chairman's Club owner who could book anything you want with their points and establishing a relationship with that person would come the closest to replicating the same flexibility I get as an owner. But what happens if my plans change? In most cases with owner rentals, pre-payment is required, so if something causes me to have to change my plans I'm probably SOL. Maybe there are travel insurance programs that would cover owner rentals, but those usually have fairly restrictive rules about why I'm canceling. If it was for a situation like last summer where we canceled a trip to Maui because our teenage daughter didn't want to go on a trip where she couldn't bring a friend, that wouldn't be covered by insurance I suspect. The other downside is, sometimes I don't have specific dates that I need to travel, and it's much more convenient to be able to just go online onto the DC Points website and shop around for what's available and play around with options. It's much harder to do that when having to work through an intermediary of another owner who does the searching for you.

In the end, I guess it also has a lot to do with control. With an owner rental, that person still ultimately makes and controls the reservation, and for whatever reason, I prefer to control my own reservations, eliminate middlemen, and deal as close to the ultimate source as possible. The issues of trust, one-stop-shop, etc., may be just manifestations of the fact that I want to have as much control over my own reservations and the reservation experience as I can, even if it costs more to do so. That may also be why I will always, whenever possible, book online vs. using a call center - whether its timeshares, hotels, airlines, rental cars, sports or concert tickets, or anything else - I can see all the choices myself with my own eyes and pick the ones I want without running them through the filter of another person's eyes. I'm in control. I don't think I'm as bad as the "Control Freak" guy in the National Car Rental commercials, but I get his point!

And when MVC doesn't have what I need, I'm sure marriott.com, hilton.com, westin.com, or any of the other multitude of travel web sites will. I know where MVC can take me, so if I want to go somewhere that I know MVC can't (or if I don't need MVC-type accommodations for that trip), I'll first go to somewhere like orbitz.com where I can search all brands. When I find something that looks interesting, I'll probably then go direct to that brand's web site to book it. Same for airline tickets - check orbitz.com to see who has the cheapest fares, and then go to that airline's site to book.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

I'll first go to somewhere like orbitz.com where I can search all brands. When I find something that looks interesting, I'll probably then go direct to that brand's web site to book it.

For airline tickets it's almost always cheaper to book at the source. The airlines pay pennies in commission so the search sites will have a fee buried in the cost of the ticket under taxes and fees. The one drawback is sometimes you have to go to two sites to book two one-way tickets for a round trip if you want the cheapest price possible.

 

[BocaBoy]

Golden did such a good job running the numbers and talking the talk that it was reasonable to question if he was a salesperson.

That is really a bogus rationale for questioning if he was a salesperson. The same thing happened to me right after the DC was introduced and I started posting. You are really saying if a new poster sounds intelligent and is not slamming MVCI at every turn he/she is a salesman. It is possible for someone to come here already pretty knowledgeable about the system. TUG is not the only place to learn. I know that from personal experience. And to me the OP's highly analytical posts in this thread did not sound at all like the analysis of a salesperson.

 

[Quilter]

My response is embedded. I don't know how to change colors with new system

Good point, and I agree ...

Thanks

But what happens if my plans change? In most cases with owner rentals, pre-payment is required, so if something causes me to have to change my plans I'm probably SOL...

You use some of the $30k that you saved to find something else. Or...you share the risk with the owner and try to find a suitable replacement. You would have a similar risk with your own ownership.

If it was for a situation like last summer where we canceled a trip to Maui because our teenage daughter didn't want to go on a trip where she couldn't bring a friend, that wouldn't be covered by insurance I suspect...

Ah yes, teenagers moods and plans should be insurable.

The other downside is, sometimes I don't have specific dates that I need to travel, and it's much more convenient to be able to just go online onto the DC Points website and shop around for what's available and play around with options. It's much harder to do that when having to work through an intermediary of another owner who does the searching for you...

With 7 weeks and possibly 10-20K points a year I obviously agree with you.

In the end, I guess it also has a lot to do with control.

My point was directed specifically to the person who wants the simplest way to benefit from the MVC system.

 

[Quilter]

That is really a bogus rationale for questioning if he was a salesperson.

Oh I don't think it's bogus at all. I can't speak for others but I intended no malice with my "wonderings". I simply posted honest thoughts based on a conditioning from other situations.

I often wonder how many "new To MVC" posters actually read the legal document they signed. Few come to TUG with the ability to converse in fluent timeshare.

 

[Quilter]

I'm lost on the new screen name and avatar. Does this have any significance?

VIKE
Acronym Definition
VIKE Visualizing Information in Knowledge Engineering (workshop)

 

[Fasttr]

I'm lost on the new screen name and avatar. Does this have any significance?

VIKE
Acronym Definition
VIKE Visualizing Information in Knowledge Engineering (workshop)

A total shot in the dark guess....but judging from the Minnesota Vikings style logo for his avatar, I am guessing its a cross between his collegiate allegiance.... the Minnesota Golden Gophers, and his favorite NFL team, the Minnesota Vikings.

 

[BocaBoy]

Oh I don't think it's bogus at all. I can't speak for others but I intended no malice with my "wonderings". I simply posted honest thoughts based on a conditioning from other situations.

I am sure it was your "honest thoughts", but having been on the receiving end of this type of uninformed accusation, I find it EXTREMELY offensive. "Conditioning from other situations"? Really? In the years I have been on TUG, the vast majority of such accusations have proved to be unfounded. It seems to be an all too frequent knee jerk reaction to a knowledgeable new poster who is not slamming Marriott. TUGGERs do not have a monopoly on knowledge.

 

[BocaBoy]

I often wonder how many "new To MVC" posters actually read the legal document they signed. Few come to TUG with the ability to converse in fluent timeshare.

Only a small percentage of TUG members have read the legal document either.

 

[SueDonJ]

I'm with Jim and Boca - it makes no sense to me that knowledgeable newcomers to TUG are greeted with suspicion and outright accusations of having ulterior motives but it happens all the time. The first volleys are always "ah-OOH-gah salesman on deck!" but it doesn't begin and end there. The worst criticisms I've taken from fellow TUGgers have happened when I've tried to help others find and understand info in their ownership documents, especially when that info is advantageous to Marriott. If somebody shares how to exploit every loophole - legal and not so much - that exists with Marriott ownership, TUGgers will credit the poster with being the best ever. But posters who give equal time to Marriott's rights to close those loopholes are boo-ed from the balcony.

Of course all-or-nothing is exaggeration but the above is true more often than not. (And Beef? I'd be a sham of a seamstress if $40,000 could fall out of my pockets.)

 

[Hi I'm new here]

I understand why a knowledgeable newbie is under suspicion for one reason and I will be blunt. I cannot fathom that there is still a market for timeshare purchases that involve shelling out massive sums of money initially and then shelling out thousands per year in maintenance fees. All this to buy something that will NOT hold value, the yearly fees are too high.

I wish the OP the best and he has been a good sport listening to all the admonition. Thanks for listening.

 

[GoldenVIKE]

I understand why a knowledgeable newbie is under suspicion for one reason and I will be blunt. I cannot fathom that there is still a market for timeshare purchases that involve shelling out massive sums of money initially and then shelling out thousands per year in maintenance fees. All this to buy something that will NOT hold value, the yearly fees are too high.

I wish the OP the best and he has been a good sport listening to all the admonition. Thanks for listening.

Actually this hits on part of my motivation for posting. I am going into MVCI under an assumption that if we want out, we likely won't get much if anything back. After broker fees etc you're probably looking at $2-$4 per point to sell. Most people look at an investment as something that they can buy today and sell in the future at a gain. That's not the only type of investment though. For example, paying off a loan is an "investment" which as a return equal to the interest rate on the loan. Buying nice work clothes is an "investment" that pays off in terms of your professional image and all of the benefits that follow from that. For TS, the investment is the points but the return is the perpetual difference in cost between annual MFs and the trips you get to take. Even if the value of a point falls to $0, so long as there's still a delta between annual MF and your trip value, this investment can be pretty solid over time (perhaps as little as 3-10 years depending on where you want to peg some of those variables in my initial post). That's just the financial aspect of it. As someone who has owned lake properties and boats, only to use them less than you should and then move away and have to sell them, I view MVCI as a sort of "floating beach house" that only cost $50k and now I never have to worry about the hassle of maintaining, selling, or keeping up to date. Even the annual MFs aren't any worse than annual property taxes would be on a cabin, let alone all the other maintenance. In any event, while I respect the many differing viewpoints on this, to me the points TS thing is a godsend in terms of modest financial payoff, but huge payoff in fun, flexibility, and ease of use. At least that's what I hope we've signed up for! Ask me again in a few years and hopefully I'll be singing at least a similar tune! Haha.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Actually this hits on part of my motivation for posting. I am going into MVCI under an assumption that if we want out, we likely won't get much if anything back. After broker fees etc you're probably looking at $2-$4 per point to sell. Most people look at an investment as something that they can buy today and sell in the future at a gain. That's not the only type of investment though. For example, paying off a loan is an "investment" which as a return equal to the interest rate on the loan. Buying nice work clothes is an "investment" that pays off in terms of your professional image and all of the benefits that follow from that. For TS, the investment is the points but the return is the perpetual difference in cost between annual MFs and the trips you get to take. Even if the value of a point falls to $0, so long as there's still a delta between annual MF and your trip value, this investment can be pretty solid over time (perhaps as little as 3-10 years depending on where you want to peg some of those variables in my initial post). That's just the financial aspect of it. As someone who has owned lake properties and boats, only to use them less than you should and then move away and have to sell them, I view MVCI as a sort of "floating beach house" that only cost $50k and now I never have to worry about the hassle of maintaining, selling, or keeping up to date. Even the annual MFs aren't any worse than annual property taxes would be on a cabin, let alone all the other maintenance. In any event, while I respect the many differing viewpoints on this, to me the points TS thing is a godsend in terms of modest financial payoff, but huge payoff in fun, flexibility, and ease of use. At least that's what I hope we've signed up for! Ask me again in a few years and hopefully I'll be singing at least a similar tune! Haha.

This is an excellent post!

 

[JIMinNC]

I cannot fathom that there is still a market for timeshare purchases that involve shelling out massive sums of money initially and then shelling out thousands per year in maintenance fees. All this to buy something that will NOT hold value, the yearly fees are too high.

Why is there a market? Because as GoldenVIKE explained very well, there is still value there.

In April, my wife, daughter, and two of my daughter's friends will be in Hilton Head for the week of the RBC Heritage PGA golf tournament. My wife and I will be back in Hilton Head in September. The maintenance fee cost for those two trips is about $3,300, or about $240 per night. For that cost, we'll get 14 nights in 2 bedroom oceanfront (April) or oceanside (September) condos, with full kitchens, at resorts with activities and many other hotel-like amenities. Oceanfront hotel rooms in Hilton Head at those times of the year cost more than that - one room, no kitchen. If we wanted a comparable Marriott condo, we would have to pay at least $500-$600 per night or more.

So for us - and I think for many other people - there is still a lot of value in timeshare purchases. Yes, it's more expensive than it was 10 or 20 years ago, but so are hotels. I can remember not too long ago when you could book a four or five-star oceanfront hotel room in prime time for less than $150/night.

 

[JIMinNC]

I'll add that I think the point Saintsfanfl made in post #150 about different people seeing this issue through different lenses, is the reason there are so many different thoughts on the value proposition of timeshares and timeshares vs. rentals.

For people who make $3.5 million a year like the example he used in that post, money really isn't the issue. They can afford whatever it costs, so convenience and ease are the most important than cost. They are relatively cost insensitive, so they can rent whatever hotel or condo they want for almost any reasonable price. Timeshare ownership doesn't really offer them much value.

On the other end are folks of more modest means who want to travel and can afford to, but they need to be as efficient as cost effective as possible. If that means giving up cancellation flexibility, dealing with another owner instead of a timeshare or hotel company, or other compromises to save a buck and still get great accommodations, they are willing to do that.

In the middle, are some other folks - I know we're in that category and it sounds like GoldenVIKE may be, too. For us, cost is most certainly an object - we don't have an unlimited budget, so trying to find ways to travel more cost effectively is important - but we're willing to pay a little more for the flexibility of controlling our own reservations, the ability to cancel and change with minimal hassle, book online, etc.

What may be right for me, though, may not be right for everyone.

 

[BocaBoy]

I understand why a knowledgeable newbie is under suspicion for one reason and I will be blunt. I cannot fathom that there is still a market for timeshare purchases that involve shelling out massive sums of money initially and then shelling out thousands per year in maintenance fees. All this to buy something that will NOT hold value, the yearly fees are too high.

Then you must not fathom either why there is a market for luxury cars, for boats, etc. I would personally NEVER be interested in those things but I do understand the attraction to some, just as I understand why many people, even knowledgeable people, actually choose to buy timeshares from the developer. We must be careful not to project our own values on the population at large.

 

[Fasttr]

Then you must not fathom either why there is a market for luxury cars, for boats, etc. And why would anyone ever shop at Tiffany's when another jewelry store is much cheaper? I would personally NEVER be interested in those things but I do understand the attraction to some, just as I understand why many people, even knowledgeable people, choose to buy timeshares from the developer. We must be careful not to project our own values on the population at large.

Well said.

 

[BocaBoy]

Yes, it's more expensive than it was 10 or 20 years ago, but so are hotels. I can remember not too long ago when you could book a four or five-star oceanfront hotel room in prime time for less than $150/night.

You are a lot younger than I am! When we honeymooned in Hawaii in 1973, there were only four hotels on Kaanapali Beach. We stayed at the Maui Surf (now the Westin) in an oceanfront room for $32 or $33 per night. Same with the Coco Palms on Kauai. The Royal Hawaiian was more expensive....it was $45 per night for an oceanfront room in the tower, which was also relatively new then.

 

[JIMinNC]

You are a lot younger than I am! When we honeymooned in Hawaii in 1973, there were only four hotels on Kaanapali Beach. We stayed at the Maui Surf (now the Westin) in an oceanfront room for $32 or $33 per night. Same with the Coco Palms on Kauai. The Royal Hawaiian was more expensive....it was $45 per night for an oceanfront room in the tower, which was also relatively new then.

We honeymooned in Hawaii as well, in 1992, but we married a little later than most folks, in our mid-30s. I still have our travel documents from the honeymoon for sentimental reasons, so I looked to see if I could see how much we paid. It turns out we bought a package from Pleasant Hawaiian Holidays that included hotel, convertible rental cars, three inter island flight segments, and a few other extras like luaus, etc. so the hotels aren't broken out (we used FF miles to go first class from CLT-HNL-CLT). We stayed at the Sheraton Waikiki, the Hyatt Regency Kaanapali, and the Hyatt Regency Waikoloa (now the Hilton Waikoloa). The whole package for two weeks - hotel, convertibles, inter-island flights, and luaus was just a little over $3000.

 

[BocaBoy]

We honeymooned in Hawaii as well, in 1992, but we married a little later than most folks, in our mid-30s. I still have our travel documents from the honeymoon for sentimental reasons, so I looked to see if I could see how much we paid. It turns out we bought a package from Pleasant Hawaiian Holidays that included hotel, convertible rental cars, three inter island flight segments, and a few other extras like luaus, etc. so the hotels aren't broken out (we used FF miles to go first class from CLT-HNL-CLT). We stayed at the Sheraton Waikiki, the Hyatt Regency Kaanapali, and the Hyatt Regency Waikoloa (now the Hilton Waikoloa). The whole package for two weeks - hotel, convertibles, inter-island flights, and luaus was just a little over $3000.

We spent a total of just over $2500 for a 13-night trip in 1973, which included round-trip coach airfare from ORD to Hilo and back from HNL. I remember the airfare was about $350 each, so inflation in airfares has been very modest over the years, unlike hotels and restaurants. On the outer islands we bought a meal package at the luxury hotels for $20/day ($10 each) which included a buffet breakfast and anything we wanted on the menu. I had a lot of surf and turf that week on the outer islands. Fun memories.

 

[Fasttr]

We honeymooned in Hawaii as well, in 1992, but we married a little later than most folks, in our mid-30s. I still have our travel documents from the honeymoon for sentimental reasons, so I looked to see if I could see how much we paid. It turns out we bought a package from Pleasant Hawaiian Holidays that included hotel, convertible rental cars, three inter island flight segments, and a few other extras like luaus, etc. so the hotels aren't broken out (we used FF miles to go first class from CLT-HNL-CLT). We stayed at the Sheraton Waikiki, the Hyatt Regency Kaanapali, and the Hyatt Regency Waikoloa (now the Hilton Waikoloa). The whole package for two weeks - hotel, convertibles, inter-island flights, and luaus was just a little over $3000.

We spent a total of just over $2500 for a 13-night trip in 1973, which included round-trip coach airfare from ORD to Hilo and back from HNL. I remember the airfare was about $350 each, so inflation in airfares has been very modest over the years, unlike hotels and restaurants. On the outer islands we bought a meal package at the luxury hotels for $20/day ($10 each) which included a buffet breakfast and anything we wanted on the menu. I had a lot of surf and turf that week on the outer islands. Fun memories.

Maybe GoldenVIKE is a MVC Salesman...he's got you two reminiscing so much, your next move is going to be buying a Points package so you can vacation more.

 

[Quilter]

I'm with Jim and Boca - it makes no sense to me that knowledgeable newcomers to TUG are greeted with suspicion and outright accusations of having ulterior motives but it happens all the time.

Oh this brings to mind a thread back a couple years when FT first came to TUG. Can't find threads from the old TUG with the search function or I would paste a link here.

p.s. I was away from TUG for a while and when I came back there was no SeaDoc and no FT. Did they just vanish?

 

[Quilter]

Actually this hits on part of my motivation for posting. I am going into MVCI under an assumption that if we want out, we likely won't get much if anything back. After broker fees etc you're probably looking at $2-$4 per point to sell. Most people look at an investment as something that they can buy today and sell in the future at a gain. That's not the only type of investment though. For example, paying off a loan is an "investment" which as a return equal to the interest rate on the loan. Buying nice work clothes is an "investment" that pays off in terms of your professional image and all of the benefits that follow from that. For TS, the investment is the points but the return is the perpetual difference in cost between annual MFs and the trips you get to take. Even if the value of a point falls to $0, so long as there's still a delta between annual MF and your trip value, this investment can be pretty solid over time (perhaps as little as 3-10 years depending on where you want to peg some of those variables in my initial post). That's just the financial aspect of it. As someone who has owned lake properties and boats, only to use them less than you should and then move away and have to sell them, I view MVCI as a sort of "floating beach house" that only cost $50k and now I never have to worry about the hassle of maintaining, selling, or keeping up to date. Even the annual MFs aren't any worse than annual property taxes would be on a cabin, let alone all the other maintenance. In any event, while I respect the many differing viewpoints on this, to me the points TS thing is a godsend in terms of modest financial payoff, but huge payoff in fun, flexibility, and ease of use. At least that's what I hope we've signed up for! Ask me again in a few years and hopefully I'll be singing at least a similar tune! Haha.

Yes to this.

That's why we call it our roaming cottage.

We had house in MI, condo in Chicago and the timeshares. I would have to schedule out time for the condo in Chicago to make a point of using it. We called that our "Lake House". We sold it to simplify.

With the timeshares we figured we could meet up with family all around the world. The MF's generate lots of MR points that have been turned into hotel/miles packages. I manage the timeshares and have been trying to say it takes a fair amount of time. So many choices. So many tweaks to keep up with. Every time I'm away from TUG for a while I wonder what secrets I've missed. You find the oddest helpful hint buried in a thread.

In all the posts so far have you actually said what your wish list consists of?

 

[JIMinNC]

I was away from TUG for a while and when I came back there was no SeaDoc and no FT. Did they just vanish?

SeaDoc was told by Marriott that employees were prohibited from participating in timeshare-related social media/message boards, so he bowed out a year or so ago, as I recall.

 

[Fasttr]

SeaDoc was told by Marriott that employees were prohibited from participating in timeshare-related social media/message boards, so he bowed out a year or so ago, as I recall.

But oddly enough, he posted a non rental related comment on VPE just a few weeks ago.
http://vacationpointexchange.com/po...y-3-bedroom-grande-vista-3-725-points-(2018)/