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Lowballers

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Lowballers vs fairness

This so reminds me of the "Fairness Experiment".

Two strangers are put in a room where they can't see each other. $100 in small bills is placed between them. By flip of a coin one person is allowed to take from zero to $100 from the pile. The other person has to decide to take the remainder of the money or say no to the deal. If the second person says NO, neither person gets any money.

The concept of "fairness" is strong in human psychology.
 
A rental is a business transaction. If you look at the listings both here and on redweek, there is a great disparity in the rates for any given week for similar untis at the same property. The question is...what is the rental worth?
The value of the unit is what the market will bear. I know that I wouldn't even bother inquiring of the higher priced units. Clearly the owner thinks the rental is worth more than others do.

If we are looking for a rental....it is to meet our needs. I would offer what it is worth to me or inquire as to whether the reservation could be modified in any way. I also would not offer a ridiculously low amount...
It would never be my intent to offend the owner.
If the answer is "no" that is all the owner needs to say.
 
Unless they want the unit and have to pay more than they wanted to to get it.

If they pay it then it was worth it to them. But if you go $1 more they will say "No thanks". What YOU wanted doesn't matter to them nor does what you feel it is "worth". You can guess what people will pay but only they know for sure.
 
Within a resort there are some SPECIAL views and units. I physically showed several units this week in resorts in Pompano and Ft Lauderdale. I checked in 2 guests personally as I was on site and they were VERY last minute inbounds.

I have 2 guests for 1 unit - a split reservation. Couple #1 were OKAY with the unit. It did NOT have a King bed. It was okay for 1 night. Couple #2 were happier than all-get-out. Never mentioned the bed (and 30% heavier/bigger than couple #1). Husband just about jumped over the road to go look at the view of the ocean from the unit. Called & meet up with me twice to talk to me about BUYING 2 weeks in that building from me; I have back to back weeks 52 & 1; it was the view of his dreams. And these couples spend 3-4 months in timeshares in Florida yearly. Both couples paid the SAME $120 per night. One couple loved the unit; the other tolerated it (but love the FLBR).

I also showed 4-5 units in two different resorts to different possible tenants. One guy looked at FLBR and did not find it acceptable. Another couple at FLBR were happier than dirt. One guy liked the Santa Barbara 1bdr, but wanted contracts and to offer me less money; the other didn't like the pool and wanted to be on the beach after taking videos for his parents. An internet couple looking at my pictures took the SB unit and ran to the bank to get a cashier's check (over the FLBR unit pictures). One guy wanted to be on a low floor - 4th floor or lower.

Value is in the eye and mind of the buyer.
 
Value is in the eye and mind of the buyer.

I agree 100% with this comment. As a buyer I could care less what the sellers cost are or if they are making a profit or taking a loss. I can get II Getaways at 5 star resorts at a fraction of what someone (including myself, I own at WKV) is paying in maintenance fees so to expect to recover your cost from renting on TUG is a little misguided and doesn't reflect true market conditions.
 
And if given a chance, many times good knowledge and pictures of the resort CAN change a rentor's perspective of "value".

All resorts have dumpsters, parking lots and poor views - a person with one week of vacation might be concerned with a better view. Hence, not all units of the same week have the same rental "value".
 
In my humble opinion, it's pretty simple.

It doesn't matter what your house appraises for, what the Kelly Blue Book value of your car is, what a collector's magazine says your baseball card should go for, what Storage Wars said your old scuplpture is worth, or what your grandfather clock was appraised for at the Antique Roadshow.

Simply put, your product is worth what the market dictates or in other words, what the highest bidder is willing to pay.

If your trying to sell/rent your TS for X dollars and your next door neighbors are selling the exact same T'S for much less...well, then guess what???

Forget ego, sentimental value, etc...be REALISTC.

Just to clarify, i'm Not condoning low balling or being a jerk, etc...I'm just a realist and a big believer in creating win-win situations for BOTH the seller and the buyer.

Also, TUGS has created a much more savvy consumer...but that doesn't excuse the jerks.
 
Given the attitudues shown here by quite a few people who like to rent out their weeks, I would not be the least surprised if their business falls off even more.
 
Here on the interwebs you can find all types - Ron and I have both found those that would look a gift horse in the mouth.

So it goes - as Alan would say ....

I also would like the answer to what is better than PayPal?

Nothing wrong with paypal for the owner but renter has to join and get nothing. The plus for owner is they get the money fast. If a problem renter still has to deal with their credit card compnay. Paypal subject has been talked about for years on all these sites with owners being the one's bragging about it!:ponder:
 
Nothing wrong with paypal for the owner but renter has to join and get nothing. The plus for owner is they get the money fast. If a problem renter still has to deal with their credit card compnay. Paypal subject has been talked about for years on all these sites with owners being the one's bragging about it!:ponder:

I'm not an owner renting out points and I love paypal/amazon payments. I recently rented DVC points for a VGC stay in Sept and I paypal'd the guy the $ after he sent me the confirmed reservation and I verified it with VGC.

Not to mention PayPal is used for a TON more things then just TS rental transactions.

It's a digital age and electronic/instant payments should not be an issue. Honestly, if someone requires me to go and physically mail a check or m/o, I'll just find someone else to work with.
 
A paypal account is not even needed to make payment through paypal.

Nothing wrong with paypal for the owner but renter has to join and get nothing. The plus for owner is they get the money fast. If a problem renter still has to deal with their credit card compnay. Paypal subject has been talked about for years on all these sites with owners being the one's bragging about it!:ponder:
 
Paying $500 a day for amusement park tickets which limits their HOUSING BUDGET to $200 .... I will use the old French Queen's comment (slightly modified) "Let them sleep in their car!".

I agree with this! I had a friend of a friend that contacted me about staying at Bonnet Creek for a week. She didn't want to pay me a dime until two weeks before the rental (which was early December), and she low-balled me on the price by $200 less than I was asking, then she asked if Bonnet Creek was a resort that participated in the Disney Dining Plan.

What? You won't pay the required deposit, yet you can afford the DDP for four people for a week? I cannot afford DDP. She said they always do DDP and would take something at Disney last minute instead.

Okay, because I don't care to rent to you at all.

Our daughter has people email with hard luck stories: "My husband is in Iraq on tour of duty, and I want to take our three kids to Disneyworld. Can you donate the accommodations because we are living on $20K per year?" The answer is easy: "I don't think you can afford to go to Disney. The tickets (military families do get a discount, but only when the soldier is present), the food, the car rental, and the other expenses, really the accommodations are a very small part of what you would pay."
 
That's why, an earlier poster said to give a sob story about why you can't afford to offer more, but I don't like the tactic. A story can be true or a total lie. It doesn't matter to the owner. Just make your offer and both sides be polite.
 
With all of the timeshares that I bought I have always bought with the idea of having an "exit strategy" available to me. For the most part that has meant, that if I had to get rid of the timeshare I would be reasonably certain of getting my money back. In practical terms, what that has meant that whenever I submit an offer on a timeshare I am making an offer that I full well know is significantly below "market price".

Based on some of the discussions above, I guess that makes me scum.

But the way I look at it is that I am not forcing anyone to take my offer. I'm not putting a gun to anyone's head. I'm simply saying this is what I'm willing to pay. A lot of people are insulted. So be it. But quite a few others come back and say that my offer is the first one they've ever received on their unit after having paid hundreds of dollars to list the unit two or three or four years ago.

In the interim, they've been paying maintenance fees, not using their units, etc. It's simply been sucking money and I'm the first relief they've seen.

+++++

One time I made an inquiry on a unit which, after doing some due diligence proved to not be what the owner thought it was (thought it was Raintree, but it was just an unconverted Bancomer Club Regina ownership with 2026 expiration date). It wasn't what I wanted, and I was ready to walk away. But the seller gave me a story, which I fully believe to be true, about a deadbeat ex-husband, a daughter who was a junkie who had given birth a child to which the seller had been granted parental rights as the grandmother because her daughter's drug problems made the daughter an unfit mother. The seller was desperate for money to pay some legal bills and to finance a move to Florida, to get her granddaughter away from the New Jersey they were living in.

I really didn't want the unit, but the seller/grandmother was desperate, needed cash now, was staring at a pending annual maintenance fee payment. So I bought the unit I didn't wan, at a price where I knew I could flip the unit within six months and double or triple my money. I knew how to do that and she didn't because I spend time on TUG and I've spent time researching her timeshare, and she hadn't.

I didn't see any reason why I shouldn't profit from the knowledge that I've gained and she hasn't. And in the process I gave her some money that she was more than grateful to accept to help with her situation.

++++

But yeah, I made her an offer at a price that I fully knew to be well below market value for her property. There is no question that I "lowballed" her and took advantage of her naivete and ignorance.

Based on earlier comments I'm sure that some of you are going to think I'm scum because of that. But frankly I look at this situation as win-win. She took less than 10% of what she was asking for the unit, and was happy. And I made about 250% on my money in six months.

++++++

Of course, one of the funny things is that in most case those "exit strategies" I planned for are now all under water. I wish I had lowballed more, because I can now see that I took on all of the downside risk and didn't property evaluate that risk upfront.
 
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There is no question that I "lowballed" her and took advantage of her naivete and ignorance.

Based on earlier comments I'm sure that some of you are going to think I'm scum because of that. But frankly I look at this situation as win-win. She took less than 10% of what she was asking for the unit, and was happy. And I made about 250% on my money in six months.

Sounds eerily similar to the TS developer and salesman scenario (but only in reverse) that are viewed as scum here on TUG.

IE: They charge full freight for something that can be bought for a buck and prey upon the naivete and ignorance of retail buyers.

Note: I'm not saying the low baller, TS developer or salesman are scum - I'm just commenting on the irony on the differences in the buying and selling perspectives relative to which side an individual happens to be on in a deal.
 
I'm in the camp of low ballers need not apply.

Those with a sob story shouldn't apply also. As should not those who want to overpay and have me sent a cheque in return.

A genuine offer, considering the relative bargaining positions, would always be considered.
 
For those of you who hate lowballers, what do you think of Priceline?
 
Of course, one of the funny things is that in most case those "exit strategies" I planned for are now all under water. I wish I had lowballed more, because I can now see that I took on all of the downside risk and didn't property evaluate that risk upfront.

Or perhaps you did properly evaluate the risk. Just so happened that the unexpected happened. Like going all in with four aces in poker, only to find out one of your opponents has a royal flush.
 
Or perhaps you did properly evaluate the risk. Just so happened that the unexpected happened. Like going all in with four aces in poker, only to find out one of your opponents has a royal flush.

Hate it when that happens!:doh:
 
I wonder what all these people renting units for ridiculously high prices feel about TS resorts selling weeks for ridiculously high prices...

Seems like the same thing to me...
 
I'm in the camp of low ballers need not apply.

Those with a sob story shouldn't apply also. As should not those who want to overpay and have me sent a cheque in return.

A genuine offer, considering the relative bargaining positions, would always be considered.

Personally I'm in the camp that any offer that the offeror is prepared to follow through on is a legitimate offer, which the other party is free to accept, decline, or counteroffer, as they wish.

As, say the person renting the unit, if I get an offer of $100 for a unit I am free to accept that offer, or decline the offer in hopes of getting more.

If that is the only offer that I were to get and I decide I would rather give it away for free to someone, that's perfectly fine. All that means is that the value to you of seeing it be used in some charitable purpose is worth more to you than the $100 you might otherwise get.

++++

What I have a hard time understanding is the philosophy that says it's better to let the unit sit vacant and get nothing instead of renting it out and getting $100.
 
What I have a hard time understanding is the philosophy that says it's better to let the unit sit vacant and get nothing instead of renting it out and getting $100.

Although hotels do it all the time.
 
Personally I'm in the camp that any offer that the offeror is prepared to follow through on is a legitimate offer, which the other party is free to accept, decline, or counteroffer, as they wish.

As, say the person renting the unit, if I get an offer of $100 for a unit I am free to accept that offer, or decline the offer in hopes of getting more.

If that is the only offer that I were to get and I decide I would rather give it away for free to someone, that's perfectly fine. All that means is that the value to you of seeing it be used in some charitable purpose is worth more to you than the $100 you might otherwise get.

++++

What I have a hard time understanding is the philosophy that says it's better to let the unit sit vacant and get nothing instead of renting it out and getting $100.

There's a saying for this:

"Cutting off your nose to spite your face"
 
Although hotels do it all the time.

That's the theory behind Priceline. The cost of a room (or a plane ticket) includes a fixed cost and a variable cost. In the case of a hotel, the fixed cost is the cost of providing the room and making it available for occupancy. The variable cost is the cost of cleaning the room after use, plus some increment of utility services.

The fixed cost of having the room available is a sunk cost, so any revenue the hotel generates from the room that exceeds the variable cost is more attractive than letting the room sit vacant.

When renting a timeshare, the variable cost is generally the cost of obtaining a gift certificate (if needed) plus whatever value the owner attaches to the added work of setting up and managing the rental. Any amount that might be received in rental that is over and above the owners rental cost is money in the bank. Of course it doesn't make sense to rent the unit if the cost of paperwork and the cost of the owners time to handle the rental exceeds the rental revenue.
 
Exactamundo...

...any offer that the offeror is prepared to follow through on is a legitimate offer, which the other party is free to accept, decline, or counteroffer, as they wish.

Succinctly stated and absolutely correct. All the other sideline angst and emotion expressed in this particular discussion is (imho, with my aplologies to William S.) just "much ado about nothing". :shrug:
 
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