"You Cannot Do Good Business With Bad People" - Warren Buffet

[4Reliefnow]

Many threads describe the lies, manipulation and deception of MVC sales team. Other threads describe MVC actions that take rights away from owners; like the new push for using a guest form more than 30 days ahead.

If you are reading here on TUG you should know that most MVC sales[people are Bad People. You should realize that MVC management is frequently making rules that harm owners (They really screwed us at Hyatt Coconut)

The obvious direction is to stop buying ANYTHING directly from MVC. You can buy secondary deeded weeks, secondary Points, rent on Redweek, rent points transferred into your account (vacationpointexchange.com). Just stop buying directly from MVC. They will lie to you about what you are getting. They will cheat you by omitting important facts.

I would also say stop taking those sales tours with juicy bonuses. The signup bonuses are not free. MVC sales people confuse and minipulate people into buying. One day you will be the sucker that falls for a new trick.

Yes, I have become angry at the lies, manipulation and rules changes. But, you can PM me if you want to know what I really think.

Please post the lies you were told!

 

[rickandcindy23]

Your username is suspicious. If someone PM's you, are you going to have an exit service to sell?

 

[easyrider]

Your username is suspicious. If someone PM's you, are you going to have an exit service to sell?

I agree. Maybe the op is a bad business that Waren warns about.

Bill

 

[Hindsite]

You're going to struggle to do any business if you set that bar, just look at how difficult it is for "ethical" companies to thrive.
Humans just aren't built to be like that, the survival mechanisms have too large an influence.
About the best you can to is have a consciousness about what your impact and acknowledge and/or mitigate it and then have some lines that you don't cross.

 

[Ski-Dad]

You're going to struggle to do any business if you set that bar, just look at how difficult it is for "ethical" companies to thrive.
Humans just aren't built to be like that, the survival mechanisms have too large an influence.
About the best you can to is have a consciousness about what your impact and acknowledge and/or mitigate it and then have some lines that you don't cross.

I am a very trusting person and have done a # of deals on a handshake with considerable monies at risk. I do not do business with persons I cannot trust.

 

[WBP]

I agree with the Original Poster.

Marriott Vacation Club has turned into a highly suspect, unscrupulous enterprise.

I believe the current leadership of MVC/MVW will do all that they can to screw MVC Owners, and to take advantage of them.

If you are an earlier purchaser of MVC timeshare, you were likely told about "Mr. Marriott's values being the foundation of MVC." What a lie that turned out to be.

 

[Hindsite]

I am a very trusting person and have done a # of deals on a handshake with considerable monies at risk. I do not do business with persons I cannot trust.

You can trust "bad" people, that's different. There's no shortage of trust in the criminal fraternity, or with people who we simply don't know might be what we think of as "bad" in other contexts. e.g When I look into the background of a surgeon who is going to perform surgery on me I don't check whether they are a domestic abuser or not, and I know their employer doesn't either.

Moving back to the sort of topic. I can do business with MVC as their bad sales techniques (lies) do not extend to resort operations in my experience. I understand the limitations of the levels of influence that the corporation has on HOA decision making and find that the outcome is a resort experience that I enjoy and find value for money relative to the alternatives that I would consider. When I interact with other owners I find a diverse variety of perspectives about how things should be, many of which I don't agree with, so having brand standards and the management company/HOA walk the line of trying to meet everyone's needs is a good thing as far as I am concerned.

 

[Tank]

Somebody has to buy in a to help keep up the resorts we all enjoy.

When word really gets around and sales dwindle, wait to see what MF’s will have to go up to to try to keep up with our standards.

 

[ljmiii]

Somebody has to buy in a to help keep up the resorts we all enjoy.

While I agree, there is also no disputing the fact that the MVC's attitude (and the behavior of its salespeople) has changed dramatically since the introduction of the points program and the spinoff from Marriott. The only real lie was one of omission...that one could buy the same thing resale. But using weeks, trading them through II, and even trading them for MRPs or air and hotel packages worked pretty much as described.

In all fairness, MVC is not alone in this. When I bought DVC they treated direct and resale buyers exactly the same and (after incentives) the cost of buying direct and resale was comparable.

 

[dioxide45]

Somebody has to buy in a to help keep up the resorts we all enjoy.

Not really. MVC could change to a pure management company and the existing resorts would continue to function exactly as they do today.

 

[Ski-Dad]

Somebody has to buy in a to help keep up the resorts we all enjoy.

When word really gets around and sales dwindle, wait to see what MF’s will have to go up to to try to keep up with our standards.

Rest assured, no monies from MVC sales are being used to keep resorts up to Marriott standards. MF pays for all of that.

 

[rickandcindy23]

IF, big IF, Marriott decides to let us all bring our deeded resale weeks after 2010 (whatever the date was), would you even do it? Would you say, "Okay, I will convert my Marriott's Willow Ridge (Shadow Ridge, Grand Chateau) to Marriott because you are offering to do it free." Or would you say, "No thank you because the ongoing added cost to me is not worth it."

Would it depend on how many weeks you could enroll for free?

What would make you bound (jump) into Abound with both feet and without worrying about remorse later on?

 

[vacationtime1]

IF, big IF, Marriott decides to let us all bring our deeded resale weeks after 2010 (whatever the date was), would you even do it? Would you say, "Okay, I will convert my Marriott's Willow Ridge (Shadow Ridge, Grand Chateau) to Marriott because you are offering to do it free." Or would you say, "No thank you because the ongoing added cost to me is not worth it."

Would it depend on how many weeks you could enroll for free?

What would make you bound (jump) into Abound with both feet and without worrying about remorse later on?

One doesn't "convert" weeks into Abound; one "enrolls" them and has an annual option to elect points. If one does not elect points for any specific week, the week may be used as it was previously.

If Marriott magically waived the cost of enrollment (fat chance), there would be no cost other than the Abound membership fee which tops out at about $300 (that membership fee includes free Marriott to Marriott Interval exchanges).

otoh, if you were asking whether I would convert Marriott weeks into the electable number of Abound points permanently, my answer would be "no way" because of the absurd MF's necessary for enough points to reserve prime weeks.

 

[jwalk03]

I would love to enroll my weeks for free into the Abound program! Would save me a fortune in Interval fees every year.

 

[dioxide45]

I would love to enroll my weeks for free into the Abound program! Would save me a fortune in Interval fees every year.

For those of us that enrolled resale weeks early, we had to pay $1,995 to enroll multiple weeks. Then it went up to (I think) $2,295 for a period of time before they started to offer enrollment by taking a presentation and later with the webinar. I would suspect many would enroll for even the $2,295 if given the chance. Just not sure MVC will offer the chance when they can convince people to buy more trust points to enroll.

 

[rickandcindy23]

One doesn't "convert" weeks into Abound; one "enrolls" them and has an annual option to elect points. If one does not elect points for any specific week, the week may be used as it was previously.

If Marriott magically waived the cost of enrollment (fat chance), there would be no cost other than the Abound membership fee which tops out at about $300 (that membership fee includes free Marriott to Marriott Interval exchanges).

otoh, if you were asking whether I would convert Marriott weeks into the electable number of Abound points permanently, my answer would be "no way" because of the absurd MF's necessary for enough points to reserve prime weeks.

Yes, I used the wrong word, but we cannot do that with the resale weeks we bought after 2010.

And I was asking if anyone would "convert" weeks into Abound permanently.

I think Marriott is selling a bad product with Abound and have been clear to everyone we know that this is not a good purchase through the developer.

Our daughter-in-law's parents bought Ko Olina when our DIL was in high school, so 22+ years ago. They love the choices they have in Abound (Destination Club) and talk it up constantly. They travel using those points every year and never exchange and say they won't buy any additional points. But as much as they love Ko Olina, I would not be surprised if they bought through Marriott again to get the same thing. They are recently retired.

 

[jwalk03]

For those of us that enrolled resale weeks early, we had to pay $1,995 to enroll multiple weeks. Then it went up to (I think) $2,295 for a period of time before they started to offer enrollment by taking a presentation and later with the webinar. I would suspect many would enroll for even the $2,295 if given the chance. Just not sure MVC will offer the chance when they can convince people to buy more trust points to enroll.

Yes- I would certainly pay something like $2,295 to enroll as well. I just don't want to spend $40,000 or whatever it would be with the current offerings. A couple of thousand I could recoup in Interval fee savings pretty quickly. tens of thousands is a much long return on investment.

 

[Sandy VDH]

It all started with the points skim IMHO

 

[ljmiii]

And I was asking if anyone would "convert" weeks into Abound permanently.

I think Marriott is selling a bad product with Abound and have been clear to everyone we know that this is not a good purchase through the developer.

I think that you have answered your own question. I would go further and say that a large part of the reason Abound isn't a great product is *because* MVC decided they should make more money off of existing owners by charging for weeks to be enrolled.

Part of the reason that HGVC has more availability and is in general more pleasant to use is that all HGVC weeks are 'enrolled'...even when bought through resale. If all MVC weeks owners had the option of electing their weeks into points, Abound point availability wouldn't be the issue that it is today.

 

[Hindsite]

Abound point availability wouldn't be the issue that it is today.

I'm not convinced, it might be better if there were more people enrolled, but still lacking. While Club points do seem to work well for people, they are terrible value relative to using MVC weeks in II. I have enrolled weeks that I can use in II to book weeks that would need me to elect 2 weeks to get enough club points to book via Abound. I just can't find the value in electing for how we vacation, and the gap is big.
If how you vacation, and where you want to go, can be achieved by using II, then election is just not sensible.

 

[Dean]

IF everyone were on the points system, those of us who plan, would have better availability and those that don't would have worse availability. I would enroll the 3 weeks I have that are not enrolled for a small fee given the chance but not at the current prices, even using Spain options.

 

[TUGBrian]

while we hear a constant stream of the same complaints, it is fair to say that there are PLENTY of non shady salespeople out there along with plenty of owners who had a positive experience both buying retail, and enjoying their Timeshare purchased retail.

given the numbers involved, the entire industry would collapse overnight if it was true that every single salesperson was a "snake in the grass"...

that said I have absolutely no tolerance for playing fast and loose with the truth and hope it really is true that many resorts implement secret shopper programs where employees attend sales presentations to help combat this.

 

[dioxide45]

I think that you have answered your own question. I would go further and say that a large part of the reason Abound isn't a great product is *because* MVC decided they should make more money off of existing owners by charging for weeks to be enrolled.

Part of the reason that HGVC has more availability and is in general more pleasant to use is that all HGVC weeks are 'enrolled'...even when bought through resale. If all MVC weeks owners had the option of electing their weeks into points, Abound point availability wouldn't be the issue that it is today.

I think where HGVC and even others like Vistana have better availability is with automatic conversation to club inventory. At 9 or 8 months anything not reserved by home resort availability is available for club or network reservations.

MVC requires an action taken by the owner in order for most inventory to get into the club.

 

[Dean]

I think where HGVC and even others like Vistana have better availability is with automatic conversation to club inventory. At 9 or 8 months anything not reserved by home resort availability is available for club or network reservations.

MVC requires an action taken by the owner in order for most inventory to get into the club.

With Bluegreen you must elect to keep your deeded week by or before 11 months out or else it gets converted to points automatically. I've never reserved my underlying week once I was in the point system with BG. Now I do own some pretty high demand OF weeks in Aruba, weeks 12 & 14 though.

 

[dioxide45]

With Bluegreen you must elect to keep your deeded week by or before 11 months out or else it gets converted to points automatically. I've never reserved my underlying week once I was in the point system with BG. Now I do own some pretty high demand OF weeks in Aruba, weeks 12 & 14 though.

So BG works much the same as HGVC and Vistana.