Wyndham Privileges: new Wyndham VIP Levels starting late 2020 [Merged]

[CO skier]

If they were to choose to distinguish between the point sources ...

Simple. Developer purchased points are treated just like ARP. Non-developer points do not get VIP benefits, just like "foreign" points do not get ARP benefits at any resort.

 

[Eric B]

Simple. Developer purchased points are treated just like ARP. Non-developer points do not get VIP benefits, just like "foreign" points do not get ARP benefits at any resort.

But see RARP and the various exceptions to that idea like Outrigger Club, etc. My guess is that the implementation isn’t simple and I believe there are a number of account level VIP benefits that would have indeterminate treatment if it were a merely ARP-like treatment. For example, number of reservation transactions and housekeeping credits. But you could have read that in my post that the phrase quoted was cherry-picked from....

 

[Richelle]

Bottom line. One member - multiple accounts each with its own rules. You will be able to view all your reservations by account or by member. Just as I do with my activity/holdings etc. in my Merril Edge account. No inconvenience whatsoever. Just that your resale account will not get VIP benefits as envisaged by the regulations in the directory. That's all.
There is no question of transfers. It's not part of the paradigm.

Multiple accounts with their own rules? The system is already confusing for owners. What you are suggesting would add a whole other level of complications, that would create more confusion and even more frustration. If you spent more then 10 minutes browsing the Facebook groups, you see many posts about people being confused. This would make it much worse.

 

[Richelle]

Bottom line. One member - multiple accounts each with its own rules. You will be able to view all your reservations by account or by member. Just as I do with my activity/holdings etc. in my Merril Edge account. No inconvenience whatsoever. Just that your resale account will not get VIP benefits as envisaged by the regulations in the directory. That's all.
There is no question of transfers. It's not part of the paradigm.

Multiple accounts with their own rules? The system is already confusing for owners. What you are suggesting would add a whole other level of complications, that would create more confusion and even more frustration. If you spent more then 10 minutes browsing the Facebook groups, you see many posts about people being confused. This would make it much worse.

 

[dgalati]

Multiple accounts with their own rules? The system is already confusing for owners. What you are suggesting would add a whole other level of complications, that would create more confusion and even more frustration. If you spent more then 10 minutes browsing the Facebook groups, you see many posts about people being confused. This would make it much worse.

Sales would have a field day with the multiple accounts. Imagine the many ways that sales could try to sell more points with this added level of confusion. This Sounds very similar to a new program they are launching called Privileges.

 

[Braindead]

Sales would have a field day with the multiple accounts. Imagine the many ways that sales could try to sell more points with this added level of confusion. This Sounds very similar to a new program they are launching called Privileges.

Since when does Privileges create multiple membership accounts??

 

[SNA27]

I have multiple accounts in BofA, Merril Edge, Chase, et al. I know what each account is for and what governs it. I am not confused that the Checking account doesn't pay interest while other accounts do. I know there are fees associated with each account and my aggregate balance gives me privileges that waive a lot of those fees. I don't use privileges like using foreign ATMs for free. But my son does it all the time and I see fees being charged and credited.
If I had a retail VIP account and a resale account with Wyndham, I will not be confused that reservations made in the retail account accrue VIP benefits but the ones made in the resale account do not. I will be able to see all my reservations in one place for all accounts or a specific account.
Imagine further, that you can see your WM or Shell accounts under the same membership and they follow their own rules wrt to privileges and reservations etc. FANTASTIC!

I understand the fears instilled in members by Wyndham with its track record of poor execution in the past. But just imagine the possibilities of soaring like an eagle (Jonathan Livingston Seagull, if you prefer) without being constrained by those turkeys! Ok, I know I am not being realistic; I am just brainstorming unconstrained by reality! We're all better off when people like Steve Jobs are able to break free from the constraints of turkeys!

 

[dgalati]

I have multiple accounts in BofA, Merril Edge, Chase, et al. I know what each account is for and what governs it. I am not confused that the Checking account doesn't pay interest while other accounts do. I know there are fees associated with each account and my aggregate balance gives me privileges that waive a lot of those fees. I don't use privileges like using foreign ATMs for free. But my son does it all the time and I see fees being charged and credited.
IF I had a retail VIP account and a resale account with Wyndham, I will not be confused that reservations made in the retail account accrue VIP benefits but the the ones made in the resale account do not. I will be able to see all my reservations in one place for all accounts or a specific account.
Imagine further, that you can see your WM or Shell accounts under the same membership and they follow their own rules wrt to privileges and reservations etc. FANTASTIC!

I understand the fears instilled in members by Wyndham with its track record of poor execution in the past. But just imagine the possibilities of soaring like an eagle without being constrained by those turkeys! Ok, I know I am not being realistic; I am just brainstorming unconstrained by reality! We're all better off when people like Steve Jobs are able to break free from the constraints of turkeys!

Makes sense to me.

 

[Richelle]

I have multiple accounts in BofA, Merril Edge, Chase, et al. I know what each account is for and what governs it. I am not confused that the Checking account doesn't pay interest while other accounts do. I know there are fees associated with each account and my aggregate balance gives me privileges that waive a lot of those fees. I don't use privileges like using foreign ATMs for free. But my son does it all the time and I see fees being charged and credited.
If I had a retail VIP account and a resale account with Wyndham, I will not be confused that reservations made in the retail account accrue VIP benefits but the the ones made in the resale account do not. I will be able to see all my reservations in one place for all accounts or a specific account.
Imagine further, that you can see your WM or Shell accounts under the same membership and they follow their own rules wrt to privileges and reservations etc. FANTASTIC!

I understand the fears instilled in members by Wyndham with its track record of poor execution in the past. But just imagine the possibilities of soaring like an eagle without being constrained by those turkeys! Ok, I know I am not being realistic; I am just brainstorming unconstrained by reality! We're all better off when people like Steve Jobs are able to break free from the constraints of turkeys!

You, me, and a lot of people here on TUG could figure things out just fine. The fact is, only a small portion of ownership is knowledgeable about timeshares. I didn’t take a poll, but if you spend enough time on those Facebook groups, you will see the same questions or frustrations over and over. You will see there are plenty of people that are confused. These are the most common comments and questions.

“I’m really confused”
“I’m lost”.
“Why is there no availability a year out?” (People just don’t understand the booking windows)
“How do I use my points to pay for airfare/cruises/Disney tickets/rental cars/maintenance fees/etc”.
“What are housekeeping credits”
“why did I get charged $19 for this reservation?”
“What’s the difference between CWA and deeded?”
“What is blue thread?”
“I went to an owner update to get answers to my questions, and they told me (enter various sales tactics here)”
“When can I borrow points?”
“How can I use my points for hotel stays”
“How do I move my points to next year? They expire tomorrow”
“How do I rent points/reservations?”
“Will Wyndham buy my timeshare back”?
“How do I get out of my loan?”
“How do I get out of my timeshare”
“The timeshare exit company said my children will be stuck with this after I die!”
“Why can I not book WorldMark resorts?”
“How do I book RCI?”
“Where can I buy points resale?”
“What’s the difference between resale and retail?”
“Did I do the right thing?” (My personal favorite)
“What are the benefits of VIP?”
“What is Club Pass?”
“How do I use my points to pay for maintenance fees?”
“How many points is a cruise?”
“How do I sell my timeshare?”


Over, and Over, and Over. It’s not just a few “turkeys”. Just because you or I have figured it out, doesn’t mean it’s easy. The difference between banking and timeshares, is the average person knows at least a bit about checking accounts, credits cards, 401k, etc. They’ve known about money since they were a kid. The majority of these poor souls know next to nothing about timeshares. The smart ones take the time to figure it out. The even smarter ones rescinded, so they had time to figure out what they want. Unfortunately, plenty are not as smart, and believes a commissioned sales person. Don’t base your opinion on your experiences, and what you see people write here, alone. There are more people on the Facebook groups, because they know of Facebook. You’ll see more opinions and experiences there, then you would here. Most of the people here are familiar with their timeshare, so it’s easy to think that only a few don’t know how to use it. If it were easy to figure out, half the sales tactics the sales people use wouldn’t work. Multiple accounts with different rules would create mass confusion. As @dgalati said, that would give the sales people even more opportunities to con people into buying points they don’t need.

Im not saying this is a reason they shouldn’t take away VIP benefits from resale. I’m not saying they should take away benefits either. What I’m saying is, multiple accounts with different rules is a bad idea, and the only people who will benefit, will be the sales people.

 

[SNA27]

You can't deny or fight the Bell curve. Accept it as reality.
A society where 20% achievers are looked upon and allowed by the 80% to lead will succeed. America is a shining example.
Societies where the 80% mediocre lead while despising and suffocating the 20% achievers will fail miserably! Look at the Socialist countries.
We must stop pandering. Those who don't understand the rules want to understand. They don't want you to abolish the rules or dumb it down. That seems to be the current political fad.
LCD (Lowest Common Denominator) is a nice arithmetic construct, but that's not a great social construct. Very destructive, imo.

 

[SNA27]

You, me, and a lot of people here on TUG could figure things out just fine. The fact is, only a small portion of ownership is knowledgeable about timeshares. I didn’t take a poll, but if you spend enough time on those Facebook groups, you will see the same questions or frustrations over and over. You will see there are plenty of people that are confused. These are the most common comments and questions.

“I’m really confused”
“I’m lost”.
“Why is there no availability a year out?” (People just don’t understand the booking windows)
“How do I use my points to pay for airfare/cruises/Disney tickets/rental cars/maintenance fees/etc”.
“What are housekeeping credits”
“why did I get charged $19 for this reservation?”
“What’s the difference between CWA and deeded?”
“What is blue thread?”
“I went to an owner update to get answers to my questions, and they told me (enter various sales tactics here)”
“When can I borrow points?”
“How can I use my points for hotel stays”
“How do I move my points to next year? They expire tomorrow”
“How do I rent points/reservations?”
“Will Wyndham buy my timeshare back”?
“How do I get out of my loan?”
“How do I get out of my timeshare”
“The timeshare exit company said my children will be stuck with this after I die!”
“Why can I not book WorldMark resorts?”
“How do I book RCI?”
“Where can I buy points resale?”
“What’s the difference between resale and retail?”
“Did I do the right thing?” (My personal favorite)
“What are the benefits of VIP?”
“What is Club Pass?”
“How do I use my points to pay for maintenance fees?”
“How many points is a cruise?”
“How do I sell my timeshare?”


Over, and Over, and Over. It’s not just a few “turkeys”. Just because you or I have figured it out, doesn’t mean it’s easy. The difference between banking and timeshares, is the average person knows at least a bit about checking accounts, credits cards, 401k, etc. They’ve known about money since they were a kid. The majority of these poor souls know next to nothing about timeshares. The smart ones take the time to figure it out. The even smarter ones rescinded, so they had time to figure out what they want. Unfortunately, plenty are not as smart, and believes a commissioned sales person. Don’t base your opinion on your experiences, and what you see people write here, alone. There are more people on the Facebook groups, because they know of Facebook. You’ll see more opinions and experiences there, then you would here. Most of the people here are familiar with their timeshare, so it’s easy to think that only a few don’t know how to use it. If it were easy to figure out, half the sales tactics the sales people use wouldn’t work. Multiple accounts with different rules would create mass confusion. As @dgalati said, that would give the sales people even more opportunities to con people into buying points they don’t need.

Im not saying this is a reason they shouldn’t take away VIP benefits from resale. I’m not saying they should take away benefits either. What I’m saying is, multiple accounts with different rules is a bad idea, and the only people who will benefit, will be the sales people.

Some of those questions above are easily addressed in FAQ. But, if you're going to ask me 'what's an FAQ and where can I buy it?', I don't know what else would you want me to do? Peel their banana for them? That's a popular idiom where I come from. Guys who're so lazy they want their banana peeled for them! What they need is a swift kick in the rear!

 

[SNA27]

View attachment 16297
Since when does Privileges create multiple membership accounts??

Come on, @Braindead, your post elsewhere was deleted by moderators. You have dredged it up. Not mensch!
@dgalati is not your enemy. He has a perspective with which you disagree on this anonymous forum. So do I, on some level. It means diddly-squat!

 

[Richelle]

Some of those questions above are easily addressed in FAQ. But, if you're going to ask me 'what's an FAQ and where can I buy it?', I don't know what else would you want me to do? Peel their banana for them? That's a popular idiom where I come from. Guys who're so lazy they want their banana peeled for them! What they need is a swift kick in the rear!

They don’t need a FAQ. They can search the Facebook group for the answers to the above question. You’re preaching to the choir on that one. Most don’t realize they can search the forums. You tell them about the search feature and multiple people tell you that this is “Wyndham HELPING owners” and that I’m not being helpful. I’m mostly just skipping those posts, unless I see someone giving inaccurate information.

Just like we should not pander to the 20%, we shouldn’t pander to the even smaller percentage of people who don’t like that resale points get VIP perks. Wyndham left it out of their directory for a reason. If you recall, they made a lot of changes. Just because you don’t like it, doesn’t mean it’s wrong. Wyndham can and does change the rules whenever they see fit. In this case, they changed the rule. That is no different than them changing other the rules. You’ve made your point that you don’t like resale getting VIP benefits, and without knowing much of what’s behind the wheel of Voyager, have made it a point to tell us Wyndham what they should do. You’re beating a dead horse at this point. You’re not changing any minds. I’m done with this portion of the conversation. When I’m not busy at work, I might join in if the topic changes. In the mean time, I have better things to do, then beat a dead horse. Feel free to do it with anyone who will listen. I won’t interfere.

 

[Braindead]

I have multiple accounts in BofA, Merril Edge, Chase, et al. I know what each account is for and what governs it. I am not confused that the Checking account doesn't pay interest while other accounts do. I know there are fees associated with each account and my aggregate balance gives me privileges that waive a lot of those fees. I don't use privileges like using foreign ATMs for free. But my son does it all the time and I see fees being charged and credited.
If I had a retail VIP account and a resale account with Wyndham, I will not be confused that reservations made in the retail account accrue VIP benefits but the ones made in the resale account do not. I will be able to see all my reservations in one place for all accounts or a specific account.
Imagine further, that you can see your WM or Shell accounts under the same membership and they follow their own rules wrt to privileges and reservations etc. FANTASTIC!

I understand the fears instilled in members by Wyndham with its track record of poor execution in the past. But just imagine the possibilities of soaring like an eagle (Jonathan Livingston Seagull, if you prefer) without being constrained by those turkeys! Ok, I know I am not being realistic; I am just brainstorming unconstrained by reality! We're all better off when people like Steve Jobs are able to break free from the constraints of turkeys!

You can't deny or fight the Bell curve. Accept it as reality.
A society where 20% achievers are looked upon and allowed by the 80% to lead will succeed. America is a shining example.
Societies where the 80% mediocre lead while despising and suffocating the 20% achievers will fail miserably! Look at the Socialist countries.
We must stop pandering. Those who don't understand the rules want to understand. They don't want you to abolish the rules or dumb it down. That seems to be the current political fad.
LCD (Lowest Common Denominator) is a nice arithmetic construct, but that's not a great social construct. Very destructive, imo.

What is true for society is not true for business.

Your IQ may very well be 3 times higher than mine, google is my friend searching the words you use so I can understand WTH you’re saying.lol
You’ve called me closed minded & out of touch with the new world.
But I’ll attempt one time to demonstrate that our Club Wyndham website is like your bank website.

$$=points
Accounts=contracts
fees for each account= MFs listed for each contract on your Financial page
accounts combined = points allocations
accounts have separate rules= Booking windows-UDI, CWA, Outrigger, Presidential Reserve, Margaritavilles & others
you say “my aggregate balances gives me privileges” =VIP Tiers
summary page= reservations-points available

I think with our Club Wyndham website we are in the new world & the website is NOT a “dumb it down” situation as you put It.
What you want for a website would be like putting 3 or 4 different bank chains with different foreign currencies on one website.
The timeshare companies you want on one website are separate entities, points based[currency] using separate points charts[foreign currency] that has to be exchanged to a different currency for use in a different systems

 

[HitchHiker71]

You can't deny or fight the Bell curve. Accept it as reality.
A society where 20% achievers are looked upon and allowed by the 80% to lead will succeed. America is a shining example.
Societies where the 80% mediocre lead while despising and suffocating the 20% achievers will fail miserably! Look at the Socialist countries.
We must stop pandering. Those who don't understand the rules want to understand. They don't want you to abolish the rules or dumb it down. That seems to be the current political fad.
LCD (Lowest Common Denominator) is a nice arithmetic construct, but that's not a great social construct. Very destructive, imo.

Where are you sourcing these assumptions from? The old 80/20 rule really doesn't apply the way you're attempting to apply to it here IMHO. For the last 15 years I've managed people who perform IT work - and increasingly business strategy as my career has progressed. Prior to that I was at the keyboard for about ten years. From a personnel management standpoint, a routinely used standard is the 10/80/10 best practice. 10% of your work force are underperformers, 80% are performers, and 10% are outperformers (your superstars). You work on managing out the underperformers, preserving the performers, and promoting the superstars.

How does this apply to the topic at hand? If we take a step back - we need to recognize that those who are unhappy tend to be the most vocal. These are the people that find TUG, and find the Facebook groups especially, because on some level they are experiencing pain, for whatever set of reasons. These people fall into the bottom 10% of timeshare ownership and are the relatively uneducated folks that we often interact with as @Richelle pointed out - especially on the Facebook groups. The 80% in the middle - most likely don't post on TUG or the Facebook groups, because they are content and have no desire or need to do so. They understand the system well enough to meet their needs - and have no real complaints - this 80% is the vast majority of timeshare owners. The top 10% may or may not join TUG or the Facebook groups. Those who want to share their knowledge will join and do exactly that. Many of the frequent posters here on TUG probably fall into the top 10% - these folks are very knowledgeable and like to share their knowledge and experiences. If we look at the responses to the ownership poll that SNA27 posted - it all but proves my assertions here when we compare those statistics to the rationalized ownership stats from Wyndham.

All that said, I think what SNA27 is attempting to propose is not necessarily a single member account per se. He's phrasing it this way, because he's talking at a technical architecture layer. I would describe it differently - describe the market problem and the proposed solution from a business perspective. I would describe the ask as an ownership portal from Wyndham Destinations. From within that "single pane of glass" portal - the user could access any/all Wyndham owned products seamlessly. There will in fact be multiple member accounts - however the system utilizes single sign-on authentication mechanisms behind the scenes via the portal's master login ID so that whenever you click on your Worldmark vs your Club Wyndham ownership section within the portal - you don't have to authenticate again. You can also return to your splash portal page from anywhere within the website construct - so that you could easily move back and forth between the various products that you own. I haven't thought through this proposal in detail, but an ownership portal like this might be useful depending on how it is implemented. That said, I do openly question the scope of the market problem, as something like this would only be useful for people who own multiple timeshare contracts across CWP, WM, MVC, and SVC, and I don't know the subset of owners who actually have ownership that spans across multiple timeshare entities. I suspect it's a very low percentage overall, which is probably why it's not worth pursuing a solution like this. Again, it all comes down to evidence based (metric) decision making IME.

 

[SNA27]

What is true for society is not true for business.

Your IQ may very well be 3 times higher than mine, google is my friend searching the words you use so I can understand WTH you’re saying.lol
You’ve called me closed minded & out of touch with the new world.
But I’ll attempt one time to demonstrate that our Club Wyndham website is like your bank website.

$$=points
Accounts=contracts
fees for each account= MFs listed for each contract on your Financial page
accounts combined = points allocations
accounts have separate rules= Booking windows-UDI, CWA, Outrigger, Presidential Reserve, Margaritavilles & others
you say “my aggregate balances gives me privileges” =VIP Tiers
summary page= reservations-points available

I think with our Club Wyndham website we are in the new world & the website is NOT a “dumb it down” situation as you put It.
What you want for a website would be like putting 3 or 4 different bank chains with different foreign currencies on one website.
The timeshare companies you want on one website are separate entities, points based[currency] using separate points charts[foreign currency] that has to be exchanged to a different currency for use in a different systems

I am so sorry. You must have misunderstood me. I was in no way launching personal attacks. I have already expressed my admiration for your knowing what you're talking about. elsewhere. I wish you had read that and known where I was coming from. I probably should not have used the 80-20 analogy of Socialist countries in this context. While apt in Venezuela, it may be misunderstood in this context. I will try to respond later. I just wanted to apologize first for any misunderstanding.

 

[SNA27]

Where are you sourcing these assumptions from? The old 80/20 rule really doesn't apply the way you're attempting to apply to it here IMHO. For the last 15 years I've managed people who perform IT work - and increasingly business strategy as my career has progressed. Prior to that I was at the keyboard for about ten years. From a personnel management standpoint, a routinely used standard is the 10/80/10 best practice. 10% of your work force are underperformers, 80% are performers, and 10% are outperformers (your superstars). You work on managing out the underperformers, preserving the performers, and promoting the superstars.

How does this apply to the topic at hand? If we take a step back - we need to recognize that those who are unhappy tend to be the most vocal. These are the people that find TUG, and find the Facebook groups especially, because on some level they are experiencing pain, for whatever set of reasons. These people fall into the bottom 10% of timeshare ownership and are the relatively uneducated folks that we often interact with as @Richelle pointed out - especially on the Facebook groups. The 80% in the middle - most likely don't post on TUG or the Facebook groups, because they are content and have no desire or need to do so. They understand the system well enough to meet their needs - and have no real complaints - this 80% is the vast majority of timeshare owners. The top 10% may or may not join TUG or the Facebook groups. Those who want to share their knowledge will join and do exactly that. Many of the frequent posters here on TUG probably fall into the top 10% - these folks are very knowledgeable and like to share their knowledge and experiences. If we look at the responses to the ownership poll that SNA27 posted - it all but proves my assertions here when we compare those statistics to the rationalized ownership stats from Wyndham.

All that said, I think what SNA27 is attempting to propose is not necessarily a single member account per se. He's phrasing it this way, because he's talking at a technical architecture layer. I would describe it differently - describe the market problem and the proposed solution from a business perspective. I would describe the ask as an ownership portal from Wyndham Destinations. From within that "single pane of glass" portal - the user could access any/all Wyndham owned products seamlessly. There will in fact be multiple member accounts - however the system utilizes single sign-on authentication mechanisms behind the scenes via the portal's master login ID so that whenever you click on your Worldmark vs your Club Wyndham ownership section within the portal - you don't have to authenticate again. You can also return to your splash portal page from anywhere within the website construct - so that you could easily move back and forth between the various products that you own. I haven't thought through this proposal in detail, but an ownership portal like this might be useful depending on how it is implemented. That said, I do openly question the scope of the market problem, as something like this would only be useful for people who own multiple timeshare contracts across CWP, WM, MVC, and SVC, and I don't know the subset of owners who actually have ownership that spans across multiple timeshare entities. I suspect it's a very low percentage overall, which is probably why it's not worth pursuing a solution like this. Again, it all comes down to evidence based (metric) decision making IME.

Damn! Stupid me and my 80-20 analogy! I meant it in the context of America vs. Venezuela. Not in the context of IT, at all. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I will try to respond later.

 

[SNA27]

I was addressing two separate issues and somehow they have gotten conflated by some.
1. Structuring the database to enforce rules wrt resale points and their ineligibility for VIP Benefits.
2. @Richelle's enumeration of the types of complaints posted on Facebook. Some Wyndham customers seem to complain just about anything without taking any responsibility upon themselves.

@Richelle did not conflate the issues and clearly addressed them in two separate paragraphs.

As to issue 1:
I am purely approaching it from the perspective of a database designer without taking into account marketing and accounting considerations. I have explained my perspective as well as I could on this thread and others.

As to issue 2:
I don't believe the customer is always right. They can be pretty unreasonable and misformed and feel entitled more often than can be justified or tolerated.

For example, @Jan M. mentioned a woman complaining about the studio at St. Thomas resort as being too small. Granted Wyndham doesn't always provide layouts but they do specify the Studio's size as ~500 SqFt. Would she have been able to visualize a space of 500 SqFt with or without the layout? Probably not. Now, what can Wyndham do about such a complaint?
Didn't she know all she had to do was to pull out her wand and cast the spell Capacious extremis and she would have had a 4BR Presidential? Silly Muggles!

 

[Richelle]

I was addressing two separate issues and somehow they have gotten conflated by some.
1. Structuring the database to enforce rules wrt resale points and their ineligibility for VIP Benefits.
2. @Richelle's enumeration of the types of complaints posted on Facebook. Some Wyndham customers seem to complain just about anything without taking any responsibility upon themselves.

@Richelle did not conflate the issues and clearly addressed them in two separate paragraphs.

As to issue 1:
I am purely approaching it from the perspective of a database designer without taking into account marketing and accounting considerations. I have explained my perspective as well as I could on this thread and others.

As to issue 2:
I don't believe the customer is always right. They can be pretty unreasonable and misformed and feel entitled more often than can be justified or tolerated.

For example, @Jan M. mentioned a woman complaining about the studio at St. Thomas resort as being too small. Granted Wyndham doesn't always provide layouts but they do specify the Studio's size as ~500 SqFt. Would she have been able to visualize a space of 500 SqFt with or without the layout? Probably not. Now, what can Wyndham do about such a complaint?
Didn't she know all she had to do was to pull out her wand and cast the spell Capacious extremis and she would have had a 4BR Presidential? Silly Muggles!

I can certainly agree to #2 as well as issue #2. Preaching to the choir again. I often call people out on comments like “They never told me I would be paying such a high amount”. I often say, “yes they did. It was on the financial disclosure statement that you signed”. Or, “They never told me about the rescission period”. Again, I tell them that is was disclosed in the contract that they signed. I also often hear, “We we’re tired and just wanted to get out of there, so we didn’t read it what we were signing”. I can understand that, but that doesn’t explain why they didn’t read it the next day. I also often get “That’s not helpful.” Or “that’s just rude”. It’s not rude. It’s telling them what they need to hear so they don’t make the same mistake. I also remind them that they made, what essentially was an impulse by. Most of us know, spending $20k+ on an impulse buy is never a great idea. I also often say that they probably spent more time researching the car they last bought, then the timeshare they just bought, even though they can often cost about the same. I believe they are more mad at themselves, for believing a commissioned salesman (again, which most of us know is a bad idea), and not doing do their due diligence. It’s easier to blame the sales person (who usually deserve the blame) then admit to their own mistakes. Most people don’t want to admit they made a dumb move.


I do want to mention that I definitely never said the customer is always right. I do not believe they are. In fact, I believe that at least half the time they are wrong. Granted, I don’t have real numbers, but that’s what my gut tells me based on what I see in Facebook groups (not just the Wyndham ones), and in real life.

With all that said, people have valid complaints. Maybe not all, but a fair amount. The system is complex and often not straight forward. I am a strong believer that people should try to help themselves before asking for help from others. However, a lot of times, they don’t know where to start. Many don’t realize that there is a search feature on the Facebook groups. It’s not exactly noticeable, especially on a mobile device, which most use to navigate these groups. Once you point it out, most are grateful. Some are offended and think you’re being a jerk. The latter doesn’t bother me. The point is, not every one is there for the sake of complaining. Many are there to find answers. You usually see the complaints in the comments, not the actual posts. There are some that seem to make it their personal mission to bash Wyndham at every opportunity. I usually poke at the ones who simply say “Wyndham is a scam”, “Run now!”, “Waste if money”. I will ask them to expand on it because their comments are useless and a waste of everyone’s time including their own. Some actually do expand on it. Others say some choice words I won’t repeat here. Again, the latter doesn’t bother me, because it shows others that they are there for the sake of complaint and shouldn’t be taken seriously.

This post got a lot longer then I originally intended it to be.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Damn! Stupid me and my 80-20 analogy! I meant it in the context of America vs. Venezuela. Not in the context of IT, at all. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I will try to respond later.

Respectfully - then why bring it up at all if you were not attempting to relate it to the topic at hand? I think you were in fact trying to conflate the 80/20 rule on some level, hence my response.

 

[SNA27]

Respectfully - then why bring it up at all if you were not attempting to relate it to the topic at hand? I think you were in fact trying to conflate the 80/20 rule on some level, hence my response.

80-20 was mentioned in the context of customer complaints. We have a tendency to pander to the lowest common denominator right from public schools, academia and other spheres of civil society. It's tiresome and it's no way to come up with a reasonable system that promotes excellence.

When it comes to competitive sports, people support the best team and nobody will support participation trophies or 'also-ran' awards or 'most improved' team trophies. But in schools and other spheres of life, pandering to the LCD seems to be the norm while ignoring or mocking the high achievers as 'nerds' or 'lucky'. In Japan, Korea, China, the academic sphere is highly competitive just like sports.

Pleasing everyone is impossible and such a goal will lead to ridiculous outcomes. In an ancient fable, it leads to father and son carrying the donkey instead of the donkey carrying the son or father or both.

 

[comicbookman]

80-20 was mentioned in the context of customer complaints. We have a tendency to pander to the lowest common denominator right from public schools, academia and other spheres of civil society. It's tiresome and it's no way to come up with a reasonable system that promotes excellence.

When it comes to competitive sports, people support the best team and nobody will support participation trophies or 'also-ran' awards or 'most improved' team trophies. But in schools and other spheres of life, pandering to the LCD seems to be the norm while ignoring or mocking the high achievers as 'nerds' or 'lucky'. In Japan, Korea, China, the academic sphere is highly competitive just like sports.

Pleasing everyone is impossible and such a goal will lead to ridiculous outcomes. In an ancient fable, it leads to father and son carrying the donkey instead of the donkey carrying the son or father or both.

Actually, while you were addressing comments about complaints, you mentioned 80-20 in a societal context. Also, lots of people support participation trophies (I am not one of them) that is why they continue to exist. Sometimes it is pandering, sometimes it is encouraging (think Special Olympics) Respectfully, Your complaint seems to be more about society than Wyndham, or the use of resale points. I completely agree that pleasing everyone is impossible. These forums are a perfect example of that.

 

[SNA27]

Special Olympics is a totally different category by itself born out of the compassion of the humane.
It should not even be mentioned in the same breath as participation trophies for the fully-abled born out of the condescension of the elite.

 

[Eric B]

Red herrings are a totally different kind of fish than yellowfin tuna, too.

 

[SNA27]

Zen Koan?

Actually, 'red herring' is a misleading clue or diversionary tactic.