Wyndham Privileges: new Wyndham VIP Levels starting late 2020 [Merged]

[HitchHiker71]

I suspect that Cyrus may have a point that hasn’t actually been tested. He attempted to make this point a few posts ago. The system MUST track the type of points available by contract type. For instance, I’ve got a total of 210k RUY CWA contract points. Here’s a screenshot of what my 2019-2020 use year shows:

I’ve already made two reservations in that use year. I also have two bonus point contracts that are now at zero due to the future use year bookings.

So, on the surface, it appears as though I have 192,775 CWA points in that use year that can be used for ARP bookings, but when I attempted to book a reservation for next summer for 165000 points, the system tells me that I do not have enough points to perform the booking, and that I only have 104000 actual ARP eligible points.

Granted, nothing to do with points deposit feature, but proof that the system does in fact track the types of points being used for bookings yes?

Now let’s run a use case scenario as Cyrus indicated. In any one use year I’ve got 210k CWA and 508k PIC points. Right now I’ve got 186325 points in my CUY that are eligible for points deposit into a future use year:

Note the total for the use year at 723,550. I’ve used all but 186,325 points during the CUY. I’m eligible to transfer up to 210k via the points deposit feature. I’ve made zero bookings in the ARP window this year. So, since I haven’t used my CWA points for any CWA specific bookings, all of my points are eligible for points deposit transfer.

Cyrus asked the question, what if I had used all of my CWA points for ARP bookings, would I still be eligible to transfer what would be PIC points left in my CUY?

According to what I know, PIC points are never eligible for transfer, they must be used in the CUY in which they are initially deposited. So it is a valid question to ask about the use case Cyrus brings up. I would also be more than curious what the answer is and if this use case has actually been tested by anyone.

Our current working theory here is that ANY CWA/CWS CUY points can be transferred using the points deposit feature as long as the number of points doesn’t exceed your annually allotted CUY points amount. Is anyone in a position to test this theory for us even by making a temporary ARP booking that would consume 100% of your available ARP points and then looking at the points deposit eligibility?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Richelle]

I’m fairly certain this is incorrect because although I didn’t have deposited points yet, once the new system was in place I was able to use legacy credit pooled points for ARP (which as we all know was impossible under the old system). My sense is that for purposes of ARP, the current system doesn’t make any distinction at all regarding the origin of the points.

I suspect that may have been a bug in the system. It was not supposed to allow that. I own 292,000 at National Harbor. I have 323,000 in the credit pool. To test, I tried booking a reservation for 325,000 points with a checkin date of July 3rd, 2020. If it used my use year and credit pool, I would have had more then enough to cover that 325,000 reservation. Instead, it told me I did not have enough points. It did not try using my credit pool points.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[davejulien]

Don't talk down to me, I'm entitled to an opinion. If you have FACTS, lay them out.

First off I'm having a conversation. Not talking down to anyone.

Once points have been deposited, they will expire at the end of the Use Year selected and are not eligible to be deposited again.

This line gave me pause. It wasn't this way not long ago.

I called Owner Services and in March (3 months ago) they made an unannounced change (surprise surprise). They now calculate how many points you can deposit forward. The calculation is whatever points you use for ARP, cruises, flights, maintenance, etc... you subtract that total from your yearly RUY points and this is what you can deposit forward. You can also do this in reverse by adding all the points you used for Standard and Express bookings along with your unused RUY points and this is what you can deposit forward.

With this new calculation if you had deposited points in 2019 and ALL your bookings were ARP you would not be able to move them forward again.

This calculation IS NOT what they were doing since the new system went live in 2017. It's unfortunate that they don't announce things like this. I feel it's very important to know this type of information so you know what your points can do. Owner Services did say that they DO allow your Deposited points to be transferred to RCI. So this, in a way, helps from keeping the owner from losing them.

Hope this clears things up. Seems there was a curve-ball thrown into the situation.

 

[paxsarah]

I suspect that may have been a bug in the system. It was not supposed to allow that. I own 292,000 at National Harbor. I have 323,000 in the credit pool. To test, I tried booking a reservation for 325,000 points with a checkin date of July 3rd, 2020. If it used my use year and credit pool, I would have had more then enough to cover that 325,000 reservation. Instead, it told me I did not have enough points. It did not try using my credit pool points.

I was going to ask what the expiration date on the credit pooled points are (because isn’t the last date points could be credit pooled under the old system May 2017, which would have them expiring in May 2020, before the date you experimented with), but it looks like the next post by davejulien answers the overarching question more definitively, regardless - a recent change that tightened the parameters.

 

[Richelle]

I was going to ask what the expiration date on the credit pooled points are (because isn’t the last date points could be credit pooled under the old system May 2017, which would have them expiring in May 2020, before the date you experimented with), but it looks like the next post by davejulien answers the overarching question more definitively, regardless - a recent change that tightened the parameters.

You’re right. Mine expire in Feb 2020. I totally spaced.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Cyrus24]

I called Owner Services and in March (3 months ago) they made an unannounced change (surprise surprise). They now calculate how many points you can deposit forward. The calculation is whatever points you use for ARP, cruises, flights, maintenance, etc... you subtract that total from your yearly RUY points and this is what you can deposit forward. You can also do this in reverse by adding all the points you used for Standard and Express bookings along with your unused RUY points and this is what you can deposit forward.

With this new calculation if you had deposited points in 2019 and ALL your bookings were ARP you would not be able to move them forward again.

This calculation IS NOT what they were doing since the new system went live in 2017.

I was told this over a year ago. And, that was my point, Wyndham tracks your points usage behind the scenes, they know what the points in any given use year bucket are eligible for. Now, we agree, yes?

 

[HitchHiker71]

First off I'm having a conversation. Not talking down to anyone.



This line gave me pause. It wasn't this way not long ago.

I called Owner Services and in March (3 months ago) they made an unannounced change (surprise surprise). They now calculate how many points you can deposit forward. The calculation is whatever points you use for ARP, cruises, flights, maintenance, etc... you subtract that total from your yearly RUY points and this is what you can deposit forward. You can also do this in reverse by adding all the points you used for Standard and Express bookings along with your unused RUY points and this is what you can deposit forward.

With this new calculation if you had deposited points in 2019 and ALL your bookings were ARP you would not be able to move them forward again.

This calculation IS NOT what they were doing since the new system went live in 2017. It's unfortunate that they don't announce things like this. I feel it's very important to know this type of information so you know what your points can do. Owner Services did say that they DO allow your Deposited points to be transferred to RCI. So this, in a way, helps from keeping the owner from losing them.

Hope this clears things up. Seems there was a curve-ball thrown into the situation.

The excerpt from the online help for the points deposit has the same data that I read in the fall of 2018, including the statement about the deposited points having to be used in the use year in which they are deposited. I explicitly remember reading this last year, so it’s not new.

I think Richelle is right in part in that it’s a bug of sorts. Oftentimes when new systems are implemented like the points deposit, the core functionality is delivered via a MVP (Minimum Viable Product) approach, while additional functionalities are planned for implementation in future releases. I suspect that’s what happened here. The policy limitations were documented ahead of time, but the actual coding was rolled out over time. This could explain why some folks may have been able to transfer CUY points that were previously deposited in the past that may no longer be supported once the code was actually put in place.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ecwinch]

I would agree with Richelle's theory that the system initially had a bug that treated credit pooled points like Use Year (UY) points. Which is entirely consist with how poorly the roll-out was.

Other than that it seems like some of the tension was related to cross-talk regarding two different topics - points eligibility for ARP and eligibility for points deposit. And in the end it appears they have tightened up on both fronts.

 

[bnoble]

Edited. I'm tired of arguing about this and have better things to do.

 

[davejulien]

I was told this over a year ago. And, that was my point, Wyndham tracks your points usage behind the scenes, they know what the points in any given use year bucket are eligible for. Now, we agree, yes?

The text may have said this but that's not how it was working until 3 months ago. The bug was found and fixed so yes NOW we agree even though I don't have first hand experience with this change.

BTW, this is a calculation from what you see on the points history tab. It's not really "behind the scenes" in as much as a point-in-time history usage calculation when you go to deposit.

 

[dgalati]

Edited. I'm tired of arguing about this and have better things to do.

Yea I get what your saying. I had one this board that was very tiring and you can only hope they block you and stop responding with their nonsense.

 

[capital city]

Maybe we should start a point bucket thread so we can keep up with this a little easier instead of having it in the middle of a VIP change thread.

 

[Cyrus24]

Yea I get what your saying. I had one this board that was very tiring and you can only hope they block you and stop responding with their nonsense.

Why don’t you just go rent from an owner!!! [Comment removed by moderator]. The argument on the points deposit ‘feature’ is over, there was a conclusion. Chill out.

 

[Cyrus24]

Maybe we should start a point bucket thread so we can keep up with this a little easier instead of having it in the middle of a VIP change thread.

AGREE, I made that statement some posts back.

 

[kaljor]

I suspect that may have been a bug in the system. It was not supposed to allow that. I own 292,000 at National Harbor. I have 323,000 in the credit pool. To test, I tried booking a reservation for 325,000 points with a checkin date of July 3rd, 2020. If it used my use year and credit pool, I would have had more then enough to cover that 325,000 reservation. Instead, it told me I did not have enough points. It did not try using my credit pool points.

OK I'm going to try to answer this, but I freely admit that I don't know for sure that I'm correct, and also it's hard to grasp the concepts and that makes it hard to write about the concepts. So I'll limit my answer to just the specific example you posted about.

As I understand the system, I think based on an old post from Ron P., the system after May 2017 doesn't specifically identify buckets of points, but rather identifies "entitlements". In your example, you own 292k points at National Harbor, that means that you are "entitled" to use 292k points for ARP each year. It doesn't matter whether the points are current Use Year points or "Points Deposit" points, each and every use year you can make an ARP booking using up to 292,000 points at National Harbor.

That's how I understand it, any discussion or disagreement is welcome!

EDIT: I just re-read your post and you're talking about the Credit Pool and I was talking about the Points Deposit Feature. 2 different systems, and I know nothing about the Credit Pool system. Disregard this post!!

 

[Richelle]

OK I'm going to try to answer this, but I freely admit that I don't know for sure that I'm correct, and also it's hard to grasp the concepts and that makes it hard to write about the concepts. So I'll limit my answer to just the specific example you posted about.

As I understand the system, I think based on an old post from Ron P., the system after May 2017 doesn't specifically identify buckets of points, but rather identifies "entitlements". In your example, you own 292k points at National Harbor, that means that you are "entitled" to use 292k points for ARP each year. It doesn't matter whether the points are current Use Year points or "Points Deposit" points, each and every use year you can make an ARP booking using up to 292,000 points at National Harbor.

That's how I understand it, any discussion or disagreement is welcome!

EDIT: I just re-read your post and you're talking about the Credit Pool and I was talking about the Points Deposit Feature. 2 different systems, and I know nothing about the Credit Pool system. Disregard this post!!

Credit pool and bonus points are the only point types that have their own buckets. It’s ok, no worries.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dgalati]

Why don’t you just go rent from an owner!!! [Comment removed by moderator]. The argument on the points deposit ‘feature’ is over, there was a conclusion. Chill out.

Chillin

 

[uscav8r]

I know the sales weasels lie!!! But when they share info without trying to sell me something, I get to where I can’t tell if they are really lying or are they just lost in the previous lies....


300K for Emerald (15% in the discount window)
400K for Gold
700k for Platinum
1000K for Diamond
1400K for Titanium....


I am Gold so I asked about how this would impact me.
- Would I now be 'new' Platinum? Only if I bought 64K points.
- Well, what about my current Gold benefits? I’d be Grandfathered.
- Are New Platinum VIP benefits, at the new lower point level the same benefits as current day Platinum owners? Don’t know....

You may be current Gold, but were you grandfathered in at the previous Gold point level (600k points)? From the sound of things, you have 636k points under the old Gold, so you would not meet the new Gold-to-Platinum level. However, you should not be downgraded from your current benefits, such as 35% discount, unlimited HK and RT, and 45-day upgrades.

It doesn’t help when one cannot see the benefits granted under each renamed level.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[OutSkiing]

New tier names and point breaks as of recent sales update are:

Advantage - 300,000
Champion - 500,000
Ambassadore - 800,000
Legend - 1,100,000
Founders - 1,400,000

Weird thing is that Legend (equivalent to Platinum) starts at 1,100,000 rather than 1mm. We happen to have 1.075mm qualified points so even sales guy was confused about whether we would be ‘downgraded’ to Ambassadore (gold equivalent) or not.


Bob

 

[davejulien]

Weird thing is that Legend (equivalent to Platinum) starts at 1,100,000 rather than 1mm. We happen to have 1.075mm qualified points so even sales guy was confused about whether we would be ‘downgraded’ to Ambassadore (gold equivalent) or not.

Considering they were previously going to make PR owners who didn’t have a 1.4 million points Titanium I think they could easily do the same with Platinum to Legend without downgrading.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HitchHiker71]

New tier names and point breaks as of recent sales update are:

Advantage - 300,000
Champion - 500,000
Ambassadore - 800,000
Legend - 1,100,000
Founders - 1,400,000

Weird thing is that Legend (equivalent to Platinum) starts at 1,100,000 rather than 1mm. We happen to have 1.075mm qualified points so even sales guy was confused about whether we would be ‘downgraded’ to Ambassadore (gold equivalent) or not.


Bob

There is no written confirmation that we’ve about these new names and point levels just to be clear. Has anyone seen anything from within Wyndham that can be shared?

I’ve seen the same rumors on the FB groups but nothing on any Wyndham paper.

Regarding the increase in point levels. AFAIK anyone at current levels will be grandfathered into the equivalent levels in the new Privileges program. So if you are current VIPP you will be grandfathered into Legend even if you only have 1MM points and even if you are a grandfathered Platinum owner from the previous 2012 changes. Do NOT believe anything sales tells you until we see something official from Wyndham.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[paxsarah]

This evolution is interesting. I'm glad to see they took a note and decided not to recycle any of the current names for changed levels in the new program (at least in the current iteration).

 

[davejulien]

This evolution is interesting. I'm glad to see they took a note and decided not to recycle any of the current names for changed levels in the new program (at least in the current iteration).

People are already confused how the program works. Better to not confuse more with conflicting names. I’m Platinum so they should make me Legend to not lose benefits if this is true.

 

[OutSkiing]

There is no written confirmation that we’ve about these new names and point levels just to be clear. Has anyone seen anything from within Wyndham that can be shared?

Here is New Wyndham one pager. They said it was from corporate. Note Ambassadore goes up to 1,099,000 points and Legend starts at 1,100,000.

I agree those in the middle should be grandfathered. One Wyndham rep said we would be and the salesman said he was not sure. I believe we will be.

Bob

 

[Manzana]

View attachment 12664

Here is New Wyndham one pager. They said it was from corporate. Note Ambassadore goes up to 1,099,000 points and Legend starts at 1,100,000.

I agree those in the middle should be grandfathered. One Wyndham rep said we would be and the salesman said he was not sure. I believe we will be.

Bob

Interesting in that one pager the unlimited housekeeping is still mentioned....