Wyndham Privileges: new Wyndham VIP Levels starting late 2020 [Merged]

[wjappraise]

In theory it's 1/4 not half. If you use ALL your points within 60 days window they are at half points. You double your points which means your maintenance fee costs are spread across twice as many points you own. It's simple math.

Wow. You are still not getting it. It’s NOT 1/4. End of story. No one here is agreeing with you. Please move on!

You’ve been given several examples and still aren’t seeing it. And the examples are from VIP owners who are experienced.

Wes.

 

[ecwinch]

I’m just wondering how many rental reservations are made less than 60 days out?
You guys are making it feel like all are, making owning look ridiculous. I know some of you are thinking that anyway.
I don’t think most owners make that many reservations at the discount window especially with kids & larger units

I just hope Eric & I are on the right path with no upgrades & or discounts on GCs.
!

That’s all you ... I’m off the hook when it happens...l

 

[ecwinch]

In theory it's 1/4 not half. If you use ALL your points within 60 days window they are at half points. You double your points which means your maintenance fee costs are spread across twice as many points you own. It's simple math.

Yes, if you make all your ressies with the discount you are doubling your points and cutting your mf costs in half.

But you can’t then take BOTH the 50% discount on your points AND in your dues calculation.

 

[Braindead]

Wow. You are still not getting it. It’s NOT 1/4. End of story. No one here is agreeing with you. Please move on!

You’ve been given several examples and still aren’t seeing it. And the examples are from VIP owners who are experienced.

Wes.

I think this is what 55plus doing. Try this out:
1,000,000 points turn into
2,000,000 points worth of reservations with the 50% discount that makes 4
500,000 points reservations

4 —500k reservations with 1,000,000 points of MFs.

For 1,000,000 starting points you can make 4– 500,000 point reservations with 50% discount is net use of 250,000 points for each reservation.
Gets you another angle of what 55plus is ending up with

Where he’s wrong is he’s trying to end up with 4– 500,000 of net use points reservations not 4 at 250,000 net use of points

 

[HitchHiker71]

In theory it's 1/4 not half. If you use ALL your points within 60 days window they are at half points. You double your points which means your maintenance fee costs are spread across twice as many points you own. It's simple math.

So at the end of the day, the math has to add up 55plus - can we agree on that? So, the math specific to the MF rates, has to actually add up to what the VIP owner actually pays for their MFs on the actual number of points that they own on an annualized basis - otherwise all of the "theory" doesn't matter when it comes to the "funny money" math with respect to effective MF rates.

So let's use your own numbers as an example. Let' say that MF rate is $6.00/1000 as we have been saying all along. Let's assume this VIPP owner has exactly 1MM points. This means the VIPP owner is paying exactly $6000/year for his MFs on his 1MM points. Agreed?

Now let's use your assumptions and assume for a moment that the VIPP books every single transaction within the 60 day window. So if we double the effective points to 2MM, and cut the MF rate in half:

2MM * $3.00/1000 = $6000.00

So you are correct in your overall assumption. But, your math was wrong for the individual example, because in your actual equation - you didn't double the number of points you divided in in half, as someone else already pointed out:

It is incorrect because you are applying the 50% discount twice at the same time.

The reservation may be calculated either (100,000 points x 50%) x $6/point =$300 for the reservation OR 100,000 points x ($6/point x 50%) = $300 for the reservations.

Do you see how the 50% discount is correctly applied only once in each of the calculations?

You are saying:

My bad, it should be $3 x 500 points = $150. Half points at half the cost of maintenance fees.

Big picture. Forget free or costs for guest certificates. Forget commissions or PayPal fees. Forget free upgrades even though that has value. Bottom line: 100000 points x $6 = $600 v. 50000 points x $3 = $150. This is fact, not theory. $150 is 1/4 of $600. How is this incorrect?

So how are you incorrect? The proof is in the pudding yes? So let's use your math to actually reverse engineer what the actual VIP owner would be paying per year in MFs, which has to add up at the end of the day:

100000 points x $6 = $600.00
Assuming 1MM points: $600.00 x 10 (source: 100000 x 10=1MM real points total) = $6000.00 - matches up to what the VIP owner actually pays

VERDICT: VALID/CORRECT

50000 points x $3 = $150.00
Assuming 2MM points: $150.00 x 20 (source: 50000 x 20= 2MM effective points total) = $3000.00 - does NOT match up to what the VIP owner actually pays

VERDICT: INVALID/INCORRECT

So, according to your own math/assumptions, the MF rate MUST be a constant in order to add up to the REAL amount of MFs that the VIP owner pays:

50000 points x $6 = $300.00
Assuming 2MM points: $300.00 x 20 (source: 50000 x 20 = 2MM effective points total) = $6000.00 - matches up to what the VIP owner actually pays

VERDICT: VALID/CORRECT

Hopefully this shows you where your assumptions/equations are incorrect. Bottom line is if you play out your numbers and they do not add up to what the MFs are that are actually paid out, then your assumptions/equations are not valid.

 

[CO skier]

Or, let's use 55plus numbers where every reservation is $150.

A 1,000,000 VIP owner with mf of $6/thousand pays $6,000 per year. Right?

The VIP makes twenty 100,000 reservation using the 50% VIP discount. Right?

The VIP just wants to break even to pay the annual maintenance fees. He uses 55plus math and calculates he needs $150 per reservation to break even.

VIP sells all twenty reservations for $150 each. $150 x 20 = $3,000

VIP paid $6,000 in mf, received $3,000 for the rentals.

Bad math led to a $3,000 annual loss for the VIP. (But there are some very happy customers who will be back the next year!)

 

[chapjim]

My bad, it should be $3 x 500 points = $150. Half points at half the cost of maintenance fees.

But, my maintenance fees don't change! Wyndham bills me the same amount every month regardless of whether I make a reservation. Making a discounted reservation makes the points last longer but the maintenance fees ($/1,000 points) don't change.

 

[jwalk03]

I had no idea simple math was this difficult. Its a 50% discount, not 75%. 50% = 1/2, not 1/4. You can't take the discount twice to get to 1/4.

 

[Jimag]

Sorry. I’m a math major. You’re way off!

Your error is that you have cut the point cost by 50% and then cut the maintenance fee by 50%. This maintenance fee does NOT change.

I’m sorry to be harsh, but your math fail is misleading to others. So it needs to be exposed.

Wes.

Agreed, but it appears to be more of a logic than a math fail.

 

[wjappraise]

Math is logic.

 

[Jimag]

Math is logic.

Ah! Now we move into semantics, but I am agreeing with you in substance.

 

[55plus]

1 MIL points x $6/1000 = $6000
2 MIL points x $3/1000 = $6000

Maintenance fees co$ts are the constant, the amount of points are the variable. Book everything at half points you have 2 MIL points for the same cost as a non VIP owners 1 MIL points. It's that simple.

 

[dgalati]

i w

1 MIL points x $6/1000 = $6000
2 MIL points x $3/1000 = $6000

Maintenance fees co$ts are the constant, the amount of points are the variable. Book everything at half points you have 2 MIL points for the same cost as a non VIP owners 1 MIL points. It's that simple.

That's what I was saying. Double your points without raising you maintenance fees cuts cost per point in half.

 

[wjappraise]

i w

That's what I was saying. Double your points without raising you maintenance fees cuts cost per point in half.

In half. Not in quarter.

Wes.

 

[HitchHiker71]

1 MIL points x $6/1000 = $6000
2 MIL points x $3/1000 = $6000

Maintenance fees co$ts are the constant, the amount of points are the variable. Book everything at half points you have 2 MIL points for the same cost as a non VIP owners 1 MIL points. It's that simple.

Look at my post above. While your macro assumption is correct, your micro mathematics are wrong - which is proven out by what I posted using your own math.

 

[Richelle]

This thread went way off track. At this point, the only thing remotely close to the topic is the discounts VIPs get. Math was never my strong suit. Once they started adding letters and weird symbols into equations, it was all down hill. In high school, when they said I had to choose between Trigonometry or Calculus, I laughed and said “Hard Pass”. I forget what I ended up taking. In college I took accounting. Anyway, maybe we can get back to the topic at hand. Maybe we speculated as far as we can speculate, but maybe we can talk more about what we would like to see In the new benefits? I know it’s been touched upon, but if someone has a better idea, I’m all ears. What benefits do you see them possibly adding or what do you hope they would add? I know Wyndham reads these threads. Maybe they were watching before we veered off track?


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[Braindead]

I hope Wyndham acknowledges that controlling GCs is the key to stopping what they see as negative uses by owners.
Why do Platinum owners need 15 per million points?
That’s 1 free for every 67k points or worse at 1,001,000 they get 30, now its 1 per 34k points
Makes no sense if you don’t want them renting.
Severely limit free GCs & charge $500 or more for each additional GC
Friends or family can be an owner just like you so that’s no excuse that you need more free GCs

No discounts & or upgrades on GCs.
If a reservation has received a discount & or an upgrade it’s locked from adding a guest.
Flip side if a guest is added then the reservation is locked out of discounts & upgrades

I would severely cut free GCs on all levels of ownership not just Platinum as I only pointed out what Platinum gets

FYI— If you put a reservation in EH it doesn’t use a GC

 

[jwalk03]

I hope Wyndham acknowledges that controlling GCs is the key to stopping what they see as negative uses by owners.
Why do Platinum owners need 15 per million points?
That’s 1 free for every 67k points or worse at 1,001,000 they get 30, now its 1 per 34k points
Makes no sense if you don’t want them renting.
Severely limit free GCs & charge $500 or more for each additional GC
Friends or family can be an owner just like you so that’s no excuse that you need more free GCs

No discounts & or upgrades on GCs.
If a reservation has received a discount & or an upgrade it’s locked from adding a guest.
Flip side if a guest is added then the reservation is locked out of discounts & upgrades

I would severely cut free GCs on all levels of ownership not just Platinum as I only pointed out what Platinum gets

FYI— If you put a reservation in EH it doesn’t use a GC

As a frequent rentee I hate this idea. And I have a hard time believing they will do it. Wyndham likes some level of renting- it brings in new suckers for them to sell too! EH is soo much more expensive than renting I’m not sure why anyone uses it to be honest!!

 

[dgalati]

As a frequent rentee I hate this idea. And I have a hard time believing they will do it. Wyndham likes some level of renting- it brings in new suckers for them to sell too! EH is soo much more expensive than renting I’m not sure why anyone uses it to be honest!!

EH is the biggest mega renter at a inflated price!

 

[CO skier]

And I have a hard time believing they will do it. Wyndham likes some level of renting- it brings in new suckers for them to sell too!

There were a number of Wyndham renters who expressed the same thinking a couple years ago that Wyndham would "never get rid of cancel-rebook" because it brought in so many new prospects.

Wyndham did not get rid of cancel-rebook, but things did change.

Why would anyone who rents a bargain reservation sign on for an $18,000+ purchase? I would be thinking, "I can just rent from Joe Renter for the next 18 years at the same price and not have to worry about an annual commitment and selling my ownership 20 years from now".

I think the tour sales rate for the Wyndham 4 days/3 nights promotions are much more lucrative than the conversions from owner rentals. Wyndham does not need owner rentals to fill their sales rooms.

 

[Sandy VDH]

The problem is you don't GET 2M points, you get the value of 2M, but you actually only receive 1M.

Points are $6/K, You have a 1M so $6000 annually.

Your points NEVER double, it just costs less of them to book a night during the discount window. So the 100K reservation is NOT still 100K when it is discounted it is 50K. However you have a perceived value of a 100K reservation, but not an actual cost of 100k. So 50K at 6K, would cost $300 Period.

I have a math degree at @55plus fails.

I keep track of how much perceived value I receive a year, but I don't really get those points, I just get the appearance of it. I track my annual received and since the cancel and rebook is gone it has gone down significantly.

I will have to get back to my tracking spread sheet to let you know what trend has been. I track, the actual points cost, the non-discounted value of what I received (including discounts and free upgrades). On a 1M account it has dropped from about nearly 5M to just over 2M.

 

[ecwinch]

This thread went way off track. At this point, the only thing remotely close to the topic is the discounts VIPs get. Math was never my strong suit. Once they started adding letters and weird symbols into equations, it was all down hill. In high school, when they said I had to choose between Trigonometry or Calculus, I laughed and said “Hard Pass”. I forget what I ended up taking. In college I took accounting. Anyway, maybe we can get back to the topic at hand. Maybe we speculated as far as we can speculate, but maybe we can talk more about what we would like to see In the new benefits? I know it’s been touched upon, but if someone has a better idea, I’m all ears. What benefits do you see them possibly adding or what do you hope they would add? I know Wyndham reads these threads. Maybe they were watching before we veered off track?


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That is part of the obfuscation strategy... we bury these conversations in an unrelated thread..... just look back at the last VIP long thread from the 2017 changes..

 

[CO skier]

That is part of the obfuscation strategy... we bury these conversations in an unrelated thread..... just look back at the last VIP long thread from the 2017 changes..

If this is the 2017 thread you are referring to

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/the-new-club-wyndham-website-general-discussion.256063/

What is the "obfuscation strategy"? This is just another discussion in a timeshare forum.

I found the sidetracks, non-sequiturs, digressions, speculations, “guarantees” of being able to rent reservations to be at least as interesting as the original intent about the new website in 2017. Those were the good olde days.

The perspective that a few months hindsight after a “revelation” can provide is amazing. Will the same occur after the details of Privileges are revealed?

 

[dgalati]

The problem is you don't GET 2M points, you get the value of 2M, but you actually only receive 1M.

Points are $6/K, You have a 1M so $6000 annually.

Your points NEVER double, it just costs less of them to book a night during the discount window. So the 100K reservation is NOT still 100K when it is discounted it is 50K. However you have a perceived value of a 100K reservation, but not an actual cost of 100k. So 50K at 6K, would cost $300 Period.

I have a math degree at @55plus fails.

I keep track of how much perceived value I receive a year, but I don't really get those points, I just get the appearance of it. I track my annual received and since the cancel and rebook is gone it has gone down significantly.

I will have to get back to my tracking spread sheet to let you know what trend has been. I track, the actual points cost, the non-discounted value of what I received (including discounts and free upgrades). On a 1M account it has dropped from about nearly 5M to just over 2M.

Yes you are spot on. Your points don't double you just receive a huge discount booking in the 60 day window. It costs me less to rent a VIP points at their discount of 1/2 off instead of using double of mine. $6 x 100,000 non VIP or $6 x 50,000 plus guest fee Kind of like a buy one get one free off at the grocery store it is the perception of getting some thing free!

 

[Cyrus24]

So, have we learned anything new about Privileges and/or grandfathered VIP benefits? It’s been kind of quiet on that front.