Wyndham is closing a handful of legacy resorts - dedicated chart/tracker located in the first post for this unfolding set of events

[TUGBrian]

I think I asked that question about fifty pages back

probably a ton of duplicates/repeats in the thread as its so unbelievably popular and active!

doubt thatll get better either as we eek closer to 12/31!

 

[dioxide45]

these intervals have been excluded from certified exit for as long as i can recall, id imagine they own most of them via owners simply defaulting...id really need to know the innerworkings of how defaults work there as you would imagine those intervals would be deeded back to the association itself (not wyndham)...but who knows what sort of legal language was written decades ago or worse, has been attempted to be modified covenant/bylaw wise over the years. especially across multiple resorts in multiple states!

I know of some systems that refuse to take action on defaults to avoid having to deal with the deed transfer back to the resort/association/developer/whomever and as such now be on the hook for annual dues, perhaps thats the case here but its reached critical mass? either way, it would seem that wyndham is going to exercise whatever legal loopholes or such exist to avoid being the ones left holding the bag when this all plays out (or at least as little of the bag as possible).

I know that with Marriott resorts, many of the HOAs signed buyback agreements with Marriott. When a week was foreclosed, Marriott would take it back from the HOA. In many of those agreements, the only cost to Marriott was to cover the past due and perhaps the legal fees. It allowed them to aquire deeds to fee the points trust.

I doubt, if Wyndham was excluding these properties from CE, that they would have had similar buyback agreements.

 

[dioxide45]

thats nice of them to not charge maintenance fees for 2026! wish other resorts would make that announcement if their situatoins are the same.

whos going to pay the costs that still apply even though the resort is not in operation? insurance, utilities, etc? reserves legally cant be used to pay those things (at least not in florida)

It is possible for the HOA to obtain financing during or prior to bankruptcy filing. How many large companies secure more financing right before they file Chapter 11. Lots. So they could use those loans to fund the costs to keep things going through the process.

Is it also possible that a bankruptcy judge could approve the moving of funds from reserves to operating?

 

[Jan M.]

We are not taking the CWA offer since we already have a transfer in process from another resort for the same amount of points and lower MF.

There are several things that are worth considering for you and others who will be making the choice. The CWA points Wyndham is offering would be developer points. I don't see how they wouldn't be. Well actually I do see how it could be done but I'm not giving Wyndham any ideas, lol. It's more that I don't see why they wouldn't be developer points because then Wyndham sales can talk up the benefits of buying more developer points to reach a VIP level.

If you don't have any other developer points, having them could be a good thing as I'd think you'd then have access to the Worldmark inventory. It's my understanding that resale point only owners don't get that.

If you don't have any other CWA points, having some gives you access to that inventory prior to 10 months. I'm very quick to say that CWA maintenance fees are high and I don't recommend owning a large amount of them if you don't need to book 3 or 4 bedroom units, holiday or summer weeks, at high demand resorts that have a lot of inventory in CWA. However even I own a small amount of CWA points, 100k, and don't consider the higher maintenance fees on a smaller amount of points to be significant.

There's a downside to owners who only have resale points. If the CWA points they get are developer, like I'm guessing they will be, they'll have to deal with using points from the two separate point buckets. Some owners consider that a major headache and others deal with it more successfully.

 

[TUGBrian]

It is possible for the HOA to obtain financing during or prior to bankruptcy filing. How many large companies secure more financing right before they file Chapter 11. Lots. So they could use those loans to fund the costs to keep things going through the process.

Is it also possible that a bankruptcy judge could approve the moving of funds from reserves to operating?

it may simply be a matter of them doing it and hoping an owner wont complain or dispute etc. might be one of those things where it doesnt really accomplish anything positive for either side to make a stink about.

I as an owner in this situation wouldnt file a complaint about the association using all available funds to pay the bills in THIS situation...especially when the alternative would be for the resort to require the owners to pay maintenance fees instead!

this is all just hypothetical anyway without knowing different laws in different states...perhaps there is some sort of emergency clause or similar that allows for a resort to BORROW from the reserve fund in this case etc...and after the sale is completed it wouldnt really matter. its all the same money, just treated differently in some accountants books somewhere!

 

[dioxide45]

it may simply be a matter of them doing it and hoping an owner wont complain or dispute etc. might be one of those things where it doesnt really accomplish anything positive for either side to make a stink about.

I as an owner in this situation wouldnt file a complaint about the association using all available funds to pay the bills in THIS situation...especially when the alternative would be for the resort to require the owners to pay maintenance fees instead!

this is all just hypothetical anyway without knowing different laws in different states...perhaps there is some sort of emergency clause or similar that allows for a resort to BORROW from the reserve fund in this case etc...and after the sale is completed it wouldnt really matter. its all the same money, just treated differently in some accountants books somewhere!

I wonder if Wyndham would be there to happily loan the HOA money to cover operating costs? Perhaps at a high interest rate? I suspect any such loans would have to be approved by the bankruptcy court. I would hope that most properties don't have other outstanding debts except perhaps some unpaid invoices.

 

[TUGBrian]

would be curious to see what the 2026 budget looks like with the resort not being in operation.

 

[CO skier]

one right above it, not sure why it didnt cite the poster

I am posting from the future, again. It will not make total sense to everyone until after 12/31/2025.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Bankruptcy court judges have to approve everything and probably are very capable of finding abuse of process where it exists.

Right, I meant this.

 

[CO skier]

if Wyndham was excluding these properties from CE

What evidence is there that "Wyndham was excluding these properties from CE" over the past 10 years?

There is counter evidence that these resorts would have been buried under bad debt had Wyndham not been accepting these deeds through Certified Exit and paying the maintenance fees over the past 10 years.

 

[paxsarah]

I think it is a little different, isn't it? Didn't Club Wyndham become Club Wyndham because they acquired Fairfield. Fairfield was the system prior to Club Wyndham. Fairfield resorts were all they had at one time. Then Wyndham began developing their own properties in the system.

With HICV, they were already a system that existed. They just acquired another timeshare system. Kind of like how Hilton Grand Vacations acquired Bluegreen and Diamond Resorts.

You’re correct that Fairfield was the origin of the whole current system. Fairfield was bought by Cendant, then a few years later Cendant also bought the Wyndham hotel brand and slapped the Wyndham name on the timeshares. When Cendant broke up/spun off multiple companies soon afterward, Wyndham Worldwide emerged which was the timeshare and hotel products.

 

[HitchHiker71]

There are several things that are worth considering for you and others who will be making the choice. The CWA points Wyndham is offering would be developer points. I don't see how they wouldn't be. Well actually I do see how it could be done but I'm not giving Wyndham any ideas, lol. It's more that I don't see why they wouldn't be developer points because then Wyndham sales can talk up the benefits of buying more developer points to reach a VIP level.

This assertion is incorrect. If the contracts in scope are resale, the granted CWA points will be resale. Wyndham isn't going to gift resale owners retail points during this swap. Not sure why anyone would think otherwise honestly.

 

[comicbookman]

thats nice of them to not charge maintenance fees for 2026! wish other resorts would make that announcement if their situatoins are the same.

whos going to pay the costs that still apply even though the resort is not in operation? insurance, utilities, etc? reserves legally cant be used to pay those things (at least not in florida)

That, I expect will come out of the reserves.

 

[Floridaman76]

What evidence is there that "Wyndham was excluding these properties from CE" over the past 10 years?

There is counter evidence that these resorts would have been buried under bad debt had Wyndham not been accepting these deeds through Certified Exit and paying the maintenance fees over the past 10 years.

Plenty of evidence if you have been paying attention. People post here and on facebook all the time about this, and almost exclusively people with weeks never get their week taken back through CE. Or in that case, ANY of these deeded properties. They were all on the "no way" list for CE.

Unless... magic, within the last month, they try to CE one of these affected properties, Wyndham now wants them. Funny how that happens.

 

[bellesgirl]

would be curious to see what the 2026 budget looks like with the resort not being in operation.

The OIRC HOA provided that information in the form of a limited budget, vs a full budget if the resort stays open.

 

[comicbookman]

You’re correct that Fairfield was the origin of the whole current system. Fairfield was bought by Cendant, then a few years later Cendant also bought the Wyndham hotel brand and slapped the Wyndham name on the timeshares. When Cendant broke up/spun off multiple companies soon afterward, Wyndham Worldwide emerged which was the timeshare and hotel products.

Plenty of evidence if you have been paying attention. People post here and on facebook all the time about this, and almost exclusively people with weeks never get their week taken back through CE. Or in that case, ANY of these deeded properties. They were all on the "no way" list for CE.

Unless... magic, within the last month, they try to CE one of these affected properties, Wyndham now wants them. Funny how that happens.

That is not actually correct. while the list of resorts that Wyndham was taking back changed constantly, they rarely, if ever, told anyone (at least as reported) that the reason for not taking back was because the deed was for unconverted weeks. It was always because the specific resort was not currently on the list. Further we have had a lot of reports of the closing resorts being DROPPED from the list recently. Maybe you should pay attention to the facts.

 

[dioxide45]

That is not actually correct. while the list of resorts that Wyndham was taking back changed constantly, they rarely, if ever, told anyone (at least as reported) that the reason for not taking back was because the deed was for unconverted weeks. It was always because the specific resort was not currently on the list. Further we have had a lot of reports of the closing resorts being DROPPED from the list recently. Maybe you should pay attention to the facts.

Are there really actual fact or just second hand reports of what may or may not have actually happened? Did Wyndham publish a defined list of what they accepted back via CE and what they didn't?

 

[Floridaman76]

That is not actually correct. while the list of resorts that Wyndham was taking back changed constantly, they rarely, if ever, told anyone (at least as reported) that the reason for not taking back was because the deed was for unconverted weeks. It was always because the specific resort was not currently on the list. Further we have had a lot of reports of the closing resorts being DROPPED from the list recently. Maybe you should pay attention to the facts.

At this point you are just making stuff up.

I challenge you to find a report of ANYONE getting Wyndham to take back a contract or a week at ANY of the resorts being closed prior to July of this year.

You will not find ANYONE who got Wyndham to take these resorts through CE because they didn't want them. Period. There's been a lot of posts on Facebook saying WYN wouldn't take them back. So the evidence is on my side.

Until it was advantageous for them to take them back (so they don't have to pay people out...)

Add to this list ALL of the former legacy Fairfield properties, Pagosa, Edisto, Shawnee.

Wyndham hasn't wanted any of these properties back since they first started Ovations/CE.

Yes, the "list changes", but I guarantee you it never included FAIRFIELD GLADE or SHAWNEE. To say otherwise is just fantasy...

 

[CO skier]

You will not find ANYONE who got Wyndham to take these resorts through CE because they didn't want them. Period. There's been a lot of posts on Facebook saying WYN wouldn't take them back. So the evidence is on my side.

How, then, did Wyndham come to own an overwhelming controlling interest at these resorts?

 

[Floridaman76]

How, then, did Wyndham come to own an overwhelming controlling interest at these resorts?

Foreclosures

 

[dioxide45]

Foreclosures

But the question remains. The HOA is the one foreclosing. The weeks go back to the HOA, not Wyndham. How did Wyndham come upon so many weeks? Did Wyndham have a buyback agreement in place with all the HOAs to buyback foreclosed deeds and put them on their books? I doubt many of these deeds had Wyndham held mortgages against them.

 

[bnoble]

Did Wyndham publish a defined list of what they accepted back via CE and what they didn't?

I don't believe so, and would not expect one---it limits their ability to make it a moving target without risking additional owner ire.

I'm sure some Exit representatives told people some reasons why their week would not be taken, and some of those reasons might even be true.

 

[paxsarah]

Add to this list ALL of the former legacy Fairfield properties, Pagosa, Edisto, Shawnee.

Wyndham hasn't wanted any of these properties back since they first started Ovations/CE.

I gave back a Pagosa contract in 2019 and Flagstaff (which isn't on the current list but is undeniably a former legacy Fairfield property) in 2023.

Further we have had a lot of reports of the closing resorts being DROPPED from the list recently. Maybe you should pay attention to the facts.

There's one owner on Facebook who called Certified Exit very soon after the news dropped and had his Bentley Brook and CWA contracts accepted.

 

[paxsarah]

But the question remains. The HOA is the one foreclosing. The weeks go back to the HOA, not Wyndham. How did Wyndham come upon so many weeks? Did Wyndham have a buyback agreement in place with all the HOAs to buyback foreclosed deeds and put them on their books? I doubt many of these deeds had Wyndham held mortgages against them.

I wouldn't be surprised - I think I've seen an HOA board member mention this somewhere before. Most of these resort HOAs aren't in the business of selling (or even renting) stray contracts separately from Wyndham's sales operations. They have agreements with Wyndham for lots of things, and taking over foreclosed contracts is probably one of them.

 

[CO skier]

Add to this list ALL of the former legacy Fairfield properties, Pagosa, Edisto, Shawnee.

Wyndham hasn't wanted any of these properties back since they first started Ovations/CE.

Wyndham has had an agreement for at least the last eight years with the Pagosa HOAs to pay up to $2,000 in foreclosure costs and take back deeds at Wyndham Pagosa. That and Certified Exit (why pay up to $2,000 and go through foreclosure versus having the owner sign it over for free?) is why the bad debt is only about 5%.