Wyndham is closing a handful of legacy resorts - dedicated chart/tracker located in the first post for this unfolding set of events

[Floridaman76]

But bankruptcy can force the sale of real property.

But not before the ownership of the intervals is dealt with is my point.

The underlying property cannot be sold until each individual interval is wholly owner by the seller.

 

[dioxide45]

But not before the ownership of the intervals is dealt with is my point.

The underlying property cannot be sold until each individual interval is wholly owner by the seller.

You do raise a good question. What control do the bankruptcy courts have over the individual deeds that are held by individual owners who are not the ones filing for bankruptcy? If I was filing for personal bankruptcy a court could order my timeshare deed sold to pay for my debts. These deeds aren't owned by the HOA that is filing bankruptcy. I guess we will have to see how things play out.

 

[jp10558]

You do raise a good question. What control do the bankruptcy courts have over the individual deeds that are held by individual owners who are not the ones filing for bankruptcy? If I was filing for personal bankruptcy a court could order my timeshare deed sold to pay for my debts. These deeds aren't owned by the HOA that is filing bankruptcy. I guess we will have to see how things play out.

I believe if you're a partial owner of property, you can be forced to sell it to make whole other owners who want out, but when it's like 5 people for a small value of property, it's usually not at all worth the court time, especially because who knows how the court will rule. In that case of course, the court would encourage the owners wanting to keep the property to offer some buyout amount out of court to the people wanting to sell first. I can't imagine that would happen in this situation.

 

[Floridaman76]

But bankruptcy can force the sale of real property.

But not if there's not clear title... which there absolutely would not be with hundreds or thousands of interval owners with fractional deeds...

 

[Floridaman76]

I believe if you're a partial owner of property, you can be forced to sell it to make whole other owners who want out, but when it's like 5 people for a small value of property, it's usually not at all worth the court time, especially because who knows how the court will rule. In that case of course, the court would encourage the owners wanting to keep the property to offer some buyout amount out of court to the people wanting to sell first. I can't imagine that would happen in this situation.

They absolutely CAN be forced to sell, and honestly the bankruptcy trustee in all likelihood sets the rate at which individual owners will be paid, and that will be non-negotiable, but they absolutely cannot sell the underlying real property with hundreds or thousands of interval owners with fractional deeds to that real property. Or put another way, property cant be sold BEFORE the interval owners are removed.

That must be cleared before the underlying property could be sold.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

I was able to meet with our Wyndham contacts last week and got answers to a few questions as follows:

Q: Will the CWA points swap be 1:1 for points - pretty much regardless of what contract you hold?

A: Yes.

Q: Will the points swap apply to weeks-based contracts, and if so, how will the amount of points be determined?

A: Yes. Points will be determined via the value of the week(s) contracts held via the official points charts published in the members directory.

Q: Will Wyndham communicate with the impacted owners at some point that are eligible for the points swaps?

A: Yes - after the HOA votes have occurred and the disposition of the resorts is determined, Wyndham will notify the impacted owners via written correspondence as to how to pursue the point swap option.

I'll update this post with a few more Q&A's in a bit. I've also added a new FAQ SECTION to the 1st post to start capturing these types of questions and answers.

Thank you for keeping us updated!

 

[hnybee09]

wait out the process and cross your fingers the resort properties get sold and you get a cut of the proceeds after the bankruptcy process completes (meanwhile youd still have to pay your 2026 fees)

This has been a lot to read, decipher and digest lol. My question is this we have a contract at BB of 154,000 points with a use year of Jan 1 - Dec 31, what happens when we keep paying our MF into 2026 on those points do we still get to use them or will we pay to then lose them when the resorts closes or is disposed of? We are not taking the CWA offer since we already have a transfer in process from another resort for the same amount of points and lower MF.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

I would surmise the chosen bankruptcy approach will accelerate any such process and reduce complexity

An under appreciated aspect to all of this is the fact that Wyndham appears to be abusing the bankruptcy process and I’m not at all convinced this doesn’t come back to bite them at some point.

 

[chapjim]

An under appreciated aspect to all of this is the fact that Wyndham appears to be abusing the bankruptcy process and I’m not at all convinced this doesn’t come back to bite them at some point.

Using, not abusing.

 

[hjsweet2002]

Maybe they meant abusing owners by using bankruptcy process

 

[CO skier]

1. wait out the process and cross your fingers the resort properties get sold and you get a cut of the proceeds after the bankruptcy process completes (meanwhile youd still have to pay your 2026 fees)

what happens when we keep paying our MF into 2026 on those points do we still get to use them or will we pay to then lose them when the resorts closes or is disposed of?

It is too early in the process to jump to the conclusion that 2026 maintenance fees will be due at resorts that close 12/31/2025. Wyndham certainly will not be sending out the maintenance fee bills.

What happened at Pagosa Mountain Meadows is a likely outcome. Owners there learned that they were free of the 2025 maintenance fees only a month before 2025.

 

[CO skier]

The main reason for my opinions changing on this rely on the timeshare replacement laws that would force Wyndham to provide equal interval replacements into the system for any weeks/points/intervals they sold/removed.

None of the weeks at the affected resorts are "Wyndham" weeks. Some of the weeks, including Club Wyndham Access, are converted to points in Club Wyndham, which is an exchange system, not a timeshare subject to "replacement laws."

"(b) Changed Circumstances. If the Trustee, in its discretion, has determined that a Property Interest (or Use Rights therein) should be withdrawn due to circumstances that render the Accommodation(s) applicable to such Property Interest unsuitable for continued use in the Plan, the Trustee shall have the authority to cause such Property Interest/Use Rights to be withdrawn from this Trust Agreement and to cause all Points attributable to the withdrawn Property Interest/Use Rights to be canceled and the Members owning such withdrawn Property Interest/Use Rights shall no longer have the right to participate in the Plan and shall no longer be Members of the Association. The Trustee shall execute any and all documents necessary to reconvey the Use Rights and/or transfer title to the withdrawn Property Interest to the appropriate Member or Wyndham, if necessary."

 

[TUGBrian]

None of the weeks at the affected resorts are "Wyndham" weeks. Some of the weeks, including Club Wyndham Access, are converted to points in Club Wyndham, which is an exchange system, not a timeshare subject to "replacement laws."

I dont think thats the case for many of these resorts, especially the older fairfield resorts.

It was pretty clear in the conversation that wyndham most certainly has direct ownership of significant % of inventory at the resorts in question.

 

[TUGBrian]

It is too early in the process to jump to the conclusion that 2026 maintenance fees will be due at resorts that close 12/31/2025. Wyndham certainly will not be sending out the maintenance fee bills.

What happened at Pagosa Mountain Meadows is a likely outcome. Owners there learned that they were free of the 2025 maintenance fees only a month before 2025.

View attachment 115680

thats nice of them to not charge maintenance fees for 2026! wish other resorts would make that announcement if their situatoins are the same.

whos going to pay the costs that still apply even though the resort is not in operation? insurance, utilities, etc? reserves legally cant be used to pay those things (at least not in florida)

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Using, not abusing.

Maybe. I’m not convinced, but then again, I’m far from an expert in bankruptcy law. However, what I do know from where it touches on my areas of expertise, is that in general there needs to be a showing of insolvency. Is the Bentley Brook HOA really insolvent? Doesn’t sound like it to me.

The thing to always remember is that, just because Wyndham’s in-house counsel thinks something is a sound and legal tactic, doesn’t necessarily make it so.

 

[CO skier]

It was pretty clear in the conversation that wyndham most certainly has direct ownership of significant % of inventory at the resorts in question.

These are reacquired ownership interests, which puts Wyndham in exactly the same position as any individual owner. It is the resort that is the timeshare.

Wyndham is not extracting its owned weeks from the timeshare plan, the whole resort is going away as a timeshare. When the resort ceases as a timeshare, Wyndham still owns the weeks but cancels the Club Wyndham points associated with the owned weeks (CWA) and any points associated with weeks converted to CW by individual owners. Wyndham is then just a tenant-in-common with the other owners at the resort.

 

[chapjim]

Maybe. I’m not convinced, but then again, I’m far from an expert in bankruptcy law. However, what I do know from where it touches on my areas of expertise, is that in general there needs to be a showing of insolvency. Is the Bentley Brook HOA really insolvent? Doesn’t sound like it to me.

The thing to always remember is that, just because Wyndham’s in-house counsel thinks something is a sound and legal tactic, doesn’t necessarily make it so.

This is not true, especially not true of Chapter 11.

Wyndham (in this case meaning the Board of Directors of Wyndham Orlando International) have engaged outside counsel.

 

[silentg]

So Wyndham is closing mostly older Fairfield resorts that they took over? Kind of what HICV is doing with the Silverleaf Timeshares that they acquired.

 

[dioxide45]

I dont think thats the case for many of these resorts, especially the older fairfield resorts.

It was pretty clear in the conversation that wyndham most certainly has direct ownership of significant % of inventory at the resorts in question.

What post are you quoting here? I can't seem to find it in the last few pages of the thread.

 

[TUGBrian]

What post are you quoting here? I can't seem to find it in the last few pages of the thread.

one right above it, not sure why it didnt cite the poster

 

[chapjim]

Maybe they meant abusing owners by using bankruptcy process

I don't know what he meant. What he said is, ". . . Wyndham appears to be abusing the bankruptcy process. . ."

Owners voted on using the bankruptcy process. Yeah, yeah, I know that Wyndham was probably the majority owner.

Bankruptcy court judges have to approve everything and probably are very capable of finding abuse of process where it exists.

 

[dioxide45]

So Wyndham is closing mostly older Fairfield resorts that they took over? Kind of what HICV is doing with the Silverleaf Timeshares that they acquired.

I think it is a little different, isn't it? Didn't Club Wyndham become Club Wyndham because they acquired Fairfield. Fairfield was the system prior to Club Wyndham. Fairfield resorts were all they had at one time. Then Wyndham began developing their own properties in the system.

With HICV, they were already a system that existed. They just acquired another timeshare system. Kind of like how Hilton Grand Vacations acquired Bluegreen and Diamond Resorts.

 

[dioxide45]

I dont think thats the case for many of these resorts, especially the older fairfield resorts.

It was pretty clear in the conversation that wyndham most certainly has direct ownership of significant % of inventory at the resorts in question.

Why would Wyndham hold these weeks on their own corporate balance sheet? What would be the benefit in doing that? Why not convey them all to CWA and sell the points. They must be sitting on a butt load of unsold inventory in CWA to also then have a butt load of weeks they are holding themselves.

 

[TUGBrian]

these intervals have been excluded from certified exit for as long as i can recall, id imagine they own most of them via owners simply defaulting...id really need to know the innerworkings of how defaults work there as you would imagine those intervals would be deeded back to the association itself (not wyndham)...but who knows what sort of legal language was written decades ago or worse, has been attempted to be modified covenant/bylaw wise over the years. especially across multiple resorts in multiple states!

I know of some systems that refuse to take action on defaults to avoid having to deal with the deed transfer back to the resort/association/developer/whomever and as such now be on the hook for annual dues, perhaps thats the case here but its reached critical mass? either way, it would seem that wyndham is going to exercise whatever legal loopholes or such exist to avoid being the ones left holding the bag when this all plays out (or at least as little of the bag as possible).

 

[rapmarks]

thats nice of them to not charge maintenance fees for 2026! wish other resorts would make that announcement if their situatoins are the same.

whos going to pay the costs that still apply even though the resort is not in operation? insurance, utilities, etc? reserves legally cant be used to pay those things (at least not in florida)

I think I asked that question about fifty pages back