Wyndham is closing a handful of legacy resorts - dedicated chart/tracker located in the first post for this unfolding set of events

[jp10558]

It also occurred to me yesterday, regarding your point about how cheap BB is, that many of the legacy resorts require much lower points values to book. Since Wyndham cannot change the points values, if they want at a macro level to discourage use of resorts with lower points values, the only real option is to remove these resorts from the system over time. Using a certain logic, taking this approach means owners then have to use their points at the newer resorts that require higher points values to book, and that means owners are more likely to buy more points to cover the same amount of vacationing right? So if own 1.4mm points today and can vacation for 45 nights total using a mix of legacy and non-legacy resorts, tomorrow I may need 1.6-1.7mm points to cover those same 45 nights. Pure speculation on my part of course. Thoughts?

Yea, BB is cheap on Extra Vacations / Last Call a lot in the summer too. I've never stayed but had considered it. The thing is - I still don't really get what it costs Wyndham specifically to keep these resorts outside of CWA ownership there. Could this all be that they're selling off their CWA holdings cause of high MFs? I mean doesn't everything else make Wyndham more money as management fees (higher price == higher management fees)? And if the SAs / MFs are going to be a death spiral, why not just suggest a normal wind down of the TS vote for owners? I guess that's my confusion.

On the negative for Wyndham IMO is - they're potentially losing a lot of "dots on a map" in areas where they have an advantage vs the other big systems IMHO - HGVC has nothing in the Berkshires or outside of NYC north of MB. HIVC has some stuff around there, but Wyndham was "the obvious choice" for the NE and East Coast in a lot of ways, especially if you were looking outside of SC and FL. Not saying they're going to lose a lot of sales over this - but it seems like it's going to weaken the pitch a bit.

 

[CO skier]

King Cotton is Presidential, i'm not sure getting CWA in swap is a very equitable trade.

King Cotton is the least expensive there and much lower than CWA. I have no idea what they will do with presidential owners and the "perks" we get for being presidential. We'll lose all of that with CWA.

Are people letting their reptilian brains get the best of them during this information vacuum and thinking in only binary terms?

Is there any reason why, in a special case such as Presidential Reserve, affected owners would not be offered a swap into another PR resort? Atlanta has very good maintenance fees and there is probably a lot of unsold inventory for Wyndham to offer, there or at other PR resorts.

 

[dandjane1]

Also per the 2 Facebook posts I’ve seen (so also take as rumor): 2 associations (not all) at Edisto, some number of associations at Fairfield Glade.

If only 2 of the Edisto Associations are going out, it's probably Sea Palms and Sea Oaks, which have been selling off for several years. Every time we visit, more and more private mail boxes are seen. The beach front units at Bay Point and the nearby King Cotton Villas will probably remain, as they're newer, and probably see more guest activity. One has to be intrigued as to who is benefitting from the gradual sales of SP and SO - my guess is it's Wyndham. Ocean Ridge (Edisto) is in the heart of the "low country", and very susceptible to hurricane damages. One of our fave places - nothing to do except the local museum, and watch the sunsets. Many plantations available within an hours' drive.

 

[CO skier]

I'm SUPER frustrated that we are hearing about this in the ether and they are not being transparent with us about what's to come. So unethical (and, no, I'm not surprised)

,,, there will be limited information available until the public announcement is sent sometime soon - hopefully as soon as today [Friday, July 11] but I'd guess sometime next week.

 

[dandjane1]

Prioritize as follows:

1. Resort age/condition - target older “legacy” resorts - with high special assessment potential due to age and condition
2. Low owner occupancy rates - lots of renters or exchanges as opposed to actual owners using the resort
3. Location isn’t the best or in an area that is no longer preferable/popular
4. Higher MFs - though this isn’t the highest priority
5. For areas with multiple resorts - pick the oldest and least occupied resort in the worst condition (such as Star Island in the Orlando area for example).

I haven’t had much time to think through a list but off the top of my head I’d add:

Wyndham Shawnee (meets all of the above criteria)
Wyndham Skyline Tower (AC has gone way downhill over the last 20 years).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'd also add Lake Marion at Santee, SC.

 

[dioxide45]

The solution to all this is simple (but who knows what may happen until more details are announced). Take one resort where the timeshare regime terminates 12/31/2025.

Owners might be given these options for the 2026 points that went "poof" at the resort January 1, 2026:

1. Cancel the reservation(s).

2. Keep the reservation(s) using "other" points in the account (It does not matter that the points are all in one bucket. In fact, it makes the accounting easier.) Have used all 600,000 points for the 2026 Use Year and 200,000 of those points just went "poof" on January 1, 2026? Cancel enough reservation(s) to cover the 200,000 points. Maybe special dispensation will be given to borrow 2027 points to cover existing reservations.

3. Keep the reservation(s) and pay $12/1000 points to cover the deficit. People may disbelieve/dismiss this, but there is ample historical precedent.

4. If converted fixed week owners have prepaid for 2026 points, they might have the option to cancel for a refund, or Wyndham cover the points involved using the stock of unsold points.

Paying maintenance fees doesn't necessarily give you the right to the usage. They could just as easily refund those fees if the resort is closed in 2026.

 

[CO skier]

Paying maintenance fees doesn't necessarily give you the right to the usage. They could just as easily refund those fees if the resort is closed in 2026.

Of course, and that would certainly occur for those owners who opt out of Wyndham, but the context was for existing reservations using 2026 points that may not exist after January 1, 2026 (in the example). Owners could cancel some or all of their reservations using 2026 points that would not exist after January 1, 2026, or Wyndham could use its stock of unsold points to cover the reservations owners choose to keep (maybe).

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

POSSIBLE IMPACTED RESORTS LIST - SUBJECT TO CHANGE/CONFIRMATION:

1. CONFIRMED BY WYNDHAM: Fairfield Glade (Tennessee) MF: $6.34/k
2. Bentley Brook (Massachusetts) MF: $7.62/k based on TUG Marketplace listing;
3. Patriot’s Place (Virginia) MF: Last Known to be $7.65/k in 2018 when CWA was $5.76. Extrapolated Maintenance Fee based on average CWA increases: $10.79/k
4. Fairfield Bay (Arkansas) 2024 MF: $6.92/k
5. Lake Lure (North Carolina)): MF: Unknown;
6. Star Island (Florida) MF: $6.97 in 2020 when CWA was $6.28/k. Extrapolated Maintenance Fee: $9.02/k
7. Orlando International - was $7.16/k in 2024 when CWA was $7.65/k
8. Edisto (South Carolina) MF: varies wildly by phase, but most expensive phase $8.66/k in 2017 when CWA was $5.60/k, Extrapolated Maintenance Fee: $12.81/k
9. Wyndham Shawnee - MF varies by phase, but most are considerably higher than CWA
10. Wyndham Skyline - MF was $7.65/k in 2024 when CWA was $7.65/k
11. Lake Marion (South Carolina) - MF $5.34/K in 2017 when CWA was $5.60/k, Extrapolated MF: $8.92
12. Unknown Rhode Island Resort 1
13. Uknown Rhode Island Resort 2
14. Unknown California Resort 1
15. Unknown California Resort 2

 

[HitchHiker71]

That completely goes against the core values of timeshare systems, ie: "the points charts are locked in".

Agreed.

Them playing games and "bringing back resorts" under a different name or something and higher points chart goes against one of their MAIN selling points. IE: locking in vacation prices now, forever. That's one of the fears I have, and if they can do it at these resorts, nothing is stopping them from doing it elsewhere.

I really doubt this is the plan. I think they are being up front about rebalancing the resort portfolio and cycling out, for the most part, older and less popular resorts in less popular locations that are closer to the end of their useful life, and that are prone to high SAs and higher ongoing maintenance costs (which means higher MFs). Change is the only constant in this life.

Remember people, Wyndham is not a struggling company, they are making a lot of money year over year.

In so far as net profit margin, in 2024 TNL’s was only 10.63%. That’s really not that high in the big scheme of things. It’s not like they are Microsoft at 36% net profit margins with a revenue stream that dwarfs TNL for example.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Arimaas]

RE: closing locations with sales centers:

As of today's list:

1. Fairfield Glade - yes
2. Bentley Brook - no
3. Patriot’s Place - all of the Williamsburg resorts share the sales center at Governors Green
4. Fairfield Bay - I don't know, never been there
5. Lake Lure - no
6. Star Island - all of the Orlando resorts share the sales center at Bonnet Creek
7. Orlando International - all of the Orlando resorts share the sales center at Bonnet Creek
8. Edisto - yes
9. Wyndham Shawnee - I think they do
10. Wyndham Skyline - yes
11. Unknown Rhode Island Resort 1 - there is no sales presence at any of the Newport/Jamestown RI resorts
12. Uknown Rhode Island Resort - there is no sales presence at any of the Newport/Jamestown RI resorts
13. Unknown California Resort 1 - would depend which one
14. Unknown California Resort 2 - would depend which one

There is sales at Shawnee and Wyndham just started sales at Long Wharf (Newport) a few months ago.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Paying maintenance fees doesn't necessarily give you the right to the usage. They could just as easily refund those fees if the resort is closed in 2026.

Technically at least for UDI points for 2026 you are not entitled to use them if they are not yet paid for correct? Since we pay monthly, we aren’t paying for 2026 use year points yet. Sure Wyndham allows us to do so, but I’m certain the bylaws provide clear guidance on these types of issues when they come to bear.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Arimaas]

It's likely that you can swap into Wyndham Club Access at no cost

King Cotton is the least expensive there and much lower than CWA. I have no idea what they will do with presidential owners and the "perks" we get for being presidential. We'll lose all of that with CWA.

For me, I don’t see how swapping 154k Fairfield glade into CWA would make any sense. I would have an increase of $2/1000 in MFs. My guess is most in my situation will lose, but I’m also sure that a lot aren’t as educated as TUGers.

 

[dandjane1]

Well, it’s officially public for Fairfield Glade at least:

Club Wyndham closing timeshare operations in Fairfield Glade

Club Wyndham is shutting down its timeshare operations at the end of the year, according to a statement released Friday afternoon by the Fairfield Glade Community Club.

www.crossville-chronicle.com

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How appropriate, to be placed in the Chronicle page next to the obituaries!

 

[noreenkate]

POSSIBLE IMPACTED RESORTS LIST - SUBJECT TO CHANGE/CONFIRMATION:

Orlando International - was $7.16/k in 2024 when CWA was $7.65/k

Ohh I hope that one isn’t on the chopping block-

Was looking forward to staying there a lot next year…location to the new Epic Universe Park is really good.

 

[dandjane1]

Thanks. That worked

Fairfield Glade $6.34 per thousand points
CWA $8.13 per thousand points

Do those include the "Program Fees" per thousand points, or the bare MFs only?
Program Fees are around 58 to 60 cents per K.

 

[Arimaas]

Do those include the "Program Fees" per thousand points, or the bare MFs only?
Program Fees are around 58 to 60 cents per K.

The FG was my MFs. Did not include the program fees.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Do those include the "Program Fees" per thousand points, or the bare MFs only?
Program Fees are around 58 to 60 cents per K.

We don’t include PFs in the MFs since that rate varies dependent upon the ownership types (retail, resale, etc.)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Do those include the "Program Fees" per thousand points, or the bare MFs only?
Program Fees are around 58 to 60 cents per K.

Base maintenance fees. Program fee is .73 per k for resale, .75 per k for developer in 2025.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

location to the new Epic Universe Park is really good.

Yeah, same here.

 

[dandjane1]

How appropriate, to be placed in the Chronicle page next to the obituaries!

We were at BB two Christmas’s ago now. When there we were called on our room phone and offered an owner update via iPad remotely, but we turned it down. So at least back then, they were offering remote sales updates to owners, not sure how common that was or still is for resorts that have no sales center, which makes me wonder, of the resorts on our prospective list, how many have sales centers? I know BB does not. Maybe I will create a table format to track these different kinds of attributes so we can try to identify some underlying logic.

It also occurred to me yesterday, regarding your point about how cheap BB is, that many of the legacy resorts require much lower points values to book. Since Wyndham cannot change the points values, if they want at a macro level to discourage use of resorts with lower points values, the only real option is to remove these resorts from the system over time. Using a certain logic, taking this approach means owners then have to use their points at the newer resorts that require higher points values to book, and that means owners are more likely to buy more points to cover the same amount of vacationing right? So if own 1.4mm points today and can vacation for 45 nights total using a mix of legacy and non-legacy resorts, tomorrow I may need 1.6-1.7mm points to cover those same 45 nights. Pure speculation on my part of course. Thoughts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

IMHO, you might have just nailed it!
The theory is very fitting and so Wyndham-esque.

 

[Jester69]

Just returned from Waikiki, where I was told I had a ' suppression code ' on my account, that the concierge had no idea what it meant, but, that needed to be resolved, as it was blocking me from making any future reservations..turns out the suppression code was because I have a fixed week at Bently Brook that they wanted to resolve....by me purchasing CWA points..and them taking that fixed week off my hands..I told them that I attempted to do just that a few years ago, and it cost me around 30K...however, I paid it off a couple of months later, and that allowed me to keep the CWA points, however, because I paid it off early, they said I did not fulfill the obligation ( they didn't get to earn enough interest from me). I still own the BB fixed week (105k points) Nothing has been said to me about this since...until I arrived in Waikiki last week... and now BB is scheduled to do whatever they are doing... coincidence??

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

coincidence

Hopefully.

 

[Arimaas]

You know what's completely bonkers? You know you're closing the resort on Dec 31, 2025. Why allow me to make a reservation for January? Why not start to block out the system so you don't have a lot of disappointed people? You made the announcement yesterday, ths system should have been blocking this out at least by yesterday, if not before.

 

[Roger830]

That completely goes against the core values of timeshare systems, ie: "the points charts are locked in".

Them playing games and "bringing back resorts" under a different name or something and higher points chart goes against one of their MAIN selling points. IE: locking in vacation prices now, forever. That's one of the fears I have, and if they can do it at these resorts, nothing is stopping them from doing it elsewhere.

Remember people, Wyndham is not a struggling company, they are making a lot of money year over year.

I have seen contracts on ebay and the mf is about $1200 or slightly lower.

In 2018 Wyndham owned about 37% of each of those resorts, most likely more now. They are probably contributing to the high cost of cwa which Wyndham wants to reduce.

I would be ok with a higher points cost rather than see them go away.

 

[Sandi Bo]

This makes me so sad (and frustrated). We are presidential/founder level, and we own at King Cotton in Edisto (most of our 1.5 million points) with 300K points of this at Waikiki Beach Walk. I actually have a reservation in Edisto the week after Christmas, December 27 - January 3. So if the dump Edisto, then do I just get kicked out on December 31?

I'm SUPER frustrated that we are hearing about this in the ether and they are not being transparent with us about what's to come. So unethical (and, no, I'm not surprised)

Has anyone thought of converting future year points into Wyndham Rewards Points? I know the conversion rate isn't great, but that's one thing we could do with our future points. And, I've actually booked a month's worth of cottages in Scotland with Wyndham Rewards Points using Cottages.com. So there are some travel options that use those points besides just hotels.

Anyone own in King Cotton on here that happens to be in my boat? I'm so sad - I really like Edisto. My kids were raised going there and my daughter is getting married there in September.

Edisto is to you as Bentley Brook is to my family!

Edisto is also a nice option for visiting the Charleston area. We stayed there multiple times when my daughter was doing her residency at MUSC. I love the nickname EdiSLOW (and it helped me pronounce it correctly).

I have never used Wyndham points for anything but the timeshares. I didn't think it ever made sense. But I know nothing about converting to Wyndham rewards points. I'll have to look a little closer at that.