Wyndham is closing a handful of legacy resorts - dedicated chart/tracker located in the first post for this unfolding set of events

[CO skier]

Individual HOA's members can vote to remove themselves from Wyndham management, which would remove the inventory from Club Wyndham. That happened at one of the HOA's at Edisto, Villa Rica and I believe one of the ones at Pagosa.

That was not the case at Club Wyndham Pagosa Mountain Meadows. It was not a "vote to remove themselves from Wyndham management"; it was a vote to terminate the entire timeshare plan. (The HOA could have terminated the Wyndham management agreement and continued on as a timeshare under a new management agreement.) I think there are resorts in Club Wyndham that are not Wyndham managed.

I mean, it may be the case that Wyndham plans to put forward these proposals, and maybe they have the votes in the bag, but I don’t see how they do it without a vote.

Exactly. And that is how it will (eventually) play out at Kauai Beach Villas. Whether it is fixed weeks, floating weeks, or UDI, these properties are deeded, with voting rights.

It might seem that Wyndham is acting unilaterally, but that is because "they have the votes in the bag."

 

[northovr]

Depending on what resorts in Newport/Jamestown, some of those summer fixed week owners may very well be very upset if the resort is just sold out from under them and they get a pittance payout. Some very well may be happy for an opportunity to escape free and clear though.

I would like to hope this is not an opportunity to get rid of the fixed week owners at some of these resorts, then they "magically" reappear as a UDI property.

The problem is most of the inventory vote proxies are own by the developer some converted to CWA not sure how the ratio is but the developer has the majority of the votes

Daneil

 

[Floridaman76]

I know Patriots Place is closing
Daniel

I don't think that's true AT ALL. I'm here right now, Wyndham has thrown a LOT of money into renovations here (and Kingsgate) in recent years, and if they wanted to shutter the place, they would not have done that. I'm actually in a refurbished unit at Patriots Place as I type this. They did a GREAT job on the renovations. It was not done half ass.

This may have been the "third choice" in Williamsburg, and I would have said that too, but after the renovations, it's much improved. It will never have the amenities that Kingsgate or Governors Green has, but if you just want a nice place to stay and just need a pool, this is definitely a good choice. Least amount of kids and noise here, and that's a selling point for me

 

[CO skier]

I would like to hope this is not an opportunity to get rid of the fixed week owners at some of these resorts, then they "magically" reappear as a UDI property.

That has been going on, sort of, at Club Wyndham resorts through Club Wyndham Access for the past ten nine years with Certified Exit and Ovations before it. Pretty smart, too. It does not take any money to acquire large voting blocks.

 

[Jan M.]

I don't think that's true AT ALL. I'm here right now, Wyndham has thrown a LOT of money into renovations here (and Kingsgate) in recent years, and if they wanted to shutter the place, they would not have done that. I'm actually in a refurbished unit at Patriots Place as I type this. They did a GREAT job on the renovations. It was not done half ass.

This may have been the "third choice" in Williamsburg, and I would have said that too, but after the renovations, it's much improved. It will never have the amenities that Kingsgate or Governors Green has, but if you just want a nice place to stay and just need a pool, this is definitely a good choice. Least amount of kids and noise here, and that's a selling point for me

I thought one of the responses in the Facebook post said that major renovations currently being done at the Bentley Brook resort. Yet this resort is apparently being dropped by Wyndham from our system.

 

[northovr]

I don't think that's true AT ALL. I'm here right now, Wyndham has thrown a LOT of money into renovations here (and Kingsgate) in recent years, and if they wanted to shutter the place, they would not have done that. I'm actually in a refurbished unit at Patriots Place as I type this. They did a GREAT job on the renovations. It was not done half ass.

This may have been the "third choice" in Williamsburg, and I would have said that too, but after the renovations, it's much improved. It will never have the amenities that Kingsgate or Governors Green has, but if you just want a nice place to stay and just need a pool, this is definitely a good choice. Least amount of kids and noise here, and that's a selling point for me

It’s 100 percent true I’m pretty sure if you ask the front desk they will confirm it. It sucks because they just spent 20 million dollars to renovate the Saturday side but it so definitely true

Daniel

 

[HitchHiker71]

The problem is most of the inventory vote proxies are own by the developer some converted to CWA not sure how the ratio is but the developer has the majority of the votes

Daneil

That’s correct, Wyndham has been taking back inventory via CE, foreclosures, trades, inventory held within the trusts, etc., so they basically hold enough inventory to vote their preference.


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[HitchHiker71]

I thought one of the responses in the Facebook post said that major renovations currently being done at the Bentley Brook resort. Yet this resort is apparently being dropped by Wyndham from our system.

Correct. Don’t assume that ongoing renovations means the legacy resort will stay in the system.


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[HitchHiker71]

id also imagine if these resorts are in as poor a shape (financially)...there wont be an overwhelming number of owners who fight it tooth and nail...

depending on what if anything they are offered.

I can say that owners who want to stay whole will be given no-cost points options to do so, details will be provided to impacted owners.


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[HitchHiker71]

I know Patriots Place is closing
Daniel

Closing isn’t the best term. These resorts are probably being removed from the Club Wyndham system and sold to generate revenue. The buyer could potentially be another timeshare system for example. If so, we may still be able to use these properties via other timeshare exchanges like RCI. Then again a buyer could convert them into condos for individual sale for example. Only time will tell.


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[Fido Chuckwagon]

Wyndham has thrown a LOT of money

No idea whether it’s true or not that they’re closing, but is this really the right way of looking at it? Wyndham doesn’t spend any money on renovations, that’s the HOA and maintenance fees.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

So do we think this is only going to effect high maintenance fee resorts? Meaning resorts with maintenance fees above the CWA maintenance fee? It would seem to be illogical to me for them to get rid of low maintenance fee resorts that bring the average down, but now I’m getting nervous about the resorts that I own but have no intention of ever staying at (Bali Hai, Grand Desert, and Canterbury).

 

[Jan M.]

As apparently this "rumor" happens to be true, where does that leave the owners? And Wyndham too as they typically retain ownership of enough points to be the controlling owner.

Deeded owners, individuals and Wyndham, still own what they own at any resort that Wyndham drops from the system. They just lose the ability to exchange to go to other resorts.

We used to own at the Golden Strand Villas resort in Sunny Isles Beach, Florida. We took the buy out offer a developer made and actually made out quite well. About $3k more than we paid for our week a few years before that. Plus the developer gave us 3 years use of the RCI points our week got and paid our maintenance fees for those 3 years. Deals like this are the rare exception. We loved that resort and were sorry to see it go but also smart enough to take the deal while it was being offered. Not all owners did and wasted time and money trying to block the sale. One of the people trying to block the sale was an individual who'd been buying up weeks there. Had he been able to get enough weeks to be the controlling owner he could have made a fantastic deal with one of the several developers interested in the property. The board took steps to prevent him from getting any more weeks.

So based on what I learned from our experience here's what I'm speculating. Wyndham likely looked after Wyndham first and foremost. Not trying to paint them in a bad light because this s.o.p. for businesses. They could have made a deal with some developer to buy what they owned, at least at Bentley Brook. That developer could have also been quietly buying up contracts being sold on places like TUG, eBay, Redweek, etc.

We know that renovations and unit refurbishments take some time to plan. Interesting that Wyndham proceded with them, of course with the HOA paying. Wyndham makes money in various ways on all aspects of renovations and unit updates. All the while knowing what their intentions were regarding the future of the resort. A developer at Bentley Brook could intend to sell the units as private condos. I'd guess there's a very good market for that. That would make it very convenient that they're newly updated out of the resort's funds from the owners maintenance fees.

Like a great deal of what Wyndham does, there's no transparency. Nor is Wyndham required to be transparent. There is also no concern for their reputation as being a safe company for owners to spend the big bucks on buying from.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Alright, so we believe it’s about 20 around the country. So far we have information to believe that it is:

1. Bentley Brook;
2. Patriot’s Place;
3. Unknown Rhode Island Resort;
4. Unknown Rhode Island Resort;
5. Unknown California Resort;
6. Unknown California Resort;

Feel free to quote/edit this and continue adding to it as we get more information in.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

I can confirm, after speaking with a Wyndham corporate resource, there is some truth to this, but it's complex in nature. Details will be forthcoming in an owner communication probably before end of week or early next week best estimate. At a very high level, the resorts in question are older resorts with high MFs, low owner occupancy rates (or outright low occupancy rates), with higher than average MF rate increases and a very high likelihood for high special assessments in the near term due to resort ages and conditions. Net net, this will be good for the overall ownership base to help keep overall MF rate increases down - especially for the trust based ownerships like CWA.

We'll be sure to post this forthcoming communication and/or a link to it into this thread as soon as it is available, given we know not everyone receives these types of email communications these days.

Just want to post that I really appreciate the work that you and @TUGBrian are doing to get us this information. This is stressful. I recently convinced a friend of mine to purchase Grand Desert for the ability to book everywhere else, she just took her first trip using points and loved it, and I’d feel terrible if Grand Desert was on the chopping block (although it’s not a high mf resort so I guess probably not?)

 

[paxsarah]

The resort may (or may not) continue based on how the governing documents for that specific resort are structured. But, at least for converted-week resorts, it is fairly easy for Wyndham to remove a resort from Club Wyndham. The original conversion contract (executed in 2006) says thusly:

View attachment 112949

I don't know where (or even whether) "unsuitable for continued use in the Plan" is defined, but I am guessing Wyndham is allowed to use their reasonable (if not unfettered) discretion in making such a decision. I am wiling to bet Big Bucks (tm) that any future conversion contract has similar language. I have another much more recent one laying around; I will take a look when I get a chance.

Furthermore, if for some reason a solid plurality of weeks are now in the CWA Trust, Wyndham can vote them however they like, and will probably prevail.

“Unsuitable” is doing a lot of work there, if that’s the provision under which Wyndham is doing this. If it’s under a vote where Wyndham has controlling interest (presumably under (a) in that excerpt) it still makes more sense to me.

 

[CO skier]

I can say that owners who want to stay whole will be given no-cost points options to do so, details will be provided to impacted owners.

I believe the Mountain Meadows owners were given this option, if they wanted to continue with their Club Wyndham ownership.

 

[paxsarah]

Alright, so we believe it’s about 20 around the country. So far we have information to believe that it is:

1. Bentley Brook;
2. Patriot’s Place;
3. Unknown Rhode Island Resort;
4. Unknown Rhode Island Resort;
5. Unknown California Resort;
6. Unknown California Resort;

Feel free to quote/edit this and continue adding to it as we get more information in.

Also per the 2 Facebook posts I’ve seen (so also take as rumor): 2 associations (not all) at Edisto, some number of associations at Fairfield Glade.

 

[Jan M.]

Alright, so we believe it’s about 20 around the country. So far we have information to believe that it is:

1. Bentley Brook;
2. Patriot’s Place;
3. Unknown Rhode Island Resort;
4. Unknown Rhode Island Resort;
5. Unknown California Resort;
6. Unknown California Resort;

Feel free to quote/edit this and continue adding to it as we get more information in.

According to one of the newer comments on the Facebook post there are 10 resorts being dropped.

Add to the list
Fairfield Bay
Fairfield Glade
Lake Lure
Star Island

It's not clear for the resorts with multiple associations if Wyndham is dropping all of them or just some.

 

[CO skier]

Closing isn’t the best term. These resorts are probably being removed from the Club Wyndham system and sold to generate revenue. The buyer could potentially be another timeshare system for example. If so, we may still be able to use these properties via other timeshare exchanges like RCI. Then again a buyer could convert them into condos for individual sale for example. Only time will tell.

Maybe past will turn out to be prologue ... maybe. Note that another vote of the interval owners was required.

Edited to add this excerpt from a letter dated November 16, 2024 -- a couple weeks before the December 4, 2024 Special Meeting and vote. I am not one for conspiracy theories, but the choice of "When will the termination take place?" instead of "When would the termination take place?" may have hidden, Freudian slip significance.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

I believe the Mountain Meadows owners were given this option, if they wanted to continue with their Club Wyndham ownership.

What did this look like? A swap for CWA points or something?

 

[CO skier]

Just want to post that I really appreciate the work that you and @TUGBrian are doing to get us this information. This is stressful. I recently convinced a friend of mine to purchase Grand Desert for the ability to book everywhere else, she just took her first trip using points and loved it, and I’d feel terrible if Grand Desert was on the chopping block (although it’s not a high mf resort so I guess probably not?)

I guess it must be human nature to panic in the face of the unknown. Resorts that are relatively lower cost to operate with a relatively high occupancy year round are extremely unlikely to be affected. Club Wyndham is not folding. Resorts like Wyndham Grand Desert would be one of the last to go.

Google Search

 

[paxsarah]

I can say that owners who want to stay whole will be given no-cost points options to do so, details will be provided to impacted owners.

That’s interesting, because in other situations where an HOA has left or been removed (e.g. Villa Rica, Club Destin) owners were not made whole in terms of points/VIP retention.

 

[CO skier]

What did this look like? A swap for CWA points or something?

Yes, something like that. With the same number of CWA points, an owner could book into Club Wyndham Pagosa at 13 months with a lower maintenance fee. I do not know what points, specifically, were involved, but it makes sense.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Updated List Based on Rumors, Maintenance Fees based on last reported in TUG, with extremely rough approximation of increases based on average increase for CWA:

1. Bentley Brook (Massachusetts) MF: $7.62 based on TUG Marketplace listing;
2. Patriot’s Place (Virginia) MF: Last Known to be $7.65/k in 2018 when CWA was $5.76. Extrapolated Maintenance Fee based on average CWA increases: $10.79 ;
3. Unknown Rhode Island Resort;
4. Unknown Rhode Island Resort;
5. Unknown California Resort;
6. Unknown California Resort;
7. Fairfield Bay (Arkansas) 2024 MF: $6.92
8. Fairfield Glade (Tennessee) MF: $6.55 in 2017 when CWA was $5.60, Extrapolated Maintence Fee: $9.71
9. Lake Lure (North Carolina)): MF: Unknown;
10. Star Island (Florida) MF: $6.97 in 2020 when CWA was $6.28. Extrapolated Maintenance Fee: $9.02
11. Edisto (South Carolina) MF: varies wildly by phase, but most expensive phase $8.66 in 2017 when CWA was $5.60, Extrapolaged Maintenance Fee: $12.81


Kind of surprised about Fairfield Bay. The 2024 maintenance fees were below the CWA maintenance fees.

Edited to include Bentley Brook based on TUG Marketplace Listing