Wyndham eliminating mega-renters

[tschwa2]

You would think if the current owner pre paid all of the current years MF's they could transfer the contract with 0 points or if the transfer is initiated in the last 3-4 months of the use year since the new owner would not have time to use any points once transferred. This would be a common sense approach but Developers aren't always guilty of having common sense.

 

[Jan M.]

My account is not really locked. Why do you think that my account is locked? Certified exit apparently doesn't work for every Wyndham contract. They don't really want what I have. I am also not going to give back my platinum account. I know they want it, but they cannot have it.

I don't think your account is locked!

Anyone who goes through Certified Exit has their account locked until it's finished. They cannot have any upcoming reservations nor can they make any new reservations.

If an owner has deposited points in RCI and already has something booked those reservations won't be cancelled when they're going through the Certified Exit process. This probably isn't relevant to you because it sounds like you may need all your points to be able to sell or give away what you have. I'm including it because it might be helpful to OP considering using Certified Exit.

 

[rickandcindy23]

You would think if the current owner pre paid all of the current years MF's they could transfer the contract with 0 points or if the transfer is initiated in the last 3-4 months of the use year since the new owner would not have time to use any points once transferred. This would be a common sense approach but Developers aren't always guilty of having common sense.

Very true. Wyndham is the bottom of the barrel for common sense, apparently. I am trying to figure out how to give away my Wyndham resale contracts (that were not free in 2007), so I need to figure out how to get out gracefully. I guess I won't start the transfer process until 1/1. I will do it all in my own good time. Seems that even giving away to friends can hit these roadblocks of requiring MF's up to date and contract fully loaded at closing. I may have to wait a long time to transfer. I just don't know where I stand with points. After the audit, it could be expensive to give these away, if I don't wait.

 

[tschwa2]

I don't think your account is locked!

Anyone who goes through Certified Exit has their account locked until it's finished. They cannot have any upcoming reservations nor can they make any new reservations.

If an owner has deposited points in RCI and already has something booked those reservations won't be cancelled when they're going through the Certified Exit process. This probably isn't relevant to you because it sounds like you may need all your points to be able to sell or give away what you have. I'm including it because it might be helpful to OP considering using Certified Exit.

isn't that only if you are giving all of you points back and/or are using limited editions? If you give back one contract and keep at least one, do they really cut off all access to your wyndham account and rci account.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I don't think your account is locked!

Anyone who goes through Certified Exit has their account locked until it's finished. They cannot have any upcoming reservations nor can they make any new reservations.

If an owner has deposited points in RCI and already has something booked those reservations won't be cancelled when they're going through the Certified Exit process. This probably isn't relevant to you because it sounds like you may need all your points to be able to sell or give away what you have. I'm including it because it might be helpful to OP considering using Certified Exit.

I am not going to give back my Bali Hai, and that is all I own that they might even want. I have Smoky Mountains, Kingsgate and Fairfield Bay and a few others. Wyndham won't want those back.

I have a friend who is considering taking some of my contracts. I always thought my Fairfield Bay were the cheapest MF's but I did the math yesterday on some others, and Kingsgate might be a better choice for her. But honestly, I am going to tell her to go a different way than Wyndham. I don't want her to have to deal with all of these restrictions on Wyndham that would keep her from using her ownership, and besides that, if she has friends and family going, I have a feeling she will be stopped from doing that, if not now, maybe later.

Other systems are better for her. I always thought SBP or SDO would be much better for her family, even with the II fees and the upgrades to the 2 bedrooms, she would be much better off using II.

 

[Jan M.]

I am thinking about this change in policy on Wyndham's part. If I don't have points for this year and have the title turned over to start on 2022, I don't see how they can legally keep me from doing that, as long as I have 2022 points for the new person taking over my account. So that makes zero sense to me.

Wyndham is going to make this tough on me. Giving them away is one thing, but abiding by their stinkin' rules is another.

For anything that has a January 1 use year if you wait until say later October to sell/give away them they shouldn't transfer until after the first of the year. So as long as you have enough points for 2022 to cover whatever your selling/giving away you should be good. But that puts you on the hook for the maintenance fees for the rest of 2021 and probably for the first month or two of 2022.

For the people weighing the pros and cons for selling/giving away things vs doing Certified Exit it's not easy to decide what to do. If you try to do a mix of both there's even more things to take into consideration.

We have a couple of things I said I'd get rid of last year. However we were gone so much from mid June through mid December we weren't home enough for me to do it. We've continued to travel most of this year too. Plus we used a lot of those points so now I'm trying to figure out what I want to do because of the upcoming changes. I'm so kicking myself for for procrastinating.

 

[Jan M.]

isn't that only if you are giving all of you points back and/or are using limited editions? If you give back one contract and keep at least one, do they really cut off all access to your wyndham account and rci account.

No it's if you're using Certified Exit period. If you've deposited points in RCI and made reservations those stays are still good. If I was contemplating using CE and had enough points to work with I'd deposit them in RCI and get stays booked if I didn't want to be stuck staying home for potentially 5-6 months.

DH is dying laughing at the idea of me being forced to say home that long. It's been at least 15 years since I've gone that long between stays. I didn't go back to work when we moved to Florida ten years ago but even when I was working we took four big vacations a year.

 

[Cyrus24]

I'm so kicking myself for for procrastinating.

Not worth that. Who knew that Wyndham would clamp down on and/or change the rules.

 

[Jan M.]

Not worth that. Who knew that Wyndham would clamp down on and/or change the rules.

I've been sure this was coming. I just thought we had another year or so before it happened.

 

[troy12n]

Not worth that. Who knew that Wyndham would clamp down on and/or change the rules.

Honestly, if you didn't know this was coming, you were just blind to it or in denial. Did it come sooner than people may have thought? Maybe. But to others, this was long overdue. It will have a positive effect on owners who actually use their points to vacation, and not supplement their income.

 

[Eric B]

Honestly, if you didn't know this was coming, you were just blind to it or in denial. Did it come sooner than people may have thought? Maybe. But to others, this was long overdue. It will have a positive effect on owners who actually use their points to vacation, and not supplement their income.

Be careful about making absolute statements regarding what the effects will be. We've already seen one posting from a hybrid VIP owner indicating that they would likely pull a desirable converted resale week at a desirable resort out of Club Wyndham Plus due to the removal of the VIP benefits. If more such owners figure that out, there will be fewer of the desirable weeks and more mud weeks available for the owners - if that's the positive effect that everyone really wants then so be it, but I'm not entirely convinced that losing the possibility of access to those weeks is a positive effect.

 

[paxsarah]

No it's if you're using Certified Exit period.

This wasn’t the case when I used Ovation in 2019, but maybe they’ve changed it since then. The language on the documentation they provided me was geared to the situation in which all contracts were given back and all reservations would be canceled - it was pretty dire. However, the conversation I had with the Ovation specialist when I started the process and my experience throughout was that as long as I had enough free points remaining in my account to cover the contracts that were leaving, my reservations were safe. I had preexisting reservations and even made one as the process ensued - nothing was locked. In fact, I was on a trip at the third of four Wyndham properties when my first Ovated contract left my account.

So again, YMMV. This was two years ago, and things could have changed. But all I can say is the documentation made it sound like nothing could be done during the process, while in reality I just had to cover the points.

 

[am1]

You really think being able to harvest points from a future use year, which you have not paid MF on, for your own (business) purposes and then dump them to someone else should be a permissible thing?

I agree as it destabilizes the owners. A new owner with no points for a few years is more likely to default or the transfer was set up to default from the beginning. Not scam or a fraud but I was surprised people would take that "bargain" offer.

When I broke in to the business. I would get the previous owner to transfer the points to people who would pay be $6.50 or so a thousand. For as many of the years that was possible. That more then covered the purchase cost. Then with the new money made more purchases. That is now I funded my company and at the time thought was my end game in all this. Back then fees with $3 something a 1000. Had a free gold membership (no retail) for my account for a cup of coffee and then that was taken away and I went out and made a purchase that got me to Platinum with bonus points and Pics. Then I was the one that was paying for points transfers as I could not keep up fast enough in purchasing timeshares. Then Wyndham started giving me free points in a few ways and while what Ron was doing was impressive I had no need for the headache. At times I must have had hundreds of millions of points in my accounts where ownership only showed a few million deeded points and no Platinum purchased points although I was Platinum. But still went after every discount and upgrade I could.

 

[Jan M.]

This wasn’t the case when I used Ovation in 2019, but maybe they’ve changed it since then. The language on the documentation they provided me was geared to the situation in which all contracts were given back and all reservations would be canceled - it was pretty dire. However, the conversation I had with the Ovation specialist when I started the process and my experience throughout was that as long as I had enough free points remaining in my account to cover the contracts that were leaving, my reservations were safe. I had preexisting reservations and even made one as the process ensued - nothing was locked. In fact, I was on a trip at the third of four Wyndham properties when my first Ovated contract left my account.

So again, YMMV. This was two years ago, and things could have changed. But all I can say is the documentation made it sound like nothing could be done during the process, while in reality I just had to cover the points.

Things have definitely changed with Certified Exit. once they begin the process if you haven't cancelled any upcoming reservations yourself CE will cancel them for you and you will lose the points.

I kind of but not entirely misspoke when I said previously that your account would be locked. If you make any new reservations during the process it may result in your CE process being cancelled. It seems that you do have access to your account, you just can't book anything.

 

[paxsarah]

once they begin the process if you haven't cancelled any upcoming reservations yourself CE will cancel them for you and you will lose the points.

Even if they do cancel the reservations, why would you lose the points (assuming more than 15 days out)?

 

[Jan M.]

Even if they do cancel the reservations, why would you lose the points (assuming more than 15 days out)?

The bigger question would be why would anyone be foolish enough not to cancel any upcoming reservations and lose their points when it's spelled out in the terms and conditions you agree to when you commit to using Certified Exit. Yes, it is in the terms and conditions.

Same thing with why would anyone take a chance of having the process cancelled if they made new reservations while the process was in progress.

 

[paxsarah]

Yes, it is in the terms and conditions.

Yes, it was in my terms and conditions too. I would assume they carried the same language over from Ovation. No, they didn’t actually do it in my case. That’s why I was asking if they really do it, or if it’s the same as when I went through. It sounds like you have firsthand experience of this, so they must have started following through on the written terms and conditions in a way that they didn’t when I did it in 2019.

And the reason anyone would be foolish enough to go forward with reservations still booked is if their specialist told them by email it would be okay as long as they had the points in their account to cover the contracts that were leaving. It’s me; I’m anyone. And it worked out fine. I’m not saying it will work out fine for anyone today, I’m saying that what they said initially in writing was different than what I was told in a follow up email by my specialist (that I just needed to have enough points free), and my experience reflected his assurances.

 

[dgalati]

Ovation letter I recieved in 2019 when I was going to give back deeds. Fortunately I did not own for one year and Wyndham ended up buying all 4 deeds third party from their preferred resale broker. Wynd3 actually accepted the first two but I notified them I did not own for 1 year. I still believe they would of taken back if I didn't disclose that I only owned for 3 months.




This email is to recap that you are voluntarily agreeing to participate in the Ovation by Wyndham program and understand and agree to the following requirements as we discussed today.

Maintenance Fee: Must be and stay current until process is complete. Any paid fees are not refundable.

Documentation to return inventory: You understand that you will receive by email/mail documentation to return your inventory within 8-10 weeks. These documents must be signed, notarized, and returned within the number of days indicated on the documentation. Please keep in mind the sooner the documentation is returned the earlier the process may be completed. Once the document is received, it may take within 6-8 weeks for documents to be approved and the cancellation to be completed.

Third Party Company Assistance: You understand that retaining counsel or third party company to assist with the Ovation program may disqualify your application.

Title Issues: Discrepancies with owner recorded transfer deeds, issues with chain of title, missing documentation needed to record with deed to return inventory, proof of name changes, estate matters etc. and other changes that were not received by Wyndham Title department, may delay the process until proper documentation is received.

Ownership: You must own contract for at least 12 months

Third Party Financial Institution: Any portion of loan paid using a credit card or any other financial institution (PayPal, bank loan, mortgage equity or other) is of sole responsibility of owner accepting an Ovation option.

Reservations: All reservations will be canceled and points forfeited. You will be able to keep any secured reservation paid with Resort Condominium International (RCI).

New Travel reservations during Ovation process: In the event that you book a reservation during this process your request to return your inventory may be cancelled. In case you use your points/credits with Wyndham Destinations or one of its business partners (Travel, RCI, and others) during the process, your cancelation may be interrupted and you will have to wait until the next use year to participate in the Ovation program, once all points are available.

Point’s/Credit usage: Future year’s points/credits must be unused or reservation must be canceled or point rental option is also available.

Multiple contracts: One acknowledgement per contract is required and must be returned.

Ovation by Wyndham offer: Program and inventory acceptance may change without notice. Any changes in the program, will not impact a case that is in process.

 

[paxsarah]

My terms were very similar but not exactly the same as what dgalati posted. The part about reservations is verbatim.

 

[dgalati]

[/QUOTE]

My terms were very similar but not exactly the same as what dgalati posted. The part about reservations is verbatim.

Its a moving target and the best policy is to call in and see if anything has changed. Wyndham has no set rules made for our eyes. This is so they can change as demand and economic situations change.

 

[Cyrus24]

I agree to disagree on it being a loophole and do not believe they made the change solely because of my usage. I personally think it was a glitch in the new system when it was rolled out in 2016.

Is there a difference between a loophole and a glitch? Asking for a friend.

 

[Jan M.]

I know several people who are using Certified Exit. They were kind enough to share information with me to help me come to a decision about what I want to do.

Some things in the terms and conditions under Ovations are the same for Certified Exit but not all.

One thing I noticed right away are the timeframes. What was then 8-10 weeks and 6-8 weeks for the two steps of the process under Ovations is currently 9-12 weeks and 8-10 weeks with Certified Exit. I'd guess that's due to the increased work load this change is bringing.

 

[CO skier]

This person may also be a mega renter getting out of the business. Finish up renting and sell in the process. This is a current list of rentals and contracts for sale:

Items for sale by time-4-vacation | eBay

One thing I noticed right away are the timeframes. What was then 8-10 weeks and 6-8 weeks for the two steps of the process under Ovations is currently 9-12 weeks and 8-10 weeks with Certified Exit. I'd guess that's due to the increased work load this change is bringing.

If any of this is the result of megarenters proactively dropping their resale contracts, even before the changes in mid-August, it is a clear indication these changes have some teeth.

 

[chapjim]

You really think being able to harvest points from a future use year, which you have not paid MF on, for your own (business) purposes and then dump them to someone else should be a permissible thing?

It's all about a willing buyer and a willing seller. You are neither. You are a bystander with no standing to criticize what others do or did.

You are also really annoying.

 

[CO skier]

Man, you’re totally right he completely concealed the nature of these stripped contracts from the unsuspecting Tug public just to get one over on people, like a true con artist.

oh, wait…

Yeah, forget that. Seems like he was fully forthright about the limitations. I can see how one could quibble about whether they’re truly “bargain deals,” but I don’t see how it can in any way be read as a con. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t make it a con.

There was universal agreement in the posts back in 2016 that there was nothing wrong with posting the stripped contracts in the TUG Marketplace where anything goes and anyone can ask anything for a crappy timeshare, even one stripped of some years of future usage. I believe this is still true.

The "con" was trying to pass-off the stripped contracts as a "Smoking deal" which is the criterion for a TUG Bargain Deal. To avoid any TUG member getting conned by a timeshare stripped of any future years of usage (regardless of "disclosures"), the Bargain Basement rules were updated in 2016 to prohibit ads with future years stripped of usage without the MF having been paid.