Worst timeshare resort you've stayed in?

[Carolinian]

I have never had what I would consider a bad experience with a timeshare resort. A few were just so-so, but not what I would consider bad. TUG reviews have helped steer me away from some that might well have been bad experiences, which were offered by RCI VG's.

 

[PA-]

....You're right, this is not a resort with amenities like some, but we have spent about $75,000 per unit in recent years, updating our unit interiors. It was a very impressive place in its day and will become impressive once again, at the cost of those of us who own there.


That is disgusting. $75K per unit for a facility worth about that? Of which, the contractor pocketed about $22K, I'm guessing? That is terrible, you should have disbanded the timeshare. It's worth more as a wholly owned than it is as a timeshare. I have a similar situation with Sunburst Condominiums in Steamboat, where the current HOA board is trying to put pearl earrings on a pig, when it's worth more if we sell it.
.....
What can an owner do but pay up when things need fixed and updating?

The owners can elect to disband the timeshares, sell it and split the money. There have been several special assessments there in the last 5 years. If the owners had sold then, they would have saved all that assessment money and maintenance fees, and could have paid for a much nicer timeshare.

....
The units are supposed to feel like you are in the mountains while inside as well as outside, didn't you get that, PA?

I don't know. I'm not saying you need to feel like you're in the park plaza, but Twin Rivers, to me, doesn't even feel like the holiday inn. It reminds me of my first apartment in college, in 1975. Granite counters don't change that much.

As for the other resorts managed by Allegiant, I think most of them are similar; owners are trying to maintain their various trading powers with II and RCI by doing what is required to accomplish this. At least that is what Jon is telling them in every newsletter and HOA meeting.

ALL the other allegiant properties are in the same situation. They were set up by bad developers in the first place, so you can't give Jon all the credit. Just most of it.

Good luck getting on the board!

 

[Tony2]

I'd have to say the worse we stayed at was Kohl's Ranch in Payson, and it wasn't all that bad. We enjoyed the area but the cabin was very rustic, the bedrooms were small and it needed a few repairs. But the jacuzzi on the deck made up for some of that. I guess I've been lucky over the years that we haven't had any horrible timeshare experiences.

 

[wise one]

Hollywood Beach Tower, Hollywood, Florida, where we visited in August 2002 was our worst.

The unit smelled, the hall had trash, the swimming pool closed for repair in August, the furniture, especially the mattress, should have been replaced at least five years before we stayed there, parking was in city garage across the street, the view from the unit was of parking garage. Resort was ocean front, but because of work at resort, had to walk around the resort one and and half blocks to the beach. Resort had a restrauant, but was only serving breakfst until 10 am becaue of construction.

 

[rickandcindy23]

PA, you and I are in complete agreement.

I know that the two bedroom units would only sell for about $139K, the three bedrooms $179K, if we sold them tomorrow as individual condos. Those are the prices that several whole-owned units are listed for today.

Getting all of the owners to agree to sell? That would be impossible. Many of the older folk who bought them in the first place (we're 50, so we aren't older folk ) will never give up their "home away from home." I would be the first on the bandwagon to sell, absolutely.

Whether you have followed some early threads I posted about Twin Rivers, I will reiterate that we have 31 whole-owned units and 29 timeshare units. The whole owners got their TREX decks paid for, almost entirely, by the timeshare owners. We were billed $612 per week for those decks, which included updates to the stairwells that are also TREX and updates to the clubhouse. I am fairly certain the whole owners only paid $1,500. (Hatrack could not believe it. Where is he anyway?) The whole owners are going to reap benefits from our recent assessments as well, but Jon will not admit to it because he knows that many of us are going to be very angry, should that happen.

 

[PA-]

.....Whether you have followed some early threads I posted about Twin Rivers, I will reiterate that we have 31 whole-owned units and 29 timeshare units. The whole owners got their TREX decks paid for, almost entirely, by the timeshare owners. We were billed $612 per week for those decks, which included updates to the stairwells that are also TREX and updates to the clubhouse. I am fairly certain the whole owners only paid $1,500. (Hatrack could not believe it. Where is he anyway?) The whole owners are going to reap benefits from our recent assessments as well, but Jon will not admit to it because he knows that many of us are going to be very angry, should that happen.

Unfortunately, this discussion (to upgrade a bad timeshare or just sell them as wholly owned) should have taken place before ANY assessments were done. You could have saved a ton of money, and had a little payoff to the owners.

But it isn't too late; I believe it's still a wise decision to sell the timeshare as wholly owned. If you owned all 52 weeks in one unit, and sold them off as timeshare weeks, they would be worth FAR less, in my opinion, than what you say they're selling for as wholly owned units.

You don't need to be on the board to have this discussion. You need to contact the board members and request them to hold off on the assessment until they've had the discussion. If they refuse, you can request the list of owners and try to contact them. If they won't give it to you, your choices are limited, contact me and I'll give you more info (PS, it doesn't involve lawsuits)

You don't need 100% of the owners. In CO, a majority of either 67% or 75% (I can't remember which, but I can find out if you're interested) will do the job, unless the timeshare documents state otherwise.

I'm having the same exact debate with the Sunburst Condominiums board.

You're biggest problem isn't going to be getting agreement from the owners. Your biggest problems are likely to be

1) Convincing the board to even allow the discussion to take place. Sounds like the manager is running the show.

2) Deciding how to split up the money. If the docs don't state otherwise, there's a probability that you'll have to give the blue week owners the same money as the owner of week 52. Your board will need to consult an attorney, or I may be able to let you know what the attornies say about that same situation at Sunburst.

Hatrack has been commuting between AK and CO lately, plus I know he visited his college kid in MD this weekend for 4 days. He's back now, so will probably be along.

 

[timeos2]

You don't need to be on the board to have this discussion. You need to contact the board members and request them to hold off on the assessment until they've had the discussion. If they refuse, you can request the list of owners and try to contact them. If they won't give it to you, your choices are limited, contact me and I'll give you more info (PS, it doesn't involve lawsuits)

At least in Florida an owner cannot get the owners list. Any mailing to owners mustt be done throught the manangement company.

You don't need 100% of the owners. In CO, a majority of either 67% or 75% (I can't remember which, but I can find out if you're interested) will do the job, unless the timeshare documents state otherwise.

The documents would spell out what percentage is required. If silent state law would set the percentage. But remember they also have whole ownership involved (makes it a real mess) so that group also has to agree.

It is hard enough to get all 52 owners of each week to agree (or at least the 50-75% you'd need). Add in whole ownership that may actually be benefitting from the current arrangement and this isn't going to happen. She is better off trying to gain a seat on the Board and work from within.

 

[PA-]

At least in Florida an owner cannot get the owners list. Any mailing to owners mustt be done throught the manangement company.



The documents would spell out what percentage is required. If silent state law would set the percentage. But remember they also have whole ownership involved (makes it a real mess) so that group also has to agree.

It is hard enough to get all 52 owners of each week to agree (or at least the 50-75% you'd need). Add in whole ownership that may actually be benefitting from the current arrangement and this isn't going to happen. She is better off trying to gain a seat on the Board and work from within.

Colorado doesn't have a ban against giving the owners an owner's list.

Also, I don't believe the master association (which includes both timeshare owners and wholly owned units) have to agree. I could be wrong on that. However, depending on how many votes the wholly owned units get, it may still be relatively easy to get 75% or 67% or whatever. I can't imagine that the people who live there want a timeshare. That wouldn't be the best neighbors to have.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Timeos, the whole owners benefit from our timeshare units

They got decks worth about $15K for ten percent of that cost because Jon DeVos told the timeshare owners that it benefits US for all units to look the same and that the whole owners didn't care. Now Jon's new campaign to get us to pay for whole-owned unit fix-ups is that the "units' interior shells are deteriorating due to water damage." Rick and I assume that we are going to pay for their bathroom water issues, which would include retiling their tub enclosures. How are they going to feel about all this work? They will be thrilled because Jon DeVos looks after them.

To top it all off, at least one of the employees at Allegiant is a whole owner at Twin Rivers. We found that out from the employee herself when we stopped in last month to check the progress of the updates. How is that for Allegiant's allegiance to its timeshare owners? Who knows how many others that work at Allegiant are reaping the benefits of these timeshare owners' extravagant assessments? It feels illegal to me, but the law would be so hidden within other laws/ statutes that it would be impossible for me as an ordinary person to find out. The HOA needs to hire a lawyer.

I know for a fact that Jon's claim that "property values are expected to double" statement is illegal. He should take that off of the website. He has the prices for HOA-owned weeks very high, then he holds "silent auctions" to sell them off, but no one ever knows what we get from them. He is trying to keep that illusion that Twin Rivers is more valuable than it is. I think the weeks at our resort for RED winter are worth about $2,000 and RED summer are worth $1K, but he has them priced much higher. It is dishonest to not tell people what resales are really going for. Most of the older people think what Jon has to say is gold. It is very difficult to sit at a meeting and listen to Jon talk about how real estate in the county, especially near Fraser is going for $200 sq ft. If that were true, the 1400 sq ft. Twin Rivers whole-owned units would be selling for $280,000!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JudyS]

The worst timeshare I actually spent the night in is Champion's Run in Riudoso, NM. Bathrooms and Kitchen were terribly grungy, there's a few timeshares mixed in with wholly owned condos in a low-rent complex, no hot tub or pool. Large units though. It wasn't as scary as some of the ones below, but almost.....

Philip, when did you stay at Champion's Run? I own there, and my impression is that they have been fixing the place up, although I don't know first hand as I have never been there.

Also, ORE claims that Champion's Run has a hot tub & pool; there is a picture of the pool on the ORE site. Maybe these were added since you stayed there?

 

[Carolinian]

The problem of wholeowners being the tail that wags the dog is all too common in mixed use resorts. At Dune South on the OBX, the management company is inept at many things but they know how to play up to the whole owners to keep their placemen in control of the HOA. They really strain the interpretation of the by-laws to give whole owners 52 votes each at HOA meeting even though their m/f is less than 4 times that of a timeshare owner.
All whole owner proxies come in and only about half of timesharers. The net result is that even though they own a minority of units, whole owners are often a majority of votes at the annual meeting.

Also, a takeover artist is trying to play to the wholeowners in the ongoing battle for control of Bodie Island Beach Club.

A better solution is that at The Windjammer, where timesharers and wholeowners have seperate associations, and most joint issues are under the control of the timeshare association.

I note that one Tugger is pushing a sell out and close down line. This is not what I would expect from someone who is supportive of timesharing. That should be an absolute last resort when there are no other options. Often, the best option is changing management and changing HOA control.

To get an owners list, use the corporate statutes. Most HOA's are organized as non-profit corporations, and there is a right in corporate law to a members list during a time period prior to the annual meeting. The law limits what you can do with that list, but it can generally be used for purposes of seeking to elect board members or push policy initiatives within the organization.

In North Carolina, resorts organized under the Unit Ownership Act take 100% approval to wind up, by statute, under normal circumstances. If the resort is more than 2/3 destroyed, then 75% can vote to wind up rather than rebuild.
There are also set intervals where less than 100% can vote to wind up, for declarations of covenents often make that impractial, such as requiring it to be done by signed instrument rather than a simple vote, requiring substantial advance notice, etc.

 

[PA-]

.....
I note that one Tugger is pushing a sell out and close down line. This is not what I would expect from someone who is supportive of timesharing. That should be an absolute last resort when there are no other options. Often, the best option is changing management and changing HOA control.

To get an owners list, use the corporate statutes. Most HOA's are organized as non-profit corporations, and there is a right in corporate law to a members list during a time period prior to the annual meeting. The law limits what you can do with that list, but it can generally be used for purposes of seeking to elect board members or push policy initiatives within the organization.

I assume when you say "one tugger..", you're talking about me. In the case of Sunburst Condominiums, shutting down the timeshare is not the last resort, we can pay the 1.7million to refurbish the 17 units (we just paid approx. .9 million 3 years ago for ext. refurb). However, don't assume, just because it isn't the "last option", that it isn't the best option. If you own all 52 weeks of timeshare in 1 unit, you would be able to sell the weeks on the open market for around $80 - $90 thousand total. However, last time I was in Steamboat, there was a wholly owned listed at $275K, and one had just sold for $269K. So while there is no requirement to shut er down, doesn't that sound like the best use of the real estate?

If the owners are given the option of either paying another $1000 in special assessment plus annual dues, and continuing to use this timeshare as a timeshare, or NOT paying the money and actually putting a little money in their pocket, I think most would probably sell. However, the HOA refuses to give owners the option. I've been trying to talk to the HOA for 2 years about various issues, but they defer to the management company. I've talked to the management company, and they are receptive to the idea. They are going to talk to the HOA and get back to me.

I can present the idea at the owner's meeting, and get it in the newsletter that goes out afterwards, but there's only 65 people at the meeting, and who knows how many read the newsletter.

Colorado has nothing in their timeshare statutes requiring they give me the owner's list. And it isn't mentioned in the bylaws.

Why do you insist that we owners should do whatever's necessary to patch together this mixed use resort and continue to pay fees, except as a "last resort". Just because people bought a timeshare 30 years ago, does that mean they should re-evaluate the use of it occassionally? Should we patch it together to benefit timesharing in general, and exchangers in particular? Or should we do what's best for us?

At one time, this timeshare was acceptable. By today's standards, it isn't, and it will never be. It has no pool, only a small indoor hot tub, and no other amenities. The rooms are nice, and in a nice location. It would be a nice wholly owned complex. That's what it started out life to be, except it went bankrupt during the bust in the 80s and some units converted to timeshare. Most of the money spent on interior refurbishment will be wasted, if we sell it as wholly owned, since it won't bring a lot more on the market with new carpet, furniture, etc. Perhaps a bit more, but not much.

 

[Tania]

We've been very pleased with the ten or so exchanges we'de done with RCI.

The one excepton was The Makai Club on Kaui. In 1995, it was listed as a Gold Crown and this resort certainly fell far short of that designation. I certainly expected a lot better than this for a GC in the United States. Today it is listed as a Hospitality so others have agreed with me.

While our one bedroom was large and clean, most windows faced south and the unit heated up considerably during the day. AC only in the bedroom and it could not cool the unit down. The beachtowels we were offered had holes in it. (At a GC resort, I shoudn't have to ask for better towels, fans...) Dinky pool area. Cutlery was of the dimestore variety and bent out of shape. The person selling the timeshares was exceptionally rude.

The only redeeming aspect were the two women organizing the activities.

 

[Carolinian]

PA - We will have to agree to disagree.

You are looking the wrong place for access to a members list. That is unlikely to be in the timeshare statutes, but most HOA's are non-profit corporations, and it is very likely to be in the non-profit corporation statutes.

 

[PA-]

PA - We will have to agree to disagree.

You are looking the wrong place for access to a members list. That is unlikely to be in the timeshare statutes, but most HOA's are non-profit corporations, and it is very likely to be in the non-profit corporation statutes.

Yes, the HOA is set up as non profit in CO. I don't know if the law in CO would force the HOA to turn over the list. I don't have time or inclination to pursue this at this time, as I am spending my time doing the same with a MUCH larger timeshare company for which I am running for the Board.

As for agreeing to disagree; are you disagreeing with me that sometimes it's wiser to shut down a timeshare which financially could stay operational? If so, why? If it's better for the owners to dissolve it rather than spend money trying to patch it up, why would you think that's not the best course of action?

 

[pedro47]

About five (5) years ago the pits was Outer Banks Beach Club I in NC. The
Furniture was outdated !! The saving grace was the outstanding sunrise and sunsets. They were outstanding!!!!!!!!.

 

[CarolynS]

Just a few weeks back we stayed at Club Ocean villas II in OC MD. When we got there our unit had ants. We complained and finally the next day they sent maintenance. Maintenance decided to call an exterminator. The exterminator came and the next day the ants were still there. By the end of the week the ants had infested the unit....our shoes, the bed, the sofa. When we complained we were told okay they would send maintenance again.
Very glad to be home in my own bed.

 

[Carolinian]

Yes, the HOA is set up as non profit in CO. I don't know if the law in CO would force the HOA to turn over the list. I don't have time or inclination to pursue this at this time, as I am spending my time doing the same with a MUCH larger timeshare company for which I am running for the Board.

As for agreeing to disagree; are you disagreeing with me that sometimes it's wiser to shut down a timeshare which financially could stay operational? If so, why? If it's better for the owners to dissolve it rather than spend money trying to patch it up, why would you think that's not the best course of action?

When it is easy to take over a timeshare and pick its bones, it will make too many of them targets for takeover artists. Such an effort is happening right now at Bodie Island Beach Club.

As to availibility of member lists, here is the NC statute on Non-Profit corporations membership lists
(NCGS 55A-7-20):

''Beginning two business days after notice is given of the meeting for which the list was prepared and continuing through the meeting, the list of members shall be availible at the corporation's principal office or at a reasonable place identified in the meeting notice in the city where the meeting will be held for inspection by any members concerning the meeting. A member, personally or by or with his representatives, is entitled on written demand to inspect and, subject to the limitations of NCGS 55A-16-02(c) and GS 55A-16-05 and at his expense, to copy the list at a reasonable time during the period it is availible for inspection.''

The stature goes on to provide for court enforcement if necessary, including award of attorneys fees and court-ordered delay of the meeting.

 

[Carolinian]

About five (5) years ago the pits was Outer Banks Beach Club I in NC. The
Furniture was outdated !! The saving grace was the outstanding sunrise and sunsets. They were outstanding!!!!!!!!.

Since that time, OBBC I has upgraded its units, and has risen from being a standard resort to a Gold Crown. The problem before was Peppertree / Equivest management, but the HOA kicked them out and brought in better management.

 

[PA-]

When it is easy to take over a timeshare and pick its bones, it will make too many of them targets for takeover artists. Such an effort is happening right now at Bodie Island Beach Club.

As to availibility of member lists, here is the NC statute on Non-Profit corporations membership lists
(NCGS 55A-7-20):

''Beginning two business days after notice is given of the meeting for which the list was prepared and continuing through the meeting, the list of members shall be availible at the corporation's principal office or at a reasonable place identified in the meeting notice in the city where the meeting will be held for inspection by any members concerning the meeting. A member, personally or by or with his representatives, is entitled on written demand to inspect and, subject to the limitations of NCGS 55A-16-02(c) and GS 55A-16-05 and at his expense, to copy the list at a reasonable time during the period it is availible for inspection.''

The stature goes on to provide for court enforcement if necessary, including award of attorneys fees and court-ordered delay of the meeting.

I don't understand how any of this is relevant to the topic, but thanks anyway for the information.

The timeshare is in Colorado, not NC, which may or may not have a similar law. And I'm not looking to take over the timeshare, I just say the owners have a right to discuss whether to dump more money putting pearl earrings on this hog, when most of them probably have never realized there is an option. This assessment was dumped on us 6 weeks before the owners meeting, and no notice was given to owners, that I ever saw. That's not right. They say they did an 18 months study of the issues, and didn't even bother to tell the owners? Now they send a bill without any vote on the matter?

I have no doubt that bodie is a prime candidate for closing down, if some investor believes it's worth more if it's not a timeshare. The only issue is, who should benefit from selling it, the owners or an investor. That is a perfect example of my point; these poor suckers have paid all these assessments all these years, and don't have the common sense to sell when they can make big money (unless the investor is wrong). So along comes the investor, pays an average of perhaps $500 - $1000 per week and has a unit worth much more when he sells. Rather than stop him, the timeshare owners should sell and split the money.

 

[aptiva]

My worst was Adventure Inn in Hilton Head. We had a studio with a loft and the bedroom was so small upstairs Kelli had to crawl on her hands and knees to get in the bed. The couch was so lumpy you couldn't even sit on it. Another couple told me they had bugs in the bed . The good thing about it was the location, right on the beach. shaggy

Shaggy
I'm with you all the way!! The WORST!! Furniture so so worn down. Cigarette burns all across the Arborite countertops in Kitchenette & Bathroom. Won't discuss bathtub where I stood on a towel to shower. Yuck!!
If they haven't cleaned it up since 98 =what a shame- because it sits on a beautiful piece of property on the ocean

 

[Carolinian]

I don't understand how any of this is relevant to the topic, but thanks anyway for the information.

The timeshare is in Colorado, not NC, which may or may not have a similar law. And I'm not looking to take over the timeshare, I just say the owners have a right to discuss whether to dump more money putting pearl earrings on this hog, when most of them probably have never realized there is an option. This assessment was dumped on us 6 weeks before the owners meeting, and no notice was given to owners, that I ever saw. That's not right. They say they did an 18 months study of the issues, and didn't even bother to tell the owners? Now they send a bill without any vote on the matter?

I have no doubt that bodie is a prime candidate for closing down, if some investor believes it's worth more if it's not a timeshare. The only issue is, who should benefit from selling it, the owners or an investor. That is a perfect example of my point; these poor suckers have paid all these assessments all these years, and don't have the common sense to sell when they can make big money (unless the investor is wrong). So along comes the investor, pays an average of perhaps $500 - $1000 per week and has a unit worth much more when he sells. Rather than stop him, the timeshare owners should sell and split the money.

Unfortunately, I do not have a copy of the Colorado statutes. I thought that information on a typical statute on the subject would be helpful. I guess not!
But for those Tuggers looking at running for their HOA board, it is worth checking out the comparable statute in their state to get the list to do their own mailings.

Once again you are advocating shutting down timeshares, in this case one that you don't even know anything about. That is not an attitude I would expect on TUG.

At Bodie Island, it is a takeover shark who has convinced some whole owners to support him versus an active Concerned Owners Group of timeshare owners which is vigorously fighting him in court to preserve the timeshare. The HOA BOD, and particularly the wholeowner members have, IMHO, exposed themselves to quite a bit of liability for their actions and inaction in this matter. Fortunately the statutes were written to protect timeshare owners against such sharks by making it very difficult to takeover and crash a timeshare.

 

[gw1400]

Just a few weeks back we stayed at Club Ocean villas II in OC MD. When we got there our unit had ants. We complained and finally the next day they sent maintenance. Maintenance decided to call an exterminator. The exterminator came and the next day the ants were still there. By the end of the week the ants had infested the unit....our shoes, the bed, the sofa. When we complained we were told okay they would send maintenance again.
Very glad to be home in my own bed.

Carolyn,

What unit were you in? Was it a first floor unit? We were there last year on a second floor unit and found the exchange acceptable.

Gene

 

[CarolynS]

Gene,

The unit was on the first floor. I believe the unit number ended in 38. It was around the corner from the indoor pool. When we drove in the lot we drove straight back to the last street and made a left. It was about the fifth unit on the left.

Carolyn

 

[SMcdo]

Sea Mist Resort, Cape Cod. Dark, dingy and moldy with broken fixtures. Plus, nothing really to do there or nearby. Our worst exchange.