WM two-night minimum stay - Management response

[CO skier]

Neither is good to be sure. If I ran a business, I would want my sales at the max capacity I can handle and in WorldMark's case, every unused night means one less customer to try and sell them something. This is not utilizing WorldMark's assets to their fullest potential - which I would think would be a goal of management.

There are different departments within Wyndham with sometimes competing interests.

Only 1 of the five resorts I frequent has a sales presence. When I arrive at the one with a parking pass desk, I tell them I have been to dozens of updates over the years and am a terrible sales prospect. It does not phase them, because they are the marketing department and their job is only to sign me up, not sell me anything.

The two-night minimum is the operations department dealing with a labor shortage. How it might affect sales is none of their concern. Plus, owners booking the one-nighters would use one of the cash options to avoid a housekeeping charge. If they can get the reservations they need with cash plus the credits they already own, why would they buy more? Additionally, checking-in at 4 p.m. and checking-out at 10 a.m. the next morning leaves no time for an update. The two-night minimum likely has little to no effect on sales.

 

[easyrider]

I actually spoke with Worldmark customer care today. We did talk about the 2 night minimum. Why this was put into place was because of covid . In the beginning of covid the housekeepers had to wait 24 hours before entering the unoccupied room. Currently it is 1 to 2 hours after a guest checks out depending on what the state and fed has in place. I asked if Club Wyndham has the same 2 night minimum and was told yes depending on location. I was told all Worldmarks are fully staffed so it isn't a labor shortage. There is no word on when this policy will change as of today.

We also talked about Moab. The resort is totally built and the reason it is open is because they haven't been able to furnish the rooms because of shortages. There is no furniture.

Bill

 

[CO skier]

I was told all Worldmarks are fully staffed so it isn't a labor shortage.

I am sure the Customer Care agents are trained to be comforting and reassuring.

Think about that statement for 10 seconds. Really? All WorldMarks are fully staffed? This is never the case, and post-Covid is worse.

Think about that statement for 20 seconds more. Why are there so many Housekeepers Wanted online ads at so many WorldMark resorts? I doubt that it is because the resorts are fully staffed.

 

[easyrider]

I am sure the Customer Care agents are trained to be comforting and reassuring.

Think about that statement for 10 seconds. Really? All WorldMarks are fully staffed? This is never the case, and post-Covid is worse.

Think about that statement for 20 seconds more. Why are there so many Housekeepers Wanted online ads at so many WorldMark resorts? I doubt that it is because the resorts are fully staffed.

Where are these help wanted adds for WM ? Our next WM trip is a few units at the beach. There are zero vacancies in all of the units for the entire summer. Think about that, zero vacancies.

Bill

 

[CO skier]

Where are these help wanted adds for WM ?

On the internet.

Here is a link for housekeeper positions at the resort where I am staying at WM Steamboat Springs -- one of the larger resorts. (I did not experience any delay in checking-in at 5 p.m. on a Sunday. Not sure if that means anything for a Fri. or Sat. check-in.)

wyndham steamboat springs help wanted - Google Search

Earlier in this thread, I found Wyndham ads for housekeepers in Orlando. Pick most any WorldMark resort of size, and you can probably find housekeeper ads online.

 

[CO skier]

There are zero vacancies in all of the units for the entire summer. Think about that, zero vacancies.

Could a shortage of housekeepers be the reason why there are many complaints about not being able to check-in to WM Seaside until 7 p.m. or later? Think about that. Zero vacancies, a shortage of housekeepers. What does that equal? Late, sometimes very late check-in.

I bet if you looked online, Wyndham is advertising for housekeeper positions at WM Seaside.

 

[HudsHut]

@easyride Thanks for the update on Moab - many have been wondering. I wrote to ask if they had a projected opening date and received a reply with no information.

 

[easyrider]

Could a shortage of housekeepers be the reason why there are many complaints about not being able to check-in to WM Seaside until 7 p.m. or later? Think about that. Zero vacancies, a shortage of housekeepers. What does that equal? Late, sometimes very late check-in.

I bet if you looked online, Wyndham is advertising for housekeeper positions at WM Seaside.

Do realize there is a difference between cleaning a room and disinfecting a room ? Each state's health department sets guidelines for transient lodging which often includes a time lapse between when a room is vacated and the start of cleaning. My point is that this is what the customer care person said and I think she is correct. I would bet that as soon as Covid rules have tapered off the 1 night bonus time will be back.

Why wouldn't Wyndham advertise for job openings ? Many of the positions needing to be filled are the type that have a large employee turnover because of the pay scale.

Bill

 

[Ty1on]

Where are these help wanted adds for WM ? Our next WM trip is a few units at the beach. There are zero vacancies in all of the units for the entire summer. Think about that, zero vacancies.

Bill

Sorry, but this is a bit of a non-sequitur argument....You can independently by at 100% occupancy and understaffed.

 

[j.d.]

At Worldmark Oceanside there is a HUGH sign looking for workers! Instead of checking in at 4:00 pm i was informed the room was not ready, i drove to In-In-Out Burger and purchased dinner!
I drove back to Worldmark Oceanside and got out of the vehicle and went to the pool! I was able to check in at 5:40pm! I am NOT upset but i asked the front desk that maybe- in the future just email me what time is BEST! I do not mind checking in later if that would make check in easier! The 10:00 oclock check out needs to go back to NooN!

 

[tschwa2]

I am NOT upset but i asked the front desk that maybe- in the future just email me what time is BEST! I do not mind checking in later if that would make check in easier! The 10:00 oclock check out needs to go back to NooN!

I've always thought resorts should have 1/3-1/4 of the units with check in 6pm and check out noon and perhaps even some 3pm check in and 9 am check out times.

 

[easyrider]

Sorry, but this is a bit of a non-sequitur argument....You can independently by at 100% occupancy and understaffed.

I agree that when you are at 100% occupancy you could be understaffed but that statement doesn't equate to being anything more than a generalization because it proves or disproves nothing.

My point is they are at 100% occupancy and getting the rooms ready for new guests each day because they have enough employees to do so which would mean they could be understaffed but apparently getting the job done each day. Each labor market is different so undoubtedly there are some resorts that may be understaffed while others not so much.

Bill

 

[sparty]

Not sure why nobody talks about the late check in and late check out option. I've used it a couple times. To me it is fantastic that Worldmark offers it. I wish all the resorts would offer it, but so far it's been limited.. I've used it at Seaside.

 

[rhonda]

Not sure why nobody talks about the late check in and late check out option. I've used it a couple times. To me it is fantastic that Worldmark offers it. I wish all the resorts would offer it, but so far it's been limited.. I've used it at Seaside.

I hadn't heard of it! Sure could have used it on our last stay at Oceanside. We checked in late (~9p) and were never offered a late checkout. Meeting the 10a checkout was a beast and I left behind a new'ish led flashlight ... I know exactly where I left it (magnetically attached to the hinge of the murphy bed; impossible to miss when closing the murphy) but it wasn't turned into the Lost'n'Found. We were really scrambling to be out by 10a. Ugh. Sigh.

 

[troy12n]

You guys should feel lucky that WM only did this in May of this year. Wyndham instituted the "no 1 day bookings" policy in September of 2020 for us... and they have not allowed checkout past 10am (it's been 10am for years, but would allow "late checkout") since the Pandemic started and they "re-opened"

 

[CO skier]

I hadn't heard of it! Sure could have used it on our last stay at Oceanside.

Late check-in/late checkout is not a Club policy. It is resort specific, and Seaside is the only resort that offers it, afaik. You would need to call ahead so that your reservation could be scheduled for late arrival.

 

[CO skier]

You guys should feel lucky that WM only did this in May of this year. Wyndham instituted the "no 1 day bookings" policy in September of 2020 for us... and they have not allowed checkout past 10am (it's been 10am for years, but would allow "late checkout") since the Pandemic started and they "re-opened"

The two-night minimum policy for WorldMark reservations began on September 3, 2020. Any one-night reservations booked before that date would be honored, so it is possible that there are some grandfathered one-night reservations still out there.

 

[troy12n]

The two-night minimum policy for WorldMark reservations began on September 3, 2020. Any one-night reservations booked before that date would be honored, so it is possible that there are some grandfathered one-night reservations still out there.

Ok, thats about the same time it started for us, I guess I misunderstood some of the timings in other posts

 

[smmora]

It is a VERY simple calculation for any owner who might want to look it up in the Treasurers Reports instead of staying uniformed and reverting to unfounded "bs" statements.

From the most recent Treasurers Report:
Housekeeping Expense: $39,117,560
+ Laundry Expense $5,198,950
Equals $44,316,510
Divided by 346,911 total turns in 2020
Equals $127.75 per turn

These are the straightforward facts that any accountant (or member) could understand.

Covid-19 in 2020 definitely skewed the number higher, but even before Covid-19, the average HK cost per turn was $99.31. (See the December 31, 2019 Treasurers Report for the details.)

Wouldn't the per room charge be less because housekeeping and laundry would apply to all cleaning at the resort.
Lobby, hallways, pools, gaming areas, garages, etc and each resort has different common areas

 

[magmue]

Wouldn't the per room charge be less because housekeeping and laundry would apply to all cleaning at the resort.

Great point, illustrating my earlier comment about cost centers, and how things can be shuffled to craft a misleading narrative.

 

[Icc5]

The question I have is without allowing the one day stays are the points being sold matching the time available?
I thought the resorts or company as a whole could not sell more points then rooms. It used to be in weeks they could only sell 50 weeks times the # of units and those two extra weeks were used for remodels,etc.
How does that work with points and when you eliminate some days?
Bart

 

[CO skier]

The question I have is without allowing the one day stays are the points being sold matching the time available?
I thought the resorts or company as a whole could not sell more points then rooms. It used to be in weeks they could only sell 50 weeks times the # of units and those two extra weeks were used for remodels,etc.
How does that work with points and when you eliminate some days?
Bart

Your question was answered in post #49.

WM two-night minimum stay - Management response

If the average LOS goes up a substantial amount in 2021 when 1 night stays were not allowed this is a rough way to estimate what % of stays are 1 night stays. Which shows had badly this decision by the BOD was against the interest of many members. ... or how effective the policy was to help...

tugbbs.com

 

[CO skier]

Wouldn't the per room charge be less because housekeeping and laundry would apply to all cleaning at the resort.
Lobby, hallways, pools, gaming areas, garages, etc and each resort has different common areas

No, because every reservation shares in the total cost of housekeeping.

 

[samara64]

Nights that expire unused are entirely common in WorldMark. What about when an entire week expires unused? That was seven one-night stays that could have been booked (prior to the change). Really no different than 7 scattered, stand alone nights in terms of vacancies.

Take a look at the 4-month booking calender for 2 bedroom units at WM Rancho Vistoso. 5+ units will expire unoccupied every day for the next months. The comparatively few, scattered single nights are nothing by comparison.

I fully understand that but there is a difference if they expired because there is no demand for the rooms or because of some dumb rules.

 

[samara64]

Rooms offline is an issue too.

I just came back from a Worldmark stay where I had 2 reservations. Sun-Tuesday and Tuesday to Friday all in a 3BR. As I never been to the resort, I did it this way so if I do not like the place, I can cancel the last 3 days and we had other cancelable reservations.

I liked the resort and tried to switch the last 3 days to BT. That was 9PM on Sunday after VP has closed. After canceling, I tried to rebook same room and it says room off line on Tuesday but is ok for Wed-Friday. I went ahead and booked the last 2 days but now I am missing a day in the middle of reservation. I figured I will go to a Marriott Hotel as it was close by and I have lots of certificates due to COVID.

Next morning I called Owner Care and explained. They said to go to resort manager and ask to joint he reservations which I did. They filled out a paper to cover my stay cost for the Tuesday night and faxed it to Owner Care to charge my CC. So I was able to stay in same room for the entire time.

Resort manager said I have plenty of rooms and he could not understand why this was happening. He said it is inventory control so he called them and they released the room.

Really WM would have lost in such scenario. Room stays vacant on Tuesday so no income as no once can rent it for one night. An extra cleaning has to be done on Tuesday in addition to Friday. I have to move out all our stuff and come back next day.

It is the new Wyndham.