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WM two-night minimum stay - Management response

DaveNV

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So I saw on the WM website calendar that there are miscellaneous single nights available at many resorts. These nights are unable to be booked, and so effectively are wasted. More directly, I have an evening event booked in Las Vegas next month, and while looking for accommodations, I see that there is a lot of availability at the three LV locations, but again, a single night cannot be booked. So WM forced me to look to other accommodations for the night. This basically forces me to take my business elsewhere, which defeats the point of why I bought WorldMark in the first place. I left "weeks" ownerships because I wanted short stays. If I want a single night's stay somewhere, and I'm paying all the fees involved, including housekeeping charges, then it should not matter how long I book that location. So weeks ago, I contacted WorldMark through their website, and sent this frustrated message:

"WorldMark needs to know they are about to lose me as a customer. This asinine two-night minimum booking requirement absolutely ruins the point of being able to book short stays. If I'm already paying for housekeeping, why should it matter how many nights I stay at a resort? If I am doing a driving trip and need a one-night stay somewhere, WorldMark is forcing me to choose another lodging option. Stop this stupid two-night requirement!!"

This morning I received this reply:

"Hello David,

Thank you for contacting WorldMark the Club Owner Care, and I apologize for the delay in our response. We appreciate you taking the time to reach out to us.

I am sorry for any frustration you have experienced with this guideline change. While a one-night stay and a full week stay may not have a lot of differences on the surface, the overall impact to the resorts of the Club is our focus. One-night stays increase the amount of room cleanings that our housekeepers must accomplish due to the larger quantities of owners checking in and out of the resort. Maintaining our enhanced Vacation Ready cleanliness standards becomes an impossibility with this level of traffic. This is a big change for our owners and is a policy that will be under consistent review as the COVID-19 pandemic progresses. At this time there is no indication that this change is permanent.

WorldMark has Implemented enhanced cleaning methods and standards to minimize any risk to our owners, and maximize safety. To fully implement and fulfill these protocols and follow mandatory social distancing measures, our housekeeping staff requires additional time and resources to service our units. As such, we have suspended the one-night booking option effective on September 3, 2020.

We understand this is a big change for many of our owners, but hope this will help keep our owners and employees safe. The one night stay suspension option will be reevaluated on a regular basis in order to best serve our owners throughout the COVID-19 pandemic.

As a Club, we remain fully committed to deliver hospitality with heart to our valued owners. If you require immediate assistance please contact the Reservation Department at 1-800-457-0103 Monday - Friday 6:00am - 7:00pm PT and Saturday/Sunday 6:00am - 5:00pm PT.

Regards,
Richard H.
Owner Strategy Specialist – WorldMark the Club"


I haven't replied, and doubt I will. I understood the Covid cleaning thing during the lockdown, but now WM is pushing that the resorts are all open and ready to be booked. They want us to act as Owners did before the pandemic. Ok, so then I think the time has come for them to let Owners use their credits as before. The way I see it, is that I am unable to use what I am paying for.

I'm offering this information here for those who may have a longer history with WM, and who may have a better opinion on this. What do you think?

Dave
 

RX8

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The scary thing is that once a change has been made, even if they say it is temporary, is that it will eventually become the norm. Hopefully WM doesn’t end up where HGVC is with a three day minimum.
 

bnoble

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I'm inclined to give companies a pass on this sort of thing at the moment. The labor market is very tight, and it might be hard to hire the necessary staff at a reasonable price point.

As the labor market cools down (and I expect it will) I would hope that most of these things will change. Hope springs eternal I guess.
 

magmue

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Maddening
One-night stays increase the amount of room cleanings that our housekeepers must accomplish due to the larger quantities of owners checking in and out of the resort. Maintaining our enhanced Vacation Ready cleanliness standards becomes an impossibility with this level of traffic
It is an Impossibility only if you think of the housekeeping staff as a fixed and finite entity. I am willing to believe that WM's "enhanced" cleaning standards take more time than their previous standards. It's very hard to accept that the ~$80 housekeeping fee doesn't cover it and then some.
 

easyrider

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What do you think?
It sucks !!! We were using bonus time to travel to other destinations where just spending the night was all we needed. The room is basically very clean when we leave. I don't get this bs about enhanced cleaning but I do know that at many resorts there is a shortage of workers which is likely the problem.

The last bike ride we stayed two nights in Bend. It would have been better to stay a night in Bend and a night in Klamath Falls.

Bill
 

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Keep sounding off to the WM BOD. When we stayed at Bison Ranch (a shared Resort between Wyndham and Worldmark) in May we found out Wyndham Members were still able to Book 1 night stays.
 

JohnPaul

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Keep sounding off to the WM BOD. When we stayed at Bison Ranch (a shared Resort between Wyndham and Worldmark) in May we found out Wyndham Members were still able to Book 1 night stays.
That’s surprising to me as Wyndham also eliminated 1 night stays at Shell.
 

sun starved Gayle

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I too am dismayed at this current no one night reservation policy. I live within a couple hours driving distance of several resorts and we used to use a single night during bonus time a lot. Seeing single nights available at Seaside in an ocean front penthouse unit and not being able to reserve it just kills me.
I have to think that bonus time was one of the ways people who could not plan ahead could use their points.
The one night reservations are so handy while traveling too. A couple of years ago on our way to Yosemite, we did one night in Klamath Falls, one night in Angel’s Camp on the front end of trip and one night in Bass Lake at the end.
It makes no sense that Wyndham owners can still book one night stays and Worldmark owners cannot.
 

GrayFal

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Join the club

Bluegreen randomly stopped one night reservations as well
You used to be able to search for one or two nights bonus time.

When searching for one night night, you could book it but pay for two nights which pretty much everyone was okay with.
Especially Bluegreen who collected double the fee for a one night stay.

One day two months ago they stopped allowing it and sneakily went in and changed the language on the website.
And then pretended it was always like that.


Points reservations have always been 2-14 days. Bonus time kicks in mostly 45 days out.
 

magmue

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It makes no sense that Wyndham owners can still book one night stays and Worldmark owners cannot.
It makes the wrong kind of sense. It means that WM (and Shell) owners are second class citizens who don't get the same privileges in using points they have paid for as Wyndham owners do.

Probably makes it easier for Wyndham owners to book some of the more popular WM resorts as well, if they can scoop up those lonely little one-nighters. Win-Win for Wyndham.
 

CO skier

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It is an Impossibility only if you think of the housekeeping staff as a fixed and finite entity. I am willing to believe that WM's "enhanced" cleaning standards take more time than their previous standards. It's very hard to accept that the ~$80 housekeeping fee doesn't cover it and then some.
In the December 31, 2021 Treasurers Report, each turn of a unit cost $127.75 on average. So WorldMark is losing $47.27 on every one-night stay booked at the $80 minimum. Except WorldMark does not "lose" any money. That money has to come from somewhere, and that somewhere is the maintenance fees of all members. So for the most part, owners who do not book one-night stays are subsidizing owners who do book only single nights. Is this fair to all owners?
 

CO skier

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Is Worldmark/Wyndham renting out these single nights for cash? If so, that blows the whole story into smithereens.
No, because the nights are available and remain available online until expiration for owners to add to existing reservations, or to book when a contiguous night(s) become available. If Wyndham was renting out these single nights, they would not appear on the WorldMark booking calendar.
 

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I'm offering this information here for those who may have a longer history with WM, and who may have a better opinion on this. What do you think?
I think anyone who wants to quit WorldMark over the 2-night minimum is overreacting. WorldMark is, after all, a timeshare not a hotel.

I liked to book one-nighters, but understand and agree with the point made upthread that the 2-night minimum is the result of a labor shortage in addition to enhanced Covid cleaning protocols. The lifting of Covid mask mandates and other restrictions does not solve the labor shortage. The 2-night minimum will be with us until well after the enhanced unemployment benefits end.
 

DaveNV

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I think anyone who wants to quit WorldMark over the 2-night minimum is overreacting. WorldMark is, after all, a timeshare not a hotel.

I liked to book one-nighters, but understand and agree with the point made upthread that the 2-night minimum is the result of a labor shortage in addition to enhanced Covid cleaning protocols. The lifting of Covid mask mandates and other restrictions does not solve the labor shortage. The 2-night minimum will be with us until well after the enhanced unemployment benefits end.
Not the only reason I am considering giving up my ownership. But booking single night stays was a big selling point reason for me when I purchased. Odd as it may sound, now that I am retired, I am increasingly disinterested in timeshare traveling, at least with WorldMark. The locations I want to visit are in places where WorldMark has no facilities. I really don't use the facilities as much more than a hotel, so the extra space, while appreciated, is rarely used. For example: I have never used the oven in a timeshare kitchen. Not even once. For me, WorldMark IS a kind of hotel, and it's my prerogative to use it that way. That was why I purchased it in the first place. :shrug:

As to WorldMark allowing single night booking being unfair to other owners? I don't agree, because everyone would have the opportunity to book single nights, if they wanted to. Just as those extra nights can be added to a longer booking, allowing someone to book the single nights and pay the stated housekeeping fee for it makes it available to someone who uses their credits for that night. Arbitrarily removing it from the booking option makes it unfair to those who choose to book short stays. And by forcing those units to go unused, they are in a sense devaluing what Owners are paying for.

If the labor shortage is the real (and "only") reason they aren't allowing the booking of single nights, that's one thing. If it's a temporary thing that will definitely be removed at some point, that's also a thing. But if it's just another way the use in WorldMark ownership is being chipped away from Owners, the value in the ownership is decreasing, and becomes less valuable for some to be paying for. At this moment in time, I am one of those individuals.

Dave
 

geist1223

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For over the past 20 years the average Worldmark stay has been only a little over 3 nights. If that is the average then there has to be a lot of 1 night and 2 night stays to account for all of the Members that stay a week or longer. It will be interesting to see what the average is for 2021 with no 1 night stays allowed.
 

presley

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I already gave up my WM a few years ago, but one of the biggest benefits to me when I owned it was the one night stays. Being able to take a car trip and stay a night at each stop was very appealing as was other things like staying one night before a cruise, which I never did, but it was nice to know it was an option. I can understand why you'd want to get rid of your WM if this was no longer an option. It is possible that it will change back at some point. The Covid era might be coming to an end for the most part, but it will still take a while for businesses to get back to normal or to find out what their new normal is going to be.
 

magmue

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In the December 31, 2021 Treasurers Report, each turn of a unit cost $127.75 on average. So WorldMark is losing $47.27 on every one-night stay booked at the $80 minimum.
On the other hand, I have nearly 9,000 points expiring at the end of September. With travel still restricted in many ways, I will probably need to Rent those out to recover some of the MF paid for them. The two housekeeping tokens associated with those points will not transfer with the points. So assuming WM/Wyndham has their cost for unit-turnover built into the housekeeping tokens awarded per 10,000 points, that will boost their profit margin to the tune of $255.50.
If I could book a single night and use an expiring HK token, I wouldn't have to rent the expiring points, and I wouldn't lose the expiring HK, and WM wouldn't lose anything, since I have already paid for the points and the built-in token.
 

easyrider

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In the December 31, 2021 Treasurers Report, each turn of a unit cost $127.75 on average. So WorldMark is losing $47.27 on every one-night stay booked at the $80 minimum. Except WorldMark does not "lose" any money. That money has to come from somewhere, and that somewhere is the maintenance fees of all members. So for the most part, owners who do not book one-night stays are subsidizing owners who do book only single nights. Is this fair to all owners?
How are they figuring costs ? It sounds like bs because there is no way it cost $80 to clean a room. They usually only take 90 minutes or less to do a room that has been rented for a week.

Bill
 

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For over the past 20 years the average Worldmark stay has been only a little over 3 nights. If that is the average then there has to be a lot of 1 night and 2 night stays to account for all of the Members that stay a week or longer. It will be interesting to see what the average is for 2021 with no 1 night stays allowed.
Why does the average stay matter to any WM member? Suspending one-night stays would increase the average stay ever-so-slightly. So what?
 

CO skier

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So assuming WM/Wyndham has their cost for unit-turnover built into the housekeeping tokens awarded per 10,000 points, that will boost their profit margin to the tune of $255.50.
Sorry, you are very confused about Housekeeping cost accounting. The numbers represent only the total housekeeping costs divided by the number of unit turns. If any owner does not use a HK token, there is no monetary value associated with it for accounting purposes; it just expires.
 

CO skier

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How are they figuring costs ? It sounds like bs because there is no way it cost $80 to clean a room. They usually only take 90 minutes or less to do a room that has been rented for a week.

Bill
It is a VERY simple calculation for any owner who might want to look it up in the Treasurers Reports instead of staying uniformed and reverting to unfounded "bs" statements.

From the most recent Treasurers Report:
Housekeeping Expense: $39,117,560
+ Laundry Expense $5,198,950
Equals $44,316,510
Divided by 346,911 total turns in 2020
Equals $127.75 per turn

These are the straightforward facts that any accountant (or member) could understand.

Covid-19 in 2020 definitely skewed the number higher, but even before Covid-19, the average HK cost per turn was $99.31. (See the December 31, 2019 Treasurers Report for the details.)
 

geist1223

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It
Why does the average stay matter to any WM member? Suspending one-night stays would increase the average stay ever-so-slightly. So what?
If the average LOS goes up a substantial amount in 2021 when 1 night stays were not allowed this is a rough way to estimate what % of stays are 1 night stays. Which shows had badly this decision by the BOD was against the interest of many members.
 

easyrider

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It is a VERY simple calculation for any owner who might want to look it up in the Treasurers Reports instead of staying uniformed and reverting to unfounded "bs" statements.

From the most recent Treasurers Report:
Housekeeping Expense: $39,117,560
+ Laundry Expense $5,198,950
Equals $44,316,510
Divided by 346,911 total turns in 2020
Equals $127.75 per turn

These are the straightforward facts that any accountant (or member) could understand.

Covid-19 in 2020 definitely skewed the number higher, but even before Covid-19, the average HK cost per turn was $99.31. (See the December 31, 2019 Treasurers Report for the details.)
I wonder what is included in the housekeeping expense ? It has to be more than the wage and benefit package because there is no way it takes more than 90 minutes to clean a room. My bet is there is a Wyndham management cost that is more than the actual housekeeping wage.

Thanks for providing the numbers.

Bill
 
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