WKORV reservations -- 365 days out but still 2nd floor?

[DavidnRobin]

I think W5* was referencing posting style (which I got over a long time ago). No one is being childish - personal preferences do exist - we have ours (2529 or 2629) for reasons we stated, but we were quite happy to be in 3529, and would make do with whatever we received as long as it was reasonably fair. I believe this gets amplified for WKORV OF villas due to having so few compared to the other villas at WKORV/N (less choice).

I agree with Greg - I was trying to respond to the OP in regards to OFD for the Home Owners reservation period (8-12 months) and was trying to avoid propragating misinformation in regards to view/location when it was stated that multi-week owners get preference (from 8-12 months) - as it is my opinion and observation that this is untrue.

As stated - it is challenging for WKORV to keep everyone happy in location requests (especially with those that feel they have some perceived entitlement that is not in writing - I have witnessed this more than once) - and more so when there are availability limitations as with the WKORV OFs. They obviously learned their lessons in the design of WKORVN and WPORV.

Side-Note: I must say that our TUG visitor was quite different in person (as I am sure I am as well) - and like with Robin and me - our wives are much sweeter people and definately our better halves...

also - thanks to W5* - his suggestion to have the reservationist reserve the 2nd week in the 1Bd side worked out quite well - or I would have been complaining about being on the 1st-4th floor (is there a wink with a laughing emoticon to add here?) Actually, we would not had gotten in at all for our week - so it worked out great. Plus, I was able to rent the studio side for 2012 later in the year.

 

[Mookie]

Just to bring this back to my original post, here is the gripe: I pay 3K in maintenence fees for the OFD and get up at 4am to book, I don't think it's too much to ask for transparency in the reservation process. It's not about 3rd floor v. 2nd floor, it's about Starwood managing expectations by coming up with a better process. I can guarantee you that not all the people above me called and reserved seconds before me -- it's statistically unrealistic for a week that's not Presidents Day, Easter, etc. Perhaps a few came the week before, and were automatically loaded into the system earlier, but not all 13. Anyway, I could pay 3K a year on shorter notice for a rental and be guaranteed a better view than I have now, which is my opportunity cost. If I knew I was 14, I might have tried for a different week. Either way, I think we can all agree it is a flawed system.

 

[jarta]

"It's not about 3rd floor v. 2nd floor"

"Perhaps more troubling is that I had requested highest floor, and when they looked someone who called after me was put in a unit higher than me. When I asked why this was, they told me that the resort ranks rooms itself, and a second floor pool view is more desirable than a third floor view that looks north (we booked our entire unit)."

I guess it really isn't.

If that one person who called after you was not on the 3rd floor with you on the 2nd, would you be happy? I doubt it. You'd still be complaining about the other 13 people (this week your neighbors) who called and made their reservation before you did. ... eom

 

[readyalready]

I hope that unit is growing on you and you are enjoying your vacation, and that this morning is the worst weather we have. If you really are on the second floor, you probably do have a better view than the foliage blocked 3 and 4. We stayed in that corner one year and loved that you could walk out to the pool without needing to use any stairs or wait for any elevator (guess I'm lazy and impatient). We found it a very convenient location to pool, beach north side and parking. Until yesterday, it was at the top of my all time favorite unit/experience list.

I think working the front desk at WKORV has to be one of the worst in the villas systems, I think they get so many complaints about units they just shut everyone down. We also had a frustrating assignment with a person on crutches one year, and there was no mercy.

One of my kids asked if we could please be happy with the first room we got this year and not try to move. It made me realize that I've wasted too many vacation minutes worrying about rooms, hope you can enjoy more of yours too.

 

[DavidnRobin]

We stayed in 3229 in 2006 - no issues - and there were more trees then. I did find that palm in front of 2429 annoying (due to its proximity), but was no big issue. After looking at the villas - I would agree that floor 3 may be the worst.

Mookie - you math is not including the dual Checkin day and owners splitting and not splitting their villas including those who had other methods (like contacting the person that assigns rooms), and owners adding on days before or after their standard stay of 1 or 2 weeks. Plus, not accounting that the reservationist may have not pushed 'enter' right away (what is the time on the reservation confirmation sent? ).

There are way too many variables - complicated by too few OF villas - giving less flexibility. I don't think that the front desk people should give out the 'number' ( I don't recall ever asking) - not sure why they do since it just creates issues - or have to put up with unhappy customers. And do not envy them, or the person trying to make assignments.

An online reservation system that was smart might solve some issues - but with 24 OFD villas and 12 OFC villas - and all the scenarios taken into account - even that becomes challenging because what ones preference may be may not be that of another person. Besides SVO just getting a basic reservation system is a dream.

I agree that at some point the effort worrying and stressing about villa location outweighs the benefit of incremental changes in view.

 

[zinger1457]

One of my kids asked if we could please be happy with the first room we got this year and not try to move. It made me realize that I've wasted too many vacation minutes worrying about rooms, hope you can enjoy more of yours too.

Sometimes we just need our kids to bring us back to our senses! So many people spend so much time planning and agonizing over every little detail of their trip to make it perfect, including room location, that they are almost guaranteed to be disappointed. Sure I would prefer an ocean front room to a parking lot view but if I'm going all the way to Maui for a vacation I'm not going to be spending much time sitting on my balcony. The best ocean views are only a 5 minute walk away!

 

[DavidnRobin]

also - see this post (as not to duplicate) regarding location requests
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1260989&postcount=19

To follow-up with situation that can further complicate location assignments (forgot to add) - people that add on days before or after their standard 1 or 2 week stays.

In addition - please see email excerpt from SVO regarding location assignments from a couple of years ago.
"...we do have a more restrictive policy at Ka'anapali Ocean Resort due to the view categories. Villas are assigned based on date and time stamp and villas are assigned highest to lowest. You are guaranteed your view type only during HRPP, however not the location of the villa. Due to the continuous challenge at this property with the view categories and the problems from owners at check in, we have been asked to limit the special requests as much as possible.

We have tried over several years to find a "best solution" for this problem, as it is a major problem, however we have not been very successful. This policy has worked the best with setting realistic owner expectations and reducing the complaints upon check in. This change was made in February 2010. In the past when we entered view requests and floor requests at Ka'anapali with "no guarantee" many owners still complained and were still/are dissatisfied upon check in if we are not able to fulfill that request. It is an issue we have tried to solve while trying to be fair to every owner. I appreciate that you understand "no guarantee" many more do not."

So... SVO, Owner Services and the Resorts are quite aware of the location requests issues in HI - if someone has a better solution - I suggest contacting Owner Services

 

[Fredm]

Auto Book

Don't forget the "auto book" or ULTRA owners. All of these sit in front of the time/date stamp.

Snowbirds tend to own them. So, weeks 1-10 have a disproportionate number of auto book owners. At least that is my impression.

Given the very limited number of OF units it would, for example, only take 2 auto book owners to wipe out 6th floor availability for OF Center in a given week. 3 auto book owners would leave one 5th floor unit available. Not hard to imagine that the 14th caller may not get 4th floor (during the winter months).

OFD has twice as many units (and twice as many owners). Same principle.

ETA: to the OP: now that the economy is recovering, and KOR is sold out, it may become increasingly difficult to get a desired specific reservation date - period - during snowbird/whale watching season.
This has already become an issue with certain summer weeks.
So, although I do appreciate your disappointment with getting a 2nd floor unit, at least you were able to reserve. I expect to see more howling from those unable to reserve a first choice date during peak demand weeks.

 

[PamMo]

What Fred said. ;-)

From my very limited experience (booking our 3 units each of the last two years), calling in exactly at 9AM at 12 months out, those oceanfront units are hard to get! For 2013, I was able to get one unit for the week I wanted, but not two, let alone three. In our travels, we've noticed resort occupancy is MUCH higher this year. Either the economy really is getting better, or people have decided they're not going to put off their vacations indefinitely, and they are taking that much needed break. I'm just grateful that we haven't been assigned an oceanfront tree view yet.

I'll add that I do like the fixed week/units we own at Harborside and Cabo. Those vacations are very easy to plan for!

 

[DavidnRobin]

Not sure what the difference is between Ultra Premium Ownership, and Event Week and a Fixed Vacation Period - An event week is a fixed week during an Event period (such as Xmas, NY, and Golden and Obon week) - how does an Ultra Premium differ at WKORV? Isn't this a fixed week during a specific period like President's Day? Or is it something different?

I know that WSJ has Ultra weeks - but not sure if WKORV has them (other than event weeks).

The WKORV Governing Docs mention 4 different VOIs; Float, Fixed, Event, and Ultra - but it doesn't really define Ultra week being different than an Event week or Fixed week - other than it is automatically reserved (however, my WSJ fixed week is also automatically reserved now, but probally because it is a fixed villa as well)

I guess I was lucky to end up in 3529 - thanks to the advice to let the reservationist reserve the 2nd week.

From the KOR Governing Docs:
4.1 Making a Reservation.
a. Reservation Window; First-Come, First-Served. Each SVN Member will be permitted to use a Vacation Period during such SVN Member's Use Year, subject to availability. SVN Members who own Biennial VOIs have a Use Year that occurs every other year. Other than a reservation for an Ultra Premium Vacation Period, an Event Vacation Period, or a Fixed Vacation Period during the Home Resort Fixed Priority Period, reservation requests for a particular Vacation Period will be taken on a first-come, first-served basis within the Vacation Period's Reservation Window, in accordance with the reservation periods set forth below. An SVN Member may only make a reservation for an available Vacation Period during that Vacation Period's Reservation Window.

Ultra Premium Vacation Ownership Interest means a VOI for which a particular SVN Member has an automatic, confirmed reservation of a specified Vacation Period, View type and Unit type at the SVN Member’s Home Resort as set forth in the Resort Documents for the SVN Member’s Home Resort and in accordance with the SVN Rules. Ultra Premium Resort Intervals at Harborside Resort Condominium I and Harborside Resort Condominium II also include a right to reserve the specific Unit designated on the Owner’s deed. Ultra Premium VOIs may not exist in every SVN Resort.

 

[DavidnRobin]

upon further investigation of the WKORV Governing Docs...

It appears that an Ultra Premium VOI is one that is a fixed week/villa that is automatically reserved. It is hard to tell if this is a fixed villa as well, but it appears to be.

A Fixed VOI has a 10% premium to the base price
An Ultra Premium VOI has a 30% premium to the base price
A Fixed villa has a 10% premium to the base price (in addition to the added premiums for the event weeks)
{this last part is a bit confusing}

As of 2010, the normal (non event weeks) VOIs are priced at by SVO:
1Bd OV - $42900 (common % interest per unit = 0.2854, ~995sqft), MFs = $1997
2Bd LO IV - $54900 (%inter = 0.3383, ~1470sqft), MF = $2346
2Bd LO OV - $72900 (%inter = 0.3383, ~1470sqft), MF = $2346
2Bd LO IVD - $56900 (%inter = 0.4661, ~1800sqft), MF = $3190
2Bd LO OVD - $72900 (%inter = 0.4661, ~1800sqft), MF = $3190
2Bd LO OFC - $109900 (%inter = 0.3383, ~1700sqft), MF = $2346
2Bd LO OFD - $124900 (%inter = 0.4461, ~1800sqft), MF = $3190

yikes! considering the price of resales!
also - it seems unfair that the 2Bd OFC has the same %common interest (MF determinate) as the other 2Bd LOs (non-Dlx), but is so much larger due to the added lanai for the studio side (whereas the std studios only have a juliet balcony)

Anyway - it appears to be quite a premium (+30%) to have an Ultra Premium VOI that just fixes your week/villa and is automatically reserved.

ps - I didn't know 'spicy' stated in jest was prohibited - must add that to the 'rules'

 

[DeniseM]

Hi David - yes, it is a fixed week and fixed villa. I know someone who owns 3 in the hammer head at WPORV. Their weeks/villas are automatically reserved for them with no call.

I don't think Spicy is prohibited - in fact, I'm going to add it to my signature line.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Hi David - yes, it is a fixed week and fixed villa. I know someone who owns 3 in the hammer head at WPORV. Their weeks/villas are automatically reserved for them with no call.

I don't think Spicy is prohibited - in fact, I'm going to add it to my signature line.

It is interesting to have the Ultra designation - when I was inquirying about buying a fixed week and fixed villa at WPORV - they were charging me 10% to fix the week (Labor Day) and 10% on top of that to fix the villa (7122/21) - total ~22% added premium - but that is less than the 30% added premium as an Ultra Premium designation. Meaning if you fixed the week and villa - then it should not be an issue to reserve your week/villa (obviously - other than calling to confirm at 10-14 months out before they changed it to auto reserved). Then what is the difference in Ultra at 30% more? What am I missing? So you do not have to call at all?

I am going to go by ultra spicy premium...
I must have missed the deleted posts - no jesting with jarta allowed?

 

[Fredm]

I

t appears that an Ultra Premium VOI is one that is a fixed week/villa that is automatically reserved. It is hard to tell if this is a fixed villa as well, but it appears to be.

A Fixed VOI has a 10% premium to the base price
An Ultra Premium VOI has a 30% premium to the base price
A Fixed villa has a 10% premium to the base price (in addition to the added premiums for the event weeks)
{this last part is a bit confusing}

I have sold a number of them at KOR. (BTW, they have all been winter weeks)

ULTRA Premium fixes the week and auto books it. It does not automatically fix the unit. An additional 10% (on top of the 30%) fixes the unit.

Even if the unit is not fixed, ULTRA Premium owners have the week "auto booked" (that is, unlike a ULTRA week, the owner does not have to call to confirm the reservation between months 12 and 10). The auto book feature places the reservation at the head of the line. ALL call-in reservations at 12 months queue behind them. So, they literally have first priority on unit location (aside from those that also pay to fix the unit).

In summary:

- An ULTRA owner can fix the week, but no auto book. They must confirm. As they have 60 days to do so, all ULTRA weeks will have units held back for their use during this time. It will revert to floating use if not confirmed between months 12 and 10. This explains why, for example, the 14th floating use caller can get a 2nd floor unit. The ULTRA owners have a lock.

- An ULTRA Premium owner fixes the week and is auto booked. These owners are on the 6th and 5th floors, for sure.

- An additional 10% to fix the unit. However, my observations suggest that it is not necessary to get the top 2 floors, ocean front. Only if the owner has a real unit preference.

- None of the above are "Event Weeks". Any week can be purchased as ULTRA or ULTRA Premium. Event weeks are event weeks, and can vary from resort to resort. They are specific weeks (like 51 and 52) sold at a premium price.

 

[DavidnRobin]

I have sold a number of them at KOR. (BTW, they have all been winter weeks)

ULTRA Premium fixes the week and auto books it. It does not automatically fix the unit. An additional 10% (on top of the 30%) fixes the unit.

Even if the unit is not fixed, ULTRA Premium owners have the week "auto booked" (that is, unlike a ULTRA week, the owner does not have to call to confirm the reservation between months 12 and 10). The auto book feature places the reservation at the head of the line. ALL call-in reservations at 12 months queue behind them. So, they literally have first priority on unit location (aside from those that also pay to fix the unit).

In summary:

- An ULTRA owner can fix the week, but no auto book. They must confirm. As they have 60 days to do so, all ULTRA weeks will have units held back for their use during this time. It will revert to floating use if not confirmed between months 12 and 10. This explains why, for example, the 14th caller can get a 2nd floor unit.

- An ULTRA Premium owner fixes the week and is auto booked. These owners are on the 6th and 5th floors, for sure.

- An additional 10% to fix the unit. However, my observations suggest that it is not necessary to get the top 2 floors, ocean front. Only if the owner has a real unit preference.

Thanks. Sorry to be dense, but wouldn't just fixing the week (+10%) and then fixing the villa (+10%) do the same thing? This is what SVO offered me at WPORV when I inquired about fixing the week and villa.

I just pulled up my notes from the WPORV sales inquiry. It was $55.9K for the week - and a total of $67.1K to fix the villa and week. So they were only charging me a 20% premium (not 22%). They offered to buy back my EOY for a total cost to me of $42.78K. (I think this included 80K incentive SPs and the ability to buy 5 packs of SPs). It was such a great villa location - that for $33K total I would have gone for it. Too bad they wouldn't bargain with me. They showed me the list of what they had available for fixing the week/villa (and that my villa and week was available for fix/fix) - it was limited to Hammerhead (OF sections) during non-winter weeks (mostly) - I took a photo of the list.

 

[Fredm]

Thanks. Sorry to be dense, but wouldn't just fixing the week (+10%) and then fixing the villa (+10%) do the same thing? This is what SVO offered me at WPORV when I inquired about fixing the week and villa.

I just pulled up my notes from the WPORV sales inquiry. It was $55.9K for the week - and a total of $67.1K to fix the villa and week. So they were only charging me a 20% premium (not 22%). They offered to buy back my EOY for a total cost to me of $42.78K. (I think this included 80K incentive SPs and the ability to buy 5 packs of SPs). It was such a great villa location - that for $33K total I would have gone for it. Too bad they wouldn't bargain with me. They showed me the list of what they had available for fixing the week/villa (and that my villa and week was available for fix/fix) - it was limited to Hammerhead (OF sections) during non-winter weeks (mostly) - I took a photo of the list.

No, you are not missing anything. Fixing the unit and week accomplishes the same thing at POR. I don't know if there is an added up-charge for the auto book at POR (but I think so).

But, that is not how they sold KOR. I suspect view category had something to do with it. Virtually all the KOR ULTRA Premium weeks I have sold have been ocean front.

It does not surprise me that the fix/fix at POR was limited to the hammerhead. That is where the view premium would be worth locking in, since there is otherwise no view categories. At KOR buyers paid a premium for the ocean front view, and separate premiums for the fixed week, auto book, and fixed unit

 

[DavidnRobin]

No, you are not missing anything. Fixing the unit and week accomplishes the same thing at POR. I don't know if there is an added up-charge for the auto book at POR

But, that is not how they sold KOR. I suspect view category had something to do with it. Virtually all the KOR ULTRA Premium weeks I have sold have been ocean front.

It does not surprise me that the fix/fix at POR was limited to the hammerhead. That is where the view premium would be worth locking in, since there is otherwise no view categories. At KOR buyers paid a premium for the ocean front view, and separate premiums for the fixed week, auto book, and fixed unit

Thanks for the clarification. It guess it make sense to fix/fix an OF at WKORV, but not OV/IV - anyone doing that at full freight must have the money to do so. The CCRs do not limit them to OF. The fix/fix at WPORV was definitely limited - they even gave me the buy now or it could be gone - I said drop the price by $10K and I will, but to no avail.

Interesting that WKORV Ultra Premium weeks can be sold as resale (meaning the Ultra Premium rights is transferrable by Deed). If you ever come across an Ultra Premium OFC, or a fixed week/fixed villa, that is a fair price - let me know by PM (of course).

 

[Fredm]

Interesting that WKORV Ultra Premium weeks can be sold as resale (meaning the Ultra Premium rights is transferrable by Deed).

Yes, the fixed week number and ULTRA designation is specified in the Exhibit A to the deed.

 

[jarta]

David,

Ultra Premium weeks are resold about as often as a recommendation other than buying an SDO to trade to Maui is unchallenged on TUG. lol!

WKORV is not alone in having Ultra Premium weeks.

WKORV is still jammed this week. But, much better weather. Wait until the economy recovers and try to book WKORV. Salty (think I'll drop the eom)

 

[paluamalia]

We are at wkorv north right now and the place is packed...busier than I have seen since 2006
We have 6th floor OF building 8...lots of kids at the pool
I agree it's getting harder to book winter weeks..I reserved a fri - fri for the first time for next year
FYI. They are asking $124500 for OFD in the South..$78000 OF North

 

[gregb]

Lets say you called at 12 months out, and find your view category is all booked up. Bummer. Let's also assume that some of those "reservations" filling up the category are automatic fixed week reservations. If some of those automatic reservations are not confirmed by month 10, those units should pop back up in the reservation pool at 10 months. So calling at exactly 10 months (or 10 months and a day?) could get lucky.

Of course someone could call and cancel a reservation at any time, so if you didn't get your week at 12 months out, you might want to call back a few times.

Just an interesting idea.

Greg

 

[YYJMSP]

Lets say you called at 12 months out, and find your view category is all booked up. Bummer. Let's also assume that some of those "reservations" filling up the category are automatic fixed week reservations. If some of those automatic reservations are not confirmed by month 10, those units should pop back up in the reservation pool at 10 months. So calling at exactly 10 months (or 10 months and a day?) could get lucky.

Of course someone could call and cancel a reservation at any time, so if you didn't get your week at 12 months out, you might want to call back a few times.

Just an interesting idea.

Greg

That's why the wait-list is a nice feature of 4 Star and 5 Star Elite. Call at 12 months, and if it's not available, put yourself on the wait-list. When a unit comes up that matches your request, you are offered the unit and have 24hrs to take them up on the availability. We've taken advantage of this a few times vs. calling in repeatedly to see if availability has changed.

I assume that if there are more people on the wait-list, they go through them one by one until some takes it.

I assume that the wait-list has priority over call-ins, so that may be yet another situation where units are held back out of inventory at a specific point in time. I assume that once they've gone through the list, it becomes available to the general public.

Lots of assumptions on how the wait-list is implemented...

 

[DeniseM]

If some of those automatic reservations are not confirmed by month 10, those units should pop back up in the reservation pool at 10 months. So calling at exactly 10 months (or 10 months and a day?) could get lucky.

I don't think the ownerships we are discussing have to be confirmed at 10 mos. I think they are like true fixed weeks.

 

[Fredm]

I don't think the ownerships we are discussing have to be confirmed at 10 mos. I think they are like true fixed weeks.

Denise, ULTRA owners at KOR must confirm between months 12 and 10. ULTRA Premium owners do not.

This is more trivia than anything else. There are not that many. Enough to explain the ocean-front reservation call-in question, but as a practical matter ocean front owners who paid the ULTRA costs are going to either occupy it, or rent it.
An oddball may relinquish for StarPoints, but guess who gets the unit then?

Although the situation Greg poses is theoretically possible, I don't think it will be a productive strategy. It can't hurt to try, but lightening would have to strike.

 

[DavidnRobin]

We are at wkorv north right now and the place is packed...busier than I have seen since 2006
We have 6th floor OF building 8...lots of kids at the pool
I agree it's getting harder to book winter weeks..I reserved a fri - fri for the first time for next year
FYI. They are asking $124500 for OFD in the South..$78000 OF North

btw - there is no Fri checkin for WKORV

I'll sale mine to them for 1/2 of that...