Will Marriott penalize it's direct buyers

[PerryM]

Who lost what?

www.redweek.com , www.myresortnetwork.com ,craigslist, TUG, and many other sites are places where you can buy or rent from owners. no matter what location or developer you are looking for, you will find them for sale or rent here.

I never said purchase a Horizons for $50,000. I said if you Purchase a Marriott for $25,000 you have taken $25,000 out of your assets. If you instead put that $25,000 in the bank at a meager 5% rate of return, you will have over $50,000 cash in 20 years versus a timeshare you hope will be worth $12,000. If you rent for the same price as MF's (or close) for the next 20 years you will be almost identical on annual vacation costs, but you will have $50,000 cash in the bank versus a week you hope you can sell for $12,000. That is $38,000 in lost assets with no benefit other than points being missed. You would still have stayed at Marriott's for 2 decades, but you would have no purchase outlay and no assessments. That is why owning timeshares is only a good deal if you buy them at a price close to what you can sell them for, and if the MF's are A LOT LOWER than the price you can rent at the same resort for IMO.

I hope that the Hurricane doesn't cause you or yours any problems.

It seems that every time the “Lost opportunity cost” theory is dredged up comparing buying a timeshare to keeping the money in the bank the OTHER “Lost opportunity cost” is left out. This is an oversight which skews the analysis.

Owning a timeshare MUST be cheaper than renting the same exact unit. That extra cost the renter pays is “Lost Opportunity cost” to the guy keeping the money in the bank and making a hot 5% minus Uncle Sam’s cut.

By definition the “Lost Opportunity” of that 5% in the bank MUST be much smaller than the “Lost Opportunity” they paid extra in rent. If not, why on earth buy a timeshare?

Lost Opportunity cost is a red herring when debating timeshare ownership - by definition!

 

[Latravel]

I have to comment that it is not true that if people knew about Tug, they would only buy resale. My husband and I read Tug for over a year before we bought our first Marriott week and we still bought directly from Marriott, and we continue to do so. There goes that theory!

 

[PerryM]

I have to comment that it is not true that if people knew about Tug, they would only buy resale. My husband and I read Tug for over a year before we bought our first Marriott week and we still bought directly from Marriott, and we continue to do so. There goes that theory!

So if you wanted the top floor at the new Marriott Towers in Maui you'd buy resale?

There are plenty of reasons to buy from the developer - a special location or week or benefits easily justify buying from a developer.

It's just simple math - account for the difference between resale price (if it even exists) and developer price and if that difference is worth the goodies you get then buy direct from the developer; else buy resale.

But there is NO hard and fast rule to "Always buy resale"; just dogma.

 

[Latravel]

My point exactly, there is no hard fast rule to buy only resale. In fact, I believe there is some value that a direct purchase doesn't have that "R" restriction next to it's number in the Marriott system. There's value that when you hand it down to your children, there will be no restrictions to ownership. Who knows what other restrictions will be placed on resales in the future? Reading Tug for over a year, and doing my own research, made me convinced to purchase direct.

 

[Pit]

Owning a timeshare MUST be cheaper than renting the same exact unit.

Why do you say that? Lots of units can be rented for the cost of maint fees, or less (not to mention the inital cash outlay the owner made). Exchanging is even cheaper.

 

[PerryM]

Why do you say that? Lots of units can be rented for the cost of maint fees, or less (not to mention the inital cash outlay the owner made). Exchanging is even cheaper.

Part of your due diligence is just a simple test "Is the cost to buy, use, and sell this timeshare for 10 vacations cheaper than 10 rentals from the same resort?"

If timeshare ownership costs more than renting the same exact unit from the resort then its crazy to buy the timeshare.

EVERY one of the 50++ sales tours I've been on start out with renting compared to owning. They leave out key parts, like interest charges on loans, and resale prices but they all seem to bring up this simple test.

P.S.
When I say renting I'm referring what the developer or resort charges not what you might get one year on RedWeek. If you want to discount the developer's rate by 20%, for instance, go right ahead.

This is a great way to cut the sales tour short of the 90 minutes and get your free gift by the way.

 

[KathyPet]

In addition to all the aforementioned reasons why someone would choose to sell there is still another and that is "change in vacation time styles". We own 3 Marriott weeks all bought direct. We are currently waiting for closing to occur on the sale of our Barony Beach. Why? In the last few years we have discovered the joy of foreign travel and cruising. With our Marriott reward points we have enjoyed trips to Italy (two weeks), England (two weeks) and Ireland (1 week) in addition we have taken two 14 day cruises (Baltic and Meditteranean). We are finding it more difficult to "use" our three weeks during the years that we cannot trade for MR points. This is my chance to say how happy I am that we bought direct and can trade for points. I don't want the hassle of renting our unused weeks and I simply don't find reasons to use our 2 Hilton Heads and our MMC on a regular basis so we are selling one. I do not like being locked into a certain vacation lifestyle. I want to travel and see major cities in the world where there are no timeshares to trade to. If you want to return to the same place year after year than that's fine too but not everyone wants to do that once they are "child free".

 

[Pit]

If timeshare ownership costs more than renting the same exact unit from the resort then its crazy to buy the timeshare.

Ok. Well, I would go further and say that if ownership costs more than renting the same unit from owners, then its crazy to buy. One needs to compare all their options. No reason to limit yourself to resort rentals.

 

[PerryM]

Ok. Well, I would go further and say that if ownership costs more than renting the same unit from owners, then its crazy to buy. One needs to compare all their options. No reason to limit yourself to resort rentals.

TRUE!

You set your own criteria for your family's needs. You can set Motel 6 rates or The Plaza rates - whatever level of comfort you want.

 

[tombo]

Perry you seem to avoid the fact that most any week at most any Marriott resort can be rented at close to the cost of MF's, or even lower. You act like people are setlling for a less quality resort, they are renting Marriott weeks for equal to or less than the owner's pay in MF's. Check out the rental rates for Marriott's on redweek.com and myresortnetwork.com. Motel 6 for a week costs more than a week at a Marriott resort when you look at some of the prices owners are renting their Marriotts for. Apparently you are substituting Motel 6 quality for Marriott prices.

 

[PerryM]

Perry you seem to avoid the fact that most any week at most any Marriott resort can be rented at close to the cost of MF's, or even lower. You act like people are setlling for a less quality resort, they are renting Marriott weeks for equal to or less than the owner's pay in MF's. Check out the rental rates for Marriott's on redweek.com and myresortnetwork.com. Motel 6 for a week costs more than a week at a Marriott resort when you look at some of the prices owners are renting their Marriotts for. Apparently you are substituting Motel 6 quality for Marriott prices.

I didn't mean to convey that - if you can find rental rates from RedWeek for just the MF then there is very little reason to by a timeshare unless you want the goodies the developer throws in or a hot week or a specific location.

A case can be made for a Timeshare Bubble - something I've been saying for 3+ years now. When prices don't go up and down with the market that represents a phony market. Timeshares NEVER go down to my knowledge.

The reason I own timeshares is the simple fact that I can leverage the money invested and get out much more than renting. Others use timeshares differently and a case can be made that they are no longer competitive for vacation ownership.

About 50% of my timeshare ownership goes into renting units for cash and using that cash for better vacations. I love folks who would rather rent than own....

 

[tombo]

I rent a lot of my weeks too, but this year I had to bank a lot of weeks that didn't rent. Any resort I own at that won't rent for more than MF's is for sale. I have many weeks that I haven't considered selling for years since the rental income was good. This year I had to lower my asking rental price on most of my weeks, and some didn't rent at all. I have weeks for sale right now that I never thought about selling before. Like I said earlier, if you can't rent a week for a lot more than MF's, why own? I do practice what I preach.

 

[JimIg23]

I rent a lot of my weeks too, but this year I had to bank a lot of weeks that didn't rent. Any resort I own at that won't rent for more than MF's is for sale. I have many weeks that I haven't considered selling for years since the rental income was good. This year I had to lower my asking rental price on most of my weeks, and some didn't rent at all. I have weeks for sale right now that I never thought about selling before. Like I said earlier, if you can't rent a week for a lot more than MF's, why own? I do practice what I preach.

Why own? Of many reasons, one is splitting your week and trading up. I just split and traded my MHZ for 2 weeks in June 2009 at Cypress Harbor and Ocean Point. Based on some of the rentals out there, that would have cost me about $2,900 to rent. I bought an EOY resale for $3,600 (I think...I am becoming forgetful) With the II fees and next years MF's it comes to about 4,500. To me, I already recouped alot of my money in one year.

 

[tombo]

August asking prices for Marriott Cypress harbor from $950 to $1150 currently on red week for 7 days in 2 bed room 2 bath:

08/19/08 - 12/22/08 7 $950 ($136/nt) Varies 2/ 2 8 View
08/19/08 - 12/31/09 7 $1,150 ($164/nt) - 2/ 2 8 View
07/05/08 - 07/12/08 7 $950 ($136/nt) Varies 2/ 2 8 Rented
08/23/08 - 08/30/08 7 $1,100 ($157/nt) - 2/ 2 8 View
08/24/08 - 08/31/08 7 $994 ($142/nt) Varies 2/ 2 6 View
08/25/08 - 09/01/08 7 $650 ($93/nt) Varies 2/ 2 6 View

Marriott ocean Point currently rentals on Red week:

Dates Nts Price Unit View Bd/ Ba Occ
08/17/08 - 08/24/08 7 $700 ($100/nt) Ocean view 2/ 2 8 Rented
NEW! 08/19/08 - 12/14/08 7 $895 ($128/nt) Varies 2/ 2 8 View
08/19/08 - 08/23/08 7 $999 ($143/nt) Ocean view 2/ 2 8 View
08/19/08 - 08/22/08 7 $800 ($114/nt) Varies 2/ 2 8 View
08/15/08 - 08/22/08 7 $500 ($71/nt) Varies 1/ 1 4 Rente

The one bed room is $500. If you pay $500 for one week in a one bed room, and $650 for a week in a 2 bed room 2 bath, you will have $1150 for 2 weeks with no investment, no assessments, and no obligation to stay at a Marriot next year. If your MF's are $1000 or more for one week you own, I still say why own? This is renting 2 weeks, one in a one bed room one bath, and another week in a 2 bed room 2 bath for $1150 total without having to invest $25,000 or more to own.

 

[JimIg23]

August asking prices for Marriott Cypress harbor from $950 to $1150 currently on red week for 7 days in 2 bed room 2 bath:

08/19/08 - 12/22/08 7 $950 ($136/nt) Varies 2/ 2 8 View
08/19/08 - 12/31/09 7 $1,150 ($164/nt) - 2/ 2 8 View
07/05/08 - 07/12/08 7 $950 ($136/nt) Varies 2/ 2 8 Rented
08/23/08 - 08/30/08 7 $1,100 ($157/nt) - 2/ 2 8 View
08/24/08 - 08/31/08 7 $994 ($142/nt) Varies 2/ 2 6 View
08/25/08 - 09/01/08 7 $650 ($93/nt) Varies 2/ 2 6 View

Marriott ocean Point currently rentals on Red week:

Dates Nts Price Unit View Bd/ Ba Occ
08/17/08 - 08/24/08 7 $700 ($100/nt) Ocean view 2/ 2 8 Rented
NEW! 08/19/08 - 12/14/08 7 $895 ($128/nt) Varies 2/ 2 8 View
08/19/08 - 08/23/08 7 $999 ($143/nt) Ocean view 2/ 2 8 View
08/19/08 - 08/22/08 7 $800 ($114/nt) Varies 2/ 2 8 View
08/15/08 - 08/22/08 7 $500 ($71/nt) Varies 1/ 1 4 Rente

The one bed room is $500. If you pay $500 for one week in a one bed room, and $650 for a week in a 2 bed room 2 bath, you will have $1150 for 2 weeks with no investment, no assessments, and no obligation to stay at a Marriott next year. If your MF's are $1000 or more for one week you own, I still say why own? This is renting 2 weeks, one in a one bed room one bath, and another week in a 2 bed room 2 bath for $1150 total without having to invest $25,000 or more to own.

The prices you are quoting are for rentals within 30 days, and during a timeframe (Aug) where Orlando is very hot, humid and rains everyday. With planning with schools, preferred travel time, trying to get the best airfare for 5 people, etc, we don't have the luxury to wait last minute to rent. I was looking at 2009 prices in prime vacation season (non August) for families with kids, which are always going to be more.

Depending on a person's specific circumstances (financial status, family make up, where/when you want to travel, etc) renting could be better, but so can buying. I bought Marriott, but I rent Wyndham for specific trips (because of driving location and lengths of stay) because when I did the math and weighed it against our family needs, that worked for me.