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Will Marriott penalize it's direct buyers

cp73

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I got tired of reading that other thread. But here are a few more thoughts. If Marriott was to change the system and hurt resale buyers I would never buy another resale timeshare. In fact, I, like a lot of other Marriott resale owners, would never buy a timeshare direct from Marriott either because we feel they are way over priced. So that means I wouldn't be a timeshare owner.

So if they changed the system and there were no resale buyers at lower prices then who would be buying all the resales? I guess the resale prices on the open market would really drop and the only buyers would be those that didn't care about trading. In the end it would hurt Marriott's resale value tremendously.
In fact it would probably hurt prior buyers who purchased direct from Marriott greater than those that didn't purchase direct. Now isn't that ironic?

I can't see them doing that. Its all salesman's BS to make a sale. Don't believe it for a second.
 

timeos2

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Except that you assume level headed thinking at the top to see the ramifications. History says that isn't in large supply. Wyndham virtually tanked resale value on one of the great mini-systems in all of timeshare by shortsighted and punitive treatment of resale buyers so it nearly makes a retail buyer a fool in that system. 90%+ more for a few perks? How they think they can maintain that type of spread and loss for retail buyers is a complete mystery.

Others are in the line. Diamond (Sunterra) with their undefined and convoluted Club points. No one seems to know for sure what you can resell. Best to hang on to your deeded week there if you want to be sure. Any resort/system that tries to keep an artificial hold on what it has sold after it belongs to the buyer - that includes ROFR - hurts the whole system of reasonable resales. It may be damaged beyond repair after all this time and all the unwanted inventory already out there. Buy resale, buy what you like and don't fall for the pricey retail "upgrades" that are only upgrading sales weasels bank accounts and draining yours.

Marriott is no different.
 

taffy19

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I got tired of reading that other thread. But here are a few more thoughts. If Marriott was to change the system and hurt resale buyers I would never buy another resale timeshare. In fact, I, like a lot of other Marriott resale owners, would never buy a timeshare direct from Marriott either because we feel they are way over priced. So that means I wouldn't be a timeshare owner.

So if they changed the system and there were no resale buyers at lower prices then who would be buying all the resales? I guess the resale prices on the open market would really drop and the only buyers would be those that didn't care about trading. In the end it would hurt Marriott's resale value tremendously.
In fact it would probably hurt prior buyers who purchased direct from Marriott greater than those that didn't purchase direct. Now isn't that ironic?

I can't see them doing that. Its all salesman's BS to make a sale. Don't believe it for a second.
I agree with John. All developers seem to get too greedy today and are killing the re-sale market not only for re-sale buyers but for their own customers too. Yes, we paid too much but if we (dummies) :eek: wouldn't buy, there would be no re-sale market for people as smart as you, Chris. Don't forget that. ;)

It will backfire one day when people see no value in buying a timeshare any longer. Renting will be a better option as you are not dealing with the ever increasing maintenance fees and all the other garbage fees too that they can think of. They all do it.

The Marriott used to be one of the best and most consumer friendly but not anymore. I still hope they will come to their senses before it is too late and stop the rumor mill by their sales staff right now so we will stop speculating too. It's all rumors now as nobody really knows what will happen.
 

cp73

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Yes, we paid too much but if we (dummies) :eek: wouldn't buy, there would be no re-sale market for people as smart as you, Chris. Don't forget that. ;)
Emmy,

I agree with you 100% on that. Without customers buying direct the future of Marriott building and developing new timeshares would end. None of us want that to happen. Without Tug I never would have purchased resale.
 

jlee2070

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TUG probably accounts for less than 10% of the people who purchase TS'. The huge majority of people out there do not know there is a secondary market and buy on impulse. So I would presume the sales of Marriott would not suffer too much with these theoretical changes. Marriott's marketing will no doubt spin this to be a positive for its potential buyers. Heck, the way Wyndham resales drop, you would think nobody would be buying new from them ever but...
 

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I got tired of reading that other thread.
:rolleyes:

There's already a topic on this. "I got tired of reading the other thread" is not a reason to create a new thread rehashing the same old stuff all over again.

-David
 
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m61376

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While I understand that resale buyers only make up less than 10% of the market, there are two things that warrant attention-: as resorts age, more and more will be sold (hence- more resale owners) and just because less than 10% of owners are resale owners does not mean that over 90% are oblivious to the resale market.

It is likely that over the next number of years more and more buyers, regardless of how they buy, will at least be aware of a resale market and, as prices of new developments are ever-escalating, the concept of retained value, at least to some degree, will be important. Akin to buying a car, people are willing to accept loss of value for enjoyment of use, but want to feel that there is some retained value. Many direct purchasers are aware of a resale market (for example- you can't go to Hawaii without seeing ads in every tourist throw-away magazine but the developers are certainly selling) but are convinced that the developer's product is somehow better, or are just afraid of buying on the resale market, or just like the ease of buying directly. If those same potential buyers see resale ads with prices really tanked they might not line up so fast to purchase, so it is in Marriott's best interest to sustain the resale market.

I know other's disagree, but personally I think their ROFR is at least, in part, intended to sustain that market because it is in their best interest, and I can't see them doing anything that would devalue ownership because it would hurt future sales of new resorts. Of course, that's just my 2 cents, and may be worth just that :)
 

kjd

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There is an interesting dichotomy in the timeshate marketplace. On the one hand Marriott and others are building new TS units to meet the demand of new buyers. On the other hand, there is a huge supply of resale TS that often appear on EBay and other places at very low prices.

In comparison, the market for new TS construction is pretty robust. The reason is marketing. Timeshare companies, especially Marriott, are very adept at marketing their product. With resale, there is virtually no effective marketing to speak of.

Wouldn't Marriott want it that way? The can run a resale cherry-picking operation at sold out projects with ROFR while at the same time not competing with their new products. If you want to sell your Marriott TS you might want to do it through Marriott. The 40% marketing fee might be a good valuie for any Marriott owner wishing to sell.
 

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Ah, not exactly. A few hundred weeks for sale would be a blip on the map considering there are millions of weeks sold.


There is an interesting dichotomy in the timeshate marketplace. On the one hand Marriott and others are building new TS units to meet the demand of new buyers. On the other hand, there is a huge supply of resale TS that often appear on EBay and other places at very low prices.
 

Beverley

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Emmy,

I agree with you 100% on that. Without customers buying direct the future of Marriott building and developing new timeshares would end. None of us want that to happen. Without Tug I never would have purchased resale.
Let us not forget that Marriott is a big resale seller as well as a new property developer. At the moment the sales team on HHI sells properties that are in other places and resales on HHI. I do not think Marriott will tank their resale market all together, at least not on purpose ... :doh:

I agree the peops getting the best prices for resales are tuggers buying Marriott properties that do not have right of first refusal or that somehow get missed in the ROFR screening. Just another good case for buying what you want where you want it at a time when you can travel. :clap:

Just MHO ... :cool:

Beverley
 

PerryM

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Shooting oneself in the foot hurts....

I got tired of reading that other thread. But here are a few more thoughts. If Marriott was to change the system and hurt resale buyers I would never buy another resale timeshare. In fact, I, like a lot of other Marriott resale owners, would never buy a timeshare direct from Marriott either because we feel they are way over priced. So that means I wouldn't be a timeshare owner.

So if they changed the system and there were no resale buyers at lower prices then who would be buying all the resales? I guess the resale prices on the open market would really drop and the only buyers would be those that didn't care about trading. In the end it would hurt Marriott's resale value tremendously.
In fact it would probably hurt prior buyers who purchased direct from Marriott greater than those that didn't purchase direct. Now isn't that ironic?

I can't see them doing that. Its all salesman's BS to make a sale. Don't believe it for a second.

Let’s say Marriott sells a Platinum ski week at Summit Watch for $45k – Marriott doesn’t haggle – if you want take their sales tour and want a Platinum week at SW then it will cost you $45k – period. At least direct from Marriott with the MRPs thrown in.

SW long ago sold out and you are buying a 15 year old resort that has a MF of $1,000 a year and has been remodeled many times.

Ok, you want a bargain so you see a Platinum SW on eBay with a “Buy it Now” of $10k – you want to buy it so bad you can’t sleep at night.

Question – will you click that “Buy it Now” button on eBay? The answer is, of course, NO since Marriott will gladly step in and yank the sale from you.

Now what? You contact the seller and inform him/her that Marriott has a ROFR and will take the sale from anyone who offers less than 60% of the current sales price of $45k or $27k. You up convince the seller to change the Buy it Now price to $25k and snap up the sale.

You then ask the seller to submit the transaction to the ROFR department at Marriott and sweat bullets for a week – then the good news – Marriott declined to snap it up. Woo Hoo.

This is exactly how a developer who is actively involved in the resale of their product acts and causes the resale prices to float to a higher level than if the developer ignores resales.

Marriott would have to do two stupid things to cause the resale market to implode:

1) Punish resales by excluding them from an internal exchange program
2) Stop exercising the ROFR or lower it to such a low point as to cause a crash of resales and then step in when resales are 15% of current sales

I don’t see Marriott doing either – resales account for just 7% of all timeshares sales in a year – why shoot themselves in the foot?

Again, I don’t think Marriott is nuts and isn’t about ready to join Wyndham in watching their customers die a horrible death in the resale market. Marriott is just too smart for this.

If anything Marriott will allow new resale owners to join in any new developer programs for an "upgrade fee" which could be $5k or whatever Marriott feels it wants to make on that resale that they did not participate in. Marriott knows how to make money; and killing your customer just isn't the way to do that.


Additional thought – just what proof do we have that the Platinum ski week at SW is really worth $45k? We have NO proof at all. ALL timeshare resales are based upon the prevailing developer’s price and if the developer is no longer selling the unit then resales are based upon NOTHING – zip. The next price the resale market picks is what the weakest seller is willing to unload their unit for – and that is probably $1 on eBay.

As you see a developer who sees resale timeshares as a revenue generator keeps the dream alive. I would not lose a second of sleep worrying about Marriott shooting itself in the foot.
 
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JimIg23

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At the end of the day, I just don't know why someone would buy a timeshare that will lose 95% of its value in 10 minutes. When I started looking, I only really considered Marriott and Disney, both of which at least there is some ability to recapture some of your investment. If the right deal came from Marriott, I would buy direct, because getting 50-60% of your initial investment in a TS to me is reasonable, because of the value you get over the years, especially if the upfront points balance the potential loss. (I am still thinking about the new Orlando one). But 5% back, I cant see that.

Will Marriott's sales bottom out if they kill the resale market? Does 90% of their customers even ask about resale values? I don't know, I guess one would have to look at the other TS that resales sell at 5% to see if they are still making a lot of money....
 

timeos2

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Never buy high - thats the true secret

At the end of the day, I just don't know why someone would buy a timeshare that will lose 95% of its value in 10 minutes. When I started looking, I only really considered Marriott and Disney, both of which at least there is some ability to recapture some of your investment. If the right deal came from Marriott, I would buy direct, because getting 50-60% of your initial investment in a TS to me is reasonable, because of the value you get over the years, especially if the upfront points balance the potential loss. (I am still thinking about the new Orlando one). But 5% back, I cant see that.

Will Marriott's sales bottom out if they kill the resale market? Does 90% of their customers even ask about resale values? I don't know, I guess one would have to look at the other TS that resales sell at 5% to see if they are still making a lot of money....
You SHOULDN'T buy a timeshare that loses 95% of its value on day 7 or 10. THAT's why you buy resale at the TRUE value. Buy at $5 and even if you "lost" 20% you sell for $4. Buy at retail and you lost tens of thousands. There are ZERO guarantees that Marriott or any other timeshare/system (including DVC) will hold any resale value close to retail. In fact, with DVC, its guaranteed to be zero at some point. Marriott, DVC, Hilton and others have no lock on the quality or price of timeshares and buying them is no guarantee of anything except most likely a great vacation stay. Buy a timeshare resort anywhere you like, that is well maintianed and reasonably operated at the true market value - not trumped up retail - and you can have the best of all worlds. Low buy in, reasonable fees, great use, should be good trades if desired and, when you're done, you too sell it for market price. No one gets the 90% loss (except that first poor owner that bought directly from the developer). If you MUST be that person depending on Marriott or anyone else to protect my purchase price is not a chance I'd take when there are guaranteed ways to accomplish the desired goal of low cost, luxury vacactions using timeshare.
 

AwayWeGo

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[triennial - points]
Exactly Right . . .

There's already a topic on this. "I got tired of reading the other thread" is not a reason to create a new thread rehashing the same old stuff all over again.
. . . so maybe we can petition the Grand Pro to merge the topics.

That happens all the time anyway, so why not this time in response to popular demand ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

PerryM

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My new 1995 Camry station wagon cost me $18k and is now worth $2k – I got screwed! Toyota knew that back in Dec of 1994 when I bought our wagon that it cost them about $10k to build and evil car dealerships make big bucks selling them for $18k.

Since 93% of all timeshares are bought direct from the developer you would think those folks are smarter than the 7% of us who buy resale – how dumb are we?

I can rattle off many reasons why buying from the developer is superior to buying resale – the reasons are well known here. This entire decision process boils down to 2 reasons to buy developer:

1) Don’t know any better

2) The goodies/rights/financing thrown in by the developer make the premium over resales worth it


Granted, the 93% of the sales are in category #1 but these folks do just fine – hold that timeshare 20 years and enjoy what they have.

Reason #2 takes a lot of a) knowledge, b) guts, and c) cash (no financing) and thus only 7% of us do it.

I’ve bought 5 Marriotts direct from Marriott, used them 5 years and sold them for a slight profit/BE and got 5 years of usage, exchanges, rentals, and MRPs.

It’s when I learned that I could get to the SAME exact resorts and weeks with a $5,500 Gold Summit Watch and WorldMark credits that cost 1/10 the cost that I sold the 5 Marriotts.

If you do a lot of traveling/vacationing and want to use MRPs to pay for the vacations then Marriott has many deals which easily justify MRP’s over cash.

Now there are developers, like Wyndham and WorldMark where buying from the developer makes zero sense – the premium paid versus resales just can’t be justified. In both cases the numbskull developers go out of their way to make resales cheaper and cheaper each year - thanks developers. Luckily in the case for Marriott it’s easy to justify that difference in many cases.

It’s when you incorporate II into this mixture that the reason to buy Marriott direct is very very hard to justify. I sold those 5 Marriotts because I started to exchange usage more than to actually use them. If that’s your case then it takes a lot of justifying to buy developer. If a new internal exchange program makes this hard to do they I'll buy Marriott direct again; I only have $5,500 tied up in Marriott now versus $150k+ before.
 

tombo

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At the end of the day, I just don't know why someone would buy a timeshare that will lose 95% of its value in 10 minutes. When I started looking, I only really considered Marriott and Disney, both of which at least there is some ability to recapture some of your investment. If the right deal came from Marriott, I would buy direct, because getting 50-60% of your initial investment in a TS to me is reasonable, because of the value you get over the years, especially if the upfront points balance the potential loss. (I am still thinking about the new Orlando one). But 5% back, I cant see that.

Will Marriott's sales bottom out if they kill the resale market? Does 90% of their customers even ask about resale values? I don't know, I guess one would have to look at the other TS that resales sell at 5% to see if they are still making a lot of money....
90% of Marriott's customers don't know there is a resale market or they wouldn't buy retail. If someone told you that you could buy the identical thing they are selling you for $10,000 or more less on e-bay, what per cent of Marriott buyers would still buy retail? If the buyers ask about resale they are told by the Marriott salesman that this week will increase in value through the years as it has at many of their sold out resorts. We know it is a lie but they still tell it almost every time.

Why would anyone buy direct knowing that at best you can hope to take a 40% to 50% loss if you sell it when you can buy resale and take little or no loss when you sell? The resale Marriott week at 50% or less of the retail price lets you stay in the same resorts and you are an owner just like the guy who paid 2 times as much minus a couple of minor perks. There are many Marriott weeks for sale every day on e-bay, and you can keep buying them cheap until Marriott has enough inventory and they actually let you own one. They are ROFR'ing a lot less now and at lower prices so it is a good time to buy if you have to have Marriott.

This is a good time to buy resale unless they do change the reservation window for resales to 6 months versus 12 months for retail. If they do that, then even your resale purchase could lose 50% or more of it's value. Of course that is still better than buying direct and having it lose 75% of it's value, since what you will be selling becomes a resale week too as soon as you put it up for sale.
 

taffy19

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At the end of the day, I just don't know why someone would buy a timeshare that will lose 95% of its value in 10 minutes. When I started looking, I only really considered Marriott and Disney, both of which at least there is some ability to recapture some of your investment. If the right deal came from Marriott, I would buy direct, because getting 50-60% of your initial investment in a TS to me is reasonable, because of the value you get over the years, especially if the upfront points balance the potential loss. (I am still thinking about the new Orlando one). But 5% back, I cant see that.

Will Marriott's sales bottom out if they kill the resale market? Does 90% of their customers even ask about resale values? I don't know, I guess one would have to look at the other TS that resales sell at 5% to see if they are still making a lot of money....
I hope they are smarter than the rest and protect their buyer's interest rather than trashing it. If you own a Marriott in platinum season at a highly demanded resort, you may qualify to upgrade to one of their newest resorts and you may even be offered more than what you paid originally.

We inquired twice about this in Kauai and Maui. There is a certain dollar amount that you have to pay them for the upgrade. The first time we inquired in Kauai, I believe it was $16,000 which was close to what we paid and the second time, I believe it was $19,000 so it had gone up in a few years and I don't know what it is today.

Since we owned our original timeshare quite a few years, we got quite a bit more than we paid for it originally so we sealed the deal after thinking it over for at least three or four days! I have to give them credit for that as we didn't lose any money with our original timeshare but we didn't really want to sell it either because we loved the resort but it was the reservation problem that made us go ahead with it. Also, our sales lady was never pushy and always ready to see us again while she never expected to make this sale.

I wonder how many other timeshare developers would let you do this? I doubt if any. I was still contemplating to buy a re-sale again at the MDSV-I at a ridiculous low price but have decided against it because of our age and I still have to deal with difficult reservations for a single week owner as fixed weeks do not count.

Renting may be the best solution for us and for many other people too in the future if timesharing has so many hurdlles and maintenance fees are going up faster than the cost of living.
 

kjd

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I have to agree with Perry on several items. One: MRP's are easily justified with several examples over a cash transaction. You can only get worthwhile amounts of points if you buy direct. (Other than nominal purchases of points or with the Marriott credit card) Points are only valuable if you use them appropriately.

Two: You're buying a depreciating asset like Perry's car. You get your value during its' useful life and then it's worth next to nothing. That's why it makes sense to buy where you are going to spend a lot of vacation time. I.I. is a secondary consideration and not a reason for purchasing direct.

Three: The rumored changes to the internal reservations and possible new exchange system rules will make a direct purchase more attractive. However, it has the potential of wrecking havoc upon the Marriott resale market.

Another post suggested renting as an alternative to paying high maintanence fees. The problem with that is that every owner who wishes to rent is trying to cover their MF. Some of the off season rentals through I.I. are probably less than a MF but in general everything is going up in price including hotel room rates. It's hard to see how you could save a lot of money by renting in-season at resort locations. Most people who want to save money probably won't go anywhere.
 

tombo

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It is very easy to save money renting over owning. If you save $25000 by not purchasing a week, then you would have over $50,000 in cash including money earned at 5% interest in 20 years. That isn't counting the interest you would spend if you were crazy enough to finance it. If you can rent most years close to or even below what the MF's would cost you as an owner (which you can do often), then you are way ahead being a renter and you don't have to worry about assessments or ever rising MF's. Pick any Marriott resort, go to redweek.com and see how many weeks there are for rent right around the cost of MF's. Let's say you want a really popular resort one year at a popular time and you have to pay $500 more than MF's, you are still ahead $49,500.

For example, here is a list of the prices of weekly rentals currently available at Marriott Horizons resort in Orlando on Redweek:

Dates Nts Price Unit View Bd/ Ba Occ
NEW! 08/17/08 - 08/22/08 7 $668 ($95/nt) Varies 2/ 2 8 View
NEW! 08/17/08 - 08/24/08 7 $700 ($100/nt) Varies 3/ 3 12 View
08/17/08 - 12/21/08 7 $1,000 ($143/nt) Varies 2/ 2 8 View
08/17/08 - 12/31/09 7 $1,150 ($164/nt) - 2/ 2 8 View
08/17/08 - 08/23/08 7 $900 ($129/nt) Varies 2/ 2 8 View
08/30/08 - 09/06/08 7 $950 ($136/nt) - 2/ 2 8 View
09/06/08 - 09/13/08 7 $775 ($111/nt) Varies 2/ 2 8 Rented

Labor day week in a 2 bed room 2 bath is only $950 for the week. Most of the above rentals prices are for less than the current MF's, you have absolutelly no expense to buy in, and you have no loss to get out. Many of these owners trying to rent their weeks will end up paying the MF, not receiving any rent money from any renter (rentals are way down), and unable to use their week themselves. If you are a renter and can't go you aren't out a penny. If you are an owner and can't go you are out your annual MF's and you don't have your money you spent to become an owner in the bank earning interest. That is a double hit to the old pocketbook.

Unless you own at a place that has MF's that are a lot less than the cost of renting rent a week from an owner, why be an owner?
 
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Charlie D.

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Well, thanks a lot cp73!! Now we have two threads with the same people debating the same ole thing with the same ole song and dance!!
 

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The biggest problem in the timesharing industry is the sales and marketing model for resort developers. Luring in customers and closing them hard results in high profits at the expense of owners. ROFR and VIP programs artificially prop up prices. But, timesharing cannot grow to a significant percentage of the population until resale prices and developer prices converge to a much smaller differential.

The way it will work is that cost of sales and marketing will continue to increase until the percentage is just too high to continue. Then, something else will be done. When it does, that is when we will have the healthiest market. In it's current state, there will always be huge winners and huge losers. If you hang around TUG, you can be a huge winner.
 

kjd

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I get the point of the rental example given of Marriott Horizons in Orlando in what is called a red week. However, you would have to be out of your mind to purchase week for $50,000 at the Orlando Horizons. Throwing in a 5%"lost opportunity" cost really stretches things. Most rentals in prime time at prime Marriott locations are listed at least at the cost of the MF or most likely higher.

You are missing the point about ownership. Ownership is greater than a simple dollars and cents arguement. Some people are bean counters and some are not. Ownership to many means greater control. That's the discussion that takes place on TUG. Almost all of the TUG discussions are about how to best use your ownership rights. Whether it's resale or direct purchase owners. It doesn't mattter.

Gotta go now to board up for the hurricane.
 

jerseyfinn

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Resorts Owned
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. . . You are missing the point about ownership. Ownership is greater than a simple dollars and cents arguement. Some people are bean counters and some are not. Ownership to many means greater control. That's the discussion that takes place on TUG. Almost all of the TUG discussions are about how to best use your ownership rights. Whether it's resale or direct purchase owners. It doesn't mattter.
Great words of wisdom KJD. Forget the actuaries, lost opportunity costs, and all of the other stuff. Timeshare is a discretionary purchase for those who place great personal value on destination travel.

TUG is here to demonstrate that there's lots of ways to do TS and live to tell about it ( hopefully with a big smile on your face when you travel with family & friends creating priceless memories of the non-Master Card kind ;) )

Barry
 

tombo

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I get the point of the rental example given of Marriott Horizons in Orlando in what is called a red week. However, you would have to be out of your mind to purchase week for $50,000 at the Orlando Horizons. Throwing in a 5%"lost opportunity" cost really stretches things. Most rentals in prime time at prime Marriott locations are listed at least at the cost of the MF or most likely higher.

You are missing the point about ownership. Ownership is greater than a simple dollars and cents arguement. Some people are bean counters and some are not. Ownership to many means greater control. That's the discussion that takes place on TUG. Almost all of the TUG discussions are about how to best use your ownership rights. Whether it's resale or direct purchase owners. It doesn't mattter.

Gotta go now to board up for the hurricane.
www.redweek.com , www.myresortnetwork.com ,craigslist, TUG, and many other sites are places where you can buy or rent from owners. no matter what location or developer you are looking for, you will find them for sale or rent here.

I never said purchase a Horizons for $50,000. I said if you Purchase a Marriott for $25,000 you have taken $25,000 out of your assets. If you instead put that $25,000 in the bank at a meager 5% rate of return, you will have over $50,000 cash in 20 years versus a timeshare you hope will be worth $12,000. If you rent for the same price as MF's (or close) for the next 20 years you will be almost identical on annual vacation costs, but you will have $50,000 cash in the bank versus a week you hope you can sell for $12,000. That is $38,000 in lost assets with no benefit other than points being missed. You would still have stayed at Marriott's for 2 decades, but you would have no purchase outlay and no assessments. That is why owning timeshares is only a good deal if you buy them at a price close to what you can sell them for, and if the MF's are A LOT LOWER than the price you can rent at the same resort for IMO.

I hope that the Hurricane doesn't cause you or yours any problems.
 
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