Why is Vistana/MVWC Maintaining the Fiction that Certain Properties are Open?

[dioxide45]

I requested a partial rebate on MF from Harborside due to severely limited access. Vistana said people are still coming to Harborside. A letter from Vistana stated "While a resort may experience a temporary period of low occupancy or closure, the resort expenses do not go away. As a result, we are unable to refund or waive maintenance fees." Clearly the resort expenses are substantially reduced but Vistana will not admit this. Anyone else approached Vistana w. same request?

If there are reduced expenses, you will likely see them in your next MF bill. My guess is that there won't be any reduction. Sure labor and utility costs may be down, but a lot of other costs are fixed. Taxes don't decrease. Insurance still has to be paid. There will also be a likely increase in defaults from non payment of MFs, so that will come back on the rest of the paying owners to pay.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I requested a partial rebate on MF from Harborside due to severely limited access. Vistana said people are still coming to Harborside. A letter from Vistana stated "While a resort may experience a temporary period of low occupancy or closure, the resort expenses do not go away. As a result, we are unable to refund or waive maintenance fees." Clearly the resort expenses are substantially reduced but Vistana will not admit this. Anyone else approached Vistana w. same request?

There are still expenses for maintaining a resort. Hotels are suffering without guests. My emails from Hilton, Marriott, and IHG are indications that hotels want guests. I get offers for reduced point stays at all three. They are trying to keep their employees and are talking up their cleaning measures. It's rather sad, actually.

 

[tschwa2]

I requested a partial rebate on MF from Harborside due to severely limited access. Vistana said people are still coming to Harborside. A letter from Vistana stated "While a resort may experience a temporary period of low occupancy or closure, the resort expenses do not go away. As a result, we are unable to refund or waive maintenance fees." Clearly the resort expenses are substantially reduced but Vistana will not admit this. Anyone else approached Vistana w. same request?

If anything I think the MF's may go up substantially in the next year or two. Every time an owner defaults on their MF's, it gets split up to the remaining owners. There are a decent number who rely on renting out their unit(s) in order to cover MF's since that didn't happen this year and next year is questionable coupled with the general economic uncertainty facing so many, the very high MF's at harborside may be on the non-essential expenses for 2021.

 

[daviator]

If anything I think the MF's may go up substantially in the next year or two. Every time an owner defaults on their MF's, it gets split up to the remaining owners. There are a decent number who rely on renting out their unit(s) in order to cover MF's since that didn't happen this year and next year is questionable coupled with the general economic uncertainty facing so many, the very high MF's at harborside may be on the non-essential expenses for 2021.

Yes. Similar to what I posted in a different thread, some entitled owners want the benefits of ownership without the costs.

When you own a property, sometimes sh*t happens. Sometimes a tree falls and takes out your roof, sometimes a storm comes through and causes damage. Sometimes there’s a pandemic and nobody can come and use the property. In every one of those cases, the owners of the property take a hit. In this case, our “hit” is that we might not have been able to use some or all of our usage rights in 2020 (and if we were smart, we converted to Marriott points or banked our unused 2020 interests.). If you own a timeshare interest that you didn’t buy from the developer and you’re not eligible for the network benefits, you may just be SOL for this year.

Vistana didn’t cause the pandemic, they didn’t create the laws and policies barring travel, and in fact, I think they kept all of the resorts running minimally, during a very challenging time, so that owners who managed to get to their resorts could use them, subject to local legal restrictions.

I expect you are right the delinquencies will be up which will raise MFs for the rest of us. If people end up losing their timeshare interests through default, and the VOA forecloses on the unit, do owners get something back when those weeks are resold later?

 

[CPNY]

Yes. Similar to what I posted in a different thread, some entitled owners want the benefits of ownership without the costs.

When you own a property, sometimes sh*t happens. Sometimes a tree falls and takes out your roof, sometimes a storm comes through and causes damage. Sometimes there’s a pandemic and nobody can come and use the property. In every one of those cases, the owners of the property take a hit. In this case, our “hit” is that we might not have been able to use some or all of our usage rights in 2020 (and if we were smart, we converted to Marriott points or banked our unused 2020 interests.). If you own a timeshare interest that you didn’t buy from the developer and you’re not eligible for the network benefits, you may just be SOL for this year.

Vistana didn’t cause the pandemic, they didn’t create the laws and policies barring travel, and in fact, I think they kept all of the resorts running minimally, during a very challenging time, so that owners who managed to get to their resorts could use them, subject to local legal restrictions.

I expect you are right the delinquencies will be up which will raise MFs for the rest of us. If people end up losing their timeshare interests through default, and the VOA forecloses on the unit, do owners get something back when those weeks are resold later?

Or sometimes things happen and people don’t want to travel. Is that Vistana’s problem?. No

 

[cubigbird]

Yes. Similar to what I posted in a different thread, some entitled owners want the benefits of ownership without the costs.

When you own a property, sometimes sh*t happens. Sometimes a tree falls and takes out your roof, sometimes a storm comes through and causes damage. Sometimes there’s a pandemic and nobody can come and use the property. In every one of those cases, the owners of the property take a hit. In this case, our “hit” is that we might not have been able to use some or all of our usage rights in 2020 (and if we were smart, we converted to Marriott points or banked our unused 2020 interests.). If you own a timeshare interest that you didn’t buy from the developer and you’re not eligible for the network benefits, you may just be SOL for this year.

Vistana didn’t cause the pandemic, they didn’t create the laws and policies barring travel, and in fact, I think they kept all of the resorts running minimally, during a very challenging time, so that owners who managed to get to their resorts could use them, subject to local legal restrictions.

I expect you are right the delinquencies will be up which will raise MFs for the rest of us. If people end up losing their timeshare interests through default, and the VOA forecloses on the unit, do owners get something back when those weeks are resold later?

At what point do maintenance fees increase that even paying owners stop paying? In places like Hawaii, St John and Harborside, the MFs are already steep. The HOAs need to be careful of a downward snowball effect. Look at Orlando, where maintenance fees already exceed rental rates.

 

[tschwa2]

At what point do maintenance fees increase that even paying owners stop paying? In places like Hawaii, St John and Harborside, the MFs are already steep. The HOAs need to be careful of a downward snowball effect. Look at Orlando, where maintenance fees already exceed rental rates.

At Harborside MF's probably exceed rental rates for 50% of the year, 25% are break even and 25% or less is still lower than the rental rate for those unit size and high season dates. Unlike Hawaii where Vistana has a deed back no such thing for harborside so no option other than default if an owner can't pay. Less than 15% of units can be given away without paying $1000-$5000 to cover at least part of the transfer costs and/or the following years MF's.