Why is Marriott Vacations struggling?

[Eric B]

Yes another California resort would definitely be preferable to more Orlando inventory! (Even though I’m a lot closer to Florida!)

I'd prefer Belize or Roatan.

 

[Superchief]

Disney World is in Florida. Disney LAND is in Southern California.

The fact that both have an Orange County sure doesn't help! MVC doesn't really need anything more near Disneyworld with the World Center Palms already nearby, in addition to plenty hotels and resorts.

 

[jwalk03]

I'd prefer Belize or Roatan.

lol yes I’m sure those would be good too!!

Costa Rica seems to have been very successful and sold really well- so maybe that success will lead to similar resorts in the area as well. If they can find willing hotel operators to partner with.

 

[Superchief]

lol yes I’m sure those would be good too!!

Costa Rica seems to have been very successful and sold really well- so maybe that success will lead to similar resorts in the area as well. If they can find willing hotel operators to partner with.

I would be happy if a traditional MVC resort would be added in St. Petersburg Beach or Clearwater. Then I would like MVC to let me trade my Ocean Point week for one at that resort.

 

[jwalk03]

I would be happy if a traditional MVC resort would be added in St. Petersburg Beach or Clearwater. Then I would like MVC to let me trade my Ocean Point week for one at that resort.

Yes. Would also love to see a real panhandle beach resort as well. Panama City or Destin or Pensacola. Something.

 

[dioxide45]

MVC has mostly lost interest in traditional resort properties. They would rather build hotels in urban centers and charge beach front unit point levels. This gives them more points to sell for about the same buildout costs.

 

[Eric B]

MVC has mostly lost interest in traditional resort properties. They would rather build hotels in urban centers and charge beach front unit point levels. This gives them more points to sell for about the same buildout costs.

If they did as good a job as the bHC resorts in NYC and DC with access to owners lounges it wouldn't be a bad thing. As it is, I will just be happy I own in both systems and avoid the expensive hotel rooms.

 

[jwalk03]

MVC has mostly lost interest in traditional resort properties. They would rather build hotels in urban centers and charge beach front unit point levels. This gives them more points to sell for about the same buildout costs.

Unfortunately yeah I think you’re right. As long as they can just keep adding pulse properties to generate the needed points inventory they will.

Millennials seem to say that’s what they want; but may not realize those wants tend to change over time as they age and families grow!

 

[jmhpsu93]

Unfortunately yeah I think you’re right. As long as they can just keep adding pulse properties to generate the needed points inventory they will.

Millennials seem to say that’s what they want; but may not realize those wants tend to change over time as they age and families grow!

And the cost of those point nights is astronomical vs. cash rates at Pulse properties, though offseason mid-week at Mayflower is a good value. NYC is nuts.

 

[Ken555]

I would be happy if a traditional MVC resort would be added in St. Petersburg Beach or Clearwater. Then I would like MVC to let me trade my Ocean Point week for one at that resort.

Do you really think we need more resorts in Florida?


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[Dean]

Do you really think we need more resorts in Florida?


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I do personally. I think a high quality beach resort in the Tampa area AND the panhandle would be a huge success and in high demand even if both were available. The panhandle is seasonal but not as much as some of the other resorts are and the seasonality is opposite the current beach resorts in FL.

 

[jwalk03]

Do you really think we need more resorts in Florida?


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Beach resort are very high demand and Florida has so many beach areas to chose from that each have their own character.

Plus Florida beaches offer many more desirable weeks than other east coast beach options like Virginia or the Carolinas due to the weather.

 

[Ken555]

I do personally. I think a high quality beach resort in the Tampa area AND the panhandle would be a huge success and in high demand even if both were available. The panhandle is seasonal but not as much as some of the other resorts are and the seasonality is opposite the current beach resorts in FL.

Good point. Still, when I think of Florida I think of all the resorts in the Orlando area and then another bunch in the south. Many States don’t even have one resort! I dislike having so many in a concentrated region and would like to see more diversity, elsewhere in and out of the US.


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[Dean]

Good point. Still, when I think of Florida I think of all the resorts in the Orlando area and then another bunch in the south. Many States don’t even have one resort! I dislike having so many in a concentrated region and would like to see more diversity, elsewhere in and out of the US.


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That's not to say that there aren't other good locations. Ease of travel and seasonality is always going to be a major part of the equation. But so is infrastructure including activities, restaurants, etc. I think that's why HHI has been so successful, it has a great mix of beaches and other options. The panhandle offers that at least from PCB to Ft. Walton, Pensacola to Ft. Morgan and the Biloxi area as well. Each area along this long stretch has its advantages. Ignoring land prices and availability of a suitable parcel, 30A between PCB and Destin Or the Sandestin/Miramar Beach stretch probably holds the most promise. I can't speak much for the TX coast though it would offer a draw from a somewhat different group of people and be easier to get to for many of them for an area not currently served.

The Clearwater/St. Pete general area is going to have more infrastructure but be busier and likely have higher land prices. But that area would be even less seasonal than the Panhandle. I'm not sure there's a great GA location but there are several good ones with these factors in mind.

We would each have our preferences for all variable including location, unit types, amenities. I don't see the pulse options as a sustainable solution for growth, at least as the only option. Economics will always be a major part of the equation.

 

[Ken555]

That's not to say that there aren't other good locations. Ease of travel and seasonality is always going to be a major part of the equation. But so is infrastructure including activities, restaurants, etc. I think that's why HHI has been so successful, it has a great mix of beaches and other options. The panhandle offers that at least from PCB to Ft. Walton, Pensacola to Ft. Morgan and the Biloxi area as well. Each area along this long stretch has its advantages. Ignoring land prices and availability of a suitable parcel, 30A between PCB and Destin Or the Sandestin/Miramar Beach stretch probably holds the most promise. I can't speak much for the TX coast though it would offer a draw from a somewhat different group of people and be easier to get to for many of them for an area not currently served.

The Clearwater/St. Pete general area is going to have more infrastructure but be busier and likely have higher land prices. But that area would be even less seasonal than the Panhandle. I'm not sure there's a great GA location but there are several good ones with these factors in mind.

We would each have our preferences for all variable including location, unit types, amenities. I don't see the pulse options as a sustainable solution for growth, at least as the only option. Economics will always be a major part of the equation.

It’s obvious to any seasoned traveler and timeshare owner that Florida has a number of draws and reasons why resorts generally do well there. My point was that in my opinion there are enough resorts in that region and that I would rather see new development in different geographic areas. I want to spend time in new locations, not those I’ve been to many times.


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[dioxide45]

The problem with any new beach front resort is land acquisition costs. The run up in real estate, especially Florida, won't be very kind to the margins. They already show zero desire to complete existing resorts that have undeveloped land. I would also be perfectly fine with more resorts in Orlando.

 

[Dean]

It’s obvious to any seasoned traveler and timeshare owner that Florida has a number of draws and reasons why resorts generally do well there. My point was that in my opinion there are enough resorts in that region and that I would rather see new development in different geographic areas. I want to spend time in new locations, not those I’ve been to many times.


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When I look at this, like most things, it's not about what I'd prefer but what makes sense. Seasonality is a major issue with timeshares as are the alternatives in the area and transportation. That's part of the reason one can buy Orlando, Branson or LV very cheap compared to beach options. The areas I mentioned are popular places that are not well served by timeshares in general and definitely not by better timeshares, are easy for a lot of people to get to and are less seasonal than most. But they are not going to be for everyone for a number of reasons. I hope they learned their lesson on LE, Doral and NJ that trying to put an option in a fringe locations is not going to work well. I think eventually we will see such options as I do not see the Pulse approach as sustainable long term as the only option but it is more workable from a business standpoint with Abound than if selling weeks. We'll see what the next few years brings.

The problem with any new beach front resort is land acquisition costs. The run up in real estate, especially Florida, won't be very kind to the margins. They already show zero desire to complete existing resorts that have undeveloped land. I would also be perfectly fine with more resorts in Orlando.

No doubt economics will be a major part of any decision. One thing that DVC learned the hard way and I think, to a degree, so has MVC, that second tier options are a tough sell even in good general areas.

 

[Ken555]

When I look at this, like most things, it's not about what I'd prefer but what makes sense. Seasonality is a major issue with timeshares as are the alternatives in the area and transportation.

Obviously, the sweet spot is finding that intersection of good business choices and buyers desire. I don’t see additional timeshares in Florida, Nevada, Colorado, Hawaii or Mexico fitting that requirement. Sure, other beach areas that you mentioned may appeal to a good number of people so if I was providing business advice to the company I might agree with you...but I’m here representing myself and my own interests, and I want to go elsewhere.

I agree Pulse is a questionable product, though I do see the desire for many to visit urban locations, and I can see them spin that during sales to appeal to a certain customer. I enjoy staying at the Boston Custom House, for example.

Whenever this question has appeared on TUG ever since I joined long ago many seem to want new locations, new regions, more choices, etc. There was a time when that was part of the sales story for timeshares… but that was when new builds were common, so the belief that they would continue building was understandable - now, not so much.


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[Dean]

Obviously, the sweet spot is finding that intersection of good business choices and buyers desire. I don’t see additional timeshares in Florida, Nevada, Colorado, Hawaii or Mexico fitting that requirement. Sure, other beach areas that you mentioned may appeal to a good number of people so if I was providing business advice to the company I might agree with you...but I’m here representing myself and my own interests, and I want to go elsewhere.

I agree Pulse is a questionable product, though I do see the desire for many to visit urban locations, and I can see them spin that during sales to appeal to a certain customer. I enjoy staying at the Boston Custom House, for example.

Whenever this question has appeared on TUG ever since I joined long ago many seem to want new locations, new regions, more choices, etc. There was a time when that was part of the sales story for timeshares… but that was when new builds were common, so the belief that they would continue building was understandable - now, not so much.


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When this issue comes along I think often people list the places they want to visit once, not multiple times. I think the places a number of people would return to routinely is the sweet spot assuming economics are reasonable. That's not to say it can't be both. But it's not really about what you or I want but what the masses will pay for and use.

 

[Ken555]

When this issue comes along I think often people list the places they want to visit once, not multiple times. I think the places a number of people would return to routinely is the sweet spot assuming economics are reasonable. That's not to say it can't be both. But it's not really about what you or I want but what the masses will pay for and use.

Once again, I just have to say “obviously”. I find it very difficult to believe that Florida, Colorado, Hawaii, Nevada, and Mexico are the only locations successful timeshares can be located.


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[Dean]

Once again, I just have to say “obviously”. I find it very difficult to believe that Florida, Colorado, Hawaii, Nevada, and Mexico are the only locations successful timeshares can be located.


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I do think the areas of reasonable locations with less seasonality are limited. I did mention more FL but I discounted areas that can't be driven to in the US and where the weather makes them extremely seasonal, including SC. Personally I don't think MX or NV are reasonable options and really the only area on your list I would think fits my criteria is FL and possibly CO. I'm not sure HI or Aruba do either but YMMV.

 

[Ken555]

I do think the areas of reasonable locations with less seasonality are limited. I did mention more FL but I discounted areas that can't be driven to in the US and where the weather makes them extremely seasonal, including SC. Personally I don't think MX or NV are reasonable options and really the only area on your list I would think fits my criteria is FL and possibly CO. I'm not sure HI or Aruba do either but YMMV.

The “list” I mentioned are those areas which I believe have more than enough timeshares. This isn’t the list of where I think they should build.


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[Dean]

The “list” I mentioned are those areas which I believe have more than enough timeshares. This isn’t the list of where I think they should build.


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Noted. I think one of the issues I see with your FL aversion is that FL is a big state in terms of distances. I live in FL and I'm closer to the HHI resorts than I am any of the FL MVC Beach resorts and it's another 3 hrs further for the western part of the Panhandle.. The panhandle area and gulf coast in general are simply not well served with timeshares. There are few good options on the West Coast and the Panhandle. You've got Embarc/HGVC in Sandestin, Wyndham in PCB which is a great location but only OK resort and the Wyndham in Clearwater Beach. While there are an other options, I can't think of any others that are very good resorts AND in truly good locations. Wyndham has several in Destin but none measure up in terms of what we've been discussing. The other 2 best ones in II in the Panhandle are LE and Wyndham's Harborwalk which are not draws for most people. But no one items or even any combination will fit everyone's needs. I'd just love to get some new great resorts anywhere that people will use even if they aren't the ones I'd visit.

 

[RunCat]

Good point. Still, when I think of Florida I think of all the resorts in the Orlando area and then another bunch in the south. Many States don’t even have one resort! I dislike having so many in a concentrated region and would like to see more diversity, elsewhere in and out of the US.


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I like the idea of diversity; but it is somewhat in the abstract. To make a good resort location, it has to have a wealthy enough clientele to make a timeshare purchase worthwhile vs owning outright. It also would likely need to have access to nearly year-round desirable attractions and an airport. There is a reason that many of the timeshares congregate in specific places. For example, Grand Junction CO is an attractive place for wine tasting, mountain biking and summer fruit festivals. But it does not check some of the other boxes. And thus, I suspect a timeshare will never be built there.

 

[Ken555]

I like the idea of diversity; but it is somewhat in the abstract. To make a good resort location, it has to have a wealthy enough clientele to make a timeshare purchase worthwhile vs owning outright. It also would likely need to have access to nearly year-round desirable attractions and an airport. There is a reason that many of the timeshares congregate in specific places. For example, Grand Junction CO is an attractive place for wine tasting, mountain biking and summer fruit festivals. But it does not check some of the other boxes. And thus, I suspect a timeshare will never be built there.

There are many other successful resort locations which don’t have timeshares.


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